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Pretty weird to see that the pools of water that are essential to the survival of your race are in a cave that anyone can walk into. And open to the world. Some janitor has to come along every now and again and net the Trillbat poo poo from the surface. He sometimes finds a symbiant trapped in a plastic six pack of beer ring holder that he needs to cut out.
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Nov 11, 2020 00:37
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The dude that let them in was one of the capital-G Guardians. There's probably like ten layers of forcefield or some poo poo he could just walk them through.
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Nov 11, 2020 00:47
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Crusader posted:yeah that was definitely a 2390s uniform from Picard: That could mean we see Captain Tal in STP!  Also I think in the far shots the dude next to him in blue is sporting a Starfleet badge as well, so that's another interim uniform. Neddy Seagoon posted:The problem is "Stamets is obstinate and unreasonable" is a plot thread that was quietly, and rightfully, killed off back in season one. He's been the one pushing for a new interface throughout season 2, and suddenly about-facing to tell Tilly to shut up and gently caress off goes against his entire character development. It's bad writing just to force two charactera having an argument for a B-plot. He definitely reverted to S1 E2 Dick Stamets, but I saw it as his personal PSTD manifesting.
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Nov 11, 2020 00:59
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If they want to go down the 'Stamets has PTSD like everyone else route' then the obvious way to manifest that is that he very almost died and him being alive is literally the hope on which all civilization rests at the moment. He should be terrified of his own shadow and/or frustrated that he is absolutely not allowed any fun lest he fall over and twist an ankle or something. Oh and if anyone in the future finds out about him then obviously they would want to kidnap and dissect him, which is why he absolutely should not have revealed his importance to the stranger who sabotaged the ship in the middle of a warzone because 'he had a good feeling'.
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Nov 11, 2020 01:28
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I agree that the character with PTSD should only take rational actions which do not risk making things worse.
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Nov 11, 2020 01:59
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Stamets is a dick He's still a compelling and frequently likable character, but he is absolutely a dick regardless of PTSD or whatever else they are trying to convey. Is he actually improving/working on it? Maybe, probably
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Nov 11, 2020 02:03
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Alchenar posted:If they want to go down the 'Stamets has PTSD like everyone else route' then the obvious way to manifest that is that he very almost died and him being alive is literally the hope on which all civilization rests at the moment. He should be terrified of his own shadow and/or frustrated that he is absolutely not allowed any fun lest he fall over and twist an ankle or something. Oh and if anyone in the future finds out about him then obviously they would want to kidnap and dissect him, which is why he absolutely should not have revealed his importance to the stranger who sabotaged the ship in the middle of a warzone because 'he had a good feeling'. Frankly the whole episode was pretty badly written and a massive backslide from what looked like some pretty honest efforts to fix the show in the prior episodes this season. On the Trill plot it ignores literally every previous encounter with them in prior shows (when Discovery's actually been fairly good about old references up til now), and likely does so merely to force their own "THEY ARE SPECIAL, WE ARE MYSTIC, YOU ARE HERETIC  " cliche'd plot because it would not work otherwise at all. William Riker's had a symbiote before, and Trill's leadership is actually hiding the fact that half the planet are viable hosts to keep things from getting out of hand, so there's the entire plot stone-dead before it'd start. The Trill actors also could not carry a scene to save their lives, and I swear blind the mindtrip section's stolen straight out of an episode of Doctor Who (I want to say the bit just before the 50th anniversary where Clara dives into the Doctor's grave on Trenzalore, but I know I've seen the wormy mindspace somewhere before in that show.The Bloop posted:Stamets is a dick It's not PTSD, it's just sloppy writing. They've gone down the rabbit hole B'Elanna fell into with Voyager where her temperament changed weekly to suit the plot. This episode she's calm and considerate, next week it's a constant battle to deal with Klingon Anger she's barely keeping a lid on, the next she's calm and considerate again. Same thing's happened here with Stamets reverting to start-of-show Stamets just to force some inter-crew drama between the handful of cast members that interact with anyone but Michael and were presumable available to shoot for the episode. If they want PTSD Stamets, Jett had an excellent read on him in the second episode they could've built on to slowly get him to open up and admit he's not infallible and essential.
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Nov 11, 2020 02:23
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I don't remember the exact line, but the Trill counsel said that only Trill are able to merge with their symbiote, or so they believed. Riker may have held on to one inside of him for a short time, but he never merged, he was completely taken over.
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Nov 11, 2020 02:35
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Yeah Riker never joined, he just hosted. (Obviously the whole thing is a mess due to the changes to the Trill, but that's the closest interpretation)
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Nov 11, 2020 02:37
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Look I will just give the show credit for steering away somewhat from the previous two seasons of ‘The Michael Burnham Show’ I was concerned with the first episode being only about her but it has rebounded since then Off topic, but I have no clue what they are going to do with Georgiou going forward. She’s just kind of around to act smug and scheme but doesn’t have a goal now. I thought that the arguments between her and Saru in Ep 2 were a start, but she doesn’t do much on this ship except start poo poo with people.
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Nov 11, 2020 02:38
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That episode had some good things going for it, but the Trill stuff was kind of a snooze. I'd disagree with the above poster about the actors, I think in comparison to some of actors they used to get to play those roles on DS9/TNG/VOY, that group handled the material a little better. But I've never really found the Trill to be that interesting, and this episode tread a lot of the same ground with the Trill concept that DS9 had already pretty thoroughly covered. I guess Adira's stuff tied in with the central themes of the episode, i.e. facing your trauma and all that. Otherwise her plot kind of felt like filler. But maybe they're setting something up that will pay off later, who knows.
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Nov 11, 2020 02:38
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FlamingLiberal posted:Look I will just give the show credit for steering away somewhat from the previous two seasons of ‘The Michael Burnham Show’ I like to imagine she's biding her time and waiting for an opportunity to come to seize power somewhere. I thought maybe she might have been coming onto Linus as part of some scheme to use him for something at first, but maybe she just wants to bone down?
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Nov 11, 2020 02:41
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Drink-Mix Man posted:That episode had some good things going for it, but the Trill stuff was kind of a snooze. I'd disagree with the above poster about the actors, I think in comparison to some of actors they used to get to play those roles on DS9/TNG/VOY, that group handled the material a little better. But I've never really found the Trill to be that interesting, and this episode tread a lot of the same ground with the Trill concept that DS9 had already pretty thoroughly covered. I guess Adira's stuff tied in with the central themes of the episode, i.e. facing your trauma and all that. Otherwise her plot kind of felt like filler. My concern with Adira's character is she's gonna turn into Discovery's Wesley Crusher. She's the smartest one on the ship with knowledge of modern tech, and knows Discovery inside-out, and young, and special, and...etc Drink-Mix Man posted:I like to imagine she's biding her time and waiting for an opportunity to come to seize power somewhere. I thought maybe she might have been coming onto Linus as part of some scheme to use him for something at first, but maybe she just wants to bone down? She's a master manipulator. Linus being nice to her just means he's been suckered. She wants him for his visual optic range for some reason.
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Nov 11, 2020 02:41
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Neddy Seagoon posted:My concern with Adira's character is she's gonna turn into Discovery's Wesley Crusher. She's the smartest one on the ship with knowledge of modern tech, and knows Discovery inside-out, and young, and special, and...etc I don't think Wesley's problem was that he was a genius necessarily. It was that he was Wesley. I actually kind of forgot that Adira is supposed to be a teenager most of the time.
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Nov 11, 2020 02:45
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The science genius thing is a big part of what’s odious about Wesley because it gives him an excuse to take over the plot of an episode and save the day. Contrast Jake and Nog who are both just relatively normal kids — they both have things they’re good at, but the episodes that center on them tend to be about them as characters rather than how they saved the day by being so smart. Later TNG writers did a pretty good job of fixing this with Wesley by booting him to a guest role and giving him better-written stories when he did pop up. It’s too soon to call how Adira will turn out but so far I don’t think the signs are very good. But at least she can’t monopolize the show.
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Nov 11, 2020 03:02
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Adira has really only shown engineering aptitude and basic knowledge of the present time. She’ll probably end up working with Tilly and Stamets the most and maybe as a guide for navigating current political and social stuff. I highly doubt she’ll end up as the new Wesley.
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Nov 11, 2020 03:23
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Adira has really only shown engineering aptitude and basic knowledge of the present time. She’ll probably end up working with Tilly and Stamets the most and maybe as a guide for navigating current political and social stuff. I highly doubt she’ll end up as the new Wesley. So she's Neelix.
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Nov 11, 2020 03:33
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Adira has really only shown engineering aptitude and basic knowledge of the present time. She’ll probably end up working with Tilly and Stamets the most and maybe as a guide for navigating current political and social stuff. I highly doubt she’ll end up as the new Wesley. You're forgetting she now has the accumulated knowledge of prior hosts to break things and look smart with.
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Nov 11, 2020 03:37
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You're forgetting she now has the accumulated knowledge of prior hosts to break things and look smart with. This means she can give a first hand account of what happened around the time of The Burn. I wonder if she actually will though
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Nov 11, 2020 03:39
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Neddy Seagoon posted:On the Trill plot it ignores literally every previous encounter with them in prior shows (when Discovery's actually been fairly good about old references up til now), and likely does so merely to force their own "THEY ARE SPECIAL, WE ARE MYSTIC, YOU ARE HERETIC
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Nov 11, 2020 03:46
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You're forgetting she now has the accumulated knowledge of prior hosts to break things and look smart with. Not necessarily. Dax had a ballerina host at one point but that didn’t mean Jadzia was constantly pirouetting around the station. Having past knowledge of something doesn’t always mean you’re still capable of doing it.
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Nov 11, 2020 03:47
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The more I think about the Trill, the more questions I have. Jadzia didn't seem to have perfect recall, she somehow wasn't aware of Curzon's true reasons for rejecting Jadzia, and had that one murderer host erased by Big Trill. Do the symbiotes always go straight from host to host or do they return to chill in the pools sometimes? Does the slug have a personality or is it just the accumulated memories of the previous hosts? And just like the DS9 writers I'm going to ignore everything that happened in that one TNG episode with the Trill.
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Nov 11, 2020 03:48
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Not necessarily. Dax had a ballerina host at one point but that didn’t mean Jadzia was constantly pirouetting around the station. Having past knowledge of something doesn’t always mean you’re still capable of doing it. The cello implies otherwise, unfortunately. Arquinsiel posted:It's pretty weird to assume that the Trill leadership stopped hiding that fact just because we saw it revealed, and also that even if they did that at no point did something in the intervening 700-ish years result in that being hidden again or simply changing due to, say, some unforseen pandemic that started killing off viable hosts made significantly worse due to isolation. Again, it's a TV show first and foremost; It's an easy read of them not bothering to glance over the show that actually featured a Trill character and went with cliche mystical society nonsense because it was quick to bash out for a one-off script. DS9 Trill was a heavily science-focused society because they had people with multiple generations of knowledge leading the way, and this looks more like someone took a surface read and went "right; symbiotes, wisdom of the elders, mystic society, break for lunch". The crux of their problem was also most of their supposedly-viable hosts were offworld when ~The Burn~ occurred, so they somehow had a whole lot of symbiotes but no-one to stick them in. That doesn't work when literally half the population should be viable and that fact should be easily discernible when they've apparently tried everything already since then considering a human doctor discovered it by accident with now-ancient basic medical tools. If something had actually occurred to take out the local viable population, it would've come up in the episode because that question sure was gonna hang on it otherwise if the writers actually knew about it. marktheando posted:The more I think about the Trill, the more questions I have. Jadzia didn't seem to have perfect recall, she somehow wasn't aware of Curzon's true reasons for rejecting Jadzia, and had that one murderer host erased by Big Trill. Do the symbiotes always go straight from host to host or do they return to chill in the pools sometimes? Does the slug have a personality or is it just the accumulated memories of the previous hosts? My read on the DS9 Trill symbiotes is they're like an external storage device; Plugging them into a host makes the host feel like the extra memories are theirs while recording the new host's as they experience things, so the host now has got several additional lifetimes of subjectively raising kids, performing concerts, and sitting through boring science lectures to draw from. All the training comes from adjusting to remembering that that bad date in college with a hot girl was actually from fifty years ago and experienced by the previous host. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Nov 11, 2020 |
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Nov 11, 2020 04:05
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Again, it's a TV show first and foremost; It's an easy read of them not bothering to glance over the show that actually featured a Trill character and went with cliche mystical society nonsense because it was quick to bash out for a one-off script. DS9 Trill was a heavily science-focused society because they had people with multiple generations of knowledge leading the way, and this looks more like someone took a surface read and went "right; symbiotes, wisdom of the elders, mystic society, break for lunch". The crux of their problem was also most of their supposedly-viable hosts were offworld when ~The Burn~ occurred, so they somehow had a whole lot of symbiotes but no-one to stick them in. That doesn't work when literally half the population should be viable and that fact should be easily discernible when they've apparently tried everything already since then considering a human doctor discovered it by accident with now-ancient basic medical tools. If something had actually occurred to take out the local viable population, it would've come up in the episode because that question sure was gonna hang on it otherwise if the writers actually knew about it.
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Nov 11, 2020 05:03
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Also I forgot to file my theory that Starfleet moved to Bajor. The new comm badge shape has the oval of the Bajoran one, the admiral's uniform is kind of Bajoran, and being at the wormhole makes strategic sense. Now that modern Trek isn't ignoring that DS9 happened, it's possible. Judging by Michael's reaction to the Mystery Padd it's somewhere we've heard of previously.
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Nov 11, 2020 05:05
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Again, it's a TV show first and foremost; It's an easy read of them not bothering to glance over the show that actually featured a Trill character and went with cliche mystical society nonsense because it was quick to bash out for a one-off script. DS9 Trill was a heavily science-focused society because they had people with multiple generations of knowledge leading the way, and this looks more like someone took a surface read and went "right; symbiotes, wisdom of the elders, mystic society, break for lunch". The crux of their problem was also most of their supposedly-viable hosts were offworld when ~The Burn~ occurred, so they somehow had a whole lot of symbiotes but no-one to stick them in. That doesn't work when literally half the population should be viable and that fact should be easily discernible when they've apparently tried everything already since then considering a human doctor discovered it by accident with now-ancient basic medical tools. If something had actually occurred to take out the local viable population, it would've come up in the episode because that question sure was gonna hang on it otherwise if the writers actually knew about it. It wasn't about viability, it was about breaking tradition. Adira was the proof that they can break their traditions and use hosts that normally wouldn't be considered and it will work.
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Nov 11, 2020 05:08
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Grand Fromage posted:Also I forgot to file my theory that Starfleet moved to Bajor. The new comm badge shape has the oval of the Bajoran one, the admiral's uniform is kind of Bajoran, and being at the wormhole makes strategic sense. Now that modern Trek isn't ignoring that DS9 happened, it's possible. Judging by Michael's reaction to the Mystery Padd it's somewhere we've heard of previously. The new Federation core is Bajor, Cardassia, Q'onos, Ferenginar, and Nuevo Romulus.
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Nov 11, 2020 05:13
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marktheando posted:The more I think about the Trill, the more questions I have. Jadzia didn't seem to have perfect recall, she somehow wasn't aware of Curzon's true reasons for rejecting Jadzia, and had that one murderer host erased by Big Trill. Do the symbiotes always go straight from host to host or do they return to chill in the pools sometimes? Does the slug have a personality or is it just the accumulated memories of the previous hosts? I think the symbiote has its own sentience and personality to some extent, but just doesn't care about humanoid affairs beyond what its host's care about. Joined trills seem to need to do specific rituals to fully access their previous host's experiences. FlamingLiberal posted:Off topic, but I have no clue what they are going to do with Georgiou going forward. She’s just kind of around to act smug and scheme but doesn’t have a goal now. I thought that the arguments between her and Saru in Ep 2 were a start, but she doesn’t do much on this ship except start poo poo with people. She will likely decide that if they are going to be rebuilding the Federation then they should rebuild Section 31, too.
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Nov 11, 2020 05:18
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Lord Krangdar posted:She will likely decide that if they are going to be rebuilding the Federation then they should rebuild Section 31, too. gently caress. That. poo poo. If this show goes 'oh we should rebuild the secret subsection of Starfleet Intelligence that was above morals and regulations and oversight because rogue CIA black ops that can do whatever they loving want are a necessary evil' then gently caress it, I'm out.
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Nov 11, 2020 05:31
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Technowolf posted:The new Federation core is Bajor, Cardassia, Q'onos, Ferenginar, and Nuevo Romulus. It seems like warp sail work in that region too. Both Bajorans and Cardassians know of them and how they work. They could easily retrofit the technology in well less than 120 years. It would make that area far more connected than anywhere else making the Federation there viable. Here's hoping a DS9 fanboy snuk their way into the writing staff.
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Nov 11, 2020 05:35
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MikeJF posted:gently caress. That. poo poo. Somebody has to make the tough choices
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Nov 11, 2020 05:36
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Lord Krangdar posted:
Section 31 is still alive and well, under the steady hand of Bashir whose superior genetics have allowed him to live for cen
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Nov 11, 2020 05:39
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I just woke up on the floor with blood pouring out of my nose, I don't remember posting that at all...?
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Nov 11, 2020 05:40
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The Bloop posted:Somebody has to make the tough choices Hard Men.
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Nov 11, 2020 05:46
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Arquinsiel posted:Again, you seem to be ignoring how much poo poo changes in 700 years. No what hosed them was very specifically The Burn, not general genetic/cultural shift. Some kind of genetic shift being the issue should be pretty drat easy to fix given 700 years of medical advancement considering what was viable at the time of TNG/DS9/VOY. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:It wasn't about viability, it was about breaking tradition. Adira was the proof that they can break their traditions and use hosts that normally wouldn't be considered and it will work. The reason they needed to even consider other species carrying symbiotes was because they somehow had no/few viable hosts of their own left because they were all offworld when The Burn happened and stranded them throughout the galaxy away from Trill. They used to have a shortage of symbiotes to offer (hence the coverup), now it's the inverse problem.
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Nov 11, 2020 05:47
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Duckula posted:So she's Neelix. harsh
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Nov 11, 2020 06:36
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Just watched latest discovery episode. Gray seems nice... Like instant legitimate chill vibes. Very good job by their actor.
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Nov 11, 2020 07:33
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Neddy Seagoon posted:My read on the DS9 Trill symbiotes is they're like an external storage device; Plugging them into a host makes the host feel like the extra memories are theirs while recording the new host's as they experience things, so the host now has got several additional lifetimes of subjectively raising kids, performing concerts, and sitting through boring science lectures to draw from. All the training comes from adjusting to remembering that that bad date in college with a hot girl was actually from fifty years ago and experienced by the previous host. So, you're saying the first host of a fresh symbiont doesn't get any advantages other than being remembered? Sounds a bit crappy if you've been training for joining all your life and then you get a symbiont that doesn't do anything.
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Nov 11, 2020 08:15
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Carbon dioxide posted:So, you're saying the first host of a fresh symbiont doesn't get any advantages other than being remembered? Sounds a bit crappy if you've been training for joining all your life and then you get a symbiont that doesn't do anything. That fits well with them saying most Trill can't be joined. They probably BS some potential hosts and tell them they aren't suitable for full joining but can host a symbiote which is able to remember their memories.
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Nov 11, 2020 08:26
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Carbon dioxide posted:So, you're saying the first host of a fresh symbiont doesn't get any advantages other than being remembered? Sounds a bit crappy if you've been training for joining all your life and then you get a symbiont that doesn't do anything. There is a lot of people that would jump at the chance at that kind of immortality
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Nov 11, 2020 08:27
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