|
it basically comes down to the Huana being well-written vs. the Stormcloaks being under-written. its a lot easier to have sympathy for interesting, well-drawn characters that could be judged as morally reprehensible by some, as opposed to half-finished cardboard cutouts that scream "INSERT RACISM HERE" to the player like, who is the most sympathetic, interesting mouthpiece for the Stormcloaks? Ulfric? hes dull as dishwater, and the opportunities he gets to espouse his worldview are weak as gently caress. doctor iono fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Nov 11, 2020 |
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 03:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:20 |
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Anybody here a Pillars of Eternity fan? dunno if I should ask this in POE2 thread or here but it's more about TES, I think. For one, different modes of production. Most of Tamriel still has feudal relations of production, but had started colonial extraction in Morrowind. The Nords are not a colonised people. But even more, they're not even a conquered people, there is no Nord nation. They share a language, common economy, common land and common history with the Imperials. The Huana are a colonised people. The problems we see with the Huana are magnified by their practices running up against colonialism. Traditional slavery of captured rival tribes people is corrupted by its commercialisation and molded into chattel slavery. The caste system is shown to be significantly different to how it used to be practiced, with the lowest caste now acting as a reserve army of labour instead of fulfilling a specific work role in a tribal scoiety. The Huana's traditional practices aren't 'good', but allowing self-determination and the development of their own forces of production will inevitably see them change their own practices. Rather than even having to change universes the same question could be asked of the Ashlanders and House dunmer, who also show the practice of traditional slavery being corrupted by colonialist extraction into the Hlaalu's system of plantations. It is still right to champion the self-determination of Morrowind, with its struggle against colonial extraction. The Dunmer are a nation due to their different language, culture and history and the rise of a (comprador) bourgeoisie. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Nov 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 04:23
|
|
|
Have not played POE, but I will say that the biggest reason that I don't care for the Stormcloaks (aside from the rampant racism) is mostly because everything that happens in Skyrim is Ulfric's fault. He led the invasion into the Reach that resulted in the Forsworn, he's the one who forces the Empire to actually uphold banning Talos worship as per the White Gold Concordant, and if we assume the Prophecy of the Dragonborn is true then he's the one who summoned Alduin and nearly ended the world by killing Torygg.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 04:34
|
|
|
There's so much wrong with that post. The nords clearly have a different culture than the imperials. They have their own leaders, their own king, a past script, their own beliefs about the afterlife just because they both look like white people doesn't mean they aren't a distinct people. I can't comment on dead fire cause I'm never gonna play it after how bad I got burnt on the first one. Edit: the real answer is probably just that the storm cloaks are poorly written. If it's gonna come down to imperium vs thalmor why would any player rp as someone trying to tear down the only power strong enough to go toe to toe with them. Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Nov 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 04:38
|
|
|
I didn't say they didn't have a distinct culture.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 04:41
|
|
|
Ahhh so they're a separate culture ruled by another culture, in a separate land, with different customs, and religion, and yet they are neither conquered not colonized.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 04:44
|
|
|
extremely good post but tldr that the current Bethesda writing team isn't remotely up to the task of tackling colonialism, or indeed anything impactful at all. i'm actually kinda surprised that they haven't done a big writer shake-up in the last decade, given the way other single player RPGs have been schooling them in the writing department for years now. i understand that this isn't why a ton of people have played these games in the past, but i do think its important going forward from Skyrim (a 9 year old game!) to maybe consider how the RPG medium has evolved in the meantime, and adjust accordingly? I'm not just talking about PoE here (although those games are FANTASTIC), but also the influence of games like Breath of the Wild, which seem to capture the essential magic of open-world games better than any Bethesda project yet released. anyway, all im trying to say is that Bethesda really needs to bring their a-game to their next project, in a way im not the major stakeholders and producers even realize? its so easy for a "prestigious" developer (eg Bioware) to become vestigial and irrelevant within the space of a few years. Bethesda's lack of ambition or passion in the last several years has been extremely concerning, and it feels like goodwill toward them has almost run out. even as successful as skyrim has been, it still feels like the studio is one high-profile failure from utter collapse.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 04:44
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:Ahhh so they're a separate culture ruled by another culture, in a separate land, with different customs, and religion, and yet they are neither conquered not colonized. Exactly. They're not a nation. It's like saying the Scots are a nation. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Nov 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 04:49
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:Ahhh so they're a separate culture ruled by another culture, in a separate land, with different customs, and religion, and yet they are neither conquered not colonized. no? the nords literally were the first people to join tiber septim. they helped him conquer cyrodiil in the first place. of all of the regions of the empire, skyrim is the only one that joined completely without reservation or resistance; they are more Imperial than the imperials WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Exactly. They're not a nation. It's like saying the Scots are a nation. there's a lot of scots that would in fact say they were a nation tho
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 04:56
|
|
|
Simsmagic posted:Have not played POE, but I will say that the biggest reason that I don't care for the Stormcloaks (aside from the rampant racism) is mostly because everything that happens in Skyrim is Ulfric's fault. He led the invasion into the Reach that resulted in the Forsworn, he's the one who forces the Empire to actually uphold banning Talos worship as per the White Gold Concordant, and if we assume the Prophecy of the Dragonborn is true then he's the one who summoned Alduin and nearly ended the world by killing Torygg. My memory is that the Reachmen seized the Reach and then the Jarl asked Ulfric for help and he agreed, under the conditions that Talos worship be legally restored. Because, yes, de jure oppression is still oppression. I've never understood this "Talos repression was lax" argument. An unjust law is an unjust law.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 05:02
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:My memory is that the Reachmen seized the Reach and then the Jarl asked Ulfric for help and he agreed, under the conditions that Talos worship be legally restored. Because, yes, de jure oppression is still oppression. it was a treaty concession forced upon the empire by the altmer, not a law as such. the imperials, who also worship talos, obviously do not want to enforce this, but are not willing to restart the war yet because they lost and the legions would just get rolled again by the thalmor. do you think summerset is going to ignore an independent skyrim and NOT enforce their demand to scrub talos from the pantheon just because skyrim left the empire? eradicating talos worship is one of the key ideological goals of the radical "unmake the world so we can be spirits again" altmer factions. the thalmor want ulfric to succeed so they can directly occupy skyrim and enforce the ban rigorously instead of half-assedly Jazerus fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Nov 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 05:14
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:My memory is that the Reachmen seized the Reach and then the Jarl asked Ulfric for help and he agreed, under the conditions that Talos worship be legally restored. Because, yes, de jure oppression is still oppression. Also you can't get all teary eyed about self-determination right after you brutally put down an indigenous rebellion and executed half the population for disloyalty.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 05:31
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I've never understood this "Talos repression was lax" argument. An unjust law is an unjust law. While it might be unjust keep in mind signing the concordat that banned talos worship saved countless lives, if they hadn't signed god only knows what the Thalmor would've done to their occupied lands.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 05:33
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:it was a treaty concession forced upon the empire by the altmer, not a law as such. the imperials, who also worship talos, obviously do not want to enforce this, but are not willing to restart the war yet because they lost and the legions would just get rolled again by the thalmor. do you think summerset is going to ignore an independent skyrim and NOT enforce their demand to scrub talos from the pantheon just because skyrim left the empire? eradicating talos worship is one of the key ideological goals of the radical "unmake the world so we can be spirits again" altmer factions. The Thalmor don't want anyone to win. They were there at Helgen to try and save Ulfric's life. They want the civil war to drag on as long as possible so both sides are exhausted. A quick, decisive victory for either side is bad for them. Also, on the topic of Nord culture vs. Imperial culture, I recall the first conversation you can overhear with General Tullius and his Nord aide is him bemoaning how he doesn't understand Nord customs and she has to explain everything about Nord culture to him. It would seem unnecessary if Nord and Imperials are functionally indistinct. 7c Nickel posted:Also you can't get all teary eyed about self-determination right after you brutally put down an indigenous rebellion and executed half the population for disloyalty. Well, this just comes down to the original question. The Reachmen practice Hagraven worship and human sacrifice. Is that permissible? Should the Nords allow them to rule when they engage in literal evil magic?
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 05:43
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Also, on the topic of Nord culture vs. Imperial culture, I recall the first conversation you can overhear with General Tullius and his Nord aide is him bemoaning how he doesn't understand Nord customs and she has to explain everything about Nord culture to him. It would seem unnecessary if Nord and Imperials are functionally indistinct. Literally no one said the Nords didn't have a distinct culture. NikkolasKing posted:Well, this just comes down to the original question. The Reachmen practice Hagraven worship and human sacrifice. Is that permissible? Should the Nords allow them to rule when they engage in literal evil magic? Most Tamrielic cultures practice/only recently stopped practicing necromancy. And the Dunmer worship Daedra.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 05:57
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Well, this just comes down to the original question. The Reachmen practice Hagraven worship and human sacrifice. Is that permissible? Should the Nords allow them to rule when they engage in literal evil magic? The historical accounts are that the Independent Reach was administered fairly and the Forsworn weren't as radical until everyone who held any position the the kingdom was put to the sword. Daedra worship is neither illegal or inherently evil (though some are real fuckers).
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 05:58
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Also, on the topic of Nord culture vs. Imperial culture, I recall the first conversation you can overhear with General Tullius and his Nord aide is him bemoaning how he doesn't understand Nord customs and she has to explain everything about Nord culture to him. It would seem unnecessary if Nord and Imperials are functionally indistinct. i definitely never said that nord and imperial culture are functionally indistinct. for that matter, imperial culture is not homogeneous - colovians and nibeneans are both "imperials" to people outside of cyrodiil. what i'm disputing is that the nords are a conquered or colonized people, since they were on board with tiber septim literally from the moment his imperial ambitions began. the nords conquered colovia and nibenay, and installed tiber septim as emperor in cyrodiil. the entire conflict is about whether they are allowed to worship the founder of the empire. tullius being culturally insensitive has very little to do with the wider picture of how the nords fit into the empire quote:The Thalmor don't want anyone to win. They were there at Helgen to try and save Ulfric's life. They want the civil war to drag on as long as possible so both sides are exhausted. A quick, decisive victory for either side is bad for them. why not both they want a long, protracted civil war ending in a stormcloak victory so that the empire continues to be militarily crippled while also providing an opportunity to invade skyrim without the empire being able or, indeed, even willing to come to the aid of the nords
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 06:02
|
|
|
WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Literally no one said the Nords didn't have a distinct culture. Well according to the Morrowind books I read, they "honored" Mephala, Boethiah and Azura in a sense butt they also criticized them as being far inferior and worse than the Tribunal. In any event, perhaps Mephala and Boethiah being the bedrock of their civilization is why it turned out so hosed up in a lot of ways. edit: Jazerus posted:i definitely never said that nord and imperial culture are functionally indistinct. for that matter, imperial culture is not homogeneous - colovians and nibeneans are both "imperials" to people outside of cyrodiil. what i'm disputing is that the nords are a conquered or colonized people, since they were on board with tiber septim literally from the moment his imperial ambitions began. the nords conquered colovia and nibenay, and installed tiber septim as emperor in cyrodiil. the entire conflict is about whether they are allowed to worship the founder of the empire. Okay, I see your meaning now. My bad. 7c Nickel posted:The historical accounts are that the Independent Reach was administered fairly and the Forsworn weren't as radical until everyone who held any position the the kingdom was put to the sword. Daedra worship is neither illegal or inherently evil (though some are real fuckers). I never said Daedric worship was illegal. Hagravens are a special type of evil, though. But fair enough about the rest. And I guess it isn't like the Nords would have said "oh, you don't worship Daedra? You can keep Markarth." NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Nov 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 06:05
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:i definitely never said that nord and imperial culture are functionally indistinct. for that matter, imperial culture is not homogeneous - colovians and nibeneans are both "imperials" to people outside of cyrodiil. what i'm disputing is that the nords are a conquered or colonized people, since they were on board with tiber septim literally from the moment his imperial ambitions began. the nords conquered colovia and nibenay, and installed tiber septim as emperor in cyrodiil. the entire conflict is about whether they are allowed to worship the founder of the empire I'll disagree with this even if the nords installed the first emperor that was thousands of years ago. The center of political power has been shifted to Cyrodil for quite awhile. Clearly the Nords feel their being oppresssed and their grievances not being felt, otherwise why would half of Skyrim be in rebellion.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 06:09
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:I'll disagree with this even if the nords installed the first emperor that was thousands of years ago. The center of political power has been shifted to Cyrodil for quite awhile. Clearly the Nords feel their being oppresssed and their grievances not being felt, otherwise why would half of Skyrim be in rebellion. because their jarls are in rebellion their jarls are in rebellion because ulfric is in rebellion and they consider him to be the rightful king and ulfric is in rebellion because he is a moron who does not understand that if the altmer really come knocking, the legions can't stop them and an independent skyrim definitely can't stop them. ulfric essentially subscribes to the classic "stabbed in the back" theory of military defeat, where the Good and Honorable Nord Legionaries were sold out by the cowardly imperial officers, cutting short a war that could have been won had it just gone on longer. meanwhile, in the real world, the altmer could have just crushed the legions and dismantled the empire if they'd felt like it Jazerus fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Nov 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 06:19
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Well according to the Morrowind books I read, they "honored" Mephala, Boethiah and Azura in a sense butt they also criticized them as being far inferior and worse than the Tribunal. In any event, perhaps Mephala and Boethiah being the bedrock of their civilization is why it turned out so hosed up in a lot of ways. The New Temple has renounced this. Now they've taken up the Ashlander worship of Mephala, Boethiah and Azura directly as the Reclamations, with the Tribunal now simply saints. Gaius Marius posted:I'll disagree with this even if the nords installed the first emperor that was thousands of years ago. The center of political power has been shifted to Cyrodil for quite awhile. Clearly the Nords feel their being oppresssed and their grievances not being felt, otherwise why would half of Skyrim be in rebellion. Because of the Thalmor invasion. Separatism makes no strategic sense in the context. A united front of anti-Thalmor resistance is the only way to address their grievances. It'd make far more sense for them to be attempting to install a new Emperor, or a Grand Council that would reject the White-Gold Concordat than trying to create an artificial nation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 06:29
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:because their jarls are in rebellion Wait, are you saying the Dominion was vastly stronger than the Empire and could have won if they felt like it? I've never heard this. The War was just as hard on the Dominion. Since the topic is autonomous lands resisting the Thalmor, Hammerfell did it and I thought that was because of how exhausted the Dominion was after the war. The more time passes, the more strength the Dominion regains, hence why the Empire's "wait and do nothing' approach is another Stormcloak argument. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Nov 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 07:31
|
|
|
I need to dig up that Kuhlmann take about how in early planning there was a concept for the Thalmor having struck Talos from the pantheon to such a degree that depicting or even thinking about Talos has metaphysical consequences and how the confusing and demoralizing factor of such is a big part of their early success against human provinces. It's a neat concept and adds some actual active urgency to the idea of a Nord uprising.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 07:43
|
|
|
Nina posted:I need to dig up that Kuhlmann take about how in early planning there was a concept for the Thalmor having struck Talos from the pantheon to such a degree that depicting or even thinking about Talos has metaphysical consequences and how the confusing and demoralizing factor of such is a big part of their early success against human provinces. It's a neat concept and adds some actual active urgency to the idea of a Nord uprising. Maybe they wanted to make things more "mundane." Talos banning should be more of a real world, realatable issue instead of something intensely metaphysical. Like how in Dragon Age Origins you had a main plot with a big evil dragon but then you also had the Loghain Plot which was all about morality and political questions. Also in my opinion and experience, the Landsmeet tends to be the far more popular part of DAO's narrative because people can relate to it. Skyrim's Civil War, sadly, was not as good. People still arguing about it though, even beyond me. It touched a nerve in some folks, even if its execution left a lot to be desired. Also, this is only vaguely related, but TES lore never lives up to the reality of the games. I played Morrowind and Skyrim and they seem like fairly "low" fantasy settings. You read some of the books and listen to fans online though and it sounds like the First Age of Arda, not the Second or Third.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 07:58
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Wait, are you saying the Dominion was vastly stronger than the Empire and could have won if they felt like it? I've never heard this. The War was just as hard on the Dominion. Since the topic is autonomous lands resisting the Thalmor, Hammerfell did it and I thought that was because of how exhausted the Dominion was after the war. I've also heard that the Dominion pretended to be in a much stronger bargaining position than they actually had at the end of the war, that they wouldn't have been able to keep up the effort for much longer. NikkolasKing posted:The more time passes, the more strength the Dominion regains, hence why the Empire's "wait and do nothing' approach is another Stormcloak argument. The empire, consisting mainly of humans, can replenish its ranks much faster than the Dominion, who overwhelmingly consist of elves. Elves are notoriously long-lived and as a result likely have much lower birth rates. It's just been a few decades since the Great War. If the empire waits too long they will indeed give away their advantage, but for now they've given time for a new generation or two to grow up, which is exactly what they needed. Aaand then the Stormcloak rebellion happened. 🤷🏼♂️
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 08:04
|
|
|
Morrowind, Oblivion, and the Oblivion DLCs all has high concept metaphysical ideas bolstering any mundane political motions. Oblivion was arguably the least successful of the bunch but at that point hearing the mythophilosophical grandstanding of the antagonists felt like a series mainstay. To the point that Dragonborn brought the high concept undercurrent back and was more interesting for it. Speaking of POE I should try to get into those games because on one hand the setting seems real neat and on the other I want to be in on it by the time Obsidian's TES-a-like comes out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 08:06
|
|
|
ThaumPenguin posted:I've also heard that the Dominion pretended to be in a much stronger bargaining position than they actually had at the end of the war, that they wouldn't have been able to keep up the effort for much longer.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 08:15
|
|
|
Strategically anything but a legion victory seems like a win for the Thalmor because it leaves all the nation states divided, I forget the details but isn't there some secret Imperial alliance with Hammerfell still happening behind the scenes? Although on the other hand if we accept that canonically the Dragonborn joined and rose to the top of every guild they also assassinated the emperor which has gotta be a pretty big morale blow and all. Given how things immediately go to poo poo after Oblivion though I assume the next game will have a real 'as soon as the Dragonborn mysteriously hosed off every surviving military leader from both sides was murdered by Thalmor assassins and everything is super hosed again' etc etc.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 08:23
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Wait, are you saying the Dominion was vastly stronger than the Empire and could have won if they felt like it? I've never heard this. The War was just as hard on the Dominion. Since the topic is autonomous lands resisting the Thalmor, Hammerfell did it and I thought that was because of how exhausted the Dominion was after the war. not vastly stronger, no, but the empire is really in rough shape by the end of the great war, and it wasn't doing so hot beforehand either. i'm not sure the dominion could have conquered tamriel, but i do think they could have conquered cyrodiil, and at that point the empire maybe fractures entirely. ulfric was kicking up trouble, and beginning his rebellion, all throughout the period where the empire needed peace and quiet to out-recover the dominion. the empire is really ridiculously small by the time skyrim the game takes place. if skyrim seceded, the two remaining empire provinces - cyrodiil and high rock - would be completely disconnected from each other, and you maybe end up with a dissolved empire and the dominion as the only multi-province government on the entire continent and this is maybe all fine, if the thalmor weren't super into anti-lorkhanism
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 08:35
|
|
|
Third Empire was never particularly strong with its token presence in many provinces and already shaky internal motions by the time of Morrowind. If anything it's surprising they're still around by Skyrim. Tamriel united under the Empire was never going to last and even with a heavily loaded deck was never truly completed. The fourth era Dominion relies on deft diplomatic maneuvers that depend on their opponents not realizing the true goal is paving the path towards genocide rather than accumulating geopolitical resources. Hence distraction and tactics that revolve around inciting infighting.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 08:43
|
|
|
I absolutely love that Ulfric Stormcloak is a sleeper agent for the Thalmor and that only comes up once ever.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 08:49
|
|
|
Poil posted:Aaand the new generations ended up killing each other pointlessly because of a racist madman who wants power and the elves get to roll around on floor laughing their asses off. aaaand then a Dragonborn with CHIM comes around and they are hosed either way
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 08:57
|
|
|
Third Empire is only around in Skyrim in the provinces that actually like being part of an Empire. Hammerfell did not leave by entirely willing choice. Hell in ESO's time, the Daggerfall Covenant is the one alliance actively trying to bring back the Second Empire.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 13:17
|
|
|
Yeah, Hammerfell was kicked out of the Empire because they refused to abide by the treaty the Empire signed with the Dominion. Specifically the part about letting the Dominion have like half their province. The Empire had to play a quick political game of "poo poo, those guys? we don't even know them. they're not our buddies." e: If Hammerfell didn't want to be a part of the Empire, they'd have kicked the Empire out centuries ago. 4th Era Empire is not exactly projecting force like Tiber Septim's armies complete with dragon like they were at the end of the 2nd Era. Xinder fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Nov 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 13:25
|
|
|
Xinder posted:I absolutely love that Ulfric Stormcloak is a sleeper agent for the Thalmor and that only comes up once ever. Yeah seriously. You have proof or at least plausible suspicions that Ulfric is compromised; this alone should be enough to want to remove him from power ASAP. Secondly, I think Tamriel would be better off under a unified empire than splintered in warring states so it just makes sense to support the Empire, knock the rebellion out ASAP and go for a second round with the Thalmor. Never played deadfire so I can't comment on that, but the Nords always gave me strong "muh sovereignty" vibes of people who are represented in the institutions of the Empire yet revolt against it on some nebulous cause of "freedom" when the empire has been trying its best to guarantee the individual freedoms (eg Thalos worship) as best as possible given the circumstances. The Nords also more or less founded the Empire. This is fundamentally different from decolonization, and more or less comparable to Italy deciding that they no longer feel part of the Roman Empire and secede to kick out all the Greeks because a Greek emperor was unable to stop a third province from seceding and had to accept a treaty that makes worship of the Greco-Roman pantheon nominally forbidden. I understand it, I just think it's short sighted and stupid. Deltasquid fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Nov 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 13:56
|
|
|
Xinder posted:I absolutely love that Ulfric Stormcloak is a sleeper agent for the Thalmor and that only comes up once ever. I’m glad someone else pointed this out. This fact alone should be enough to let anyone know “gently caress Ulfric, his rebellion, and the Nords who follow him.” The only thing that will beat the Thalmor is a united Empire, at least as much as it can be. And also, pretty sure the Empire absolutely gave as much as they got, otherwise the Thalmor would’ve finished them off instead of calling for the Concordat. They still got the better end of that deal by far, but they were getting hammered by trying to fight the war in multiple fronts and needed the temporary truce just as much as the Empire did.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 14:21
|
|
|
Ulfric isn't a Thalmor agent. They're not drip-feeding him orders over some Thuum number's station, or some covert line of spies. He's considered an asset because of what the stormcloak rebellion is doing to the strength of the empire, not because he's working with or directly for the Thalmor. His goals just help the Thalmor's goals. The Thalmor try to intervene when it's crucial, like the execution, but other than that they stay hands off and with no communication. He's a huge piece of poo poo, but he's less cooperative with the Thalmor than the imperials are. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Nov 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 17:49
|
|
|
Todd Howard is a genius
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 18:07
|
|
|
I largely agree that the big difference between the Nords and the Huana is one is colonised and tge other isn't. And the writing quality gulf. I think it's also worth noting that there's baggage when a bunch of pale blonde blue eyed white people start yelling about "Skyrim for the Nords" and building ethnic ghettos. Wolfsheim posted:
Alternatively we warp to after the Thalmor are beaten and the Empire's gone full totalitarian with absolute control of Tamriel.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 18:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:20 |
|
|
Todd Howard is just some guy, and gaming's fixation on visible devs either to praise or vilify them is weird and dumb.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2020 18:19
|
|