|
sunken fleet posted:Not looking for spoilers, but does the game ever explain why the PC survives laying down / breaking various edicts? As we get deeper into the game I'm starting to feel like that is our most important 'protagonist power' and, up until now at least, there doesn't seem to be explanation except 'well, you're the player'. The most explanation you get has already been given, more or less. Aside from "you're the player", the big implication about Archons is that, while they become demigods through belief, they all start with some sort of power or potential that is then amplified by people's beliefs. Now, whether that initial power is natural from birth (as is the case with at least one Archon in this game), or acquired through later exposure to magic (a more likely scenario for at least one other Archon in this game) seems to not especially matter. So, to put it succinctly, either the Fatebinder was naturally adept at absorbing those magical energies, or else the circumstances surrounding all this caused him to, in essence, "mutate", rather than die. No concrete answer is given beyond these possibilities.
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 01:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 19:00 |
|
|
We are the Archon of Edicts, apparently.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 03:21
|
|
|
I definitely also thought the 'if you strike the chieftain, don't miss' was paraphrasing the Omar Little quote from The Wire
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 04:42
|
|
|
EclecticTastes posted:The most explanation you get has already been given, more or less. Aside from "you're the player", the big implication about Archons is that, while they become demigods through belief, they all start with some sort of power or potential that is then amplified by people's beliefs. Now, whether that initial power is natural from birth (as is the case with at least one Archon in this game), or acquired through later exposure to magic (a more likely scenario for at least one other Archon in this game) seems to not especially matter. So, to put it succinctly, either the Fatebinder was naturally adept at absorbing those magical energies, or else the circumstances surrounding all this caused him to, in essence, "mutate", rather than die. No concrete answer is given beyond these possibilities. it is also strongly suggested that usually, your reward for pronouncing an edict is getting thrown into a plausibly deniable meat grinder per the will of Kyros much like we were
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 05:50
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:it is also strongly suggested that usually, your reward for pronouncing an edict is getting thrown into a plausibly deniable meat grinder per the will of Kyros There's that, too. Or they're just killed by Bleden Mark.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 06:47
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:it is also strongly suggested that usually, your reward for pronouncing an edict is getting thrown into a plausibly deniable meat grinder per the will of Kyros makes sense, really. given belief and its relation to power in the setting, people might get a bit confused when someone comes along and proclaims the edict of [devastation_name_here]. Kyros wants to keep much of their information a secret, so they send someone else to proclaim edicts. Practical, but the problem of sending someone else to the far ends of the empire to proclaim said edicts is that the magic is first associated with the proclaimer, not Kyros. (Sure Kyros made the edict but who are people going to think of first; the person who made it on the other end of the continent, or the one who cast it and might do it again elsewhere before they leave the country?) So, rather than risk Archons popping up even more than they already (relatively) do, Kyros can just send them off on a suicide mission or apply Bleden Mark as deemed appropriate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 07:22
|
|
|
Or any other army of hers. The whole war wasn't fought with just the Chorus and the Disfavoured. While those two armies are currently neutralised pending treason inquiries, they are not the totality of Kyros's armies. Sending in a third force to clean up the mess made by the other two is entirely within Kyros's options.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 09:13
|
|
|
Hopefully that third force is more competent than the Disfavoured and Scarlet Chorus.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 12:15
|
|
|
"More competent than the arrogant racists and howling mob" is a pretty low bar to clear. By design, however, a whole lot of the power structure under Kyros is going to trip over it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 17:03
|
|
|
MechaCrash posted:"More competent than the arrogant racists and howling mob" is a pretty low bar to clear. yeah i bet we'd get something like the Archon of Skeletons showing up with army of undead who just eat people or something equally useless in the current context.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 17:51
|
|
|
Breaking the Edict while standing inside a Spire also seems like it might be a factor, since Spires spin waves of magical energy and breaking an Edict is nothing if not a massive release of magical energy. But I also noticed something else, which is that when we get more information, it's about how people who pronounce and break Edicts end up dying within a decade, which implies that a lot of times there's a time delay.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 19:19
|
|
|
I don't think that the way it works is that it sets a ticking time bomb, and when time is up you fall over dead, no matter what. The way it's worded makes it sound more like it gives you a wasting disease. Sure, you're fine for now, but it's more raw power than you're meant to be able to handle, and you gradually break down under the strain.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 20:20
|
|
|
MechaCrash posted:I don't think that the way it works is that it sets a ticking time bomb, and when time is up you fall over dead, no matter what. The way it's worded makes it sound more like it gives you a wasting disease. Sure, you're fine for now, but it's more raw power than you're meant to be able to handle, and you gradually break down under the strain. Attention: If you or a loved one was diagnosed with mesodeikoma, you may be entitled to financial compensation. Mesodeikoma is a rare cancer linked to Edict exposure. Exposure to Edicts in the army, forges, agriculture, dirt farming, or legal industries may have put you at risk. Please, don't wait. Call for a free legal consultation & information packet. Call 1-800-BLE-DENM
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 20:32
|
|
|
The archon of dirt farming doesn't sound very glamorous. But it probably makes you popular.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 20:47
|
|
|
If the Kyrosian party wasn't so eager to shovel rings into the coffers of Edict-martin and Edictheon for endless foreverwars, we could really see some at-home life sigil investment.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 21:24
|
|
|
MechaCrash posted:I don't think that the way it works is that it sets a ticking time bomb, and when time is up you fall over dead, no matter what. The way it's worded makes it sound more like it gives you a wasting disease. Sure, you're fine for now, but it's more raw power than you're meant to be able to handle, and you gradually break down under the strain. Differing reading: nothing about Edict breaking gives you a wasting disease, it just puts you on a to do list. Just feels like the previous edict breakers die of loose end disease and inconvenience to the Kyros.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 22:04
|
|
|
MechaCrash posted:I don't think that the way it works is that it sets a ticking time bomb, and when time is up you fall over dead, no matter what. The way it's worded makes it sound more like it gives you a wasting disease. Sure, you're fine for now, but it's more raw power than you're meant to be able to handle, and you gradually break down under the strain. I mean, it's clear that there's an analogy going on here about scapegoating and the jealous nature of tyranny, but the actual mechanics seem a little weirder.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 22:20
|
|
|
KirbyKhan posted:Differing reading: nothing about Edict breaking gives you a wasting disease, it just puts you on a to do list. Just feels like the previous edict breakers die of loose end disease and inconvenience to the Kyros. That's my call.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 22:51
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:Yeah, that was what I was trying to say, sorry. That sometimes it kills instantly - and that's more likely the more you read Edicts - but that usually it just damages you in some way that's hard to recover from, and if you're in a position to be reading Edicts, you're probably in pretty high pressure situations anyway. The reason you'd be almost certain to die after reading two is that the damage would, of course, be cumulative, so instead of a potential recovery you're doing the same damage to yourself. Keep in mind what the Edicts are. There is no "Edict of Produce" to supply the empire with food or an "Edict of Good Weather", these are all terrible destructive things akin to purges. The relatively innocent person forced to order a purge is not going to be the same after that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 22:59
|
|
|
My interpretation of the whole "what happens to people after they read/break Edicts" thing is that it's variable. Some of them die due to the magical backlash, either immediately (as Fatebinder Calio implies is possible) or gradually. Others are quietly eliminated by Bleden Mark or another agent of Kyros. I don't think it's entirely one cause or the other.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2020 23:03
|
|
|
I suspect that catching a case of Magic Cancer is the typical method of people who read Edicts shuffling off this mortal coil, and the numbers are high enough that you can use that to hide the people that got a case of Knife In The Back among them. It is also possible that an unplanned late night meeting with Bleden Mark is also the reason for the majority and Magic Cancer the minority, but the official story is probably about Edicts being hard on the body, and as usual, "what is the truth" is far less important than The Story According To Kyros. Assuming Kyros can be bothered to tell anybody about what happens to the Fatebinders who actually push the button for the magic nukes, anyway.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 04:55
|
|
|
I found a page full of Tyranny-themed posters. Also, absolutely loving this LP and the discussion about the themes and subtext.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 05:51
|
|
|
GrayDorian posted:I definitely also thought the 'if you strike the chieftain, don't miss' was paraphrasing the Omar Little quote from The Wire In fairness how many people have seen endlessly critically acclaimed cultural touchstone The Wire vs how many have read Ralph Waldo Emerson, which doesn't even sound like a real guy
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 06:56
|
|
|
So, Fatebinder Myothis, the one you never meet but exchange several missives with. She seems both very knowledgeable and willing to share accurate information. She does not appear to have an agenda, unlike other characters. What she writes seems careless - she does not know us, yet she shares so much. Any missive can be intercepted by Kyros' forces, and if she were found to provide help and advice to a known traitor to the regime, her cozy retirement would turn ugly real soon. So why is she helping the PC? Now, it could be lazy writing on part of the writers, same way as Rhogalus asking if we saved the Silent Archive and expecting us to write back and admit treason (why not ask us in person?) On my first run, I thought that Myothis was either Kyros himself, or a mouthpiece for her. From conversations at Tunon's Court, I got the impression that Kyros' empire is much looser than it appears at first glance, with regional governors being the real power, and Kyros is a figurehead (thinking Russia in the 90's - sure, the President has the nukes, but each regional governor runs their part of the country how they want whilst paying lip service to the capital). Perhaps Kyros was not happy with any of the Archons in the Tiers, and was grooming the PC to get rid of them and become the local head honcho once the conquest is over. He could not move directly so as not to upset other Archons in her empire, but these missives are essentially telling a loyalist PC that they have his blessing for their actions. Now, the run happened after the patch which allowed the game to support this narrative, so I felt validated in my thinking, but now I wonder if there's something I've missed here. Any thoughts?
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 12:39
|
|
|
12Apr1961 posted:So, Fatebinder Myothis, the one you never meet but exchange several missives with. I'd say you're probably overestimating the likelihood of missives being intercepted, it's not like anyone knows who a given bird is coming from or headed to, and shooting down random messenger birds is as likely to get you into a lethal amount of trouble, youself, as it is to reveal something you could use to cause such trouble for others. Given the way the Fatebinder is introduced to Myothis (through Rhogalus, a fellow Fatebinder), I'd say it's unlikely that she's an alias for Kyros. Had she contacted the Fatebinder on her own, out of the blue, it would seem more suspect. Not to mention, for reasons I'll get into later, Kyros actively helping the Fatebinder understand their powers and potential is the last thing she wants to do, regardless of her goals in the Tiers regarding the Archons. Myothis is just an old scholar who's helping because she's interested in these clearly historic events, and it's not like she's actually taking much risk. Even if she is caught, Kyros' Peace is set up so that she (and, obviously, the Fatebinder) would be the only one punished (as opposed to her family being punished alongside her), and she's clearly lived a long and full enough life that she considers that risk worth it (and, as she implies, she's apparently guilty of several other violations of the law, anyway, so spreading a little potentially forbidden knowledge is just another offense to add to the pile).
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 21:53
|
|
|
If there's a part of tyranny Tyranny doesn't seem to have it's mass spying and policing. Yet, something might still pop up. Of course snitching will be around and fatebinders will knock heads off for shittalking, but there doesn't seem to be a massive voyeur state around.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 22:12
|
|
|
There is Bleden Mark, who is watching you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 22:39
|
|
|
We are literally playing as a member of the federal police (I'd say secret police, but there's nothing secret about it.)
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 22:52
|
|
|
We are in a frontier area with the only subjects of Kyros being military or their support people. I'm sure in the heartlands of the empire, the secret police are way more prominent and 2 out of 3 people are informants.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 22:59
|
|
|
Radio Free Kobold posted:There is Bleden Mark, who is watching you. He's just one guy, I don't doubt he has plenty of helpers, including shadows, but he isn't watching every word being written. wiegieman posted:We are literally playing as a member of the federal police (I'd say secret police, but there's nothing secret about it.) Secret police is never secret, the secret part is in how they get you and what they do to you and often the answer is they grab more or less at prejudice and random in order to be inescapable so that even the best appearance of innocence, being actually innocent, isn't a protection.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 23:27
|
|
|
Personally I find tunon liking our judgments funnier than mark is watching. Because the obvious explanation there is we fill out and submit paperwork on all this nonsense and I really wish we could read some of that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 23:28
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:Personally I find tunon liking our judgments funnier than mark is watching. Because the obvious explanation there is we fill out and submit paperwork on all this nonsense and I really wish we could read some of that. This is exactly what Ive always thought myself.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 23:47
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:Personally I find tunon liking our judgments funnier than mark is watching. Because the obvious explanation there is we fill out and submit paperwork on all this nonsense and I really wish we could read some of that. It's mentioned by the other Fatebinders that Tunon has eyes and ears besides Bleden Mark that report to him on stuff like your judgments. Also, most of the judgments that affect Tunon's Favor/Wrath are things that ripple through an entire community, which he'll obviously hear about eventually. I dont know posted:We are in a frontier area with the only subjects of Kyros being military or their support people. I'm sure in the heartlands of the empire, the secret police are way more prominent and 2 out of 3 people are informants. The implication is more that citizens are encouraged to snitch on each other rather than there being a dedicated "secret police".
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 00:50
|
|
|
12Apr1961 posted:So, Fatebinder Myothis, the one you never meet but exchange several missives with. Uh, what? Are you talking about someone other than the Fatebinder here? They are absolutely not a "known traitor." Even on the Anarchist path, Tunon lets you keep your spires and wander around Fatebinding whoever you come across, though he is less than jazzed about your decision at Vendrien's Well. You'd have to gently caress up way harder than Cleo J has done so far to get that kind of label, and if you did, you'd either wake up before Tunon in chains or to Bleden Mark slitting your throat. Ashe and Nerat are still out there loving up all the poo poo, and Tunon hasn't done anything to revoke their mandate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 03:08
|
|
|
EclecticTastes posted:It's mentioned by the other Fatebinders that Tunon has eyes and ears besides Bleden Mark that report to him on stuff like your judgments. Also, most of the judgments that affect Tunon's Favor/Wrath are things that ripple through an entire community, which he'll obviously hear about eventually. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 03:34
|
|
|
I'm not too worried about missives being intercepted. I'd be worried about them being stored (archived, as the game puts it) and found later. Say, the PC has a falling out with Rhogalus later on. Suddenly, Rhogalus whips up a personal letter from the PC where they readily admit to preserving the Silent Archive, and defying the will of Kyros. Treason charges follow swiftly. Or consider Myothis telling the story of a person putting up a shrine near a Spire and talking about Kyros being there in negative fifty. The local Fatebinder swiftly executed them just saying that - was Kyros' law followed in that case? She's a spook, and should know better than to put that kind of information down on paper. Maybe I'd feel better if Myothis was an NPC in Bastard City and gave out her information in conversation, rather than in written form? Zulily Zoetrope posted:Uh, what? Are you talking about someone other than the Fatebinder here? They are absolutely not a "known traitor." Even on the Anarchist path, Tunon lets you keep your spires and wander around Fatebinding whoever you come across, though he is less than jazzed about your decision at Vendrien's Well. Sorry, I wasn't clear. Sure, the PC is not a traitor at this point in the game. But they are involved in high-level politics and if they lose, they will be declared a traitor and executed. Ashe and Nerat can get away with a lot as Archons - the PC is not an Archon, at this point they appear a pawn of one of the Archons (either Graven Ashe, Nerat or Tunon, dependent on the path chosen), and can be sacrificed at any point. So maybe that is the answer. Myothis is the first one to recognise that the PC is an Archon themselves, and is opportunistic - sure, if they lose, then Myothis may be in some trouble. But if they win, then now there's an Archon who owes Myothis a favour. Thanks, that actually makes a lot of sense!
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 10:57
|
|
|
I feel like Fatebinders don't challenge each other much unless one manages to piss off multiple of the others at once. Fatebinders speak with Tunon's voice, so not having the backing of other Fatebinders means that by accusing another Fatebinder of treason, you're suggesting that Tunon is also at fault.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 11:46
|
|
|
bewilderment posted:I feel like Fatebinders don't challenge each other much unless one manages to piss off multiple of the others at once. Fatebinders speak with Tunon's voice, so not having the backing of other Fatebinders means that by accusing another Fatebinder of treason, you're suggesting that Tunon is also at fault. It's like Magician's Folly except for fatebinders!
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 22:03
|
|
|
Basically everyone who sucks has diplomatic immunity. Trigger-happy mages, the Archons, you... It's almost as if someone were trying to tell us that unaccountable despotism is an ineffective method of government, no matter how much its proponents love tooting their own horn and killing dissenters! Tyranny, if you will.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 22:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 19:00 |
|
|
Zulily Zoetrope posted:Basically everyone who sucks has diplomatic immunity. Trigger-happy mages, the Archons, you... it is also noteworthy that there is precisely one exception to this, loving around with the Oldwalls, which Kyros is quite clear is something that gets you got regardless of diplomatic immunity. this gives you a hint what the Banes are, but more on that when we get more in depth on them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2020 00:59
|
|