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Trojan Kaiju posted:The amount of times the same player has tried to point out that Spiritual Weapon is concentration only to be corrected because no it is not but the nigh identical but objectively worse Mordenkainen's Sword actually is concentration... Ha, I hadn't known about Mordenkainen's Sword, that's hilarious. It's a full action to cast instead of a bonus action, it's 7th level, and it does 3d10 force damage on hit. Spiritual Weapon is a bonus action to cast and does 1d8+spellcasting modifier force damage...but it scales, if you cast it at 6th level then it does 3d8+mod force damage. By the time you're slinging 7th-level spells, your modifier will be, what, +6 or so? I feel like Mordenkainen's Sword is a pretty bad spell even without the existence of Spiritual Weapon (one of the best cleric spells of the early levels), but putting them side-by-side, the difference is pretty stark.
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Nov 6, 2020 16:24
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I hope Tasha's ports back what they're doing for Aberrant Mind and the other new Sorcerer subclass and gives the other subclasses more spells that they autoget as they level. If sorcerers have to work with a smaller spell-list, at the very least a bit more to play with out of those choices would be neat, especially when things drop to one spell per level after ten.  Also pretty excited to see what they're doing with those class-specific items. Martial-locked magic items really do seem like a fun place to go, people in here have mentioned before that Fighters should have more enchanted equipment to balance them out and I've come to agree with that.
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Nov 6, 2020 19:51
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The basis for martial classes should be Greek heroes who were loaded down with magical artifacts or occasionally divine heritage that manifested more in a stabby way than a magicy way
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Nov 6, 2020 20:39
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Just give us a goddamn Psion WotC I can only wait so long
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Nov 6, 2020 20:39
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agree w/ "concentration's a good mechanic but like everything else in 5E the nitty gritty of its application is almost completely arbitrary" which is on brand for dungeons and dragons; maybe they did it on purpose
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Nov 6, 2020 20:42
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Froghammer posted:Just give us a goddamn Psion WotC Please no
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Nov 6, 2020 20:43
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i don’t trust wotc with psionics because i remember 3.5
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Nov 6, 2020 20:48
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AnEdgelord posted:The basis for martial classes should be Greek heroes who were loaded down with magical artifacts or occasionally divine heritage that manifested more in a stabby way than a magicy way Is it wrong to counter with Beowulf, a man who could do crazy poo poo just because? We tried magical bling town in 3e and literally no one liked it.
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Nov 6, 2020 20:50
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psionics have literally never been good in actual D&D rules, the pre-wotc stuff was hilariously awful and the psionic classes in 4E were better but still irritating and bad (4E peaked with PHB2 from a class/ability design perspective imo)
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Nov 6, 2020 20:52
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2nd edition psionics were good because they took the time to do a whole book with detailed powers, then put out two good settings that integrated psionics fully (dark sun and spelljammer). Doing it right means doing it ground up with a full power list. They keep trying to do it on the cheap by just reskinning other class powers and its lame.
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Nov 6, 2020 20:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:2nd edition psionics were good because they took the time to do a whole book with detailed powers, then put out two good settings that integrated psionics fully (dark sun and spelljammer). No. I own that book, and most of the powers have poo poo like a chance to disintegrate yourself if you roll badly. The problem with psionics is that it's always struggled to differentiate itself from wizards, and a fair amount of the wizard spell list is based on "psionics" anyway like telekinesis and detect thoughts.
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Nov 6, 2020 20:59
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Any spell list has a bunch of lovely spells on it (especially in prior editions!). It's still the better overall model, as opposed to trying to graft on UA after UA.
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Nov 6, 2020 21:02
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Soul knife rogue still looks cool
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Nov 6, 2020 21:04
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Declan MacManus posted:i don’t trust wotc with psionics because i remember 3.5 3.5 psionics was fine except for the nova problem which 5e doesn’t care about anyway
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Nov 6, 2020 21:07
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Arivia posted:3.5 psionics was fine except for the nova problem which 5e doesn’t care about anyway "Fine" is a strong term. However, Psionics were no more broken than just generic magic was. Properly built full casters of either the psionic or magical stripe were absurdly overpowered. Most Psions had nothing on a well built DMM: Cleric
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Nov 6, 2020 21:10
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Madmarker posted:"Fine" is a strong term. However, Psionics were no more broken than just generic magic was. Properly built full casters of either the psionic or magical stripe were absurdly overpowered. Most Psions had nothing on a well built DMM: Cleric Thrallherd would like a word. The thing about psionics are that most of its big tricks basically work as advertised (action spam) or are in the one book (torc+bestow power for infinite power points) whereas a good mage or cleric you have to ignore the designers pushing you toward damage/healing spells and do almost literally anything else. You can roll up a wizard with planar binding and have a personal army of demons, but the designers are on record as saying magic missile is the best 1st level spell. Its telling that Complete Psionic nerfed a bunch of inconsequential poo poo for no reason while mages just kept getting buffs. 3e D&D had so much cognitive dissonance it wasn't even funny.
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Nov 6, 2020 22:17
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The thing about psionics is that they are integral to very popular d&d settings that people want to play around in and as long as thats true then psionics needs to be in the game in some form regardless of d&d's track record at implementing them. Really Psions/Mystics should have been a core class from day one so that they could have been properly integrated and balanced with the existing classes rather than having psionics be something that is half-assedly tacked on afterwards. I also think you could have done a thing where Monks are the martial psionic class and Psions/Mystics are the caster psionics class.
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Nov 6, 2020 23:19
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AnEdgelord posted:The thing about psionics is that they are integral to very popular d&d settings that people want to play around in and as long as thats true then psionics needs to be in the game in some form regardless of d&d's track record at implementing them. Yeah, this I agree with totally. That's kinda what I was aiming at with referencing 2e -- it was still an add-on then, not wholly integrated, but at least they whole-assed it instead of half-assing it, and fully integrated it ground-up with two major settings. You're right though, doing it in the PHB from the start would be best. Oh well, a note for 6e. edit: quote:I also think you could have done a thing where Monks are the martial psionic class and Psions/Mystics are the caster psionics class. This could still happen in 5e in a setting book. Release Dark Sun as a new setting and bam, in dark sun there are psychic core class monks and mystic core class psions, they have x abilities, other subclasses are allowed as per [ ]. In theory. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Nov 6, 2020 |
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Nov 6, 2020 23:21
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I never understood monks getting put in the "psionic" category other than that because they have pseudo magical powers that aren't wizardry, involve worshipping anything, or involve plants, they must be psychic.
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Nov 6, 2020 23:26
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A lot of "psionic" powers in 2nd edition were body control type things. Basically replace "chi" with "psychic energy / willpower" and it tracks.
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Nov 6, 2020 23:30
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Glagha posted:I never understood monks getting put in the "psionic" category other than that because they have pseudo magical powers that aren't wizardry, involve worshipping anything, or involve plants, they must be psychic. It was a dodge to get around putting them in some orientalist horseshit like a "chi" category, which I guarantee a lot of people were expecting. It works okay if you mentally replace the power source name with like "Self". Ardents are powered by the strength of their emotions, Psions and Battleminds tap into the force within and direct it out, monks rigorously train their mind and body to unlock the potential it truly possesses. Everyone focused on unlocking stuff that was inside them in the first place. Of course Self doesn't have a thirty year history so it's Psionic. Also Sorcerer would be in there I guess.
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Nov 6, 2020 23:34
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AnEdgelord posted:The thing about psionics is that they are integral to very popular d&d settings that people want to play around in and as long as thats true then psionics needs to be in the game in some form regardless of d&d's track record at implementing them. I disagree with the underlying notion that psionics even need to be a separate "power source" with completely separate mechanics or w/e from spellcasting, but I also wouldn't care if they cut one or both of the two different Charisma-based blaster mage classes in the PHB to make room for a Psion
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Nov 6, 2020 23:48
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Baku posted:I disagree with the underlying notion that psionics even need to be a separate "power source" with completely separate mechanics or w/e from spellcasting, but I also wouldn't care if they cut one or both of the two different Charisma-based blaster mage classes in the PHB to make room for a Psion The only problem I see with that is in Dark Sun where the fact that psionics is a separate power source is integral to the setting in ways that are difficult to untangle without the whole thing collapsing. Capital M Magic killed the world and, in searching for a replacement, capital P Psionics has come to replace it in everyday use for normal people.
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Nov 6, 2020 23:57
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Psionics being a separate competitor to magic is also like, illithids' whole thing
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Nov 6, 2020 23:59
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It does seem extremely weird that Baldur's Gate 3's whole thing seems to be about mind flayers but that they didn't try to capitalize on that in the books in some way. Even just a small nod to it with some subclasses or something.
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Nov 7, 2020 00:13
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ArchRanger posted:It does seem extremely weird that Baldur's Gate 3's whole thing seems to be about mind flayers but that they didn't try to capitalize on that in the books in some way. Even just a small nod to it with some subclasses or something. There's a Faerun-themed MTG expansion and tie-in book coming out next year, I'd be surprised if they didn't touch on it there since the game is technically canon I think?
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Nov 7, 2020 00:16
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ArchRanger posted:It does seem extremely weird that Baldur's Gate 3's whole thing seems to be about mind flayers but that they didn't try to capitalize on that in the books in some way. Even just a small nod to it with some subclasses or something. Remember when Mearls was doing the circuit to push BG3 and said that changes to the Ranger in that game would be adopted by D&D and Crawford tweeted "no they won't" within a few hours?
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Nov 7, 2020 00:16
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change my name posted:Psionics being a separate competitor to magic is also like, illithids' whole thing It also lead to a lot of neat interactions if its done ground up and integrated fully, e.g., detect.magic vs detect psionics, etc.
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Nov 7, 2020 00:24
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It literally took the 5e team years to create a new class. I would not have hope for a psion class anytime soon, and quite frankly every time the D&D team wanders off into the wilderness to create a new magic system it's usually some kind of weird balance abomination like Truenaming or 3e psionics.theironjef posted:Remember when Mearls was doing the circuit to push BG3 and said that changes to the Ranger in that game would be adopted by D&D and Crawford tweeted "no they won't" within a few hours? I am 100% sure this was due to the 4e errata fiasco, as the lessons from 4e that the 5e team took away wasn't "what if we took the ideas that were good, like powers for everyone and monster roles" but that they tried too hard to make a perfectly balanced game and what people really wanted out of 4e was the AEDU mechanic for warlocks only and a few spells. I can't explain it either.
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Nov 7, 2020 02:04
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The characters in the game I GM were curious about how Keraptis had offered to give them an adventure in ancient Netheril. They hate the guy, they get that he's evil, but they think his interest in Netheril is more important than whatever lies in White Plume Mountain. Some sessions ago they were able to get some intel on the location of a powerful Netherise artifact, and now they want to find it before Keraptis can: White Plume Mountain can wait. The change in heart came when they were unable to convince a group of knights not to trust Keraptis, or to head them off, and now they worry that Keraptis will offer the knights the job he was offering the party, and that they won't be able to refuse. I love this, so I hope this place I'm making pays off.  Getting some ideas together for the engine room of the ruin of an old floating city that has since smashed into the underdark and now lays teetering over the edge of a maw that leads into the abyss. It's powered by a mythal that's been split between four big orbs in order to keep it contained. Two of the orbs power a mechanism that causes the city to float. The other two can be used to power one of two orbs that acts as an immovable rod on a gigantic scale. The orbs lie in the middle of chains that loop back on themselves through two pairs of portals. One chain controls the X axis and one controls the Y axis, and they can be switched or turned off completely as needed.  There's a pretty easy puzzle in here, and the possibility to end this in so many ways. I've thought of some ways, but the players may steer the whole thing in a completely different direction: To have the structure fall into the abyss, accidentally or not on their part, with the opportunity to make an escape in freefall while winged fiends amass inside the structure. To unleash the magic bound inside of the artifact, which is a living breathing mythal that has been split across four orbs to keep it controlled. There's a way to bring the parts together and release it, to be its own beast. There's a way to get the old city up and running, then navigate it through the way it came to get it back into the skies, but the journey is much longer than the teleport into the ruin's area was. All of these pathways will be laid bare before the characters. One of the characters is a do gooding druid. One of the characters is a lazy "take the shortest route to solve the problem" type (and I don't mean that in a bad way). One of the characters is an archaeologist who gets to see this ancient magic up and running. One guy is a very slow-to-act long-to-think type. Each of these paths comes with its own cost and the opportunity to discuss an outcome, which could bring out some of the differences in the party. The dick move is to kick the thing into the abyss and be done with it, but there's the possibility of either having a floating castle or a locus of magic friend who could come up later. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Nov 7, 2020 |
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Nov 7, 2020 04:41
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theironjef posted:It was a dodge to get around putting them in some orientalist horseshit like a "chi" category, which I guarantee a lot of people were expecting. If I remember right, they were actually planning on doing exactly that, but they were having trouble with fleshing out the "ki" power source, so they just gave up on doing ki as a separate thing and instead folded monks into the psionic power source.
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Nov 7, 2020 05:04
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All the psionic classes sound like different aspects of jedi to me, taken to a farther extreme. Have any of the star wars RPGs represented the jedi in a way that feels meaningfully distinct from magic?
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Nov 7, 2020 05:19
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W.T. Fits posted:If I remember right, they were actually planning on doing exactly that, but they were having trouble with fleshing out the "ki" power source, so they just gave up on doing ki as a separate thing and instead folded monks into the psionic power source. Heh. That makes a lot of sense actually. They did the right thing for a dumb reason, classic WOTC. Five bucks says there's half a Samurai defender class floating around in some folder.
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Nov 7, 2020 05:22
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will i hate myself if i run Curse of Strahd as my first Big Boy Campaign? i've run a couple of oneshots before, and played in a different campaign, but CoS seems...intimidating. I love the mood and story of it all though.
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Nov 7, 2020 05:59
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El Fideo posted:All the psionic classes sound like different aspects of jedi to me, taken to a farther extreme. Have any of the star wars RPGs represented the jedi in a way that feels meaningfully distinct from magic? Fantasy Flight's Force and Destiny is pretty good because it assumes that everyone in the party can do Force poo poo.
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Nov 7, 2020 06:25
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I'd be fine with the Sorcerer being replaced with a Psion with specialties as bloodlines. Sorcerer is in a real weird place, and while I'd rather Warlocks get the cut...the community would riot if they lost their favorite dip class.
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Nov 7, 2020 06:34
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Glans Dillzig posted:will i hate myself if i run Curse of Strahd as my first Big Boy Campaign? i've run a couple of oneshots before, and played in a different campaign, but CoS seems...intimidating. I love the mood and story of it all though. It's a big adventure with some interlocking parts, but I ran it my first time DMing in more than a decade and had a blast. There's a lot of good advice out there, I followed this series, personally: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDBehindT...ntent=post_body But if you decide to, you can run the adventure straight as written for an easier and more simple good time.
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Nov 7, 2020 06:45
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Azza Bamboo posted:The characters in the game I GM were curious about how Keraptis had offered to give them an adventure in ancient Netheril. They hate the guy, they get that he's evil, but they think his interest in Netheril is more important than whatever lies in White Plume Mountain. Quick note: Netherese flying cities ran off of mythallar, not mythals. Your whole idea works fine, just want to keep the name separate unless you want the PCs patching it up with elven high magic or vice-versa.
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Nov 7, 2020 10:20
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I've already used the word mythal, so I guess that this version of Faerun has no distinction: big ball of magic is a mythal whether it was made by elves or by humans using ancient serpent magic. Edit: that said, it was a high elf quest giver that gave the information out, maybe they were just explaining the quest in terms they understood. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Nov 7, 2020 |
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Nov 7, 2020 10:53
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Devorum posted:I'd be fine with the Sorcerer being replaced with a Psion with specialties as bloodlines. Sorcerer is in a real weird place, and while I'd rather Warlocks get the cut...the community would riot if they lost their favorite dip class. They should have kept refining Mystic tbh
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Nov 7, 2020 17:29
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