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Do murder plots by NPCs against player characters work exactly like when the player character does it to NPCs?PittTheElder posted:I'm fairly sure it doesn't actually accomplish anything though. Levies are super weak and rout instantly in battle, and I think Combat Width means there's almost no value in bringing huge numbers to a fight. 8k Armored Footmen and 2k Pikemen will crush even the most battle of Battle Popes.
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Nov 8, 2020 12:02
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PittTheElder posted:I'm fairly sure it doesn't actually accomplish anything though. Levies are super weak and rout instantly in battle, and I think Combat Width means there's almost no value in bringing huge numbers to a fight. 8k Armored Footmen and 2k Pikemen will crush even the most battle of Battle Popes. It definitely does, but not in actual combat. What it does is game the AI in that they see the huge numbers and don't like them (because it apparently can't judge quality that well), so they'll try to avoid getting into combat in the first place. This lets you herd enemy stacks around while they try to get to your smaller siege group that is currently chewing through holdings, or you use them to make the enemies abandon sieges at the drop of a hat, turning them completely ineffective. It doesn't score you any war score, but it ensures that the enemy gets nothing while you rack it up in different ways. I managed to holy-war the Pope out of every bit of land by constantly deflecting his (at the time) 12k merc doomstack with a 20k stack of chaff while a few thousand MaA took down the entire region one holding at a time unopposed. It's gamey but it works and it certainly accomplishes things.
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Nov 8, 2020 13:39
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I use my levies for fighting in wars my allies have called me in to. No sense wasting the actual good troops on Count Bumfuck's war for the Duchy of Wherever.
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Nov 8, 2020 16:21
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Tippis posted:It definitely does, but not in actual combat. What it does is game the AI in that they see the huge numbers and don't like them (because it apparently can't judge quality that well), so they'll try to avoid getting into combat in the first place. This lets you herd enemy stacks around while they try to get to your smaller siege group that is currently chewing through holdings, or you use them to make the enemies abandon sieges at the drop of a hat, turning them completely ineffective. It doesn't score you any war score, but it ensures that the enemy gets nothing while you rack it up in different ways. That sounds objectively worse (and far more annoying) then simply having them run up the warscore for you by suiciding their army into you every chance they get.
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Nov 8, 2020 18:42
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:That sounds objectively worse (and far more annoying) then simply having them run up the warscore for you by suiciding their army into you every chance they get. Since what would actually happen is that they'd murder the MaA:s that is actually increasing the warscore, no — it's a fair bit better and also very easy to accomplish. It also gives you something to do while the siege is ticking down.
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Nov 8, 2020 19:31
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Once you get to the third tech level with appropriate buildings, massed MaA will not be killed by anything ever (except other MaA but the AI doesn't understand to mass them soooo). You can walk 10k foot/pike into an army 6-7 times it's size and come out on top. And because of the way the AI evaluates it's chance of winning battles they won't ever stack to that level, they'll just trickle small stacks into you and get wiped. Prior to getting your buildings online you can rely on armored cavalry. The effect isn't as strong but you can still wipe stacks 3-4x bigger than yours. Fighting the pope with MaA stacks is actually the most convenient war of all, because he has the financial wherewithal to feed you 50WS from battles super quickly so you usually only need to finish one seige. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Nov 8, 2020 |
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Nov 8, 2020 20:21
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If MAA are pretty much superior all the time, it would be nice if there was a "raise MAA" button. Seriously why is it all or nothing?
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Nov 8, 2020 20:27
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I don't disagree, but Raise All followed by a control-click move order does that pretty well. I think the reason there isn't a button though is because the devs did not predict how dominant MaA would be. The AI certainly does not seem to know this, hence why they disband their MaA in order to field all of their levies every war (bankrupting themselves in the process).
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Nov 8, 2020 20:31
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Weird thing I just thought of: female-dominated dynasties will naturally have a harder time generating renown, because they have a lower hard limit on how many dynasty members they can produce over time.
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Nov 8, 2020 22:30
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PittTheElder posted:Once you get to the third tech level with appropriate buildings, massed MaA will not be killed by anything ever (except other MaA but the AI doesn't understand to mass them soooo). …aaaaaand right there is why the strategy works: because you don't have 10k foot/pike — only maybe a tenth of that, and with no tech level and appropriate buildings tu support them. And there's a 12k stack coming for you that would kill off (or send at least off to the far side of Narnia) the MaA:s that are doing the hard work. So you use the chaff to screen them and make the enemy turn away and become totally ineffectual. So no, it's not “objectively worse” in any way — it's situationally worse once you get into the later stage of the game (where everything gets boring). 
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Nov 8, 2020 23:02
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I have 10k MaA all the time though? That is a mid-late game thing, but it applies equally in the early game, MaA stacks will wipe stacks four times their size all on their lonesome, and in the early game any enemy army you're fighting will be proportionally smaller as well.
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Nov 8, 2020 23:19
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First time CK player, first game. I went through the tutorial and watched some 6h worth of tutorials on youtube.. but now that I want to declare war I am stuck after all. The issues tab tells me I can declare 3 wars. However when I click on any of them, pick the CB "Conquer County", the "Declare War" button at the bottom of the screen is still disabled. What's that all about? What am I missing? 
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Nov 9, 2020 01:11
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theres a few different situations that they dont explain on the tooltip its possible your ally is already at war with them for the same title?? you cant declare war on someone who your liege is already at war with for the same title??? these are a few of the many possibilities
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Nov 9, 2020 01:16
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Are you independent? My gut is telling me it's because your liege is at war with them. E: oh except if that were true the flag for your liege's war would be there on the bottom. Alternative reasons for that are:
But none of those seem to apply in this case, so idk. Are you imprisoned? PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Nov 9, 2020 |
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Nov 9, 2020 01:19
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It could also be almost the exact opposite. that they're not independent but since you went though the “declare war” issue, the UI has selected the person who currently owns the title rather than their liege who is the one you have to declare against.
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Nov 9, 2020 01:24
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PittTheElder posted:Alternative reasons for that are: I am not imprisoned. I do not actually even know why there should be a CB - I found no reference to it anywhere except the Issues tab. strong bird posted:theres a few different situations that they dont explain on the tooltip There are no wars.. the game just started. I dont think I have a Liege.. The Dutchy, kingdom and empire are are not created yet. Also - its the same situation with all the 3 recommendations in the Issues tab. The wierd thing is that when I righclick on the county ruler it says I do not have a CB to start a war. However the Issues tab says I have a CB and the following screen also lets me select it.  I knew the Ui would be complex but I did not still expect puzzles like this SirTagz fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Nov 9, 2020 |
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Nov 9, 2020 01:25
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The Conquest CB is one you get for either being tribal, or you get it as part of your religious tenets (Warmonger, Pursuit of Power, probably others). I'm not sure which of those would apply to Ireland tho.
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Nov 9, 2020 01:32
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PittTheElder posted:The Conquest CB is one you get for either being tribal, or you get it as part of your religious tenets (Warmonger, Pursuit of Power, probably others). I'm not sure which of those would apply to Ireland tho. Yeah, I am tribal. I guess that explains the CB. But still no idea why I cannot declare then
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Nov 9, 2020 01:37
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Are you celibate? That disables regular claim wars in a non-obvious way, not sure about tribal CBs. Edit: Doesn't look like you are, so 
No Pants fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Nov 9, 2020 |
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Nov 9, 2020 01:50
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One you're missing: your levies are already raised (thus the disband button) and that blocks you declaring additional wars. Try disbanding your troops and see if that fixes it Normally that one should show up when you hover a disabled Declare War button, unless I'm just remembering it wrong because I've devoted way too many neurons to understanding this game's UI.
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Nov 9, 2020 01:52
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No Pants posted:Are you celibate? That disables regular claim wars in a non-obvious way, not sure about tribal CBs. Wait, what?
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Nov 9, 2020 02:01
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Oh yeah it probably is the raised levies, must have missed that screenshot originally. Yeah normally with armies raised you wouldn't even be able to click the Declare War button to open that screen.
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Nov 9, 2020 02:04
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Beamed posted:Wait, what?
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Nov 9, 2020 02:04
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No Pants posted:All I know is when I'm Catholic, I have to start having sex again to press my fabricated claims. Otherwise I end up with a disabled Declare War button with no tooltip. I’ve waged war while celibate. That sounds....weird.
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Nov 9, 2020 03:49
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It took until 1325, but I finally dismantled the papacy for the first time ever. Feels goooooood.
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Nov 9, 2020 04:09
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Crusader Kings 3: when I'm Catholic, I have to start having sex again
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Nov 9, 2020 04:20
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Dallan Invictus posted:One you're missing: your levies are already raised (thus the disband button) and that blocks you declaring additional wars. Try disbanding your troops and see if that fixes it Thanks! I will give it a try in the evening. Does this however mean that it is not possible to declare multiple wars at the same time? I saw a tutorial kind of thing online which explained how to use Templar Knights against France by first declaring on a remote small muslim nation.. and then just going to war against France and using the Templars there. Or is that just handled by declaring wars quickly in succession and only then raising levies?
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Nov 9, 2020 08:48
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SirTagz posted:Thanks! I will give it a try in the evening. Does this however mean that it is not possible to declare multiple wars at the same time? I saw a tutorial kind of thing online which explained how to use Templar Knights against France by first declaring on a remote small muslim nation.. and then just going to war against France and using the Templars there. Or is that just handled by declaring wars quickly in succession and only then raising levies? You can skirt around that restriction by declaring a bunch of wars and then raising your army afterward, yes.
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Nov 9, 2020 09:36
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Magil Zeal posted:You can skirt around that restriction by declaring a bunch of wars and then raising your army afterward, yes. The though part, at least for me, is that inevitably the weakest of the enemies will get an ally that will just make the whole plan backfire.
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Nov 9, 2020 14:47
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Regarding men at arms, in my current Outremer game I'm finding that my regiments of ultra-buffed Chasseurs (light cavalry) just delete entire armies, like not only do they win battles against forces six times their size, they also exterminate those armies to a man, which is like, so refreshing you wouldn't believe. If I want a similar effect in future games, should I similarly spec into cavalry, or do other men at arms also generate 100% fatal casualties?
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Nov 9, 2020 20:11
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Reveilled posted:Regarding men at arms, in my current Outremer game I'm finding that my regiments of ultra-buffed Chasseurs (light cavalry) just delete entire armies, like not only do they win battles against forces six times their size, they also exterminate those armies to a man, which is like, so refreshing you wouldn't believe. If I want a similar effect in future games, should I similarly spec into cavalry, or do other men at arms also generate 100% fatal casualties? It's pretty much the whole purpose of light cav with their pursuit score. Especially Chasseurs since they have the next highest pursuit in the entire game. Some Slavic tribes have Konni light cav at 60, but it will take them a long time to build them up in any greater numbers. Your only other options would be regular heavy cav (pursuit 20) or even generic light cav (30), or even skirmishers with their cute pursuit 10. Some of the cultural units mix that up so it's not always light cav at the top, but even among the cultural units, it's those three that offer any pursuit score of value. Tippis fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Nov 9, 2020 |
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Nov 9, 2020 20:29
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Reveilled posted:Regarding men at arms, in my current Outremer game I'm finding that my regiments of ultra-buffed Chasseurs (light cavalry) just delete entire armies, like not only do they win battles against forces six times their size, they also exterminate those armies to a man, which is like, so refreshing you wouldn't believe. If I want a similar effect in future games, should I similarly spec into cavalry, or do other men at arms also generate 100% fatal casualties? I’ve done this with not particularly buffed light cavalry but super buffed huscarls and bowmen.
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Nov 9, 2020 20:30
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Reveilled posted:Regarding men at arms, in my current Outremer game I'm finding that my regiments of ultra-buffed Chasseurs (light cavalry) just delete entire armies, like not only do they win battles against forces six times their size, they also exterminate those armies to a man, which is like, so refreshing you wouldn't believe. If I want a similar effect in future games, should I similarly spec into cavalry, or do other men at arms also generate 100% fatal casualties? Chasseurs are extremely good (and Horse Archers for the same reason), but yeah other MaA comps (notably AF/Pike) will do the same thing usually, though maybe not at 6x size. Any battle that ends during the first skirmish phase is an autowipe for the defender which is very easy to arrange by juicing the attack on your Armored Foot with buildings, or Armored Cav just by itself if you have the cash.
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Nov 9, 2020 20:33
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Reveilled posted:Regarding men at arms, in my current Outremer game I'm finding that my regiments of ultra-buffed Chasseurs (light cavalry) just delete entire armies, like not only do they win battles against forces six times their size, they also exterminate those armies to a man, which is like, so refreshing you wouldn't believe. If I want a similar effect in future games, should I similarly spec into cavalry, or do other men at arms also generate 100% fatal casualties? The most reliable way to produce this effect is to buff the Pursuit stat on your MaA so that the pursuit phase after combat causes enough damage to wipe the enemy stacks. (You can also just generally be so damaging compared to enemy toughness or outnumber the enemy by so much that you win the battle in the early engagement phase and stackwipe the enemy, but usually that needs a crazy numbers/stat/advantage disparity that can't be relied upon in general) Only Skirmishers and light cav get reliable/stackable Pursuit buffs (heavy cav and some cultural MaA start with some but don't have access to as many buffs for it) so you'll usually have to specialise there to do this consistently, but if your MaA are otherwise good enough it can still happen. edit: yeah what they all said Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Nov 9, 2020 |
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Nov 9, 2020 20:36
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Fister Roboto posted:Weird thing I just thought of: female-dominated dynasties will naturally have a harder time generating renown, because they have a lower hard limit on how many dynasty members they can produce over time. The dynasty member contribution to renown got maxed out at +2 with 100 dynasty members after one of the patches. I found that I still hit that incredibly fast in my Daura game- maybe even within 1 or 2 rulers after my first. I've noticed I don't gave the same ridiculous numbers as when I played in Andalusia, but you still end up with tons of dynasty members regardless.
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Nov 9, 2020 20:37
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Fister Roboto posted:Weird thing I just thought of: female-dominated dynasties will naturally have a harder time generating renown, because they have a lower hard limit on how many dynasty members they can produce over time. Tippis posted:Your only other options would be regular heavy cav (pursuit 20) or even generic light cav (30), or even skirmishers with their cute pursuit 10. Some of the cultural units mix that up so it's not always light cav at the top, but even among the cultural units, it's those three that offer any pursuit score of value. Is the pikeman/heavy footman combo still OP after the nerf? PancakeTransmission fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Nov 9, 2020 |
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Nov 9, 2020 22:02
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There has been no nerf. Man just once I would like to actually have to deal with the mongols. Finally had a game where they made it as far as Persia but then they fragmented and never did anything again. Might be anticlimactic though, I think I bumped into one of their stacks during a Crusade and it died to my MaA just the same as anything else. The Mongols seem to be particularly vulnerable to getting called into multiple defensive wars as well, and then spending forever marching all of their levies across Eurasia while accumulating thousands of gold worth of debt. Would be cool if they gave less of a poo poo about that, or the AI understood how warfare worked I guess. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Nov 9, 2020 |
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Nov 9, 2020 22:44
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Pikes had their attack nerfed slightly iirc but it hasn't made a meaningful impact on the strategy.Fister Roboto posted:Weird thing I just thought of: female-dominated dynasties will naturally have a harder time generating renown, because they have a lower hard limit on how many dynasty members they can produce over time. To some extent yes, but over time I manage to mitigate this by marrying my sons in normal marriages and then giving their wives land. They will produce lots of children of my dynasty, and when the wife dies my dynasty will inherit the land. You still get less dynastic children over time but this can help.
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Nov 10, 2020 00:12
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PancakeTransmission posted:Is the pikeman/heavy footman combo still OP after the nerf? I don't know if it's as crazy as it was, but in 1080 my 3200 pikemen/heavies had no problem taking on the levy+MaA combo of both Francia and Germania while I pushed my claim on the throne. They were constantly throwing 10-12k stacks into my guys and losing. I don't have all the duchy buildings or county buildings to buff them, but they are still pretty beefy.
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Nov 10, 2020 00:24
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I mean even just looking at the base stats, Armored Footmen are about 2.5x stronger than levies, and it stands to reason that they will defeat an army of levies 2.5x times it's own size; in my personal experience the number is actually higher than that, and then all the buildings make that number even bigger as time goes on, with the first 1-2 levels having larger effects. The martial tree has huge buffs to them as well. If the AI knew to mass MaA that wouldn't really be a problem (and it would make rebellions scary af since your vassals together will generally have more MaA than you). PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Nov 10, 2020 |
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Nov 10, 2020 00:58
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