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sebzilla posted:Hoping for a funny 269-269 tie result for maximum hellworld. Still quite possible. Even more a hellhole you could have 271-267 and then have have a few faithless electors not vote. 2016 has 7. Edit Oh page snipe. Here's one of my pigs begging for veggies. My partner gets up and goes to work while I'm in bed, so the guinea pigs often try and pretend they haven't been fed.  Yes I booped it. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 12:06
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Beefeater1980 posted:America may simply be too big to feel kinship with each other. Kinship runs along strange lines.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:10
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Mega Comrade posted:Even more a hellhole you could have 271-267 and then have have a few faithless electors not vote. I know the electoral college is a hosed up system but dunno how I feel about letting a British trip-hoppy group get to vote in it.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:14
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If I had to chose one moment where the democrats hosed it it would be when they sent an ancient man with dementia out to tell all Latino people to gently caress off and vote for Trump if they don't like it. Or when they refused to actually promise something vaguely different from Trump other than the promise of apathy. Or refusing to campaign at all, really. Or when they pressed their thumb so hard on the scales that the old man with dementia won rather than the socialist. Hard to pin it down but that's what I'd have done differently.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:20
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Gonzo McFee posted:If I had to chose one moment where the democrats hosed it it would be when they sent an ancient man with dementia out to tell all Latino people to gently caress off and vote for Trump if they don't like it. I think he did this with basically every demographic
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Nov 4, 2020 12:23
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Gonzo McFee posted:If I had to chose one moment where the democrats hosed it it would be when they sent an ancient man with dementia out to tell all Latino people to gently caress off and vote for Trump if they don't like it. Or when they refused to actually promise something vaguely different from Trump other than the promise of apathy. Or refusing to campaign at all, really. Or when they pressed their thumb so hard on the scales that the old man with dementia won rather than the socialist. But not campaigning worked so well in 2016! What's great is that regardless of the eventual result, the brain geniuses who ran this campaign & ran 2016 will continue to get work running campaigns because that's America for you.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:25
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Gonzo McFee posted:If I had to chose one moment where the democrats hosed it it would be when they sent an ancient man with dementia out to tell all Latino people to gently caress off and vote for Trump if they don't like it. Or when they refused to actually promise something vaguely different from Trump other than the promise of apathy. Or refusing to campaign at all, really. Or when they pressed their thumb so hard on the scales that the old man with dementia won rather than the socialist. In case anyone thinks this is an exaggeration https://twitter.com/disco_socialist/status/1323946668555870209?s=19
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Nov 4, 2020 12:26
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Guavanaut posted:Saw a strange form of that with the proposed HK repatriations last year, hardline Brexiteers going "yes, but they're British overseas citizens, so of course they should be allowed here." All communities bigger than the immediate family are imaginary; they exist because we believe they do and they collapse if we stop believing in them. So theoretically all it would take is to change those communities is a good story. Brexit showed this and so does the HK thing: both played into the view that Tory voters have of themselves, which as far as I can tell is sensible, practical-minded people who are a bit stubborn but fundamentally decent. As opposed to our view of them which is inhuman ghouls who lust for our death. And Tory voters are a majority in England & Wales. I think a genuine challenge for modern leftism is a failure to connect at the human level, and it’s encouraging that there are people like Corbyn or AOC who can do it right. Otherwise it’s all about big trends here and historical forces there and “the individual doesn’t matter” and that is a FAR weaker message than “you can make a difference”.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:26
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I assume this was posted but  https://twitter.com/dominictbarry/status/1323294273907748864
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Nov 4, 2020 12:28
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It is absolutely the case that America doesn’t feel kinship with each other but it’s more along an urban/rural divide than anything else. Democrats or those who might as well be flee the red countrysides and move into the cities. This leaves anyone who can’t stuck in MAGA world. Every bit of media just reinforces this point of view, especially on the right. The democratic side of the left is constantly looking down their nose at the right and generally refers to them as nothing more than flyover areas because consciousness of the class struggle doesn’t inform any of their decisions. This is why Bernie was shunted aside in favour of Captain Senility (although Bernie made some terrible campaign decisions, too). Meanwhile the right just gets madder and madder and takes malicious glee in serving up poo poo on a platter because, outside of all the political lies, they’re fine with eating poo poo as long as Democrats have to smell it. Like, we literally have gangs of roving MAGAs running people off the road, threatening murder, and harassing others for disagreeing. That just doesn’t really happen on the left in the states (there are protests but not this sort of thing). It’s difficult to construct a scenario where it’s easy to reunite two groups like that. As someone from a supremely red area, I don’t think any of these people on the right are as stupid as Democrats love to talk about, I just think they’re loving evil. I still want to vote for policies that improve their situation because what nobody ever wants to talk about is that we all win when we all win. Edit: I’ll add that I think a huge part of the resentment and fear that develops on the right is because they are just never exposed to anyone different. Or if they are it’s a one time thing they can safely write off as some weird one-off. I didn’t meet anyone who wasn’t a standard white Christian American type of person, mostly white republicans, until I was like 12. mediaphage fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 12:28
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Beefeater1980 posted:And Tory voters are a majority in England & Wales. Tories made gains in 2019, but they still aren't a majority in Wales. Next election though you may be right.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:33
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c0burn posted:I assume this was posted but Imagine doing numbers like that off of a stolen Getfiscal Tweet. forkboy84 posted:But not campaigning worked so well in 2016! So much of politics is just the kids and hangers on to the few successful people in their party claiming to have all the answers and then absolutely loving themselves off a bridge because they don't have a loving clue what they're doing and then getting to do it all over again because this is all just one big long grift.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:34
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Gonzo McFee posted:Imagine doing numbers like that off of a stolen Getfiscal Tweet. Almost as if it's a political aristocracy forming
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Nov 4, 2020 12:43
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Gonzo McFee posted:If I had to chose one moment where the democrats hosed it it would be when they sent an ancient man with dementia out to tell all Latino people to gently caress off and vote for Trump if they don't like it. Or when they refused to actually promise something vaguely different from Trump other than the promise of apathy. Or refusing to campaign at all, really. Or when they pressed their thumb so hard on the scales that the old man with dementia won rather than the socialist. Voters: "Are you going to give us universal healthcare?" Biden: "No." Voters: "Are you going to do anything about climate change by instituting the Green New Deal?" Biden: "No." Voters: "Are you going to support a national minimum wage?" Biden: "No." Voters: "Are you going to tear down Trump's wall?" Biden: "No." Voters: "Are you going to pack the Supreme Court to overcome its massive hard-right evangelist Republican majority?" Biden: "I may consider establishing a bipartisan committee to examine the possibility of perhaps doing so if the circumstances might require it." Voters: "Are you going to offer anything other than the neoliberal status quo?" Biden: "No. But to reiterate: I'm not Trump." Voters: 
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Nov 4, 2020 12:44
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Gonzo McFee posted:lol how the gently caress do you lose to Trump twice? By fighting him in a system expressly designed to make him win despite not actually having the support of the majority of the country.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:45
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Beefeater1980 posted:I think a genuine challenge for modern leftism is a failure to connect at the human level, and it’s encouraging that there are people like Corbyn or AOC who can do it right. Otherwise it’s all about big trends here and historical forces there and “the individual doesn’t matter” and that is a FAR weaker message than “you can make a difference”. It's more a case of this kind of thing  where the Other is centered a someone worth doing things for, even if it does fall back on "you made a difference" it's still because we made a difference. forkboy84 posted:Almost as if it's a political aristocracy forming
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Nov 4, 2020 12:46
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thespaceinvader posted:By fighting him in a system expressly designed to make him win despite not actually having the support of the majority of the country. Trump's vote share INCREASED this year.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:48
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jabby posted:Fun thought: even if Biden wins, it looks like the Dems are not going to take the Senate. So that takes court packing off the table, meaning the ACA and Roe vs. Wade can be reversed and the Dems can do nothing about it (even if they were inclined to). There might well be an early January double runoff election in Georgia for the two Senate seats there, if I understand the system correctly. One seat will certainly not hit 50% and the other might not either once all the votes are in.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:51
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There’s also a faint hope of forcing Collins into a runoff which I would live for tbh
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Nov 4, 2020 12:52
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Gonzo McFee posted:Trump's vote share INCREASED this year. Given that he lost by a substantial margin last time and still stole the election this isn't saying much.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:56
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Payndz posted:Biden: "Vote for me! I'm not Trump!" I'm sympathetic to this because, well, just look at Biden and the state of the Democrats, but the implicit argument that this clusterfuck of an election is a consequence of voter apathy isn't true at all: https://twitter.com/bpmehlman/status/1323950208477265921
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Nov 4, 2020 12:57
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Gonzo McFee posted:Trump's vote share INCREASED this year. It may have done, but so has Bidens over Hillary. He's set to win the popular vote quote comfortably regardless of how the electoral college sits. In good US election news Sarah McBride won her seat becoming the first every transgender senator.
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Nov 4, 2020 12:58
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I can only hope now that the health of both Johnson and Trump is slowly ticking away like a COVID-poison status effect.
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Nov 4, 2020 13:07
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Mega Comrade posted:It may have done, but so has Bidens over Hillary. He's set to win the popular vote quote comfortably regardless of how the electoral college sits. Can they both increase their vote share at the same time?
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Nov 4, 2020 13:09
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Gravastars posted:I can only hope now that the health of both Johnson and Trump is slowly ticking away like a COVID-poison status effect. As a Brit, this is nail biting, as Trump means a hard no deal brexit over here, while Biden gives us a slight hope of a trade deal with the EU. That and not breaking the Good Friday agreement and starting up the troubles again. I've lived through that once thank you very much!
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Nov 4, 2020 13:11
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https://twitter.com/SenseiChanning/status/1323962119738576896
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Nov 4, 2020 13:16
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Gravastars posted:I can only hope now that the health of both Johnson and Trump is slowly ticking away like a COVID-poison status effect. Nope, I want Trump to lose and then live a long, painful life riddled with ill-health, beset by legal problems, bankruptcy, and knowing that he lost this election (pls god).
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Nov 4, 2020 13:17
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^^^ Trump and Johnson had 24 hour care the second they showed symptoms, went straight on steroids as a pre-emptive measure and have access to premium healthcare amd nutrition options the rest of us don't. The people developing long-term problems are the ones under the normal system where they get told to self isolate with no care or drugs, are only ventilated when the virus is already attacking their lungs, and get booted home ASAP to a moldy bedsit with cheap, low nutrition food for recovery.forkboy84 posted:The Democratic Party must be the dumbest most complacent political party since PASOK Beefeater1980 posted:Actually I wonder if there’s something to the theory that people get more right wing when times are hard because solidarity flies out the window when you’re desperate. Based on a psychology study they split the base into two groups. One went into the room when it was clean, well presented, had flowers and smelled of coffee; the other group went in and the floor was dirtied up, the tables were cheap and cracked, old pizza boxes lying around, lights flickering or out etc. I can't remember the exact wording but the 'safe' group were found to be far more progressive and willing to help others than the 'unsafe' group, who were consistently more "gently caress 'em" in terms of their responses. Borrovan posted:Yeah idk if the tests have changed since a medic told me this, but they at least used to be biased towards false negatives. In the hospitals they just kept testing until it came back positive. So yeah, plenty of people running around with obvious symptoms and even hospitalised, but who tested negative and so continue to go to shops, visit relatives, send their kids to school and go to work. Sister-in-law continues to go out visiting her divorced loving karen friend, climbing, skating etc. She's not taking this poo poo seriously at all. Delighted in telling us how we could probably 'get round' the lockdown rules to get a bunch of people to help us move. At the best of times I don't want her or any of the people she's suggesting help us move because they're arseholes I don't want taking over the process. People are sick of lockdown amd want to get back to normal. It's like smoking mentality. People don't want to give up the thing and just shrug and accept that a small number of people will die. Payndz posted:Biden: "No. But to reiterate: I'm not Trump." Same with Starmer. Everyone knows Boris is corrupt and useless, but they do at least know him, and thanks to HIGNFY he's 'our' Boris. Starmer is an unknown who is refusing to make a case for himself, and people will not vote for an unknown, even if the alternative is a complete monster we do know. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 13:18
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Grey Hunter posted:As a Brit, this is nail biting, as Trump means a hard no deal brexit over here, while Biden gives us a slight hope of a trade deal with the EU. if trump won but the house remains dem would the trade deal get blocked anyway? i still think bidens going to win in any case unless there is supreme court shenanigans
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Nov 4, 2020 13:19
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Can they both increase their vote share at the same time? Yup, by crushing third parties.
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Nov 4, 2020 13:20
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Niric posted:I'm sympathetic to this because, well, just look at Biden and the state of the Democrats, but the implicit argument that this clusterfuck of an election is a consequence of voter apathy isn't true at all: A third of the electorate didn't vote. 66% turnout is not worth singing about
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Nov 4, 2020 13:20
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Can they both increase their vote share at the same time? Yes because it looks like in some places the vote share of third parties went from minuscule to nonexistent. Biden is likely going to win but it’s going to be a stagnant term as long as that loving turtle lich retains senate control quote="zhar" post="509580030"] if trump won but the house remains dem would the trade deal get blocked anyway? i still think bidens going to win in any case unless there is supreme court shenanigans [/quote] theoretically pelosi is very firmly against it but they are known capitulators at times so I wouldn’t hold my breath
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Nov 4, 2020 13:21
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Bobby Deluxe posted:They're not dumb, they have the same problem as UK labour, i.e a party full of liberals who'd rather spike the election than let a genuinely popular and progressive candidate get in. Yes OP, that's loving dumb
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Nov 4, 2020 13:22
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imagine being the QC saying this https://twitter.com/tombfowler/status/1323960616671916032?s=20
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Nov 4, 2020 13:24
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forkboy84 posted:A third of the electorate didn't vote. 66% turnout is not worth singing about It's not celebrating the turnout figures to say that voter apathy isn't a useful explanation because voters are less apathetic than previously.
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Nov 4, 2020 13:30
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Well the reason for Trumps 'we've won the rest is fraud' speech is now becoming apparent. The mail in ballots have overturned a reasonable vote defecit and now have Biden up by 20,000, a swing of nearly 100k ifs Trumps speech figures were to be believed with only heavily democrat leaning areas to come in. This is also tallying with Wisconsin. If this carries on like this its going to end up in court for sure as he won't concede as he 'won' on election night.
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Nov 4, 2020 13:31
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Re Biden: he’s completely a pro establishment, pro status quo candidate. If the status quo isn’t working for like 50% of americans, why is promising them the status quo with maybe some minor sweeteners a vote winner? Answer: it’s not. This is what Hilary learnt to her cost. Biden might well learn the same. Hopefully the dems and the Labour Party will learn something from this but I doubt it. To liberals, everything is fine and nothing needs to change, even while the working class are unable to even feed their kids.
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Nov 4, 2020 13:32
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Niric posted:It's not celebrating the turnout figures to say that voter apathy isn't a useful explanation because voters are less apathetic than previously. Voters marginally less apathetic than usual despite the unbelievably large stakes, I dunno, apathy and alienation still seem like pretty useful explanations.
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Nov 4, 2020 13:34
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At 8am this morning Trump had a lead of close to 300,000 in Michigan. its now down to about 12k, all from Postal ballots. At the rate this is going Michigan might still tell him to gently caress off, who knows.
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Nov 4, 2020 13:38
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Drone_Fragger posted:Re Biden: he’s completely a pro establishment, pro status quo candidate. If the status quo isn’t working for like 50% of americans, why is promising them the status quo with maybe some minor sweeteners a vote winner? Answer: it’s not. This is what Hilary learnt to her cost. Biden might well learn the same. Hopefully the dems and the Labour Party will learn something from this but I doubt it. To liberals, everything is fine and nothing needs to change, even while the working class are unable to even feed their kids. No they're saying Biden was too left wing. Not even joking.
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Nov 4, 2020 13:39
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