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Apart from the cage wouldn't you just be better off reshelling it. I wonder if the NC has a similar ice mode as i've been helping a friend build an nc track car. At least it wasnt yer fault, last year I managed this   spun backwards across the track and then into a tyre wall after about 15 minutes of running.Luckily I went into it pretty straight and had scrubbed off most of the speed so the damage was all cosmetic barring a tiny leak of the chargecooler system. Still was pretty embarrasing, but it was to be expected one rear wheel on the grass and the front of the car loaded up. Could've been worse! It couldve dug into the gravel and rolled haha. Car is all fixed and back on the road now but covid and motivation has stopped me doing anything this year. I wanna at least do one day at the Nordschleife and maybe Spa then maybe I'll get rid of it.
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Oct 5, 2020 04:32
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| # ? May 17, 2024 21:27 |
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track day bro! posted:Apart from the cage wouldn't you just be better off reshelling it. I wonder if the NC has a similar ice mode as i've been helping a friend build an nc track car. A friend that works at a fab shop is coming by after work to see which way to go with it, I was kinda thinking it is borderline for a reshell. I'm not sure about the NC, but from what I was reading on TurboMiata I guess the ice mode seems to be common with stock ABS and the TSE brake kit, i dunno. I remember the poor MR2  . I'm glad that you've got it all fixed up, it is a pretty car.TrueChaos posted:That looks painful, glad you're okay. What year is yours again? I don't know if this is just how ABS works, but in my '99NB if you wind up engaging AB with low pedal force it will pulse with that level of braking force. Braking over a crest or at the wrong time over a bump results in basically no braking force if the abs kicks in. It looked like you went through a cloud of dirt just prior, I wonder if a car ahead dropped some dirt on the track that you managed to find.
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Oct 5, 2020 16:19
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NC ABS is pretty good even with Hoosiers. There's a super secret squirrel RX-8 ABS unique to one option code that doesn't have any ice mode though and was actually used in the pro World Challenge cars.
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Oct 5, 2020 16:32
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Does anyone have a favorite street pad that stands up to mountain driving? I have stock pads on my Civic Si and faded them to hell. I’ve had the HPS and HP+ on my Miata in the past and liked neither. The HPS didn’t feel like it had the modulation of the OEM pads or much higher of a temp tolerance, and the HP+ was dusty, loud, and only lasted like two track days.
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Oct 7, 2020 15:34
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I like the Stoptech Street Performance / Sport / 309 pad for street use and they apparently hold up to high temp pretty well. Real track day I'd put real non-street pads in tho.
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Oct 7, 2020 18:46
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For sure. I’ve tried the street track combo pad game before. It was always a bad idea.
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Oct 7, 2020 19:40
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The 309 stoptechs are cheap and will definitely hold up to mountain road driving and be fine around town. I was on those for a long time and liked them. Just went to 308s because I didn't really need to spend the extra money. I notice a little less bite out of them. And I do know people who have gotten away with using those for the occasional track day but it wouldn't be my choice if I was doing it a lot. Also sorry about your miata blackmk4 jamal fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Oct 7, 2020 |
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Oct 7, 2020 20:27
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I've had good luck with EBC brakes in the past. Yellow was comparable to HP+ and Blue was a bit better braking performance but withstood substantially more heat. Dust was much better than Hawks.
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Oct 8, 2020 01:28
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Looking forward to my first HPDE session at Daytona this weekend!
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Oct 9, 2020 12:49
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Professor Spatula posted:Looking forward to my first HPDE session at Daytona this weekend! Congrats! HPDE is a ton of fun. Go learn a lot.
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Oct 9, 2020 14:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J9ffRgADRU
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Oct 9, 2020 18:23
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Professor Spatula posted:Looking forward to my first HPDE session at Daytona this weekend! Is it the full course?
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Oct 10, 2020 01:14
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+1 for stoptech 309s. I bought some when I put porsche calipers on my M3 because they were like $85 CAD for a set. They're really drat cheap for some reason and worked awesome for autoX.
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Oct 10, 2020 15:00
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Sadi posted:Does anyone have a favorite street pad that stands up to mountain driving? I have stock pads on my Civic Si and faded them to hell. I’ve had the HPS and HP+ on my Miata in the past and liked neither. The HPS didn’t feel like it had the modulation of the OEM pads or much higher of a temp tolerance, and the HP+ was dusty, loud, and only lasted like two track days. Endless MX72’s are good, but pricey.
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Oct 10, 2020 15:44
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net work error posted:Is it the full course? It’s the 2 day level 1 course. Only thing that kind of sucks is that due to COVID restrictions, there is no in-car instructor so it’s all lead follow. They said they will try to get some direct instruction time tomorrow but I’m not holding my breath. Still a ton of fun to open up the Hellcat.
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Oct 10, 2020 20:23
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Today's lesson: do not undertorque your brake bleeder screws. One of mine backed out 5 laps into the last session of the day, and I was fortunate that Arizona Motorsports Park has a ton of runoff room at the end of the 110mph straight where it let go and dumped all my fluid. Could have been a lot worse!
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Oct 11, 2020 04:06
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So day 2 at Daytona has been a big improvement. We were able to get in car instructors as long as both people agreed. At first, there weren’t any extra instructors and we had two students in our group. Fortunately, our instructor’s dad was hanging out and also a certified instructor. 3 sessions in so far today, the Hellcat just devours the oval but I’m working on my brake zones from speed. Went hot into turn 3 and understeered right off. I’m realizing that I’m more scared of the turns than the car is. Next time I’ll probably switch to some stickier tires (just running stock all seasons) and maybe upgrade the brake pads.
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Oct 11, 2020 20:01
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heffray posted:Today's lesson: do not undertorque your brake bleeder screws. One of mine backed out 5 laps into the last session of the day, and I was fortunate that Arizona Motorsports Park has a ton of runoff room at the end of the 110mph straight where it let go and dumped all my fluid. For real, and fortunately you picked one of the best corners for it since some of the others don't have nearly the runoff, glad you were alright. I was able to complete comp school at Arizona Motorsports Park this weekend without a car. Not the most fun way to do it, but I'm glad to have gotten it out of the way.
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Oct 12, 2020 00:29
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Professor Spatula posted:So day 2 at Daytona has been a big improvement. We were able to get in car instructors as long as both people agreed. At first, there weren’t any extra instructors and we had two students in our group. Fortunately, our instructor’s dad was hanging out and also a certified instructor. As a new driver I recommend not upgrading brakes or tires because better equipment has a much smaller gap between "complaining" and "failing." You can feel and hear a pair of all season tires start to let go as you understeer. You can feel a set of oem pads progressively fade. Real track equipment goes pretty much straight from "totally fine" to "your car is halfway inside a wall" without much in between. Cup 2s, for instance, won't make any squeal until you're in a power slide and at that point, you better know what you're doing. More grip also means you're going faster through corners and braking later, so you have less margin. Higher boiling point brake fluid might be good though.
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Oct 12, 2020 03:51
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Strongly disagree. Brakes are a safety item and “whoops, your pads stop working at 800F” is not something that you “work up to”. Most 200TW tires will still sing at you when you’re approaching the limit of adhesion.
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Oct 12, 2020 04:27
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I'd be surprised if the stock pads on a Hellcat are going to glass during an HPDE. If anything, I'd expect them to fade pretty linearly. The Cup 2 story is definitely from personal experience.
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Oct 12, 2020 04:41
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Normally I'd agree but Daytona's roval is a bit unusual. With the power and weight of a Hellcat and the super long "straight" on the oval portion, I would expect nearly any brake setup to get absolutely hammered.
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Oct 12, 2020 06:16
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when the sticker says "707hp" on it, i'm extremely skeptical of any oem setup being reliable past one, maybe two, 130+ mph to 50 mph braking event
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Oct 12, 2020 07:02
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This is a dumb question, maybe requires calculus, and doesn’t really apply to racing but: if you were to say brake from 140-50 over a much longer time vs a racing style brake which would put more heat into the system?
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Oct 12, 2020 07:06
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Virgil Vox posted:This is a dumb question, maybe requires calculus, and doesn’t really apply to racing but: if you were to say brake from 140-50 over a much longer time vs a racing style brake which would put more heat into the system? The amount of energy you convert should be the same. You're still slowing the same mass the same amount with friction. If the brakes get larger for the upgraded setup that will cause them to increase in temp less for the same amount of energy input. This is assume a spherical cow in a frictionless void math though. The racing brakes will just take the high heat and keep working, and cool off faster. +1 for upgrade the brakes on the hellcat, but also I'd keep running the stock tires. Or at least don't buy slicks or slick like tires out of the gate. They'll whisper "you got this" into your ear until you very suddenly don't.
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Oct 12, 2020 12:45
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I'm going to agree with Phone and others here with a note. Don't go straight to full on race stuff, it'll just cover up your mistakes and make you sloppy as well as possibly getting you in trouble. A 200TW tire, intermediate pad (hawk blue/hps or similar) and high temp brake fluid will hold up better to track use and be safer. I've seen plenty of people jump from all seasons to slicks and it's scary, baby steps are better.
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Oct 12, 2020 12:57
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Phone posted:when the sticker says "707hp" on it, i'm extremely skeptical of any oem setup being reliable past one, maybe two, 130+ mph to 50 mph braking event Ahem....717  I didn't notice any brake fade during my sessions; my hardest braking was probably coming off the oval into the bus stop. I was coming off the oval at about 145 and braking at the 300 marker down to about 65 for the turn in to the bus stop. The stock tires carried the weight of the car around the turn pretty well, starting to make noise but no loss of traction. Had to deal with a little rain during a couple sessions and almost overcorrected turn 1 into the wall. For tires, I was mostly thinking about upgrading to a mid tread summer tire; got a few recommendations from the more advanced drivers. I daily the car and live in Central Florida so that should be a pretty functional upgrade. I'm not at the point of having to tow stuff to the track with me and swap out tires....yet.
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Oct 12, 2020 14:15
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First track day, roval, 707 horspower, rain. Welp, you got all the hard poo poo out of the way, good luck with your f1 career in a month  GJ keeping it on the track, bet it was fun as hell.
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Oct 12, 2020 14:42
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Professor Spatula posted:starting to make noise but no loss of traction. Any all season is going to make a lot of noise before you get to the limits of the tire, so don't be afraid of the noise. KillHour fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Oct 12, 2020 |
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Oct 12, 2020 14:45
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Virgil Vox posted:This is a dumb question, maybe requires calculus, and doesn’t really apply to racing but: if you were to say brake from 140-50 over a much longer time vs a racing style brake which would put more heat into the system? Depends on what you define as "the system". Agreed with previous where yes, the total amount of heat generated is the same... but distribution of the heat changes. Like, when the caliper piston is pressed against the pad with however much force, it has much better heat transfer from the pad then when it's retracted and maybe sometimes touching but sometimes not.
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Oct 12, 2020 15:50
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it's not a closed system, so it's not appropriate to throw a energy in = energy out equation at it; there's also the whole thing with time dependencies, etc dragging on the brakes and extending the braking zone will have more heat over time in the system versus a shorter but with a higher peak temp idk, the best (read: dumbest) analogy i can come up with is touching a hot stove for a fraction of a second versus hovering your hand over it for several seconds (it's a bad analogy im trying to delete it)
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Oct 12, 2020 16:05
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Also, heat will transfer faster at a higher temperature differential. It takes about 571,000 Joules to slow a 3500 lb car from 60 mph no matter whether you have Autozone budget single pistons or a Wilwood set. If you have 5 such braking events in a 2 minute lap that’s an average of about 24 kW of power/heat. That energy goes into your brakes and is turned into heat that must be dissipated. The temperature of the brake components will rise until the rate of heat transfer equals the rate of heat generation. To work on the track, you can lower temperature at which this equilibrium occurs by increasing the rate of heat transfer at all temperatures with more cooling/area from a bigger rotor/ducting, or making the components simply survive at the higher temps with upgraded pads/rotors, or both.
i own every Bionicle fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Oct 12, 2020 |
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Oct 12, 2020 16:19
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quote:We finally got the bill from the fence that you damaged out at the West Track event in October (attached).  Remember kids, track insurance might be worth it even if you're driving a turdbox of a car... also, it turns out that even if you have a dumb Miata it might be a lot more expensive than you figured if you need to reshell it or replace an expensive wing, two quarter panels, a door, bumper, headlight, headlight bucket, and chainlink fence. Looking at roughly $6k all said and done. I hear COTA barriers are mega expensive. BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 19:46
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BlackMK4 posted:Looking at roughly $6k all said and done. That's almost exactly the cost of my door shell + suspension arms + bent rear 1/4 + wheel hit at AMP! This is good to know, especially since track insurance is one of the things I'd be looking to skip with a dedicated (cheaper) track car. So long as I'm taking a 5-6hr road trip to events and only having parking for 1 car, I'm planning on sticking with the SS for the foreseeable future. After 11 days, my RS4s are shot, though: I have some outside shoulder chunking with bits of steel cords visible. I'm not sure whether to add more camber & caster to the car and move up to NT01s or just get another set of RS4s (but 10mm narrower, as 265/40-18 is the only 18" size that currently exists).
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Nov 4, 2020 20:25
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11 days on your RS4s is insanely awesome tire life, imo. Run them things forever. The NT01 isn't THAT much quicker and you can definitely still overheat them. Your situation makes me think even more, it would suck to take someone else out, but suck even worse in the form of financial restitution. I don't normally run DE anyway, but I'm definitely leaving a lot more space than I used to from now on.
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Nov 4, 2020 20:28
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How much does track day insurance typically cost?
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Nov 4, 2020 20:31
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Few hundred dollars and they usually have a 10% deductible, iirc.
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Nov 4, 2020 20:32
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RLI for me is $220/weekend (up to 3 days at the same facility) on $34k insured with 15% deductible. It's not cheap, but it's easier than either not tracking a newish car at all or risking a big loss. Also, nothing about this hobby is cheap. edit: also, it's for your car and track damage only. Liability is on you. heffray fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 20:37
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Thanks, that’s honestly cheaper than I thought it would be. Yeah motor sports is so goddamn expensive. Entry fees, tires, brakes, it all adds up. poo poo even a couple tanks of gas and an oil change is easily a hundred bucks. One of my other hobbies is RC airplanes and people like to gawk at how expensive it seems like it is, but even the biggest and nicest gas powered planes you are likely to see at an event are less than the cheapest car you will see at the average track day.
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Nov 4, 2020 20:53
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I've spent a lot of time working on other people's race cars and supporting them at tracks. I race bicycles.
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Nov 4, 2020 21:45
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