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Some of the perks you can get are outright run-ending; leggy and lukki both completely invalidate several perks (stronger/faster levitation, levitation trail, gravity etc) and a lot of them are just situational wandcrafter ones that are almost never worth taking unless you're doing newgame+ or parallel worlds poo poo (capacity increase, low capacity/high mana, faster wands etc) The limited slots you have for wands combined with the inability to actually edit them almost anywhere, plus permadeath, means that it's often not worth trying to experiment with silly or unusual wands over just going for something with low delay + trigger into chainsaws or the like. I definitely feel like there's room for a chaotic mode type where wands are truly random (and largely overpowered) with Tinker With Wands Everywhere by default so you can just gently caress around with sillier builds, without risking losing potentially hours of run. I think I'd also split the perks into two sets that you get to pick one from each of, where one set is the perks as they are now and the other set are wandbuilding, one-time perks like Always Cast / Faster Wands / etc (though with more variety). Would make taking something like Always Cast less of a throwaway perk.
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Nov 2, 2020 23:53
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1337JiveTurkey posted:Some of those perks would be interesting as biome modifiers because stacks of more blood is hilarious even if it's a terrible, terrible idea. nearly all of the more blood perks are real good A/B tier now that they offer projectile resistance or fire immunity or such well i guess there's only slime and oil blood. I'd say oil blood is C tier actually since it's just explosion protection but slime I would definitely say is A tier from the immunity to slime slowdown and also 40% projectile reduction Futaba Anzu fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 00:23
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I think he just means taking the More Blood perk multiple times. I actually really like Slime Blood because slime no longer making you agonizingly slow is a real nice QOL improvement
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Nov 3, 2020 00:37
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Oil Blood is pretty terrible just because Explosion Immunity is a far better perk and it requires Fire Immunity to not self-immolate constantly, and given fire does percent-of-max-HP damage rather than a fixed amount it's really bad to be on fire. E: It strikes me as funny though because most things that 'bleed' oil tend to be extremely weak to explosions but resistant to everything else. E E: Make oil blood give you immunity to freezing / frozen vapour 
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Nov 3, 2020 00:37
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I didn't even know Blood Oil confers explosion resistance.
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Nov 3, 2020 01:44
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Being coated in oil does. I don't think it does anything if you unwisely leave all your blood inside your body
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Nov 3, 2020 01:48
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Oil Blood should give fire resistance since it makes you catch fire way easier
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Nov 3, 2020 01:49
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How do you all work through the biomes on a normal run, I typically stall out by snowlands or the hiisi base just from a lack of good spells and it makes me wonder how much is RNG and how much sideways exploration I need to do
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Nov 3, 2020 02:43
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Before 1.0 like half the perks were traps, since 1.0 now it's about three-fourths of them
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Nov 3, 2020 02:44
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You just learn how to make a handful of other weird spells work out, ones you maybe discounted earlier.
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Nov 3, 2020 02:47
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I had one of the blood effects and the "free liquids around you", which actually was fairly impressive defensively because freezing your own blood would make the AI lose line of sight and stop shooting.
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Nov 3, 2020 02:50
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ZypherIM posted:I had one of the blood effects and the "free liquids around you", which actually was fairly impressive defensively because freezing your own blood would make the AI lose line of sight and stop shooting. The one time I tried this with slime blood + freezing aura I got shot midair once and ended up stuck suspended between half a dozen midair pixels of frozen slime, unable to move or dodge. I died before I could dig my way out.
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Nov 3, 2020 02:59
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Zamujasa posted:Oil Blood is pretty terrible Oil Blood + Oil Trail Spell + Vampirism 
Zesty fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 03:18
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I killed my first Stevari, using circle of acid. After I spawned it, because I didn't know what circle of acid did.
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Nov 3, 2020 03:32
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Zesty posted:Oil Blood + Oil Trail Spell + Vampirism I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like this, unless they changed it?? Vampirism is such a poo poo perk, instantly triggers my OCD and I spend an hour in Hisii base licking blood off the floors e: yeah it doesn't dyzzy fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 03:39
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Ciaphas posted:How do you all work through the biomes on a normal run, I typically stall out by snowlands or the hiisi base just from a lack of good spells and it makes me wonder how much is RNG and how much sideways exploration I need to do Your top priority in the first two areas is to build a reliable combat wand. There's been a lot of words posted recently on what spells and wand bodies to look for, so I'd say read over the last couple pages for those. But there IS some skill in finding those in the first place. Obviously luck plays a part of it, sometimes you just get gently caress all, but for the most part you should usually be able to cobble together something usable. A big help is to focus on collecting gold during those first two areas. Obviously from killing enemies, but collecting the gold stashed in walls is a huge help. It's not a terrible idea to focus on getting a solid digging wand in the first area to use in the second - look for dynamite, magic missiles, fireballs, digging bolts, etc. Special shout-out to chainsaws, which dig through soft dirt and can be used for rapid-fire wands later on. If you get a reliable digger (doesn't mean infinite digging, just reliable - one or two stacks of dynamite can be used to dig out a ton of gold) its not unreasonable to go into the second holy mountain with like 1k gold. If you're lucky with the first area, you can reach the first holy mountain with 500-800. This doesn't guarantee a good wand or spells, of course, however the gold will often let you buy multiple wands at each holy mountain and you'll probably stumble onto plenty of wands (or mid-level stores) while digging for gold. The third area will slow down the gold income since there's no more in the walls, so you should instead have a good enough killing wand to focus on getting gold from enemies. At this point though you want to shift gears from exploring to just ensuring you survive to the next floor. You can do a bit of exploring of course, but it might be good to safely get to a portal and then backtrack to explore until you no longer feel comfortable - that way you'll have a reliable and relatively safe escape route. Other things to look out for are bottles of concentrated mana and pheromones. Mana turns water into more mana, so as long as you have a little mana left in a bottle you can totally refill at every Holy mountain. Also it cuts through metal, so it's useful for digging in the hiisi base and temple of the art! Pheromones can be used on the healer guys in hiisi base to get them to heal you up, which makes that area muuuuch safer. CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 03:54
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Beeline to fungal caverns to the west of the second level, find good wands/spells there then book it to the holy mountain, or die trying (the latter is far more common)
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Nov 3, 2020 04:00
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The Snowy Depths are also something of a trap when it comes to gold. A lot of enemies fly, and the highly vertical layout means that when they die they're very likely to drop their gold into a crevasse. Chasing after that gold is a trap! You may well end up dropping into a firefight or otherwise aggroing a bunch of new enemies. For the most part I consider the Snowy Depths to be a wash moneywise; you can get some money, mostly from rats, turrets, and those frozen pod spitter things, but you shouldn't try to grab every gold nugget that spawns.
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Nov 3, 2020 05:07
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Wand.ppt the recoil is too fast for the camera  e: swapped in glowing lance to dig steel and brickwork with and crashed the game. ee: loaded the game back up and finished the tower, only to discover a sad deficiency in the wand's use as a broomstick 
dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 05:38
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I mistook Teleportitis for Teleport Dodge and thought I was screwed for the rest of the run but then I learned that Teleportitis works just like the potion and as long as you look downward you can actually bank on it teleporting you right to the exit. Then after killing the boss I screwed around in his room trying to figure out how I can escape the lava, touched some drops and promptly got teleported right into a pool of lava. I'm counting this as a win.
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Nov 3, 2020 13:08
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Seems like the basic summary is: - Clear a route to the safety of the portal, then explore - Hang about in the mines & coal pits for longer; long enough to have a good attack wand/a bunch of money/both (and digging wand but I've modded to always start with one because nuts to that imo) - try the Fungal Caverns if daring What about the Collapsed Mines?
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Nov 3, 2020 13:53
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Ciaphas posted:Seems like the basic summary is: Collapsed mines are not a large biome and it rarely has any particularly challenging enemies, or anything really interesting, I think doing the first floor from right to left, picking the Tablet and using it to score trick kills as you make your way to the collapsed mines is probably the most min\max way to do the first floor. But I think that trying to play so methodically every run gets boring and while sometimes you may find decent things in the first floor you also don't miss out on that much by just booking it to the exit portal, picking up the pacifist chest and hoping for some exciting trait to pick in the first holy mountain. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 14:03
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The main incentive to doing the Collapsed Mines IMO is if you think you can get through the black area at the left edge of the zone. They changed how that area works somewhat recently and I haven't yet figured it out...it used to be that there was always a heart and a health restore in the blackness, and if you bombed left you'd get into a new area that had lots and lots of pools of various liquids. Now it seems to be somewhat random whether the heart's there and whether you need to bomb, plus the area has changed and has new enemies. I'm not gonna claim it's optimal to explore that area, but it's there if you want to check it out. Might be tricky to get to if you don't get enough explosives (that can penetrate dense rock) though. A torch also makes things a lot easier and safer.
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Nov 3, 2020 15:33
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The Snowy Depths are also something of a trap when it comes to gold. A lot of enemies fly, and the highly vertical layout means that when they die they're very likely to drop their gold into a crevasse. Chasing after that gold is a trap! You may well end up dropping into a firefight or otherwise aggroing a bunch of new enemies. For the most part I consider the Snowy Depths to be a wash moneywise; you can get some money, mostly from rats, turrets, and those frozen pod spitter things, but you shouldn't try to grab every gold nugget that spawns. Underground Jungle is this too but even more so.
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Nov 3, 2020 15:38
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The main incentive to doing the Collapsed Mines IMO is if you think you can get through the black area at the left edge of the zone. They changed how that area works somewhat recently and I haven't yet figured it out...it used to be that there was always a heart and a health restore in the blackness, and if you bombed left you'd get into a new area that had lots and lots of pools of various liquids. Now it seems to be somewhat random whether the heart's there and whether you need to bomb, plus the area has changed and has new enemies. There used to be only one layout, now there are a set of them for the dark cave. You'll want something that can light the place up in order to reliably find the heal and the max hp pickup. I don't bother going to collapsed mines unless I have something that can do that + digging.
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Nov 3, 2020 16:31
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You know what my CPU doesn't like? Really doesn't like? Trying to drain the Lake by transmuting it to whiskey and setting it on fire.
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Nov 3, 2020 17:59
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Eric the Mauve posted:You know what my CPU doesn't like? I had a moment like that the other night, but it was just a lot of wood and flammable gas.
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Nov 3, 2020 18:15
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Killed myself just before the exit to vault by casually walking into a mixture of slime and acceleratium 
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Nov 3, 2020 19:26
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Ciaphas posted:Seems like the basic summary is: I'd upgrade fungal caves from "try if daring" to "almost always try, unless you have 10hp left or already have a really great wand". Going slow and steady isn't as fun as taking big risks for big payoffs, especially since you only lose 1.5 areas worth of progress if you die.
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Nov 3, 2020 19:43
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:I'd upgrade fungal caves from "try if daring" to "almost always try, unless you have 10hp left or already have a really great wand". Also there are more conditionals like "if you're not insanely overpowered by Hisii Base but found the wands/spells to be able to do some sequence-break backtracking, consider going back and doing Fungal Caverns before Jungle because ugggggh gently caress Jungle"
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Nov 3, 2020 21:24
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I am utterly convinced that if the "randomized starts" mod starts you as a lightning witch, then it removes 80% of the flasks from the first level (replacing them with eggs, lightning stones, or flasks that are placed in pools of liquid and therefore cannot be accessed without destroying them) and doubles the amount of fire/toxic sludge. And if you start as an eldritch witch then most of the wands and flasks require digging to access. It's uncanny, really.
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Nov 4, 2020 00:20
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I am utterly convinced that if the "randomized starts" mod starts you as a lightning witch, then it removes 80% of the flasks from the first level (replacing them with eggs, lightning stones, or flasks that are placed in pools of liquid and therefore cannot be accessed without destroying them) and doubles the amount of fire/toxic sludge. And if you start as an eldritch witch then most of the wands and flasks require digging to access. yes and if it starts you as a fire witch then it proceeds to give you nothing but absolute garbage for wands and spells so that the first time you run into a fireproof enemy you're left virtually helpless
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Nov 4, 2020 01:06
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I haven't had trouble with fire/slime/butcher witches (slime witch is probably king OP because it starts with most of the ingredients for a homing death cloud wand). Summoner witches have mediocre wands but at least they can get good money. But eldritch has no way to dig or set off crates/barrels short of kicking a lantern at one, and lightning has no bottles to start with and is extremely prone to getting set on fire, so it's maddening when the level seems designed specifically to exploit those weaknesses.
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Nov 4, 2020 01:22
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I'm intending to balance the loadouts a bit this week, actually! I'm glad to hear people are still using them.  (Also just today I made Oil Blood give you fire immunity; making the weaker perks more useful is on the list.)
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Nov 4, 2020 05:50
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y'all giving the game so many updates and improvements is really awesome. makes it fun to watch since there's often new stuff and yall listen to feedback
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Nov 4, 2020 06:08
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If I can give a QoL suggestion, it would be really nice if the leg mutations let you freely move around with WASD as if there was no gravity if you were close enough to a wall, instead of needing to repeatedly tap up to keep your height above the ground.
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Nov 4, 2020 06:11
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Suggestion: Oil blood should greatly extend your burn time but cut the damage like 7/8ths
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Nov 4, 2020 06:23
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oil blood is always going to be inherently boring, just make it lava blood and call it a day should it come with lava immunity? you be the judge
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Nov 4, 2020 07:32
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I'm a bad player but I think this is a good tip for people who are working on their first win: getting to the boss is significantly more challenging than killing it, even if you use every cheesy tactic you can find to just blitz through levels your odds of being too weak to kill the boss are still pretty slim as long as you pick up the perks and manage to assemble any decently damaging wand along the way, it doesn't have to be an OP chain gun trigger, the dude really doesn't have that much HP.
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Nov 4, 2020 09:57
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Right up until you New Game + 27-odd times and fight that boss after it's been given 60 or so exponential boosts so its HP is something like 528915791285192586195829856129586
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Nov 4, 2020 10:19
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