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homemade hummus is a life changer plus you get that ~*aquafaba*~
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Nov 10, 2020 11:55
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Store bought hummus uses canola oil as filler which has no favor. The best hummus uses a ton of tahini with a splash of evol.
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Nov 10, 2020 15:19
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The best part about homemaking hummus is that you can use like 3x as much garlic as the storebrands ever use. Being vegan's good and cooking your own food's good as well.
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Nov 10, 2020 15:24
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Hummus is the King of Sandwiches. (and Muhammara the Vizier.)
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Nov 10, 2020 18:00
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Bot 02 posted:So this is something I've been struggling with ever since I first became a vegan and I'd like some input hummus is like getting to the first jhana the second is falafel the third is falafel with hummus for dipping i'm not sure what's after that i didn't get that far yet. ps falafel protip: under no circumstances should you use cooked or canned chickpeas. soak chickpeas for 24 hours then grind them in a food processor with your herbs and spices.
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Nov 10, 2020 18:04
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Nov 10, 2020 22:46
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A fun thing to do with hummus is to eat it
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Nov 10, 2020 23:53
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baw posted:at first youre like "heck yeah hummus" and it becomes a staple food but eventually you move on to other things and eat it less often. if you ever take a vegan cooking class youre almost guaranteed to learn how to make hummus This is where I'm at currently. Initially I liked hummus because of the taste and convenience, but now I have the skill to make things which I just enjoy more.
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Nov 11, 2020 10:37
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 I don't get leftists who aren't vegan. Like what foundation do you base your leftism on that wouldn't also naturally lead to veganism?
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Nov 11, 2020 10:44
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Bot 02 posted:
Mostly I like sour cream and butter. Vegetarians, man. We crazy.
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Nov 11, 2020 14:22
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Bot 02 posted:
Wanting equal rights for all people, not all beings? Being aware of your existence as an individual being one of the very important lines.
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Nov 11, 2020 14:40
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Bot 02 posted:
Utilitarianism, I guess? Like, I think raising a few chickens for eggs is fine, the chickens get vet care and regular food/shelter, so -- if you project a standard human emotional/experiential framework on animals -- they live happier lives than they would in the wild. And there are situations where we've altered the ecosystem so badly that hunting arguably becomes a net good (deer in New England, for example, no longer have natural predators, and have gone through really lovely boom-bust cycles that lead to mass deaths from starvation/disease/parasitism). You could reintroduce predators, or manage the deer population with contraceptives, but that involves making other judgment calls that about what animals think or want that I'm not sure we really have coherent answers for. I think I just really struggle with non-interventionist vegan philosophy and I would be interested in hearing other people's perspectives on this.
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Nov 11, 2020 17:01
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Troutful posted:Utilitarianism, I guess? Like, I think raising a few chickens for eggs is fine, the chickens get vet care and regular food/shelter, so -- if you project a standard human emotional/experiential framework on animals -- they live happier lives than they would in the wild. And there are situations where we've altered the ecosystem so badly that hunting arguably becomes a net good (deer in New England, for example, no longer have natural predators, and have gone through really lovely boom-bust cycles that lead to mass deaths from starvation/disease/parasitism). You could reintroduce predators, or manage the deer population with contraceptives, but that involves making other judgment calls that about what animals think or want that I'm not sure we really have coherent answers for. You only have to "project" that animals are capable of suffering. If I smash a puppy's paw do you think it feels pain? Is it okay if I treated really well before smashing it's paw? Do you think that hen is oblivious to you stealing and eating it's young? Why not just take care of it and not steal it's young when you don't need to eat an egg? Veganism does not mean never eat XYZ ever. It does not mean never ever kill an animal. It's about minimizing suffering. It has nothing to do with a "non-interventionists" philosophy. The act of harvesting crop already leads to the death of animals, but far less than eating meat. Personally, I'm not against certain types of hunting/fishing for conservational purposes--such as fishing lion fish in the Caribbean. Although, I think in your example the answer is to reintroduce natural predators. But the solution to ecological problems is not always simple.
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Nov 11, 2020 18:28
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I mean ok youre a vegetarian, you run/have/buy from a cruelty free farm whatever that actually means so you forcibly impregnate your cow, its baby is male, what are you doing with the calf? once the cow stops milking you got to forcibly impregnate it again, oh another male guess youre going to sell it off for veal like the first one. youve done this for almost a decade now the cow cant have another baby, what are the chances you let the cow live out another 15 years of its natural life on the farm? lots of animal cruelty even if youre a vegetarian whether or not you pat yourself on the back for not eating meat
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Nov 11, 2020 18:37
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Bot 02 posted:
I saw a quote about that. Can't remember enough to find it, though. But it was about how leftism rejects the entitlement of those above to the death and suffering of those below. And if society can't handle that for its food, how can it handle that for its economics when the carrots and sticks are so much more powerful? The former tills the ideological soil for the latter. Jog anyone's memory? I think it was posted as an image macro somewhere in C-SPAM and got empty quoted a bunch.
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Nov 11, 2020 18:48
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Bot 02 posted:
The social aspect of food and drink is a huge part of the lives of most people and I'm not going to stop drinking wine with friends just because I want everybody to have their needs taken care of
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Nov 11, 2020 19:04
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Progress not perfection I suppose. There's no ethical consumption in a capitalist society kind of rings true with vegans - you could extend the suffering argument to clothing, technology, services, etc etc and eventually we'll all be living in communes self sustaining on local agriculture only. Okay sounds good I guess.
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Nov 11, 2020 19:21
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FacelessVoid posted:Do you think that hen is oblivious to you stealing and eating it's young? Maybe? Have you ever raised chickens? Or lived around feral chickens? They eat eggs. I'm honestly not sure whether they care if you take their own eggs. FacelessVoid posted:Why not just take care of it and not steal it's young when you don't need to eat an egg? Because you'll be overrun with chickens if you don't take the eggs and those chickens won't lead good lives. You can outsource the eventual pain and killing to nature. You can intervene and slaughter animals "humanely". Or you can just not raise animals at all, and (I guess) ignore or rationalize the suffering of wild animals. I hope this doesn't sound dismissive. I should mention I'm an insect behavioral geneticist and I've spent a lot of time thinking and writing about insect cognition. The species I study right now is a fly that lays its eggs in the wounds of deer, pigs, rabbits, sometimes people, sometimes dogs. The larvae burrow into the flesh of their hosts and eat them alive. The hosts die without veterinary intervention. I don't need to be convinced that animals have complex emotional lives, let alone the ability to feel pain. What I don't buy is the idea that animals are necessarily worse off on farms than they would be in the wild, even if you kill them before the end of their "natural" (read: artificial, captive) lifespan, even if you feel guilty about it. Nature is brutal!
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Nov 11, 2020 19:37
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the whole reason theyre on the farm is to exploit and then kill them your hypothetical animals wouldnt even exist if people didnt eat/exploit animals Im not sure what youre getting at, are you saying its humans burden to continue to propagate man made animal species? I mean, if the farmer just farmed plants there wouldnt be animals to have it slightly better than being in the wild, which they wouldnt be because theyre specifically bred breeds of species
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Nov 11, 2020 19:47
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It's not a question between "life on a farm" and "life in the wild", it's a question between "life on a farm" and nonexistence. If humans didn't eat farmed animals they wouldn't be living in the forest, but rather they would never have been brought into this world at all. If I had a choice between a short life of guaranteed suffering or just simply not existing, I think I would prefer the latter.
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Nov 11, 2020 20:15
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I like to imagine maybe a lot of the species which have gone extinct due to global warming and destruction of habitat would still be around, heck future extinct animals not going extinct as well would be a plus too
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Nov 11, 2020 20:21
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Slotducks posted:Progress not perfection I suppose. "No ethical consumption under capitalism" applies to consumption which would normally be ethical, but ends up being unethical because of the mode of production (you can't capitalistically produce something without exploiting someone). It does not apply to consumption which is inherently unethical, like for example exploiting and killing an animal just for ones own (taste) enjoyment. That's not right regardless of capitalism status. For another example, take dog fighting. It's a form of entertainment people consume, but nobody tries to defend it with "no ethical consumption under capitalism", rather most people rightly condemn it is unethical because it is so inherently.
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Nov 11, 2020 20:41
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Whats the threads take on animal liberation movements
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Nov 11, 2020 20:48
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Do it ironically posted:the whole reason theyre on the farm is to exploit and then kill them your hypothetical animals wouldnt even exist if people didnt eat/exploit animals Im not sure what youre getting at, are you saying its humans burden to continue to propagate man made animal species? I mean, if the farmer just farmed plants there wouldnt be animals to have it slightly better than being in the wild, which they wouldnt be because theyre specifically bred breeds of species I wouldn't say it's our burden, exactly, but I think you can make a convincing utilitarian argument for (limited) animal agriculture and hunting. Like, I think backyard chickens can pretty easily lead better lives than wild chickens, even after you factor in egg stealing and slaughter. This is kind of an academic discussion given the current hideous reality of industrial farming, though, and I'm sorry if it comes off as concern-trolly. In the real world, for most people, veganism is the right choice. Do people have any thoughts about the social elements of veganism? It was really easy for me to eat vegetarian before the COVID pandemic because 80% of my social group was vegetarian/vegan, so we'd all just cook vegan meals for each other with dairy add-ins. I struggle with not eating meat on my own and I really miss the (mild) social pressure of those communal meals.
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Nov 11, 2020 20:54
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Troutful posted:I wouldn't say it's our burden, exactly, but I think you can make a convincing utilitarian argument for (limited) animal agriculture and hunting. Like, I think backyard chickens can pretty easily lead better lives than wild chickens, even after you factor in egg stealing and slaughter. This is kind of an academic discussion given the current hideous reality of industrial farming, though, and I'm sorry if it comes off as concern-trolly. In the real world, for most people, veganism is the right choice. what's a wild chicken? there aren't any wild birds that lay an egg a day. edit: this is a really dumb post given that i'm not a vegan and don't actually give a gently caress if someone eats backyard chicken eggs/chickens (but gently caress factory farms) IAMKOREA has issued a correction as of 20:59 on Nov 11, 2020 |
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Nov 11, 2020 20:55
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Colonel Cancer posted:Whats the threads take on animal liberation movements On one hand forcing a wild animal like a catte to live with you and be your friend is no different than house slavery, but on the other hand whenever I see a doggo I like to point at it and say "puppy!" if it's heckin cute
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Nov 11, 2020 20:58
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IAMKOREA posted:what's a wild chicken. there aren't any wild birds that lay an egg a day. They were all over the place in Hawaii and they liked to lay (and later eat) eggs in buckets in our backyard. IAMKOREA posted:edit: this is a really dumb post given that i'm not a vegan and don't actually give a gently caress if someone eats backyard chicken eggs/chickens (but gently caress factory farms) lol no worries. gently caress a factory farm
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Nov 11, 2020 21:00
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Troutful posted:Maybe? Have you ever raised chickens? Or lived around feral chickens? They eat eggs. I'm honestly not sure whether they care if you take their own eggs. Cats and dogs will sometimes abandon their litters. Is is safe to say they don't care about their young? No, that would be silly. Chickens do not want they're young stolen. That's why they attempt to hide their eggs and will brood if you keep taking them. They only eat them if their starving or something. I do not have to raised chickens personally to know this. quote:Because you'll be overrun with chickens if you don't take the eggs and those chickens won't lead good lives. You can outsource the eventual pain and killing to nature. You can intervene and slaughter animals "humanely". Or you can just not raise animals at all, and (I guess) ignore or rationalize the suffering of wild animals. Only if you're also keeping a rooster around and allowing them to breed. I don't understand what you mean by "outsourcing". You choose to keep animals on your farm or not. There will be animals in the wild regardless. quote:I hope this doesn't sound dismissive. I should mention I'm an insect behavioral geneticist and I've spent a lot of time thinking and writing about insect cognition. The species I study right now is a fly that lays its eggs in the wounds of deer, pigs, rabbits, sometimes people, sometimes dogs. The larvae burrow into the flesh of their hosts and eat them alive. The hosts die without veterinary intervention. I don't think you're a bad person who has no empathy. If I thought you were I wouldn't bother arguing with you at all. However, you're missing the point. It doesn't matter than you're treating them better than the wild. You are inflicting suffering that is unnecessarily just for the sake of your taste buds. You could let them live on the farm without killing them or eating their young. Or just not raise them at all as other posters have mentioned.
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Nov 11, 2020 21:02
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FacelessVoid posted:Cats and dogs will sometimes abandon their litters. Is is safe to say they don't care about their young? No, that would be silly. if you don't keep a rooster around then how could you possibly be stealing a chicken's young? i get that you've never had chickens before but you know that eggs don't hatch unless a rooster fertilized them, right?
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Nov 11, 2020 21:08
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I would imagine the chicken assumes the eggs will have babies and treat every egg like that though I am no expert in chickens and whether they know if an egg has been fertilized or not
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Nov 11, 2020 21:10
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Do it ironically posted:I would imagine the chicken assumes the eggs will have babies and treat every egg like that though I am no expert in chickens and whether they know if an egg has been fertilized or not they don't care if you take their eggs in my experience. it's not like humans are the only things that eat eggs - snakes, weasels, all sorts of animals will find and eat eggs. in good weather chickens will lay an egg a day. of course we've always had a rooster and let them raise children, too. now if a hawk or fox wants to get one of their chicks, yeah they'll freak the gently caress out - they obviously care a lot about that - but they don't give a poo poo about unhatched eggs. edit: on the subject of backyard chickens, i had a chud co-worker once who was really proud his daughter was in the 4H club. i have no idea what the 4h club is but the impression i got was that it's the cruelty to animals club. this shitheads wife was a veterinarian, so you would have thought he would have known better, but anyway they had some chicken raising project. i guess he bought a bunch of these engineered chickens that factory farms use - the ones that grow huge breasts in a few weeks and can't walk anymore due to their insane bodyweight - and he and his daughter made sure to keep the lights on in their tiny cage 24/7 so that they would gorge themselves on food. they proudly 'processed' them after 8 weeks. goddamn psycopath. gently caress that guy. anyways we just always had heritage breeds like rhode island reds or random bantams and took good care of them, for most people keeping chickens as pets it's really not any different than having a dog or a cat. probably it's better, since you feed them grain and they find their own meat (bugs and stuff in your yard) IAMKOREA has issued a correction as of 21:27 on Nov 11, 2020 |
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Nov 11, 2020 21:15
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IAMKOREA posted:if you don't keep a rooster around then how could you possibly be stealing a chicken's young? By young I just mean the egg. But I get your point. quote:I would imagine the chicken assumes the eggs will have babies and treat every egg like that though I am no expert in chickens and whether they know if an egg has been fertilized or not Yes, this is what I mean. quote:in good weather chickens will lay an egg a day. This is also arguably inflicting suffering since wild chickens only lay a dozen or so eggs a year. They've been bread to produce that many eggs. It's similar to the way people can rationalize dairy because dairy cows have been bread to produce so much milk they want to be milk so it must be okay! FacelessVoid has issued a correction as of 21:35 on Nov 11, 2020 |
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Nov 11, 2020 21:28
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Good video on backyard eggs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YFz99OT18k
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Nov 11, 2020 21:51
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allowing other predators to live is also facilitating the suffering of other creatures, it is our responsibility as the only animals intellectually capable of recognizing the suffering inflicted through predation to eradicate all species that must kill & consume others for sustenance.
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Nov 12, 2020 01:55
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Colonel Cancer posted:Whats the threads take on animal liberation movements ALF and ELF are good.
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Nov 12, 2020 02:33
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Do it ironically posted:I would imagine the chicken assumes the eggs will have babies They do not Do it ironically posted:and treat every egg like that They absolutely do not
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Nov 12, 2020 03:07
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:allowing other predators to live is also facilitating the suffering of other creatures, it is our responsibility as the only animals intellectually capable of recognizing the suffering inflicted through predation to eradicate all species that must kill & consume others for sustenance. Ultimately, we see a lot of suffering caused by the reproduction mechanisms of the flesh, from predation to cancer. The future is steel and silicon, perfect in its beauty, ending suffering.
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Nov 12, 2020 10:22
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one of the things i struggle most with as a vegan is whether or not hunting is unethical in all circumstances so you shoot and kill an old buck. clean shot through the head. yes, you rob it of whatever life it had between the bullet entering its brain and its natural death, but given that its natural death would be starving to death in the winter because its body doesnt store enough fat anymore, is it more humane to just blow their brains out in the fall? i still dont eat meat even from animals killed in the wild but this question still bugs me a bit baw has issued a correction as of 10:36 on Nov 12, 2020 |
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Nov 12, 2020 10:32
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whatever your ethical stance on eating animal products is, the important part is that modern industrial farming is hosed up and it fucks the workers up mentally. even if you dont care about anything else, you should oppose industrial animal production on workers rights alone Ill have a vegan milkshake and a beyond beef burger thank you
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Nov 12, 2020 12:21
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Edmond Dants0000 posted:whatever your ethical stance on eating animal products is, the important part is that modern industrial farming is hosed up and it fucks the workers up mentally. even if you dont care about anything else, you should oppose industrial animal production on workers rights alone Yeah, slaughterhouse work gives people PTSD and is a workers' rights disaster. Besides, discussions of backyard chickens or hunting are largely academic because you can't scale them up, so they're not going to be viable options for feeding the vast majority of the population anyway. We have to abolish the insanely destructive and harmful industrial animal agriculture, and most people are going to have to transition to a plant-based diet to do that. Bot 02 has issued a correction as of 12:56 on Nov 12, 2020 |
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Nov 12, 2020 12:49
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