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Again, don't get me wrong: I've got a 5600X sitting on my desk waiting to be installed later tonight. But if Intel can actually hit the ~20% IPC gains that some have claimed for Rocket Lake, gaming preference will swing right back to the blue team again. Productivity and other wide-core loads will still probably be better off on AMD hardware unless Intel really goes to the mat with pricing (they won't), though. They're not in a great spot right this moment, but thinking that Intel somehow can't maneuver themselves back into a good spot is, I think, a mistake.
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Nov 10, 2020 22:43
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The difference is that their IPC gain is also being coupled with (sometimes significant) clock speed regressions, and core count reductions. So it's not a straight slam dunk.
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Nov 10, 2020 22:45
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Gwaihir posted:The difference is that their IPC gain is also being coupled with (sometimes significant) clock speed regressions, and core count reductions. So it's not a straight slam dunk. When you say clock speed regressions I hear overclocking headroom.
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Nov 10, 2020 22:49
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Gwaihir posted:The difference is that their IPC gain is also being coupled with (sometimes significant) clock speed regressions, and core count reductions. So it's not a straight slam dunk. I don't know that that's the case. Ice lake was a clock speed regression, but tiger lake clocks well and rocket lake isn't going to be 10nm at all - and if there's one thing 14nm still has going for it, it's clock speed.
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Nov 10, 2020 22:52
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DrDork posted:They're not in a great spot right this moment, but thinking that Intel somehow can't maneuver themselves back into a good spot is, I think, a mistake. I'm 50/50 on them being ok long term vs a permanent slow decline. Their 10nm is still obviously having issues, and 7nm is also hosed until at least late 2022/2023 and they're considering moving to third party fabrication. It's not like there's a ton of cheap spare capacity on new nodes, so if they're even considering that, they're pretty desperate.
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Nov 10, 2020 22:53
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DrDork posted:Again, don't get me wrong: I've got a 5600X sitting on my desk waiting to be installed later tonight. Even if intel can take the lead in gaming, the performance per watt will be horrible by comparison.
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Nov 10, 2020 22:56
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Perplx posted:Even if intel can take the lead in gaming, the performance per watt will be horrible by comparison. I don't doubt that you're right, but at the same time a lot of the people don't overly care. SFF builds aside, an extra 100W in a gaming desktop isn't all that much to worry about, especially since they stopped packing in HSFs and pretending that somehow they were ok.
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Nov 10, 2020 22:58
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Zeta Acosta posted:i mean if you are building a new system and you have the money there is no reason to buy intel over amd, but in thed second hand market or in xeons you still can find some good things the xeon im using right now for example benchs better than a Intel Core i7-6700 and i found it 30 dollars cheaper than a i74790 and that processor still kick rear end AMD's pricing has left some value arguments for a few intel parts in gaming. The $450 10-core 10850K (which performs identically to a 10900k) vs the $450 8-core 5800X, for example.
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Nov 10, 2020 23:05
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I'd think AMD will still retain HEDT supremacy though, especially when it comes to bang for buck. I don't care about the highest frame rate in games, I just do a lot of different stuff often simultaneously and don't want to think about RAM. 128GB is so unreasonably cheap for how much loving RAM it is that I think I can come close to striking gold twice on another 10 year build like my 2600K and Intel HEDT has just always been hellaciously expensive. USB 3.0 was never compelling enough for me to upgrade + I just ended up putting in a PCIe USB 3.1 card for the external dock I use occasionally and I think my SATA SSD is just now starting to bog down. PCIe 2.0 x16 to a GeForce 1080 also doesn't seem to be bottlenecking. (This post will age poorly.)
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Nov 10, 2020 23:46
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I agree that Intel isn't likely to take back the "I need lots of cores" lead any time soon. USB 3 has, to me, been far less interesting than TB3. If the updated versions of USB can also figure out how to expose PCIe lanes so you can attach hardware to it with reasonably low latency, that would be wonderful, but I'm not counting on it. Gobs of RAM is always fun, but remember that DDR5 will be offering silly amounts more bandwidth in a year or two.
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Nov 11, 2020 05:21
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I want to think that ARM can make more inroads with datacenters, and not just hyperscalers and #1 on TOP500 as is currently the case - because while hyperscalers have huge datacenters, they're still no match for the sheer number of machines churning in thousands and thousands of other datacenters.DrDork posted:I agree that Intel isn't likely to take back the "I need lots of cores" lead any time soon.
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Nov 11, 2020 22:04
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I don't see how this is going to be possible without a major redesign of the USB protocol, at which point it becomes even less universal than it already is with 10 different plugs as well as a bunch of semi-proprietary or rarely used extensions that really should be standard for it as universal as it promised. I don't pretend to understand the deep technicalities of it, but USB 4 is supposed to be basically built on top of TB3, which may very well mean that we get all the goodies of TB if, indeed, USB itself is being subsumed inside the TB protocol. So in that sense a "major redesign" has already been decided upon. Not sure how much it'll do for cabling--I guess that depends on whether or not they release multiple cable specs to cover different power and data capacities. At least USB 4 will continue to be backwards compatible all the way back to USB 1.0.
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Nov 11, 2020 22:29
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DrDork posted:I don't pretend to understand the deep technicalities of it, but USB 4 is supposed to be basically built on top of TB3, which may very well mean that we get all the goodies of TB if, indeed, USB itself is being subsumed inside the TB protocol. So in that sense a "major redesign" has already been decided upon.
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Nov 11, 2020 22:41
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Ars has a pretty good article on it from about a year and a half ago, but the gist of it is that Intel gave TB3 to USB-IF without the latter having to pay a royalties. Yeah, I just mean I don't know if the way USB-IF is utilizing the TB3 spec will bring over the latency benefits of TB vs USB or not. 40Gbps bandwidth is great and all, but if the latency continues to be high like it is with USB 3 then it limits some of the things you can viably use it for in terms of monitors, eGPUs, etc.
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Nov 11, 2020 22:47
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Try to find the right usb c cable is already a nightmare (oh for this monitor you need 10 gbit support with dp alt mode and 2.1, but you don’t need to spend twice as much for tb3.)
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Nov 12, 2020 01:38
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PCjr sidecar posted:Try to find the right usb c cable is already a nightmare (oh for this monitor you need 10 gbit support with dp alt mode and 2.1, but you don’t need to spend twice as much for tb3.) lol DisplayPort and HDMI cables that don't suck rear end and randomly stop working is an unsettled issue. USB cables are already a fun subsection of that hell and now it's gonna get worse?
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Nov 12, 2020 06:59
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My local microcenter has cut $50 off the price of a 10850k, now $399. For 10/20 and 5.2ghz clocks. Even if it is objectively inferior to Zen 3 in a lot of ways, that is a spicy price for a CPU thats the fastest available in half of games.
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Nov 14, 2020 02:31
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That's legit pretty insane value if you're willing to throw enough cooling at it.
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Nov 14, 2020 02:45
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Cygni posted:My local microcenter has cut $50 off the price of a 10850k, now $399. For 10/20 and 5.2ghz clocks. Yeah, I think this is how Intel is going to compete in the short term once they actually see dips in purchase rates: just undercut pricing to the point where they're offering a +2c and +400Mhz advantage at a given price point. Zen 3 is good, but $50-$100 on consumer parts matters.
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Nov 14, 2020 02:47
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Cygni posted:My local microcenter has cut $50 off the price of a 10850k, now $399. For 10/20 and 5.2ghz clocks. That's a better deal than any Zen 3 at MSRP, just have a big fan.
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Nov 14, 2020 05:14
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Cygni posted:My local microcenter has cut $50 off the price of a 10850k, now $399. For 10/20 and 5.2ghz clocks. drat that's nice. I assume they're juicing this thing about as far as it can go -- what kind of all-core clocks can people reasonably get on this (on air)?
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Nov 14, 2020 05:45
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https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/how-low-can-you-go-memory-latency-competition-aida64.263929/post-4212921 28.9ns DDR4 latency on an Intel, albeit at a suicidal 2V of DRAM voltage. Someone got 32.9ns on a much safer 1.45V, I would love to see the impact versus standard 3200C16 in gaming tests. Palladium fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Nov 14, 2020 |
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Nov 14, 2020 06:14
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Palladium posted:https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/how-low-can-you-go-memory-latency-competition-aida64.263929/post-4212921 Gamers' Nexus recently did a video with a 10600K and a 5600X with very tuned memory, if that interests https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYhwBk8GE6M
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Nov 14, 2020 11:18
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Twerk from Home posted:That's a better deal than any Zen 3 at MSRP, just have a big fan. If you get a similar discount on the board, maybe.
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Nov 14, 2020 12:21
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Cygni posted:My local microcenter has cut $50 off the price of a 10850k, now $399. For 10/20 and 5.2ghz clocks. How does it compare to zen3 price-wise once you have to strap a threadripper cooler on it?
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Nov 14, 2020 12:37
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Dunno where to put this so https://twitter.com/mnloona48_/status/1328453127209504771?s=21 #sheesh Faster than a 7700k in single core
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Nov 16, 2020 22:51
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He’s complaining about battery life but I noticed when my wife got an Apple laptop that her processor was loaded up to 50% processing “Apple photos” for multiple hours. I highly doubt apple just straight up lied by multiple multiple hours more. Those big cores need a turn off and they probably aren’t until the laptop has had a few days to sort out all of your bullshit.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:01
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The battery life was for wireless web and video, they didn’t mention battery life running benchmarks. I don’t think any laptop run more than a few hours under full load. Also my 9900k only gets 1270/12622 in R23, that’s at 4.8Ghz avx.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:45
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Perplx posted:The battery life was for wireless web and video, they didn’t mention battery life running benchmarks. I don’t think any laptop run more than a few hours under full load. 1291/6834 9600k @5ghz no avx reduction Its faster single core then us?  Them not showing cinbench on stage makes me sus if its that good. Edit: does that display edge seem kinda thick to anyone?
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Nov 17, 2020 01:40
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spunkshui posted:Edit: does that display edge seem kinda thick to anyone? It’s the same chassis as the old ones so, looks normal to me
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Nov 17, 2020 02:07
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Shot in the dark, but does anyone ITT have any old/spare socket 1150 motherboards laying around? Either ITX or mATX. I want to build a modest gaming PC for my goddaughter (she only really plays Minecraft and Roblox) but don't really have much to spend. I have a bunch of spare parts already (i3 4330 CPU, 8GB RAM, and an RX 580), but will be shopping around for a case and PSU on Black Friday/Cyber Monday. Hope someone here might be able to help me out with the motherboard part as I don't really want to brave eBay or the hardware swap subreddit. I posted a thread in SA-Mart for an ITX board but got no bites 
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Nov 19, 2020 20:11
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teagone posted:Shot in the dark, but does anyone ITT have any old/spare socket 1150 motherboards laying around? Either ITX or mATX. I want to build a modest gaming PC for my goddaughter (she only really plays Minecraft and Roblox) but don't really have much to spend. I have a bunch of spare parts already (i3 4330 CPU, 8GB RAM, and an RX 580), but will be shopping around for a case and PSU on Black Friday/Cyber Monday. Hope someone here might be able to help me out with the motherboard part as I don't really want to brave eBay or the hardware swap subreddit. I posted a thread in SA-Mart for an ITX board but got no bites I do, heh. It’s an Asus h97i-plus mini itx I grabbed for a failed cube hackintosh ages ago. Not sure it works but that’s easy to test if that meets what you need.
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Nov 19, 2020 20:24
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teagone posted:Shot in the dark, but does anyone ITT have any old/spare socket 1150 motherboards laying around? Either ITX or mATX. I want to build a modest gaming PC for my goddaughter (she only really plays Minecraft and Roblox) but don't really have much to spend. I have a bunch of spare parts already (i3 4330 CPU, 8GB RAM, and an RX 580), but will be shopping around for a case and PSU on Black Friday/Cyber Monday. Hope someone here might be able to help me out with the motherboard part as I don't really want to brave eBay or the hardware swap subreddit. I posted a thread in SA-Mart for an ITX board but got no bites I've got an LGA 1155 (ASUS P8P67-M PRO 3.0), which is mATX that I would ship to you... I was literally about to toss it in the recycler this week. I doubt it's compatible with the 1150 but it has an i5-2500k and 16GB ram.
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Nov 19, 2020 22:20
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Hed posted:I've got an LGA 1155 (ASUS P8P67-M PRO 3.0), which is mATX that I would ship to you... I was literally about to toss it in the recycler this week. I doubt it's compatible with the 1150 but it has an i5-2500k and 16GB ram. Man, that set of hardware is still absolutely solid for most workloads today. Legit awesome offer / gesture for good hardware.
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Nov 20, 2020 02:15
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Yeah that's my Unraid system after many years as my main CPU and it just keeps on truckin', it's great.
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Nov 20, 2020 02:25
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movax posted:Man, that set of hardware is still absolutely solid for most workloads today. Legit awesome offer / gesture for good hardware. Yeah, Hed and I are working out the details over PMs atm, but just want to shoutout the generosity. 
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Nov 20, 2020 03:53
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teagone posted:Yeah, Hed and I are working out the details over PMs atm, but just want to shoutout the generosity. Hey, just a heads up, but I have various mITX, mATX, and ATX cases that are just sitting collecting dust, if you still need a case. I also have a few PSUs available too if you'd be interested, I think maybe a 550W and 650W, that are probably 3-4 years old but should still be ok (they're EVGAs and I think originally had 7 year warranties on them). Oh, and it sounds like others have lined you up with CPUs and Mobos, but I do have a Asrock Z97 ITX mobo available with WiFi if you need it. If you do need any of these, they can be yours for free.
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Nov 20, 2020 06:20
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SourKraut posted:Hey, just a heads up, but I have various mITX, mATX, and ATX cases that are just sitting collecting dust, if you still need a case. Holy poo poo  You goons are amazing. Will send you a PM in a sec.
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Nov 20, 2020 06:46
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I'm putting together parts for a friend who is finally (!!!!!) going back to school in January. I have an old mitx case, an evo 840, a small budget gpu, and a usb wifi dongle gathered already and I'd absolutely be down to pay a fair rate for a psu, cpu, ram, or mobo.
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Nov 20, 2020 14:50
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teagone posted:Holy poo poo Potato Salad posted:I'm putting together parts for a friend who is finally (!!!!!) going back to school in January. I have an old mitx case, an evo 840, a small budget gpu, and a usb wifi dongle gathered already and I'd absolutely be down to pay a fair rate for a psu, cpu, ram, or mobo. I'm going to take inventory of my PC "boneyard" starting tonight with the hope of having a list of everything available that I really just want out of the house (well, really, that my wife would like out of the house!). Hopefully you both have a good idea now, but once I have a list and pictures up, I'll probably make a SA Mart thread to put them in and give you both links solely so I can keep track of where stuff is going. Teagone, you will get first dibs on anything you would like to have for your goddaughter, and then Potato Salad you'll be next up for anything. After that, I'll just open it up to other Goons. Edit: Alternatively, Mods, I know SA Mart is normally the place for transactions/etc., but for this year given Covid and how bad the year has been, would it be acceptable to make a Holiday Goonmas Thread or something where those of us it seems with stuff that can be shared with others, could simply post what we have and so the goons in SHSC could see? Canned Sunshine fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 17:15
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