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With the terrible basic real old Rat Ogres though yeesh
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Oct 19, 2020 12:51
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Deified Data posted:Wrapped up a Grey Seer Hell yeah, little rat with rat hat
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Oct 19, 2020 12:53
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Marmaduke! posted:With the terrible basic real old Rat Ogres though yeesh The good rat ogres are lost to time, much like the good Deffkopta How on earth do you spend money designing a whole new sculpt for something but just never find the time to put it on its own sprue? Do they think they'd sell that poorly?
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Oct 19, 2020 20:52
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A model designer’s wages for a month or two are a fraction of a mold’s cost.
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Oct 20, 2020 14:39
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MonsterEnvy posted:Skaven are getting a startset box for Warcry as well. These are the same gross-rear end rat ogres they've had since forever 
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Oct 20, 2020 17:53
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I kind of like the Rat Ogres, but I do wish they would get a updated sculpt. Lots of Skaven stuff needs updates.
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Oct 20, 2020 19:10
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Pretty interesting article in the latest WD about point values in AOS. They have this giant gently caress-off spreadsheet that assigns every aspect of a model a points value or a points value modifier, including abilities, keywords, base size etc. This vomits out a points cost for every unit. The faction's allegiance abilities then put additional modifiers on the cost of each unit in the faction, if they apply. This is then used as a baseline for points values, and then further modified by playtesting. After release, this can be further modified if the unit is still under or overperforming. This honestly seems like a pretty good approach, and it seems to be working out alright - AOS' balance is pretty decent, and is probably better than I remember any GW game being. Interestingly, the article does not mention taking subfaction abilities into account at all - Which makes sense, considering that you can choose multiple ones, and they all affect different units differently. It doesn't make sense to cost Horsethrowers assuming that they have the Legion of Horsethrowing subfaction ability that gives them +2 to throwing horses, because then they'd be awful in any other faction. This does also align with how a lot of factions have one or maybe two no-brainer choices for subfactions - particularly when the subfactions give a statline modifier or flat bonus to everything.
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Oct 21, 2020 18:42
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Geisladisk posted:Pretty interesting article in the latest WD about point values in AOS. That is awesome. I really like aos balance and from what I hear 9th is great too. I think they are really honing in on their rule writing abilities.
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Oct 24, 2020 02:16
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Got the Daughters of Khaine Start Collecting box for my birthday, and I'm looking forward to painting up some murder elves.
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Oct 24, 2020 22:16
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Funzo posted:Got the Daughters of Khaine Start Collecting box for my birthday, and I'm looking forward to painting up some murder elves. Cool! Welcome to the club 
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Oct 25, 2020 00:03
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So I'm still eyeing the Warcry game and seems like somewhat good timing with the new expansion about to drop via Catacombs. Is it still very much a beer and pretzel not so serious game? Have they balanced the initial warbands vs the expansion races they've added to include all the AOS factions? I'm basically down to Warcry, Necromunda or Adeptus Titanicus
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Oct 25, 2020 08:01
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Warcry is very beer and pretzels and honestly doesnt care about balance. Its hard to say if anything is balanced since its all going to boil down to what your dice hand is.
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Oct 25, 2020 13:20
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It is more balanced than Necromunda but less balanced than Titanicus. All three games are extremely beer and pretzels if you're playing with the right people. Warcry is the only GW game other than Underworlds I'd do as a pickup game nowadays, because the rules are fairly clear, the consequences aren't crazy if you lose (and you can advance on your campaign track), and if the other player is a total dipshit the game will be over in like 30 minutes. Edit: right now I play Splintered Fang and I love them.
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Oct 27, 2020 01:16
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A new event, possibly leading up to AoS 3rd Edition. Morathi's making her moves to become a god, looks like! First book covers Daughters of Khaine, Idoneth Deepkin, Stormcast Eternals, Cities of Sigmar and Slaves to Darkness.
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Oct 28, 2020 18:44
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Would fit with that accidental tweet that included Malekith's elves as an army. Maybe they'll be a half of the new edition starter box.
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Oct 28, 2020 19:34
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was not expecting Cities of Sigmar to get new stuff so that's a pleasant surprise.
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Oct 28, 2020 21:55
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I'm kinda curious what they're gonna do with Morathi and co. She's always been an awkward fit in Order, and she doesn't owe fealty to anyone but herself - not her kin, not Khaine, not Slaanesh, and certainly not Sigmar. She's the kind of character who's been on her bullshit long enough that she shouldn't have a single ally left in the universe, which is one of the downsides of carrying characters forward the way they did from WHFB (Morathi has been full of poo poo for aeons, and most of the major players including her own son know exactly how full of poo poo she is). She probably has a longer list of powerful enemies than any other character in the game. The logical way to end this storyline would be for her to get owned and killed off or something, but GW doesn't really do poo poo like that, especially with her having that big ole fancy model. Likewise, it'd be kinda cool if she took Slaanesh's portfolio and seat or something, but I can't imagine it happening from a rules perspective.
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Oct 28, 2020 23:34
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Whelp, I bit the bullet and pre-ordered Catacombs. I have been eyeing the Scions of the Flame since they were first teased and I really can't justify not grabbing the box Yes, a lot of people say the original starter gave more value No, that drat starter isn't anywhere to be found for even near MSRP Reading as much info as I can, and watching various youtube videos, seemed to confirm that the Later AoS armies added to the game are very much unbalanced against the original Warcry armies. In typically GW faction, they have done nothing to address this. I'll mainly play with friends so that shouldn't be a huge issue. Adeptus Titanicus is still on my "I absolutely must have this game at some point" list, but a $50 dollar army is a easier pill to swallow for new people.
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Oct 29, 2020 01:14
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Baku posted:I'm kinda curious what they're gonna do with Morathi and co. She's always been an awkward fit in Order, and she doesn't owe fealty to anyone but herself - not her kin, not Khaine, not Slaanesh, and certainly not Sigmar. She's the kind of character who's been on her bullshit long enough that she shouldn't have a single ally left in the universe, which is one of the downsides of carrying characters forward the way they did from WHFB (Morathi has been full of poo poo for aeons, and most of the major players including her own son know exactly how full of poo poo she is). She probably has a longer list of powerful enemies than any other character in the game. GW treats Order as the "etc" faction which is really odd, Destruction really should be for the factions who hold no allegiance but to themselves, but are willing to make temporary alliances if it gets them something. There doesn't seem any more thought to it that humans, dwarves and elves = Order. According to the new website, there will be rules to fielding both elf and snake morathi at the same time, which tells me some soul split shenanigans are happening. I'll be curious to see how that plays out.
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Oct 29, 2020 01:28
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Yeah it seems that order is just anyone who hasnt given in to chaos, is a savage orc/ogre/ goblin/ etc/ who worship some aspect of GorkaMorka, or literally the dead guys. I think being in Order doesn't mean you are automatically friends with everyone in Order. Just that you generally oppose the other factions which i think Morathi do. It also says that you can find followers of Morathi in Order cities as sort of pilgrims and such So its not like they arnt accepted.
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Oct 29, 2020 01:47
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Order means you care if the world burns I think.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:20
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Idoneth are actually the good guys in the setting.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:27
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Tiny Chalupa posted:Whelp, I bit the bullet and pre-ordered Catacombs. I have been eyeing the Scions of the Flame since they were first teased and I really can't justify not grabbing the box Three things severely exacerbate(d, in the first case) existing balance issues between the core Chaos warbands and the other AoS warbands: 0) Onslaught, the generic Double, as printed made high-value ranged characters insanely efficient. The errata changed/clarified it to work for short-range attacks only, but a lot of people formed impressions about the balance issue based on, e.g., the Stormcast ranger dudes at the moment of release and then didn't revise those impressions as the game developed. 1) With an AoS army to pull from, you can easily take multiples of whatever your warband has as its comparatively underpriced or overly dangerous option. In fact, this is sort of the default assumption: People who already play the AoS army take whatever they want. Someone who doesn't have that army will buy a box or two as a way of starting their warband. Meanwhile, most people with the core Chaos warbands, especially newer or more casual players, will go with what the box gives them: one or two of everything, including some models that are slightly overpriced models and others that are basically irrelevant. A Splintered Fang warband made entirely of Serpent Callers and Serpents will tend to perform much better than one right out of the box. Anyway, one rough game against someone who optimizes might sour a new player on the system completely. This is a serious issue in Necromunda, too, and it has the same solution: moderation. The upside to Warcry is that a devastating campaign battle loss, whether to an overpowered enemy warband or catastrophically bad luck, doesn't have a profound long-term impact on your warband's ability to keep up. 2) Many of the AoS-army warbands have tons and tons of fighter options. The Unmade have five fighter types including the leader; the Stormcast Warrior Chamber have 30. This is because GW wanted to accommodate every possible permutation of model that an AoS kit purchased for Warcry can build. I have no idea whether the Warrior Chamber is any good (I haven't looked at their rules at all), but I bet with 30 options it can cover a whole lot of bases, and it is more likely to contain incorrectly priced models. (0) has been dealt with. (1) is a social issue and comes down to communication with your opponent about your expectations. (2) just Is What It Is, although points updates in a year or two will solve a lot of the problem. At the end of the day, though, I love playing my straight-out-of-the-box Splintered Fang against my main opponent's sub-Lizardmen army special forces team, even though the Internet says my list is underpowered. Crazy generated scenarios, lucky ability dice, and player skill all factor into good games much more than whether your warband is 15% too expensive, imho.
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Oct 29, 2020 05:29
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Worth mentioning too: at least on paper, a lot of the AoS-army warbands seem doubleplus ungood to me. Don’t necessarily assume that if an AoS-army warband kicks your rear end, it’s because they’re comparatively overpowered, and don’t default to whining or condescending to your opponent just because they aren’t bringing a core warband. A lot of the AoS-army warbands have really lovely abilities and are priced inefficiently even compared to Untamed Beasts or whatever.
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Oct 29, 2020 05:38
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I'm hoping this focus on Morathi means we'll get to see Malekith in his AoS version, along with his supporters. I kind of liked how he became king of the Elves on End Times and I would like to see him again
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Oct 29, 2020 05:40
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I appreciate the responses. I did get the feeling that some of the moaning online about the newer AoS might be generic bitching from so so players. My reason to buy into that is...GW's propensity to ruin games with expansions lol. From Mordheim, to Battlefleet Gothic, to Warhammer Fantasy(gently caress I miss brick formations)...they certainly liked making newer releases OP vs past models to sell. IMHO. Maybe that's changed some, I've been away for some time. Adeptus titanicus gives me hope as most releases seem to get good reviews In terms of factions I'm picking up that my friends are interested in and/or I want to paint are: Khainites Scions Unmade Spire Tyrants Iron Golems Splintered Fang I really like the look of the Stormcast Eternal Warriors and Blades of Khorne Bloodbound. The externals I just love the models and can get by with 4 or 5 models in my Warband. I'll likely proxy them first Hopefully can rope some more people into joining them and keep it as a good beer and pretzel game on board game days.
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Oct 29, 2020 05:48
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Well, it sounds like with Warcry, people are complaining that the new models are crappy and the old ones are better. I love AT and I think it is the least flawed game that GW produces, although they have made mistakes. Re BFG specifically, I’ll point out that while Necrons were insane, the most egregious problems (nova cannons, hordes of attack craft, Eldar Corsairs) came from the core book, and it was the expansions that moderated them (changed from guess range, limited active squadrons to number of bays, and introduced Necrons, respectively). With all GW games, I find that I’m happiest concentrating on the hobby project that has me most excited, and then playing the poo poo out of whatever models I’ve painted. My success (in GW games, at least) correlates much more closely to my familiarity with my own rules than, say, the existence of a hard counter in some new expansion. Hard counters are huge bummers, but GW encourages a culture of narrative play where it’s not too shameful to say, “hey, can you please X or at least Y, so we both have a chance of doing well here?” And with Warcry specifically, the scenarios are so unpredictable that a hyper-optimized list might, under certain conditions, be completely incapable of actually winning the game. Plus, I paint so slowly that by the time I finish my most terrible overcosted premium models, their rules change and they become actually pretty good (see, e.g., my Sons of Horus, my Escher, etc). Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 06:03
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Harvey Mantaco posted:Order means you care if the world burns I think. Order doesn't mean you are a good guy. It means you don't want to be enslaved my Nagash forever as your soul slowly goes mad, be devoured by chaos, or have civilization be destroyed by orks. The only grand allegiance that is actually a single coherent alliance working together is Death.
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Oct 29, 2020 08:29
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Geisladisk posted:The only grand allegiance that is actually a single coherent alliance working together is Death. Even then flesh eater courts are a bit of a wild card.
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Oct 29, 2020 09:57
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Actually sitting and thinking about it, I don't know what I would want from an Age of Sigmar 3rd Edition. It'd be a chance to sort out the faction balance again, giving stuff a chance to get adjusted and giving the smaller ranges a chance to get new models, but I don't know if I'd update anything fundamental. I guess maybe make magic a little less binary, clean up some of the fiddlier rules? Since 40k is abandoning the old start collecting boxes for "Combat patrols", which are pricier but contain a more rounded army, maybe they might transition to a similar thing for Age of Sigmar too - although Battleline requirements are looser there than in 40k so they're not as much of a problem.
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Oct 29, 2020 12:07
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RagnarokAngel posted:Even then flesh eater courts are a bit of a wild card. This is one of my favorite bits. The idea of Arkhan the Black just sighing and shrugging when the uncontrollable spawn of Public Enemy Number One show up and help kill a bunch of Stormcast.
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Oct 29, 2020 12:45
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Arkhan the Black is the hardest working man in any version of Warhammer.
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Oct 29, 2020 13:11
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The Deleter posted:Actually sitting and thinking about it, I don't know what I would want from an Age of Sigmar 3rd Edition. It'd be a chance to sort out the faction balance again, giving stuff a chance to get adjusted and giving the smaller ranges a chance to get new models, but I don't know if I'd update anything fundamental. I guess maybe make magic a little less binary, clean up some of the fiddlier rules? 2nd Edition focused on consolidating a lot of disparate armies so (almost) every model had a home and a book with rules rather than the wild west of 1st ed. I'd like to see third ed bolster the factions they already have. We have so many factions who are built from like, 3 models with slightly different weapon loadouts but called different things. Make weaker units stronger, make new models and hell, remake some older ones if you're feeling generous. Many of them are old WHFB minis that look weird next to newer AOS minis. Lord_Hambrose posted:This is one of my favorite bits. The idea of Arkhan the Black just sighing and shrugging when the uncontrollable spawn of Public Enemy Number One show up and help kill a bunch of Stormcast. In Forbidden Power, Lady Olynder had the City of Sigmar that was on the stormvault containing Khatakros on the ropes until the FEC came over the hill, saw the ghosts as threats to these poor miserable peasants and ran roughshod over them. Lady Olynder used the commotion to get behind enemy lines and open the vault anyway but imagining the FEC going insane and eating ghosts was so drat funny to me.
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Oct 29, 2020 14:21
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I like the randomized turn order in AoS, it feels like it leads to a lot of strategic play. I also know that the randomized turn order is a big turn off for 40k players who aren't interested in jumping over. I wonder if AoS 3 will drop that? Something I like out of a 3rd edition is a Battletome refresh. I play Nighthaunt, and wouldn't mind a bit of a refresh to make the army more exciting. They'll probably also move to the 40k style of one purchase for physical + digital of some of their products. It's still weird that you get physical + digital codices in 40k, but not the core rulebook or the General's Handbook equivalent. They'll definitely replace Soul Wars and Tempest of Souls boxes. Slightly less excited about that, mostly because the Nighthaunt half of Tempest of Souls is as much as the stand alone box of Chainrasp. AoS 3rd edition will also probably adjust table sizes to match the 9th edition 40k table sizes. Not a lot I can think to do to the actual gameplay, but all that stuff on the edges of the game seem like it's a driving factor in a new edition.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:12
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The Deleter posted:A new event, possibly leading up to AoS 3rd Edition. Morathi's making her moves to become a god, looks like! First book covers Daughters of Khaine, Idoneth Deepkin, Stormcast Eternals, Cities of Sigmar and Slaves to Darkness. They're going to end times the setting and bring back the old world.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:24
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Exinos posted:They're going to end times the setting and bring back the old world. an unironically good idea considering warhammer total war 3 is just around the corner
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Oct 29, 2020 15:27
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Exinos posted:They're going to end times the setting and bring back the old world. Don't worry, they've already put noted racist and sexist Tony Cottrell in charge of bringing the bad game back.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:29
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RagnarokAngel posted:According to the new website, there will be rules to fielding both elf and snake morathi at the same time, which tells me some soul split shenanigans are happening. I'll be curious to see how that plays out.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:35
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The Deleter posted:Don't worry, they've already put noted racist and sexist Tony Cottrell in charge of bringing the bad game back. can't be worse than whoever thought the skaven doing the Holocaust during the end times was a good idea
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Oct 29, 2020 15:38
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Business Gorillas posted:can't be worse than whoever thought the skaven doing the Holocaust during the end times was a good idea I would posit that these are both Bad.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:59
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