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generic metric posted:It really is telling that you just label it as "unfortunate" and idgaf about liberal legal terms. No I just don't know how to structure the legislation in a way that wouldn't do more harm. Right now there are Christian and Islamic religious leaders teaching people that I'm sick and amoral due to my sexual orientation. That is unfortunate. I don't know how to craft legislation that prevents that without infringing on their rights to be lovely people with terrible opinions. generic metric posted:Nobody said religion can never be mocked. What I am saying is islamophobia and racism go hand in hand in certain countries like let's say.... France where muslims and people with MENA origin are actively oppressed or worse. Fascists use religion for oppression in those countries. Spell out what you want You say we can criticize religion and apparently nobody is suggesting any legal changes so what exactly is the point of this argument? We should be nicer to each other? Sure. Good point.
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Oct 31, 2020 16:50
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Hot take: one organised religion is one too many. It has taken hundreds of years to kick the various christian groups' poo poo in hard enough that their staff by and large keep their heads down and don't try to seriously stir poo poo up anymore. If any bishop or cardinal comments on political affairs or people's lives, everyone is free to ignore him/call the guy an irrelevant idiot/say god isn't real, and the whole institution can just peacefully wither away due to low numbers of young people being religious enough to join (with occasional speedups in the process whenever the Irish discover yet another mass grave full of orphans under the charge of the church/another pedo scandal hits). If anyone tried to put the catholic or protestant churches in charge of worldly affairs again, the whole thing should be nipped in the bud and the churches should be neutered by essentially getting put under state supervision like in Scandinavian countries. If any other religious group tries to claim the same authority, they, too should get their poo poo kicked in, and having a lot of poor and/or non white members isn't a valid defense.
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Oct 31, 2020 17:39
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Good things the only place muslims are trying to do this is in the fever dreams of racists, then. Edit: Poland literally all but outlawed abortion a few days ago, my man. Maybe this might be a slightly more immediate concern?? Kassad fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 18:38
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Kassad posted:Good things the only place muslims are trying to do this is in the fever dreams of racists, then. i am quite comfortable with assuming that anti-theists itt are also anti-christianity for the record, i am absolutely opposed to christianity's enduring grip on relatively large parts of the population. i don't think that suppressing religious expression is a constructive way to deal with religiosity, but i'm all for undermining religious authorities of all stripes, including caricatures of muhammad where there's an artistic or intellectual point to be made, as in the 'tout est pardonée' cartoon V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 21:15
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The new Danish racist party, the one that explicitly allows neo-nazis in its ranks, whose leader uses racial slurs equivalent to the n-word on national television and is also a proponent of ethnic cleansing, The New Right—which got into parliament last election and is presently polling at 10% because a lot of voters jumped ship from the Danish People's Party—is now raising money to print Muhammad caricatures as ads in newspapers. The major parties welcome the project and its alleged singular message of free speech.
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Oct 31, 2020 21:43
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suck my woke dick posted:It has taken hundreds of years to kick the various christian groups' poo poo in hard enough that their staff by and large keep their heads down and don't try to seriously stir poo poo up anymore Which reality are you describing because it's not the one you or I are inhabiting
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Nov 1, 2020 03:52
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the Catholic one, probably, where the point of reference is a world where the Church runs the schools, the hospitals, the charities, the public squares and shared festivals, and every birth, wedding, and funeral again, my understanding is that French laïcité is a great deal more aggressive than Anglospheric secularism, because it is not merely limited to state organizations maintaining a secular character, but also an assumption that a dominant share of non-state civil-social organizations also maintain a secular character this is an outlook that is hard to couch in terms of liberal individual rights discourse - it's a kind of communitarian ethic. Historically speaking, valourization of long-19th-century anticlericalism in left-wing discourse seems more common on the continental left - in part because the clergy are blamed for the failures of the 1848 revolutionary wave to gain the support of the rural peasantry the lesson drawn was that it was not enough to remake the state: one must also remake society, which implies the state getting its hands dirty weakening churches if need demands (through e.g. expropriating church property, as France did in 1905) ronya fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Nov 1, 2020 |
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Nov 1, 2020 06:31
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ronya posted:the Catholic one, probably, where the point of reference is a world where the Church runs the schools, the hospitals, the charities, the public squares and shared festivals, and every birth, wedding, and funeral Oh like Poland then
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Nov 1, 2020 14:21
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Although to be fair the church doesn’t run every hospital
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Nov 1, 2020 14:21
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Obviously no every country has seen the church's influence crushed yet, which is one more reason to keep up the fight.
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Nov 1, 2020 14:30
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*laughs in Italian*
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Nov 1, 2020 14:31
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steinrokkan posted:Obviously no every country has seen the church's influence crushed yet, which is one more reason to keep up the fight. Sure but that's why all the focus on Muslims is misguided at best.
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Nov 1, 2020 15:40
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can any recommend a good Belgian news source that has an English version of their website? I just wanted to read about the huge covid outbreak there from a source within the country.
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Nov 1, 2020 16:03
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actionjackson posted:can any recommend a good Belgian news source that has an English version of their website? I just wanted to read about the huge covid outbreak there from a source within the country. In case no one answers your question, both Dutch and French should pass through Google translate well enough to be intelligble
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Nov 1, 2020 16:21
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Oh no, Charlie Hebdo didn't allow the racist party to use their Muhammad cartoons in newspaper ads, free speech is cancelled.
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Nov 2, 2020 15:38
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SplitSoul posted:the racist party It's 2020 so I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific.
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Nov 2, 2020 15:52
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Kassad posted:It's 2020 so I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific. Nye Borgerlige (lit. New Bourgeois, AKA The New Right). Scroll up a few posts.
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Nov 2, 2020 15:59
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SplitSoul posted:Nye Borgerlige (lit. New Bourgeois, AKA The New Right). Scroll up a few posts. Oh, I thought you meant a French party. A fash mayor pulled a similar stunt on billboards in his town after the killing of the school teacher. Kassad fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Nov 2, 2020 |
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Nov 2, 2020 16:30
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actionjackson posted:can any recommend a good Belgian news source that has an English version of their website? I just wanted to read about the huge covid outbreak there from a source within the country. https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/en/ I don't think they've got everything in English, but there should be enough to get the gist of it.
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Nov 2, 2020 16:43
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Kassad posted:Oh, I thought you meant a French party. A fash mayor pulled a similar stunt on billboards in his town after the killing of the school teacher. This party had the support of the two major parties and two large newspapers had already said they'd print them. Guess they're more scared of lawyers than jihadis.
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Nov 2, 2020 17:20
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nimby posted:https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/en/ cool thx
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Nov 2, 2020 22:29
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poo poo going down in
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Nov 3, 2020 00:17
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I live in Vienna and I have never experienced something like this. This is happening like 20 walking mins from my apartment. I can hear the squad car sirens and copters. This was one of the safest cities in Europe. We haven't seen any acts of terrorism in the last 40 years. There are already some awful videos going around, of a cop being gunned down and another shooter casually murdering a civilian while running past him.
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Nov 3, 2020 00:23
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stay safe, let's hope that this gets resolved without anyone else dying
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Nov 3, 2020 01:13
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suck my woke dick posted:poo poo going down in quote:Initial reports had suggested that the nearby Stadttempel synagogue could have been the target of the attack.
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Nov 3, 2020 01:51
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well i hope that the proximity to the synagogue really is a coincidence
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Nov 3, 2020 02:04
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Austria is going into COVID lockdown today so a lot of people were out taking their last chance to grab a drink or whatever and there's a lot of pubs and restaurants in the area. Which I guess could have been a large factor in where and when it happened. What I also just realized is that christmas markets were about to open if the new wave of COVID wouldn't have forced them to be postponed and possibly cancelled. And holy gently caress if that means we actually had a terror cell getting ready to shoot those places up.
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Nov 3, 2020 02:24
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Apparently the shooter that was shot and killed was already known to intelligence services.
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Nov 3, 2020 11:00
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Media is saying that the killed terrorist was Austrian born Albanian with citizenship of both Austria and Northern Macedonia. Police also suspects that more shooters are still at large.SplitSoul posted:Apparently the shooter that was shot and killed was already known to intelligence services.
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Nov 3, 2020 11:12
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Glah posted:Yup, seems like a failure of intelligence services. The killed terrorist was one of the approximately 90 Austrian citizens who had went to Syria to fight for jihadists. This is one of those things where it is tricky to do anything about. Outlaw being a member of extremist organization? But what then? Shootings tend to be the province of young adult men, so maybe by the time they're out they'll be less likely to be violent?
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Nov 3, 2020 11:46
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They did send him to jail, he was released end of last year e: he only was in prison for 8 months though
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Nov 3, 2020 11:57
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Yeah I just read that. But eight months for (trying to?) fight for ISIS seems...short to me? How long is appropriate for trying to join a murder-y organization like that to go kill people?
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Nov 3, 2020 11:58
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Clearly the solution is to increase surveillance, so that for an even higher % of shootings, we can retroactively say we should have been able to stop the terrorist.Cicero posted:Put them in jail? It's not a perfect solution, but it seems to me like going to actively fight for a jihadist organization is or ought to be a serious crime? Sounds like a good idea, let's exclude a bunch of random Saudi funded groups whose members just happen to take their Kalashnikovs on holiday in Syria from the blacklist and mainly arrest shouty PKK members who once smashed a window during a protest.
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Nov 3, 2020 12:17
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Ah yes, well known fount of deprogramming and de-radicalization: prison.
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Nov 3, 2020 12:29
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suck my woke dick posted:Sounds like a good idea, let's exclude a bunch of random Saudi funded groups whose members just happen to take their Kalashnikovs on holiday in Syria from the blacklist and mainly arrest shouty PKK members who once smashed a window during a protest. That reminds me, Wikileaks cables confirmed that the PM at the time of the OG caricature crisis traded charges of "material support for terrorists" against Kurdish ROJ TV, which was based in Denmark, for his NATO Secretary General post.
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Nov 3, 2020 12:36
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An insane mind posted:Ah yes, well known fount of deprogramming and de-radicalization: prison.
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Nov 3, 2020 12:41
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As Austrian I can provide some insights. Long prison terms are not really that common here, especially since our prisons are quite full at the moment. So unless someone commits a really serious violent crime, there's a good chance that you see relatively short prison sentences. Our Anti-Terror and Protection of the Constitution Agency is in disarray since 2018, cause of political infighting, started by the FPÖ (Nazi Party), which was in a coalition with the ÖVP (lovely conservatives, only slightly less evil than then GOP) back then. In the same year the offices of said anti-terror agency (which is generally considered to be within the hemisphere of the ÖVP) and the private homes of several of it's officials were searched by a police unit led by a FPÖ member, after they obtained a search warrant from the anti-corruption agency. The reason for that were severe accusations against the Agency and it's leadership from an anonymous insider source. Vital date, including investigations into Neonazi groups, was confiscated (rly great idea to let such data get into the hands of a guy who is a member of a party with Neonazi connections). A bit later a higher court decided that the search was illegal. Herbert Kickl, a FPÖ member and minister of the interior back then, also suspended the head of the anti-terror agency, he was reinstated after an investigative committee found no proof of any wrongdoings. Also the accusations from the anonymous source turned out to be wrong. Fast forward to 2019 - the Nazi party imploded over a corruption scandal. Reelections. Conservatives and Green Party formed a new government. 2020 - the Anti-Terror Agency is still undergoing reforms and has not really recovered from the 2018 events. For more info just google: BVT Affair.... The stage for yesterday's attacks was set by sloppiness, political infighting, corruption, party interests and a general tone deafness to what is going on in Europe. And honestly, we were very lucky. Had the terrorist been smarter and attacked a subway station during the morning traffic, he could have caused a lot more casualties. Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Nov 3, 2020 |
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Nov 3, 2020 12:53
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Hammerstein posted:Long prison terms are not really that common here, especially since our prisons are quite full at. Not to be a dick, but this sounds like a contradiction.
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Nov 3, 2020 13:27
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nah people get home sentences and deferred prison time all the time due to crowded prisons up here, and we also dodged the ridiculous tough on crime bullet in the eighties and nineties idk if we're still doing it but for a while we were renting a dutch prison and sending people over there lol
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Nov 3, 2020 13:31
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MiddleOne posted:Not to be a dick, but this sounds like a contradiction.
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Nov 3, 2020 13:31
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