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Craptacular! posted:Do the wealthy lawyers for the Democrats not know how the Supremes work The wealthy lawyers for the Democrats know exactly where their class interests lie, which is why a reactionary court does not scare them.
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Oct 28, 2020 09:17
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Kazak_Hstan posted:The wealthy lawyers for the Democrats know exactly where their class interests lie, which is why a reactionary court does not scare them. Federal judges are always going to be drawn from elites on some level. Unless we choose to hold open elections for them, which is an atrocious idea.
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Oct 28, 2020 12:11
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Craptacular! posted:I don't want to live in a dysfunctional society because my opponents are better at politics than I am, but at the same I have to wonder why the Republicans have the Federalist and the Democrats who have known about it's existence for over 30 years have ?????? Not to be too glib but the answer to this question is the same as the answer to why the GOP has embraced its energetic far right while the democrats have not: the rightwing belief systems fit very well into the party's core values (more money for us: gently caress you), while the same isn't true of their counterparts on the left.
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Oct 28, 2020 13:09
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Proust Malone posted:Maybe one side was just more motivated after having been burned by Brown and Roe and Casey and Miranda and Loving and Gideon Yup it's the Warren court that made them realize they needed to capture the judiciary. poo poo I saw a guy on twitter go mask off and actually admit it - usually they just whine about Bork.
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Oct 28, 2020 13:49
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myron cope posted:The way I see it the Democrats have no choice but to pack the courts (if they win next week). Just by talking about it, if the Republicans regain (or god forbid: keep) power they will do it themselves, as punishment. Schumer is at least making noise about it but Feinstein is a piece of poo poo who wants nothing to do with it and wants to bring back poo poo like blue slips. Her behavior during the ACAB hearings are reason enough to strip her of any power, seniority be damned, if the Dems retake the Senate. I have no doubt that she'll threaten to caucus with Republicans if her position is threatened and there's a 50/50 or even 51/49 split.
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Oct 28, 2020 14:43
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Evil Fluffy posted:Schumer is at least making noise about it but Feinstein is a piece of poo poo who wants nothing to do with it and wants to bring back poo poo like blue slips. Her behavior during the ACAB hearings are reason enough to strip her of any power, seniority be damned, if the Dems retake the Senate. I have no doubt that she'll threaten to caucus with Republicans if her position is threatened and there's a 50/50 or even 51/49 split. It was quite telling that not a single Democrat on the committee would defend her when asked - only the Republican members would. I think she's done.
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Oct 28, 2020 14:54
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She isn't done, the entire party worked overtime to crush her somewhat less right-wing Democratic opponent in the 2018 senate runoff. The only way she'll be done is if she literally dies in office somewhere around 2030. She's there for the same reason Lieberman is: to publicly "sabotage" the Democrats and ensure right-wing dominance while the rest of the leadership says "oh gee we'd really love to do something but we just can't control that maverick Dianne Feinstein" *champagne glasses clink with corporate lobbyists backing future Chief Justice Ivanka Trump*
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Oct 28, 2020 16:33
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VitalSigns posted:She isn't done, the entire party worked overtime to crush her somewhat less right-wing Democratic opponent in the 2018 senate runoff. The only way she'll be done is if she literally dies in office somewhere around 2030. weird that this keeps happening despite california having open primaries like that
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Oct 28, 2020 16:42
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VitalSigns posted:She isn't done, the entire party worked overtime to crush her somewhat less right-wing Democratic opponent in the 2018 senate runoff. The only way she'll be done is if she literally dies in office somewhere around 2030. Lieberman just wants to continue the family business of being a net loss for humanity.
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Oct 28, 2020 16:46
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VitalSigns posted:.. Chief Justice Ivanka Trump* I didn't know an infectious disease specialist could become a SC justice....
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Oct 28, 2020 17:22
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Tender Bender posted:Not to be too glib but the answer to this question is the same as the answer to why the GOP has embraced its energetic far right while the democrats have not: the rightwing belief systems fit very well into the party's core values (more money for us: gently caress you), while the same isn't true of their counterparts on the left. The majority of cases that come before the court that drive people to vote for Democrats aren't typically class war issues, they're culture war issues. However, I suppose the other posters here are right that people in the legal field tend to more often than not side with the liberal view on gun control and abortion rights, to such an extent that the Republicans have to be embittered and careful not to create another O'Connor while the Democrats don't need a a whole bench of judges pre-screened to deliver the results they want on issues. VitalSigns posted:She isn't done, the entire party worked overtime to crush her somewhat less right-wing Democratic opponent in the 2018 senate runoff. The only way she'll be done is if she literally dies in office somewhere around 2030. DiFi is at an age that she shouldn't be worried about an election four years from now, but if she truly believes she is half-Lich then the threat of Newsom running against her with Pelosi's support/fundraising would put some fear into her. Gavin always wanted the White House, but Senate terms are longer and unlimited, which is great for a guy who won't even be 60 in four years. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 17:51
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FAUXTON posted:weird that this keeps happening despite california having open primaries like that feinstein is deeply embedded into the party leadership and they would pull out all the stops to bury a progressive challenger, it would make Bernie's runs look fair and balanced. also due to california's jungle primary you'd have to win against her in the general, with no national-level democratic funding and while being blackballed by all the fundraising orgs
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Oct 28, 2020 18:01
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Deteriorata posted:Oh, absolutely. That's an important tradition. All justices of the Supreme Court dieafter every election so that they new President can appoint people he likes.
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Oct 28, 2020 18:11
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Also, I guess since McCain is dead we now get to focus on an old Democrat who clings to their chair instead. Wow. The thing about Feinstein though is you can reliably guess which way she's going to go, even though you don't like it. McCain made a gimmick out of declaring anything to be on the table and then making you tune in to find out which 'friend' gets ratfucked today.
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Oct 28, 2020 18:13
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After watching Feinstein's antics and zero fight on the Barrett nomination, lmao at the idea of the democrats court packing or doing anything at all if they take the senate.
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Oct 28, 2020 18:23
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Craptacular! posted:The majority of cases that come before the court that drive people to vote for Democrats aren't typically class war issues, they're culture war issues. Huh, it’s like both parties are on the same side of the class war.
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Oct 28, 2020 18:32
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mila kunis posted:After watching Feinstein's antics and zero fight on the Barrett nomination, lmao at the idea of the democrats court packing or doing anything at all if they take the senate. This is why we were saying they needed 52+ seats, Feinstein won't be relevant. Every other decorum-minded Senator, and Biden have all pretty much warned the GOP that court packing is coming. They did not have to do that, they could have easily just said nothing and taken the safe win in November, or just outright opposed it for more independent votes.
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Oct 28, 2020 18:43
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Craptacular! posted:Also, I guess since McCain is dead we now get to focus on an old Democrat who clings to their chair instead. Wow. You could reliably guess what McCain was going to do too. If you guessed that 100% of the time he would say "I'm deeply concerned by what we're voting for here today" and then vote for it anyway, you would be wrong exactly once in his whole career: Obamacare skinny repeal. And even then he still voted for way more evil ACA repeal bills, he just opposed skinny repeal because it was an obvious trap to get a bill senators didn't want to vote for passed into law anyway.
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Oct 28, 2020 18:50
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McCain is a pretty standard party line Republican by Reagan's standards. But that means he looks like a "maverick" using Mitch McConnell's ridiculous standards. He didn't change his loyalty to American Conservatism at all. He was a Reagan man all the way to the end. Rather American Conservatives became more extreme and more lock-step over time. In an era when accepting Trump-level corruption is the norm in the GOP, only toleration Iran-Contra level corruption seems reasonable.
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Oct 28, 2020 19:17
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Who the hell is this senator only voting with their party 25% of the time?
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Oct 28, 2020 19:32
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McCain was a standard Republican who could be pretty petty when he was offended. His Mavericky period in the early aughts was primarily born out of the poo poo Bush put him through during the 2000 primary. As soon as he wanted to try again for president in 2008, he kissed every establishment GOP ring required. His vote against the Obamacare repeal could also be viewed as a finger to both McConnell (for the process) and Trump (for the insults from 2015 on).
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Oct 28, 2020 19:40
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Flappy Bert posted:Who the hell is this senator only voting with their party 25% of the time? Chart seems to aggregate both parties so probably Lieberman or Manchin or someone along those lines
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Oct 28, 2020 19:40
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haveblue posted:Chart seems to aggregate both parties so probably Lieberman or Manchin or someone along those lines My guess was going to be Dennis DeConcini, a conservative Democrat from Arizona who voted with the Republicans a lot, but he left the Senate in 1995, so probably not him. My next guess was going to be Howell Heflin or Richard Shelby, two Dixiecrats from Alabama, but Heflin didn't run for reelection in 1996, and Shelby became a Republican in 1995.
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Oct 28, 2020 19:54
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Craptacular! posted:Also, I guess since McCain is dead we now get to focus on an old Democrat who clings to their chair instead. Wow. Just lol if you think people haven't been disgusted with Feinstein since long before McCain died. This is the woman who vigorously defended flying the Confederate flag as the mayor of San Francisco.
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Oct 28, 2020 23:30
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FAUXTON posted:weird that this keeps happening despite california having open primaries like that I mean isn't that exactly what open primaries are intended to do? They prop up candidates that appeal to both major parties but are loved by neither. Open primaries are a terrible system, particularly since we only implement them in liberal states.
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Oct 29, 2020 15:11
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Florida has jungle primaries on the ballot and will probably pass because people are idiots and vote yes on every dumb thing. In 2018 the gubernatorial race would have been between two republicans because there was a three way split of dem votes vs a two way split in the rep primary. DeSantis and Putnam both had more votes than Gillum and would have been the only options on the general ballot under the proposed new scheme.
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Oct 29, 2020 16:23
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Kaal posted:I mean isn't that exactly what open primaries are intended to do? They prop up candidates that appeal to both major parties but are loved by neither. Open primaries are a terrible system, particularly since we only implement them in liberal states. louisiana but it's one of those things where economic populism should by all rights run the table because of that universal appeal
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Oct 29, 2020 16:35
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Open primaries defeat the purpose of a primary system to begin with. Primaries are parties picking their candidates for the general election ffs.
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Oct 30, 2020 00:44
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Evil Fluffy posted:Open primaries defeat the purpose of a primary system to begin with. Primaries are parties picking their candidates for the general election ffs. Counterargument: anything that blocks people from voting for their chosen candidates is bad See, e.g., New York's closed primaries and registration requirements blocking Bernie supporters from voting for him. "open" primaries and "jungle" primaries are not the same thing. The solution to the problems y'all are raising is ranked choice voting.
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Oct 30, 2020 14:09
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Evil Fluffy posted:Open primaries defeat the purpose of a primary system to begin with. Primaries are parties picking their candidates for the general election ffs. The obvious counterargument is why should states be running elections for private organizations?
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Oct 30, 2020 14:18
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Ahh yes, jungle primaries, the great system where the winner of the general election is whichever party went into the "primary" with fewer candidates
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Oct 30, 2020 14:19
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Open lists with a simple first past the post system is awful. Why would you do that? It doesn't even really help the parties as it makes candidates much more vulnerable to non official challenges.
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Oct 30, 2020 14:29
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MrNemo posted:Open lists with a simple first past the post system is awful. Why would you do that? It doesn't even really help the parties as it makes candidates much more vulnerable to non official challenges. Because it disenfranchises and discourages voters, and the people currently in charge do not actually want people to vote.
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Oct 30, 2020 14:30
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Trump just tweeting out the Supreme Court has to steal the election for him lol
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Oct 30, 2020 14:34
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MrNemo posted:Open lists with a simple first past the post system is awful. Why would you do that? It doesn't even really help the parties as it makes candidates much more vulnerable to non official challenges. The idea behind the "jungle primary" seems to have been Republicans in California trying to break Democratic dominance of the state by forcing them to compete with more fringe candidates. It didn't work because the Republicans have even more fringe whacko candidates.
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Oct 30, 2020 14:36
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Groovelord Neato posted:Trump just tweeting out the Supreme Court has to steal the election for him lol For reference: 
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Oct 30, 2020 15:09
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Jungle primaries make a certain amount of sense in states where one party is politically dominant, giving the general run of voter more power as compared to everything being locked up by the party base long before the election. They are just asinine in even remotely competitive states tho.
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Oct 30, 2020 15:12
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Father Wendigo posted:For reference: Talk about an own-goal
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Oct 30, 2020 15:12
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Ranked choice voting is definitely the way forward for modern election reform. It allows people to clearly indicate their political support without being encouraged to participate in "tactical voting".whydirt posted:The obvious counterargument is why should states be running elections for private organizations? Public administration of party primaries is the result of 100 years of progressive reform. Peeling that back, whether in the form of open primaries or jungle elections, is a mistake and a return to the old days of party bosses choosing candidates for the voters. https://ivn.us/2015/07/30/story-behind-pay-party-primaries Kaal fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Oct 30, 2020 |
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Oct 30, 2020 15:46
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Kaal posted:Ranked choice voting is definitely the way forward for modern election reform. It allows people to clearly indicate their political support without being encouraged to participate in "tactical voting". Yes the old days of *checks watch* two thousand and twenty
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Oct 30, 2020 15:59
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