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Fingerless Gloves posted:Cant wait to see the comedy gold that pours out from our stellar satire creatives at Have I Got News For You, Spitting Image, Private Eye and so on spin this in fresh, hilarious ways! HIGNFY already on it! https://twitter.com/haveigotnews/status/1321805811006529541?s=21
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Oct 29, 2020 15:22
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Failed Imagineer posted:This seems to be indicative that by far the most productive avenue to pursue reform would be a leftist agitator party extracting concessions. Or at least that it's the only approach which has a recent successful model to look to. You'd first need Labour to be firmly in government, agitator party is meaningless when they are agitating against the opposition, particularly one that is more concerned over cushy jobs than winning the election (otherwise they would not purge the left but just marginalise it).
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Oct 29, 2020 15:22
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mcmagic posted:I feel bad for Corbyn. He deserved so much better than the way the last few years went. I'm partially glad he will be able to retire quietly and comfortably rather than winning the election and then getting assassinated by the CIA.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:22
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Roller Coast Guard posted:I'm partially glad he will be able to retire quietly and comfortably rather than winning the election and then getting assassinated by the CIA. Don't speak too soon.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:24
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Roller Coast Guard posted:I'm partially glad he will be able to retire quietly and comfortably rather than winning the election and then getting assassinated by the CIA. Nah it'd be a lawfare coup like in Brazil. Coincidentally something Biden is interested in reviving I guess to try and put Lula back in prison despite not leading the country
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Oct 29, 2020 15:24
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Private Speech posted:You'd first need Labour to be firmly in government, agitator party is meaningless when they are agitating against the opposition. How so? If it's clear they're bleeding electoral support to some new leftist party, surely the triangulators will do what comes naturally and triangulate towards them? All this requires is a bunch of melts wanting to keep their cushy elected position
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Oct 29, 2020 15:24
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Noxville posted:HIGNFY already on it! Haha, great comedy right here. See, the corbynites are making excuses! Speared by the wit of the media yet again eh Corbyn ha Sorry I'll stop this now Does Spitting Image have a Corbyn puppet?
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Oct 29, 2020 15:25
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Roller Coast Guard posted:I'm partially glad he will be able to retire quietly and comfortably rather than winning the election and then getting assassinated by the CIA. Hey our own domestic murderers, whether far right or secret police (what's the difference amirite?), would be able to handle that thank you.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:25
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Shameless political interference from LOTO's office into antisemitism disciplinary procedures, the very day the EHRC condemned that behaviour no less, antisemite Starmer must resign Seriouspost: I've done a lot of soul searching this year about whether to resign, there's a whole bunch of poo poo I very nearly resigned over. In the end, it was the very excellent work Momentum is doing atm that kept me in. Momentum is by far the biggest & most influential socialist organisation in the UK atm, & as of right now still requires Labour membership to join, so although we here itt all know that the Labour Party (& electoral politics more generally) are hosed beyond repair, staying a member in order support Momentum remains (imo) the best route to forming a strong, united movement, leading us eventually (hopefully soon) out of the Party & onto the streets. Also, a successful socialist movement still relies on an electoral presence, in combination with a wider street movement, & right this very minute we only have the former in the SCG. This is an immediate, half-baked opinion, & may change. Will do fairly loving quickly if a Momentum/SCG split-off happens.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:26
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jabby posted:Corbs is in the position of being a former leader with large media/social media pull. He might just have hit the point where he'd rather be outspoken and use that voice even if it means losing the whip. And if that's the case I don't blame him, even if he's expelled he's still an MP for the next four years. I certainly agree we could have and we squandered the chance because Jeremy is simply too loving decent. Which makes him a bit of a rube as far as politics go. Much as I don't love Leninism, at least Vladimir Illich would have seen the fight was necessary & go about it with all the dirty tricks he could to ensure it was won. And yes, I'd go further & say most of it is on the shoulders of Corbyn & his advisors. He thought he could work with Labour MPs, but those Labour MPs preferred to sink the party than let him succeed & were clear about their intentions from day 1. It was naive & hugely costly. But we'd have to win another election & I just do not see the Keith lead party not doing everything in their power to ensure the "mistake" of letting members votes count as much as MPs & councillors to stand going forward. If I'm wrong then fine, I'll hold my hands up, but for now, I think the Socialist Campaign Group would be stronger as a force outside the party than in it because a Labour government would not be possible without their support (or an unlikely massive Lab landslide). And as an external party that means making demands & otherwise not just being ignored as has happened in the past.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:26
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I'm out. Party simply won't allow what I believe in to be policy and will torpedo itself for a generation rather than implement a popular socialist manifesto
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Oct 29, 2020 15:27
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absolute loving poo poo
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Oct 29, 2020 15:27
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Failed Imagineer posted:How so? If it's clear they're bleeding electoral support to some new leftist party, surely the triangulators will do what comes naturally and triangulate towards them? All this requires is a bunch of melts wanting to keep their cushy elected position Humm maybe you're right, it's hard to say. But I still think they are more ideologically driven than say the US libs who were happy to triangulate left, and would not do so even if it meant losing an election.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:28
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If the SCG leaves the party they will just put some other useless poo poo in the seat and labour would either win it or it would go to the tories and the right would be happy with either outcome.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:28
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any vaguely socialist mp that doesn't leave in protest, any union that doesn't immediately cut all funding, any movement that doesn't step away can all suck my dick
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Oct 29, 2020 15:28
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I remember when HIGNFY used to be enjoyable, back in the 90s. Although I was very young and had no idea what half of it was about. All went downhill after Deayton left imo. Hislop in particular has become insufferable
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Oct 29, 2020 15:29
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Failed Imagineer posted:This seems to be indicative that by far the most productive avenue to pursue reform would be a leftist agitator party extracting concessions. Or at least that it's the only approach which has a recent successful model to look to. Probably. But I think it'll take two pressure groups, one outside Labour threatening to take their votes, and one inside Labour going "hey, those guy are going to take our votes unless we move left". Every party will have a left-leaning wing, and it's our advantage to make sure Labour's left is as lefty as possible. forkboy84 posted:Der Starmer is very much a pro-establishment, pro-status quo politician. I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils, it doesn't work, it just means moving right slowly as happened in the Blair years. Sure, he'd probably be a less awful PM than a Tory in the short-term but in the long-term it's disastrous for the left to just give in & support politicians who claim to be on the centre-left but will happily endorse privatising everything that moves including the NHS, but slightly slower than the Tories would. My issue with this approach is it seems either a bit privileged or a bit nihilistic. I do think New Labour did more good and saved more lives than the Tories would have. I think less poor people would die under a Starmer government than whoever the next Tory leader will be. Of course I'll be relatively fine under either government, but don't I owe it to the people who would otherwise die/be harmed not to just throw my hands up and say Starmer isn't good enough, therefore it's better we have the Tories in the short term even though some people will die? OwlFancier posted:If the SCG leaves the party they will just put some other useless poo poo in the seat and labour would either win it or it would go to the tories and the right would be happy with either outcome. Yup. I'd much rather a new left-wing party formed and tried to get elected rather than starting off by purging a bunch of left-wing MPs.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:31
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if you subscribe to the guardian, poo poo in your next copy and shove it in their mailbox along with a note cancelling your subscription
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Oct 29, 2020 15:32
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https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1321811397903306754?s=19 Cowardly little oval office can't even stand by his own purges.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:32
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OwlFancier posted:If the SCG leaves the party they will just put some other useless poo poo in the seat and labour would either win it or it would go to the tories and the right would be happy with either outcome. Unrelated addendum to my previous post, very tempted to write to the chair of my CLP saying exactly why I agree with Corbyn so the choice might be taken out of my hands
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Oct 29, 2020 15:33
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Convex posted:I remember when HIGNFY used to be enjoyable, back in the 90s. Although I was very young and had no idea what half of it was about. They used to be able to pull the "they're both as bad as each other" and it was mostly true. The problem has come with them continuing to do that for the past decade and transparently not wanting it to be untrue, even though it has been. They'll be bang into Starmer bringing back the end of history grey politics that they so enjoyed.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:34
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1321811397903306754?s=19 Labour hq can choose to withdraw the whip?
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Oct 29, 2020 15:36
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sebzilla posted:They probably won't but if there was ever a time for the SCG to walk, now would be it. if Corbyn gets actually expelled it might happen, I’d certainly expect Johnny Mac and Diane Abbott to leave in solidarity there will probably be an “investigation” and then Corbyn will quietly be given the whip back so it doesn’t happen Julio Cruz fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 15:36
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sebzilla posted:They probably won't but if there was ever a time for the SCG to walk, now would be it. It would be pretty bad strategy because obviously the coverage would be "anti-semites walk out in defense of anti-semitism" 24/7
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Oct 29, 2020 15:36
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Has big Len commented yet?
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Oct 29, 2020 15:37
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jabby posted:Probably. But I think it'll take two pressure groups, one outside Labour threatening to take their votes, and one inside Labour going "hey, those guy are going to take our votes unless we move left". Every party will have a left-leaning wing, and it's our advantage to make sure Labour's left is as lefty as possible. Which is a poo poo position to be in, since it's the left's possession of a functioning conscience that lets the libs keep holding us to loving ransom
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Oct 29, 2020 15:37
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https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1321820814870781960?s=19
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Oct 29, 2020 15:37
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It might be you, you don't know until it happens.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:38
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sebzilla posted:They used to be able to pull the "they're both as bad as each other" and it was mostly true. Yeah this feels like part of why I can't stand it these days. Should have ended it 10 years ago tbh.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:39
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Fingerless Gloves posted:Does Spitting Image have a Corbyn puppet? Of course. If it weren't for the 2019 election he'd be the main character, that was like the pitch for the show. They're probably psyched to get an opportunity to use it.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:40
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Borrovan posted:I endorse this post, it's always bugged me wrt voting non-Labour that if Labour don't get in then a bunch of people will die who would have lived, none of whom are me, so it's not really my choice to make This is just hostage taking though. I don't mean to be reductive, but as a thought experiment, what if the tories promised to kill 10,000 in their first year but Starmer promised to kill 9999?
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Oct 29, 2020 15:40
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Lord of the Llamas posted:It would be pretty bad strategy because obviously the coverage would be "anti-semites walk out in defense of anti-semitism" 24/7 The people who believe that are believing whatever they're told anyway. Can't win.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:41
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Borrovan posted:I endorse this post, it's always bugged me wrt voting non-Labour that if Labour don't get in then a bunch of people will die who would have lived, none of whom are me, so it's not really my choice to make how far do you let them get away with this, though? 'We'll only starve 80 people, they'll starve 100 you better vote for us!'? At what point do you flip over the table? e:f,b
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Oct 29, 2020 15:41
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Can't believe starmer is the reason Jimmy saville never got prosecuted
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Oct 29, 2020 15:42
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Brendan Rodgers posted:This is just hostage taking though. I don't mean to be reductive, but as a thought experiment, what if the tories promised to kill 10,000 in their first year but Starmer promised to kill 9999? Boris would mail out 9000 knives on the final day to try to technically meet the target. Safer option.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:42
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Borrovan posted:Which is a poo poo position to be in, since it's the left's possession of a functioning conscience that lets the libs keep holding us to loving ransom This sums it up for me. I'm upset about this because while I want to shout gently caress OFF BURN IT ALL and not vote next time round, that just means we get Tories again and a shitload more people suffer unnecessarily. The most annoying part is that voting Labour, especially if they win next time, vindicates Keith's bullshit and proves that no matter how badly they treat the left, Labour being the most lefty option still means we're trapped into voting for them.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:43
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Barry Foster posted:how far do you let them get away with this, though? 'We'll only starve 80 people, they'll starve 100 you better vote for us!'? What does "flipping over the table" look like, though? If your alternative to "vote for the lesser evil" is "do literally nothing", you're still better off voting for the lesser evil.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:43
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Borrovan posted:Unrelated addendum to my previous post, very tempted to write to the chair of my CLP saying exactly why I agree with Corbyn so the choice might be taken out of my hands Look forward to seeing your name in the next report!
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Oct 29, 2020 15:45
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I haven't checked in on it in a while, how's Brexit going? I've been looking at articles but can't really tell beyond "trade deals ending December".
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