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FilthyImp posted:Oh god I just watched the one where Adachi stays home from school and it's just the most awkward, sweet thing ever. Sexuality in Japan in considered a super personal thing to begin with. Public displays of affection are generally frowned upon regardless of orientation. The corporate world runs on a Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell policy. And while homosexuality is looked down upon by older, more conservative people, there is always the undercurrent of "duty" to a lot of sexual conduct. It is why cheating isn't really considered that big of a deal, so long as you complete your familial duties (e.g. Father providing for the family, mother caring for the family, young people getting married and popping off a couple kids). What you do in your free time is on you. (Also, they don't have that Christian influence on societal views of homosexuality poisoning the well like most western countries do. And as a side note, Samurai culture was deeply homoerotic almost to an ancient Greece level.) That said, like a lot of cultures that are becoming increasingly "Americanized," younger people are becoming more up front and open about their orientation if only to rebel at tradition. But it hasn't gained mainstream acceptance like it has in the US. But they've always been more tolerant of it than we have. Edit: Well that's an awkward loving snipe. >_> AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Nov 9, 2020 |
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Nov 9, 2020 19:52
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there is no one i trust more to help me understand the state of gay rights in japan than an internet poster on "the somtehing awful" web site
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Nov 9, 2020 19:58
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The Colonel posted:there is no one i trust more to help me understand the state of gay rights in japan than an internet poster on "the somtehing awful" web site I know, right?  But really. Take everything I said above with a grain of salt. I'm not gay, and I haven't lived in Japan for almost a decade. But just from keeping up with my friends over there, what I read, and my few interactions when I go visit, that's my best take.
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Nov 9, 2020 20:03
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AlternateNu posted:Sexuality in Japan in considered a super personal thing to begin with. Public displays of affection are generally frowned upon regardless of orientation. The corporate world runs on a Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell policy. And while homosexuality is looked down upon by older, more conservative people, there is always the undercurrent of "duty" to a lot of sexual conduct. It is why cheating isn't really considered that big of a deal, so long as you complete your familial duties (e.g. Father providing for the family, mother caring for the family, young people getting married and popping off a couple kids). What you do in your free time is on you. (Also, they don't have that Christian influence on societal views of homosexuality poisoning the well like most western countries do. And as a side note, Samurai culture was deeply homoerotic almost to an ancient Greece level.) One thing to mention though that at some point during the Meiji Restoration and WW2 there was a massive move to clamp down against non-conforming sexuality, particularly as an explicit part of the Imperial project to define the role of women in society as baby makers and men as soldiers, so much of iirc of Japanese conservativism towards women's rights and LBGTQ+ people you can point at the Meiji restoration and the massive transformative cultural changes that occurred them. AlternateNu posted:I know, right? As a side note actually I think most anime conventions will have a panel of Yuri/Yaoi and its relation with Japanese history/culture and usually will have the panelists talking about the history of lbgtq+ representation in Japanese media, it's super interesting and worth checking out those panels if there's ever again a convention near you! 
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Nov 9, 2020 23:09
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The Colonel posted:there is no one i trust more to help me understand the state of gay rights in japan than an internet poster on "the somtehing awful" web site But I figured I could spend the better part of a few hours looking at a bunch of online sources (or, probably, Tubers in Japan), or I could ask someone here who either lives/lived in Japan, etc. With the concentration of users I figured it'd be a good shot. Part of what brought it on is that the LGBTQ+ community in High Schools has exploded since the 2000s. Yes, it's super dependent on where you live, but at least here in godless L.A. queer teens have a lot of support and visibility. So watching Adachi and Shimamura navigate that whole "wait, what do I do... Do I *LIKE* this person? Oh god" made me wonder what kind of environment that would happen against. Deep thoughts on slice-of-life animes itt.
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Nov 9, 2020 23:46
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i'm not qualified to talk about the subject myself but if you want media that digs deeper into the experience of lgbt living in japan then it does exist one night, hot springs is a vn written as a fairly japanese trans living-101 thing and is the first in a whole trilogy that does exploration of the subject of living as an lgbt person in japan, made by an lgbt indie dev who lives in japan wanna go out (or its official title, how do we relationship) is a very grounded manga about adult lesbian relationships yagate kimi ni naru/bloom into you is kind of the standard lesbian manga rec these days but it goes into the subject a fair bit, especially with the side cast the bride was a boy is a short autobiographical manga about a trans woman that's just a small sample of stuff off the top of my head there's def way more out there. i forget the name of it but there's one really good oneshot about an x-gender person that does a really good job exploring that corner of teenage lgbt japanese life The Colonel fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Nov 10, 2020 |
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Nov 10, 2020 00:15
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it depends, a lot, on where you are and what sort of environment you're in. instances of outright hate crimes or public disgust at a gay couple are rare, but there's a lot of whispering/rumormongering, and japanese high school already has more of that than american high schools tend to. but also, the more urban and modern parts of tokyo, and japan in general, tend to be more accepting, and there are small gay communities in tokyo. as you get out in the sticks it tends to be seen more as a 'public nuisance.' though of course even in the city you get conservatives, and the government has used gay people as scapegoats for the declining birth rates before. public polling for gay marriage approval hovers around 55%-60% and is slowly trending upwards, and if you add 'they should have the same rights as straight couples but we shouldn't call it marriage' it increases to about 70%. And another 10%-15% approve of some form of recognition and basic legal rights. The number of people who outright want them to have nothing are very small, in other words. But there's also a ton of misinformation, rumors, and distrust going on, including misunderstanding of why someone would even be gay or how that person would think. and there's very little publicly available info. shows like bloom into you and adachi are legitimately boundary pushing on that front, since there's not a lot of primetime tv about it. america and other western countries have a lot of those same issues, but you tend to hear about being gay on tv a bit more. not necssarily in daytime tv shows, but just on the news. so in general, it's less bigotry and more confusion, which is why the girls in these anime tend to have the 'but we're both girls...???' reaction. it's something they've barely heard of, barely understand, and they're teenagers. confusion and anxiety is a pretty normal response for a teen to have. it'd be like learning you have a disorder you've never heard of, to them. that said a lot of that is also grounded in just the tropes of the genre, which were established, broadly, in the 80s and 90s, and don't quite reflect modern views, even if they still make sense within a modern context. gay friends or having met gay people online, or having read gay manga or books, is a pretty normal thing for a teenager to mention these days, in the same way most alt-culture things are normal for a teen to know about. that said there's still very, very little in the way of support from schools or adults, and japan has pretty low access to mental health resources even independent of sexuality, so there's very few places for teens to go if they feel lost on this stuff. which leads to more confusion, naturally. tl;dr shits complicated and theres no one magic bullet answer, but generally information and understanding is a lot lower while outright hatred isn't necessarily higher.
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Nov 10, 2020 00:37
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thinking about it i can think of very few manga where there's anything resembling a codified lgbt support group at a school or college and in the ones I *can* think of, they're setup by the students with no real support or acknowledgment from the school itself. granted part of that is just narrative convenience (having the couple work through their misunderstanding together is more interesting, and if you want them to have a support network you can introduce individual characters), but i'm curious if anyone can think of one where that sort of thing does exist in the same way some american schools would have an lgbt alliance.
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Nov 10, 2020 00:41
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Public support for gay marriage in Japan is polling at around 80% if you exclude people over 60, so it definitely seems like something that will happen in the future. On the other hand, the LDP sucks rear end and is going to be in power forever, so who knows when it'll happen.
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Nov 10, 2020 00:46
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cave emperor posted:Public support for gay marriage in Japan is polling at around 80% if you exclude people over 60, so it definitely seems like something that will happen in the future. On the other hand, the LDP sucks rear end and is going to be in power forever, so who knows when it'll happen.
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Nov 10, 2020 00:58
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Also reminder: Yuji Mitsuya (Virgo Shaka in Saint Seiya, Doctor Tofu in Ranma, among others) had to keep dodging the question for probably a buttload of years before he came out, even if a number of his friends/co-workers knew, for fear of the whiplash this might cause to his older brother.
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Nov 10, 2020 01:22
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Endorph posted:thinking about it i can think of very few manga where there's anything resembling a codified lgbt support group at a school or college and in the ones I *can* think of, they're setup by the students with no real support or acknowledgment from the school itself. granted part of that is just narrative convenience (having the couple work through their misunderstanding together is more interesting, and if you want them to have a support network you can introduce individual characters), but i'm curious if anyone can think of one where that sort of thing does exist in the same way some american schools would have an lgbt alliance. Do you remember off hand those examples and can recommend them?
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Nov 10, 2020 01:33
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Raenir Salazar posted:Do you remember off hand those examples and can recommend them? Our Dreams at Dusk/Shimanami Tasogare is the main one I'm thinking of. By the Nabari no Ou author. quote:The story follows Tasuku Kaname, a gay teenager who meets other LGBT people at a discussion lounge after being involuntarily outed. Mostyl follows a group of LGBT people across various age ranges and the little makeshift support/discussion group they've made, and Tasuku there stumbling into it. Warning that it opens with a suicide attempt, but it's fairly hopeful.
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Nov 10, 2020 02:45
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Endorph posted:thinking about it i can think of very few manga where there's anything resembling a codified lgbt support group at a school or college and in the ones I *can* think of, they're setup by the students with no real support or acknowledgment from the school itself. granted part of that is just narrative convenience (having the couple work through their misunderstanding together is more interesting, and if you want them to have a support network you can introduce individual characters), but i'm curious if anyone can think of one where that sort of thing does exist in the same way some american schools would have an lgbt alliance. It's a webtoon so this is a little bit outside the topic but one of the things that connect a bunch of the characters in this comic is they were in a LGBT+ club in college, pretty light on the details on how it operated since the comic itself is set years later in the workplace but it has a pretty strong feeling of community since it shows them all as a group of friends supporting each other over the years.
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Nov 10, 2020 03:13
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Idk if anyone is still watching the new Love Live but episode 6 was bam right in the feels in the best way. Just a great way to handle that subject matter and nothing was cheapened with the power of friendship or anything like that.
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Nov 10, 2020 10:46
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We do have Love Live S3 thread, if you want to make meatier posts about it, too!
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Nov 10, 2020 13:06
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At the half-way(ish) mark, I think the show I'm actually enjoying the most this season is Magatsu Warhiet. It's got some fun character work, and seems to at least be attempting to do something clever. It's also clearly made on a budget not that much bigger than Kemono Friends'. I was kind of assuming the OP was a placeholder, but considering they've replaced it with a rotating GCI canister, maybe I should have been thankful for what we had.
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Nov 11, 2020 00:46
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I do like Inumael as a lead. He's a complete dweeby loser who's keenly aware that he has no business being anywhere near any of this bullshit, but he's got enough fundamental decency to keep willingly throwing himself into greater and greater trouble and pull off acts of ludicrous heroism while constantly looking like he's only a couple of seconds away from making GBS threads his underwear.
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Nov 11, 2020 02:41
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I started watching the new When they Cry, was Keichii always this much of a gives no fucks protagonist?
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Nov 11, 2020 09:09
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he's an extremely goofy teen who wants to look cool and joke around with his friends. the old anime sorta shows that side of him but it's extra present in the vns where half of his screen time is him teasing people and then getting owned for it gou is also a direct sequel that just slightly disguises that for the first episode, so. The Colonel fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Nov 11, 2020 |
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Nov 11, 2020 09:27
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Yeah from what I can vaguely remember of the original anime run I don't quite remember Keiichi being like that, it's quite refreshing how personable a protagonist he is compared to many of the blander male protagonists these days; of course my memory of the VN is even less. I'm hoping they touched up the original Higurashi OP, that was a kick in the nostalgia, I want it especially if they did touch it up/remastered it. I forget, I think I vaguely remember there being some sort of Tsukihime connection between Ciel and I think the blue haired school teacher? I was relistening to some of the past OP's and there was art of her holding some rulers like Black Keys and I think that was a thing; was that a fan thing that got elevated for one of the anime OVA's (I think I vaguely recall this) or was she always a Ciel reference? I am feeling some hard early 00's nostalgia here send help before I start rewatching all of Beast Wars or Gundam Wing.
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Nov 11, 2020 23:55
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the joke of chie is that she is literally just ciel from tsukihime. it's not a serious plot or world connection ryukishi just wrote and designed her exactly like ciel as a joke, it's why she's obsessed with curry 
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Nov 12, 2020 00:02
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Yeah Ryukishi is just a big Type-Moon fan.
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Nov 12, 2020 00:03
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I just finished rewatching the first season of Higurashi with some friends and I forgot how loving rad the rooftop fight at the end was.
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Nov 12, 2020 01:26
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tbf, curry is loving rad.
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Nov 12, 2020 01:27
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the fact that ch6 is covered pretty decently by s1 of the old anime will always make me extra bitter how badly it covers ch5. such a weird stumbling block that's had a majorly negative effect on how people read that entire chunk of the story right before them generally getting everything after it down pretty well does make it funnier how the second movie completely destroys that entire rooftop scene though. just utterly demolishes it. just wrings all the emotional impact out The Colonel fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Nov 12, 2020 |
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Nov 12, 2020 01:32
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Thanks for the Nana recs upthread, I've been enjoying it and probably wouldn't have watched it without the hints at what it is
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Nov 12, 2020 01:41
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I just finished Volume 3 of Elaina. It was real good and my favorite outta the 3 volumes released in English so far. Apparently the next episode of Elaina will cover two of the fun stories from vol 3, so it's likely the anime is freely picking and choosing from throughout all the LNs. Vol 3 ends on a real strong note though so I am wondering about those stories in later volumes, as well as what the anime chooses to go with in how it ties all its stories together.
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Nov 12, 2020 02:49
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I probably should start reading the LN as I've seen quite a few praising them (and than also lamenting the choices the anime mad in adapting)
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Nov 12, 2020 02:52
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I dropped Elaina hard at ep 3.Bodie Thoene posted:Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand.
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Nov 12, 2020 04:23
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the cum glove
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Nov 12, 2020 04:30
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i love that granblue fanartist
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Nov 12, 2020 04:50
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CrazySalamander posted:I dropped Elaina hard at ep 3. You could go back to it. The tone changes drastically every couple of episodes. The last two episodes were lighthearted adventures with a sense of humor where Elaina actually works on a problem that she finds.
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Nov 12, 2020 05:26
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CrazySalamander posted:I dropped Elaina hard at ep 3.
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Nov 12, 2020 07:38
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Maxwell Adams posted:You could go back to it. The tone changes drastically every couple of episodes. The last two episodes were lighthearted adventures with a sense of humor where Elaina actually works on a problem that she finds. I would argue that the tone changing drastically every couple of episodes is why the show is being dropped by some. "The show is tragic when the writer feels like it" is not a great mood.
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Nov 12, 2020 10:53
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I enjoyed the first episode because it seemed to be Kino's Journey but less judgemental and less implicitly self-congratulatory and more empathetic, but at this point it's more like "how more can we demonstrate that the main character is a moral coward?" Perhaps there's room for character growth in there, maybe there was some of that in the recent episode, but the stakes were sufficiently low that she never really risked anything.
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Nov 12, 2020 11:14
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Look it's a bad show but it looks nice
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Nov 12, 2020 12:31
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Moral cowards can also be interesting characters.
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Nov 12, 2020 13:04
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She is also still a teenager, so expecting her to start murdering people and become a fugitive for the rest of her life is a bit of an ask imo. It's kind of expected in a protagonist but I'm not going to get outraged over her not stepping in in the instances I've seen.
Nephthys fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Nov 12, 2020 |
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Nov 12, 2020 13:23
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Phobophilia posted:I enjoyed the first episode because it seemed to be Kino's Journey but... less implicitly self-congratulatory https://twitter.com/colonvee/status/1314598578279649284?s=20
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Nov 12, 2020 13:51
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