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Bobby Deluxe posted:One of my favourite things about the last day or so has been US outlets doing zero research into the UK and assuming that we are all delighted about the gosh dang cheeto being booted out of the whitehouse: We are? a bit?
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Nov 9, 2020 00:57
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NotJustANumber99 posted:We are? a bit? http://twitter.com/thehill/status/1325161871754858496?s=19
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Nov 9, 2020 01:03
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ahh. I actually did the same thing the other day. I live in a quite american bit of the country, An airbase or nukes or something, lots of big american cars about and accents in the village budgens. I heard fireworks and excitedly remarked about the americans celebrating trumps downfall as my brother rolled his eyes at me and reminded me it was just bonfire night and noone could go to a real one.
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Nov 9, 2020 01:07
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I embedded the wrong tweet, but the Hill seems to think the 'fireworks reported in London' are about Trump, and not because the 5th November annual dog scaring contest lasts about a week. already deleted
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Nov 9, 2020 01:12
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Guavanaut posted:So it seems to me like the best route wouldn't be Self ID, but just sacking off the whole idea of sex on birth certificates, it's the only part which relates to a supposedly innate characteristic of the infant anyway, and stands out as that, and it makes things difficult for clinicians in cases of ambiguous birth sex, which pushes for surgical intervention which is now widely considered a bad thing. Yeah, I don't know the exact proportion of trans and non-binary people's views on this but this is definitely a common point I've seen from those I've followed online etc. Like, even in the wider context of what to put on forms - e.g. Male/Female/Other is like, less bad than just Male or Female, but there's always the wider question of why do you need to ask for someone's sex/gender in the first place. Is it to provide different services to people with different body parts? Is it so that you know what pronouns/title to use? What changing facilities to give them the key to? Or is it so that you can target the individual for advertising based on assumptions of who they are as a person? These may require different approaches. (For example, in the last case, where the correct approach is to gently caress off.) Often it's just shoved on a form without thinking, because someone's sex is viewed as so fundamental to a person's identity that there's no way you wouldn't ask it when you sign them up to your services.
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Nov 9, 2020 01:46
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Angepain posted:Yeah, I don't know the exact proportion of trans and non-binary people's views on this but this is definitely a common point I've seen from those I've followed online etc. Like, even in the wider context of what to put on forms - e.g. Male/Female/Other is like, less bad than just Male or Female, but there's always the wider question of why do you need to ask for someone's sex/gender in the first place. Is it to provide different services to people with different body parts? Is it so that you know what pronouns/title to use? What changing facilities to give them the key to? Or is it so that you can target the individual for advertising based on assumptions of who they are as a person? These may require different approaches. (For example, in the last case, where the correct approach is to gently caress off.) Often it's just shoved on a form without thinking, because someone's sex is viewed as so fundamental to a person's identity that there's no way you wouldn't ask it when you sign them up to your services. so that when they turn 18 gillette can send them the properly coloured razor - black or pink, obvs - in the mail
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Nov 9, 2020 02:10
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it's actually so that when the Dastardly Trans Agenda that has captured the government puts its plans into action we know whether to lace your innocent child's school dinners with estrogen or testosterone
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Nov 9, 2020 02:23
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Angepain posted:it's actually so that when the Dastardly Trans Agenda that has captured the government puts its plans into action we know whether to lace your innocent child's school dinners with estrogen or testosterone just put both in everybody's lunch, problem solved btw i super appreciate birth certificate chat because it's something i've never really thought about and completely agree that it's unnecessary
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Nov 9, 2020 02:26
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tonight's episode of the simpsons featured this pub
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Nov 9, 2020 03:23
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Lol that's pretty good
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Nov 9, 2020 04:11
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Failed Imagineer posted:Lol that's pretty good yeah i don't laugh too often at the simpsons these days but that and wankers shortbread got a chuckle
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Nov 9, 2020 04:20
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Dabir posted:already deleted Fireworks in London, Edinburgh as Biden win celebrated abroad Brooke Seipel, 7th Nov 2020 @ 2:34 PM EST posted:In countries across the globe, people reported fireworks and cheering after President-elect Joe Biden was named the winner of the 2020 election on Saturday. Not taking into account the amount of families working three jobs who have to wait until the weekend to have their fireworks anyway.
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Nov 9, 2020 05:17
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I embedded the wrong tweet, but the Hill seems to think the 'fireworks reported in London' are about Trump, and not because the 5th November annual dog scaring contest lasts about a week. To be fair around where I live we’ve had a few fireworks going off here and there, with a decent chunk on the 5th as you’d expect, but there was an enormous increase after the news broke about Biden winning. Could be a coincidence but it did feel like people were celebrating the fall of Trump.
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Nov 9, 2020 05:39
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Bloody germans celebrating bonfire night.
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Nov 9, 2020 09:08
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Angepain posted:but there's always the wider question of why do you need to ask for someone's sex/gender in the first place. And one that stands out in that case was a charity survey I was helping construct that had "gender: male/female/transgender" where I was like hey yo this seems a bit bad, what are you trying to find out here? And what they were trying to find out was gender representation of service users in an inclusive way that was understandable to the general public, which unfortunately includes a bunch of people who react to 'cis' like it's some alien term being foisted on them, but we got it turned into a less terrible question. I had difficulty finding a good style guide at the time from any trans/NB inclusive orgs, and there's always the danger that bad faith actors are putting out wrong style guides, but terfs are generally so transparent in their frothing now that it's generally obvious, and the trolls are so "lol nudge nudge wink wink" now that the entire second page would be racist frog cartoons, but as various different orgs on shoestring budgets are trying to get their heads around now to be less bad you're going to get a bunch of things like this for the foreseeable future: 
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Nov 9, 2020 09:28
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I always thought* the separate question "does your gender identity match your assigned sex at birth y/n" gets around the problem pretty well *fwiw, cishet man over here
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Nov 9, 2020 09:46
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Guavanaut posted:I was thinking about this the other day, and isn't Self ID just for birth certificates, and just extends the existing self ID for driving licences and passports to that area via a streamlined GRC process? Off the top of my head (as in I have no idea if this is why that information is recorded): - Male/female ratio at local and national level is a fairly important demographic measure for long-term planning on education, healthcare, social security and pensions, etc. - On an individual level, early-years healthcare does change slightly depending on physical gender - e.g. slightly different vaccination schedules, different milestones for height and weight, etc - nowhere near as much as it does later in life, but it is still there. Also certain genetic conditions affect only XX or XY chromosomes, but they *probably* check for those based more on symptoms, family history, and so on - I don't think we do blanket genetic testing. - "That's how we've always done it", even though most of the reasons we do it that way are based on no-longer-valid reasons that you've mentioned. It's a situation where if we were planning to *start* recording it, these wouldn't really be valid reasons, but also why - particularly that last one, which is one of the strongest laws of nature in this bloody country - it'd be a gigantic uphill struggle to get them to *stop* doing it.
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Nov 9, 2020 10:07
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mediaphage posted:yeah i don't laugh too often at the simpsons these days but that and wankers shortbread got a chuckle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KtXNz9QVMk This just about killed me when they used to show Mork and Mindy at like 10 o'clock in the morning.
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Nov 9, 2020 10:10
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goddamnedtwisto posted:It's a situation where if we were planning to *start* recording it, these wouldn't really be valid reasons, but also why - particularly that last one, which is one of the strongest laws of nature in this bloody country - it'd be a gigantic uphill struggle to get them to *stop* doing it. Analyzing medical conditions by XX/XY can be helpful, but it can also cause you to miss things out. "Only boys get haemophilia" is >99% true for white British boys, but when you have a girl with haemophilia C it causes doctors to miss things, same as when you assume that sickle cell is a 'Black' disease. But you're right, it's mostly inertia. But all the causes of that inertia like "it's sweet and fitting for boys to be sent to war" and "a woman votes through influencing her husband" are regarded as ridiculous by everyone but the living ham steaks that write letters to the Express, so it's a vestigial organ at most now. The most (modern) Tory argument is that it's also a lot cheaper. GRC and Self ID all cost time and money and constitute a process, whereas not recording something saves time and not doing unnecessary and harmful surgery on infants saves money. It's a bad argument, because that can also be used for just ignoring sex and gender healthcare rather than providing it, but I'm surprised it hasn't come up more in the Parliamentary debate.
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Nov 9, 2020 10:23
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I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that some proportion of the fireworks being let off immediately after the electoral defeat of one of the most powerful countries in the world’s fascist leader are because of said electoral defeat lol
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Nov 9, 2020 10:23
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Nov 9, 2020 10:37
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Angepain posted:Is it to provide different services to people with different body parts? Breast cancer, cervical and prostate screening. Risk stratification for disease - but as we get larger trans populations we will likely get more tailored data with regards to this rather than a straight m/f split. Medically there has to be a distinction between your gender and what actual bits you have. Someone who has transitioned and has surgery is one thing but if you still carry the other sex parts you will have all the associated risks - testicular, ovarian and uterine cancer for example. I would hope that clinicians would not be utter wankers about treating trans patients but it can be really difficult if they don't know the male in front of them still has ovaries as it can change the probable diagnoses.
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Nov 9, 2020 10:39
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goddamnedtwisto posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KtXNz9QVMk  Z the IVth posted:Breast cancer, cervical and prostate screening. Those are both uncommon things, but do present health concerns, and treating them as sex linked leads to the same problem with assuming that sickle cell only happens to Black people, Greeks and Turks get misdiagnosed, and resources are wasted on screening Zulus. But in any case a person's 'blackness' is not something we care about enough to put on a birth certificate, and the places that do tend to be bad, like 80s South Africa and the American South, and you could make the same argument for birth sex, it should be a matter for medical records along with family history.
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Nov 9, 2020 10:48
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Bit late to American 'let me hammer home my heritage' but had some fun over there with that. Did a NYC/Atlanta trip in 2013, and literally the first bar we were in by Hells Kitchen, as soon as the barman clocked my ex-wife's accent he jumped into 'How'r'yes, oim from the old country, so I am', but throughout the next couple of hours kept forgetting to do it until we got halfway through a conversation. Guy was sound and I'm going to tip regardless of whether or not I think he has some connection with a country neither of us come from to the point the ex straight up said to him 'you don't have to put on the accent you know' to which he was all 'the tourists love it'. Ended up all day drinking on St Patricks day the next week in the Vortex/Atlanta, where the staff were all in green/shamrock earrings etc. Sat at the bar next to another couple, who had some giant loud guy in a Boston hat/top on latch on to them. The music was a mix of Pogues/Dropkick Murphys/U2/etc etc til Mumford & Sons come on, and he basically yells 'HEY MUMFORDS, I LOVE THESE GUYS WHAT A GREAT IRISH BAND!' gently caress this guy, I'm a few beers up: 'Hey matey, they're not Irish' OH NO MAN SEE (points at his Boston cap) I'M IRISH, THEY'RE FROM THERE 'That's nice. I'm English, and I'm telling you they're a bunch of rich kids from Kent, outside London. Which is not in Ireland.' YOU'RE WRONG BUDDY Meanwhile the couple he's with are looking this up, and one of the barstaff tells him I'm right as he gets all worked up that how could he wrong. At this stage there's us 2, him, the couple & 2 barstaff so it's like why would you care? I go for a piss. There's a long corridor separating the bogs from the bar, and guess who's coming down it aggressively as I'm going up it. HEY BUDDY ARE YOU REALLY FROM ENGLAND? Yes, London, blah blah (I'm not, but like gently caress am I arsed explaining where Leeds is) I WAS WRONG ABOUT MUMFORDS BUT I AM FROM BOSTON AND I'M IRISH etc etc I just nod and go 'all good'. I genuinely thought he was gonna start on me though, I find it ridiculous how hard these guys hold on to some god knows how many generations ago removed culture.
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Nov 9, 2020 10:50
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I embedded the wrong tweet, but the Hill seems to think the 'fireworks reported in London' are about Trump, and not because the 5th November annual dog scaring contest lasts about a week. Thurston Moore, American guitar genius of Sonic Youth, also seemed to be very excited on Instagram about the fireworks going off in London over the weekend (he has a record shop and presumably lives in London). The comments were mixtures of "Joe Biden is going to be just another flavour of poo poo" and "It's Bonfire Night/Week in the UK, duh!"
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Nov 9, 2020 10:59
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https://twitter.com/deletedbyMPs/status/1325727399712092160?s=19
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Nov 9, 2020 11:01
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 a what kind of relationship
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Nov 9, 2020 11:05
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Fondly remembering when AOC built a brand on growing up calling water municipal corporation soda.
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Nov 9, 2020 11:07
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Oh my god lmaoooooo
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Nov 9, 2020 11:09
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:
They don't like eachother op In libsprek grown up means bad As in "he's a grown up politician with policies for grown ups"
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Nov 9, 2020 11:18
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Starmer is such a patronising twat. We're grown ups, and like big grown ups sometimes we don't agree but we still talk like big grown up grown ups. gently caress off Keir you useless shite
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Nov 9, 2020 11:19
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My neighbor told me he was going to have a grown up conversation with me about the fence. We never have.
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Nov 9, 2020 11:24
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...re_iOSApp_Other
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Nov 9, 2020 11:24
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Guavanaut posted:That's something that always stands distinct from sex/gender though. A woman with CAIS is at risk of testicular cancer even if the clinician doesn't know she has testes, a man with PMDS is at risk of endometriosis even if he doesn't know he has a womb. This will become a problem though as CAIS and PMDS are rare (and in the case of PMDS, very rare). Certainly much rarer than trans people and the number of trans individuals is only going to increase as it gains mainstream acceptance. It's a distinct problem and all the discrimination just makes it that much more difficult when trans people do not feel comfortable to share this information with their doctor. In extremis it's all going to come out anyway when you get stripped for an examination/scan but I'm sure it will lead to preventable delays in care.
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Nov 9, 2020 11:25
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Grown ups polish their brains to a perfect parabolic sheen such that they never have strong opinions about anything. Which is why they never do things like get into fights in the egg aisle about being quiet.
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Nov 9, 2020 11:25
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Z the IVth posted:This will become a problem though as CAIS and PMDS are rare (and in the case of PMDS, very rare). Certainly much rarer than trans people and the number of trans individuals is only going to increase as it gains mainstream acceptance. It's a distinct problem and all the discrimination just makes it that much more difficult when trans people do not feel comfortable to share this information with their doctor. So I have no problem with medical records, as an ongoing developing thing, saying "born male, probably need to check this and that at such and such age, checked lump at 42 and confirmed benign epididymal cyst, etc. etc." but that's a doctor-patient type interaction, nobody else needs to know about their balls. So I think it's more of a thing that should be confined to medical records in the medical sense, and checked periodically by census like religion and ethnicity in the social sense, rather than something that a registration of live birth needs to be concerned with.
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Nov 9, 2020 11:32
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Off the top of my head (as in I have no idea if this is why that information is recorded): I write software for gyms/leisure centres many of which are council run. Accurate demographic data is required to secure their funding. Last year we had to implement a new addition to gender. Ideally we would have implemented a range of choices but due to time restraints and an already creaking legacy codebase we had to settle for 'other' and even then it was a nightmare to implement and caused a load of bugs. It cost the government £36 million to make a Bluetooth app. So fixing this issue across everything is going to take time and a lot of money. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Nov 9, 2020 |
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Nov 9, 2020 11:38
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Mega Comrade posted:I write software for gyms/leisure centres many of which are council run. Accurate demographic data is required to secure their funding. It didn't cost the government 36 million to make a bluetooth app, most of that was just corruption. Also, the answer to 'gyms need accurate demographic data to secure funding' is not 'provide demographic data more accurately' it's 'remove that requirement which has no loving need to exist at all'.
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Nov 9, 2020 11:46
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What's Jess done for Austin to demote her so unceremoniously? https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1325740345355808768
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Nov 9, 2020 11:55
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thespaceinvader posted:It didn't cost the government 36 million to make a bluetooth app, most of that was just corruption. Why do you think the next tech project is going to be cheaper? The government spending ridiculous amounts of money on simply tech projects is a known thing. It didn't start with the covid app. https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2010/07/the_105m_website.html https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/14/ministry-of-defence-failed-computer-system As for your 2nd point. I agree, it shouldn't be needed but it is and that in my opinion won't be changing. The government want more data on its citizens not less. This was true under Blair as well as every tory government since. Facebook knows more about you than the government do and its not something they like. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Nov 9, 2020 |
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Nov 9, 2020 11:56
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