|
Nothing personal to anyone in this thread, but I no longer click on any links. That which stains my browser stains my soul. I want my history to be nothing but pure and honest kitten videos, WordReference.com and looking up Magic cards from 1995 that I barely remember.Cpt_Obvious posted:The obvious conclusion of Liberalism is madness. None should be surprised. King Lear clearly wasn't talking about his daughter's selfishness and cruelty, he was talking about 21st century neoliberalism. The bard was truly a visionary.
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2020 01:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 18:41 |
|
|
Sorry for the double post, but while watching something totally non-political someone brought up that Penn & Teller episode about gun control. We talked about this a tiny bit before, but hearing it was a bit like being kicked in the stomach. I kind of felt bad for the people talking who were generally decent but clearly naïve and taken in, but I can only imagine what kind of biased accounts, misleading "statistics" and logical fallacies were in that show. I would never watch such claptrap, of course, but if anyone wants to bring up points from it that we can mock I would appreciate hte catharsis.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 03:49
|
|
|
Will the Libertarians clear something up for me, which is worse in your opinion, the Republican echo chamber or the Democrat echo chamber on these forums? Im leaning towards the 'Democrat' echo chamber.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 03:54
|
|
|
Ascythian posted:Will the Libertarians clear something up for me, which is worse in your opinion, the Republican echo chamber or the Democrat echo chamber on these forums? lmao
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 05:02
|
|
|
*Lionel Richie voice* He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 05:06
|
|
|
The echochamber on these forums is to the Democratic Party as Exarchia is to Syriza.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 05:07
|
|
|
Weatherman posted:*Lionel Richie voice* He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack! Who's rereg is this, do we think?
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 05:19
|
|
|
Ascythian posted:Will the Libertarians clear something up for me, which is worse in your opinion, the Republican echo chamber or the Democrat echo chamber on these forums? When did we get a Republican echo chamber? I thought we sent all the conservatives to the gulags.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 05:25
|
|
|
this scene, but for real https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXMcbhn6Np0
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 05:26
|
|
|
I don't think that he's a libertarian, he hasn't said a word about child brides yet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 05:28
|
|
|
Ascythian posted:Will the Libertarians clear something up for me, which is worse in your opinion, the Republican echo chamber or the Democrat echo chamber on these forums? Welcome home friend
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 07:18
|
|
|
Jrod sense is tingling...
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 07:36
|
|
|
JustJeff88 posted:Sorry for the double post, but while watching something totally non-political someone brought up that Penn & Teller episode about gun control. We talked about this a tiny bit before, but hearing it was a bit like being kicked in the stomach. I kind of felt bad for the people talking who were generally decent but clearly naïve and taken in, but I can only imagine what kind of biased accounts, misleading "statistics" and logical fallacies were in that show. I used to quite like the show for some reason, I'm not really sure why. I think it's about as close as I got to edgelord atheism? But yeah the argumentation style is basically fox news bad but for a slightly different politcal position. I remember they had this guy who was a black confederate re-enacter to say "actually it was about states rights" or something. They did sometimes come down with actually good points, but they also came to some pretty loving stupid ones.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 08:52
|
|
|
Is left-libertarianism A Thing, or some fancy hogwash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 09:11
|
|
|
Yes, it's the actual good and coherent libertarianism.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 09:23
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Is left-libertarianism A Thing, or some fancy hogwash Yes, I'd call myself a libertarian socialist. It is far more common than the right-libertarian age of consent obsessed creeps in Europe.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 09:35
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:
They were good when they talked about stuff like mediums and ufo-watchers because they didn't mock the people who believed in those things but the people who exploited them. But whenever they talked about politics it got real bad. The exception was the episode about the death penalty where they admitted that they while they didn't support it they could understand that people who had close ones murdered would support it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 10:39
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Is left-libertarianism A Thing, or some fancy hogwash Kropotkin is probably the intellectual forerunner of the open source technolibertarian brand, because he was 100% about "and then we will have steam engines that make so many tools that it won't be worth putting a price on tools" and if he was around in the 2000s he'd definitely be going on about 3D printing bread and hacking the planet, but he still saw it as something that needed to be done as communities participating in mutual aid rather than by rational self-interested individuals. That's really where libertarianism lost its way in some places and became what the Libertarian Party is today, when the assumed natural unit of society stopped being 'a community' and started being an individual.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 12:12
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Is left-libertarianism A Thing, or some fancy hogwash It is anarchocommunism for people who are afraid of the word communist.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 12:23
|
|
|
I don't see most Libertarians as that deep or philosophical, just two overlapping circles of 'Taxation is theft' and 'communism is bad'. There's a few funny variations in there. Like some of them are fine paying taxes on things that directly benefit them and only them. They have this Ferengi like attitude where Profit is everything and only value things that enrich them, but they're willing to be really inconsistent to if it benefits them personally. Then the other overlapping circle is all the Libertarians that aren't so much Libertarian as they are anti socialism, freak out about anything they interpret as 'Communist'. These are the ones that bring up Venezuela a lot and how many bajillion people died under communism. The only thing they seem charitable and selfless about is stopping communism. I find it ironic that they'll always have a lot of examples to show how they think communism is bad and doesn't work, but get rather pedantic when you ask them about all the large successful minarchist nations compared to communist ones. They also don't give a poo poo about the NAP but perhaps because they don't see people who support socialism as deserving of existence. OH, and of course all the lay scholars of the constitution who think the document is perfect to be taken entirely literally, and any kind of interpretation outside their narrow view of it is heresy. I've often wondered about the idea of an alternate reality where Thomas Jefferson from earth 214 fills the constition with all sorts of genuinely progressive language and protections like ensuring everyone on us soil gets universal access to Healthcare and education etc. Would they still defend the document as this absolute and ironclad covenant if it wasn't all about guns and poo poo? Because ultimately they interpret the document like an rear end in a top hat sibling saying poo poo like "Dad told me it's okay for me to punch you in the arm, he totally said it!" self serving nonsense.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 16:19
|
|
|
Panfilo posted:OH, and of course all the lay scholars of the constitution who think the document is perfect to be taken entirely literally, and any kind of interpretation outside their narrow view of it is heresy. I've often wondered about the idea of an alternate reality where Thomas Jefferson from earth 214 fills the constition with all sorts of genuinely progressive language and protections like ensuring everyone on us soil gets universal access to Healthcare and education etc. Would they still defend the document as this absolute and ironclad covenant if it wasn't all about guns and poo poo? Because ultimately they interpret the document like an rear end in a top hat sibling saying poo poo like "Dad told me it's okay for me to punch you in the arm, he totally said it!" self serving nonsense. I am on a committee at my place of work that represents what is in fact the majority of the employees, but this majority is the low-rank employees who are mostly ignored despite working just as hard, poorly paid and has no stability. We had a meeting yesterday where our chair, who I respect a great deal, proposed the idea of having a "Bill of Rights" (his words) for our constituency. While it was a well-meaning idea, I rather firmly insisted that we not use that term nor have that kind of mentality. The only other non-American in the meeting (French person) agreed with me and everyone else (all Americans) was much more favourable of the idea. Probably a cultural thing, but for this very reason above I did not want some kind of founding document for fear that is fetishised and used as a straitjacket instead of a sort of "list of values". My idea was to concoct a genuine list of policy changes and improvements; something practical rather than moral. I think that it was in this thread where someone said that ?Australia? never had a constitution of its own for that very reason, and France has rewritten theirs a number of times. The US Constitution is not really different from the Bible or the Torah; it's a collection of some very well-meaning ideas and some very confusing ones that are dated, not terribly relevant to the modern world in many ways and should be interpreted with a grain of salt the size of a cricket ball.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 16:43
|
|
|
It should be interpreted with 64.8mg of salt like the rest of the world.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 16:46
|
|
|
I mean lol they threw in 'alcohol is illegal' then 'uh you know what nevermind' in this binding ironclad document. But then it gets propped up as some arbitrary excuse for why we can't have universal health care, why taxes are illegal and minimum wage is bad 
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 17:11
|
|
|
The amendments are so important, that's why they're amendments, and not in the original document.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 17:13
|
|
|
So, it seems the the margin by which Trump is losing in swing states the went blue is WAY below Jo Jorgensen's voting totals. I'm not a Biden fan, but I guess we owe our NAP-loving friends...thanks? Here's hoping the chuds go on ignoring you instead of rolling libertarians into some Soros/Qanon plot!
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 17:19
|
|
|
Libertarians are big fans of self ownership.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 17:22
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:Yes, the original libertarians came about when people could plainly see that they were oppressed equally by their landlord and employer as they were by the government, because all three were the same Duke. When you lay it out like that it becomes clear how modern US libertarianism attracts people who aren't oppressed by landlords and employers. Either because they just rake in cash like tech people, or they themselves landlords and employers, or they are lucratively self-employed, or they just live in vans and eat bugs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 19:33
|
|
|
Sephyr posted:So, it seems the the margin by which Trump is losing in swing states the went blue is WAY below Jo Jorgensen's voting totals. In all likelihood many were probably protest votes just because of how completely and utterly foul Trump is. Most of their downticket votes were probably still republican.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2020 20:24
|
|
|
Dirk the Average posted:In all likelihood many were probably protest votes just because of how completely and utterly foul Trump is. Most of their downticket votes were probably still republican. Adding to that, the democrat party had the greens removed from the ballot in more than one state.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2020 17:13
|
|
|
Tubgoat posted:the democrat party
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2020 17:37
|
|
|
Golbez posted:Don't do this.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2020 18:50
|
|
|
unironically using right wing messaging to own the dems? that's praxis.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2020 23:14
|
|
|
Oh, I'm sorry, do you type out Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea or do you just say North Korea? Letting right-wingers name their organisations after the opposite of what they are, now that's praxis. Would airquotes around "democratic" make you feel better?
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2020 23:17
|
|
|
WTF is going on in here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2020 23:25
|
|
|
Brute Squad posted:unironically using right wing messaging to own the dems? that's praxis. this is some 2004 rear end quibbling folks nobody cares anymore
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2020 23:41
|
|
|
oh nevermind.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2020 00:33
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2020 00:37
|
|
|
does anyone actually believe even the dumbest, most baby brained, people hear 'democrat party' and go 'woah I bet they're not democratIC, that's so hosed up!!!! I better join the Republicans, they have Republic in their name!'
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2020 00:38
|
|
|
Everyone here knows what is meant when someone says democrat party, don't be pedants.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2020 01:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 18:41 |
|
|
Who What Now posted:Everyone here knows what is meant when someone says democrat party, don't be pedants. We can't just kick out all the libertarians.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2020 01:04
|
|