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Time for a poll in the European regions to settle the question? Kinda worked for defining the Midwest. 
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Nov 17, 2020 22:10
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what the gently caress, Rhode Island?
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Nov 17, 2020 22:28
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What is "The Midwest"?
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Nov 17, 2020 22:28
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SurgicalOntologist posted:What is "The Midwest"? Toronto In the spirit of this thread I will support my claim with my "accent map" 
Starks fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Nov 17, 2020 |
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Nov 17, 2020 22:29
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Poland.
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Nov 17, 2020 22:35
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Time for a poll in the European regions to settle the question? Up to half of central Wisconsin is in denial.
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Nov 17, 2020 22:43
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Time for a poll in the European regions to settle the question? The 5-20% in Centre County PA probably maps directly to the number of out-of-state Penn State students who answered the poll.
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Nov 17, 2020 23:01
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Weembles posted:The 5-20% in Centre County PA probably maps directly to the number of out-of-state Penn State students who answered the poll. Ask people the stupidest thing you can imagine and a good 5-10% of people polled will agree with you, sometimes more.
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Nov 17, 2020 23:30
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 2020 U.S. presidential election map if the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact were in effect
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Nov 18, 2020 06:00
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A problem with the current system is that many people don't vote at all if they're in a red/blue state, Trump would've picked up a lot more votes in CA for example if republicans didn't feel it was useless to vote in that state, but the same would be true for traditionally Red states when it comes to democrats, there's no way of knowing how the election would've turned out with a popular vote system. One thing is for sure though, it would be wildly different and the democrats would've probably won either way
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Nov 18, 2020 16:44
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There's a similar effect with parliamentary democracies where each district is just first past the post, although if they're smaller districts then theoretically they're not as safe and maybe they can't set up the same kind of local autocracy to suppress voters. Although while the electoral college sucks rear end and has let candidates win with far less than 50% of the vote, the UK routinely has parties winning parliament without a majority, and even had an election where parliament was won by 37% of the vote, which mathematically sucks rear end more than a candidate winning with only 46%.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:23
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SlothfulCobra posted:There's a similar effect with parliamentary democracies where each district is just first past the post, although if they're smaller districts then theoretically they're not as safe and maybe they can't set up the same kind of local autocracy to suppress voters. The 2019 Canadian Federal election saw the Liberal party take 33.12% of the vote, and win 157 seats (46%). The Conservative Party took 34.34% of the vote to win only 121 (36%). This happened on the back of Justin Trudeau, leader of the Liberal party, promising to get rid of FPTP after winning a majority in the previous election, then instantly reneging on that. FPTP is hot garbage and needs to be gotten rid of everywhere yesterday.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:37
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Trudeau is two‐faced. He has a white one and a black one.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:41
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Starks posted:Toronto Makes sense. Lower Ontario is very similar to the Great Lakes states. Utica is pushing it, but Upstate NY is similar. Rhode Island is just 
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Nov 18, 2020 17:42
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The irony of USA fight for democracy on the world is that is not a real democracy with multiple political parties where the most voted option wins The founders of USA did not wanted that - they where scared a very popular populist would bring the entire country down - so they designed the system to balance land and people and many other tests And I think the people that currently live in USA like it that way - or we would by now heard a lot of people talking about "fixing the USA constitution"
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Nov 18, 2020 17:44
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Every single election they make noises about changing their system, but it'll never happen due to the importance of 1776 cosplay/worship, so they're stuck with their insane procedure where electors elect electors who elect electors until there's one elector left who may or may not vote for the candidate that (s)he was given a mandate for
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Nov 18, 2020 17:47
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Phlegmish posted:Every single election they make noises about changing their system, but it'll never happen due to the importance of 1776 cosplay/worship, so they're stuck with their insane procedure where electors elect electors who elect electors until there's one elector left who may or may not vote for the candidate that (s)he was given a mandate for Even if a solid majority of people wanted it to happen (which we're probably getting close to) it'll still never happen because the bar for amending the constitution is just too high. The only hope is getting states with at least 270 electoral votes to pass the National Popular Vote Compact. I know they're in the 200s now but not sure how close.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:49
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The Electoral College was intended to prevent people with foreign ties, obviously unfit persons, or demagogues from ascending to the Presidency by riling up the unwashed masses.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:49
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The Canadian case is all the more galling to me, since How To Election isn't written in our constitution anyway, and even if it was the important parts were written in 1982 so we don't pretend it's sacred, just inconvenient to change. I want some proportional representation so bad, but we can't have it because then what would the current political consultant class do??
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Nov 18, 2020 17:50
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Like I said, compare it to parliamentary systems and it's not as weird, even though it still sucks. It's incredibly hard to amend the constitution, although there is a weird way that some states are adopting laws to bypass the electoral college. Tei posted:The founders of USA did not wanted that - they where scared a very popular populist would bring the entire country down - so they designed the system to balance land and people and many other tests I think that's apocryphal. I don't think I've ever seen material from the founding fathers talking about a fear of populism, and the concept of populism wasn't particularly a fixture in politics until after democracies became more popular throughout the world. The US was basically being set up as the first modern democracy back before there was a lot of information about how to do that, and there were a lot of battling factions trying to make sure they didn't somehow get screwed, like the smaller states that wanted to maintain the authority of their local governments, southerners who wanted their slave property to directly translate into more political power, and the wealthier northern states who wanted to create a more powerful state to protect American commerce. We're lucky enough that they at least had enough pretense towards the philosophy of democracy to not assemble the ridiculous setup that medieval Republics had of committees electing committees to elect another committee who would have members chosen by lots to elect a leader from candidates chosen by another committee and every additional stage of procedure is just another chance for bribes and graft.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:06
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I don't even know that I went proportional representation anymore, or at least not as a blanket thing. I realized a while ago the main reason I was in favour of electoral reform was because the parties I vote for don't fare will under the current system. Making my side win more often isn't really a good reason for fundamental changes to the system itself. With PP it would be much easier for parties on the far right to get in, along with the left. I fear the far right a lot more and there's no guarantee the left would balance them out going forward. FPTP definitely sucks though.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:12
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Count Roland posted:I don't even know that I went proportional representation anymore, or at least not as a blanket thing. I mean that is a risk, but conversely I think having FPTP continuously elect the lovely centrist party over and over again is probably driving a lot of the growth of far right popularity to begin with.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:15
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think that's apocryphal. I don't think I've ever seen material from the founding fathers talking about a fear of populism, and the concept of populism wasn't particularly a fixture in politics until after democracies became more popular throughout the world. They didn't specifically refer to populism AFAIK, but the safeguards against the factionalism you mention are what people are extrapolating from. In Federalist 10 Madison spends a lot of time talking about how the unequal division of property was one of the biggest causes of faction, and he didn't want all the unpropertied classes banding together to overthrow the state they were trying to build. It's not hard to see how this movement of the "interested and overbearing majority" of poor people could be related to the concept of populist uprisings.
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Nov 18, 2020 19:22
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Nov 18, 2020 20:23
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Why would Franz Josef Land be included but not Svalbard?
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Nov 18, 2020 21:17
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So where does Andorra fit in all this? Not Europe?
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Nov 18, 2020 21:53
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Deltasquid posted:So where does Andorra fit in all this? Not Europe?
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Nov 18, 2020 22:00
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Kamrat posted:Why would Franz Josef Land be included but not Svalbard?
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Nov 18, 2020 23:31
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A Buttery Pastry posted:African Europe Africa begins at the Pyrenees after all.
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Nov 18, 2020 23:35
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Nov 18, 2020 23:42
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Nov 19, 2020 00:13
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Orange Devil posted:Africa begins at the Pyrenees after all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBNXDXNOKlo
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Nov 19, 2020 13:08
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Orange Devil posted:Africa begins at the Pyrenees after all. Is too bad the romans had not interest in the tribes north of the alps- so these people where never given the gift of civilization Tei fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 13:11
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I thought Africa began at Calais.
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Nov 19, 2020 13:19
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Africa begins at the Tana, and Asia begins at the Awash is a Somali saying.
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Nov 19, 2020 13:33
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Orange Devil posted:Africa begins at the Pyrenees after all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVLh130e5vE&t=2m20s
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Nov 19, 2020 13:58
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This is a glorious trainwreck
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Nov 19, 2020 14:13
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What people forget about the Pyrenees quote is that it wasn't actually ever a popular saying, I'm pretty sure it was just one dude (himself French) who said it, and he meant it more or less as a compliment. PawParole posted:Africa begins at the Tana, and Asia begins at the Awash is a Somali saying. I could totally believe this being true
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Nov 19, 2020 15:10
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Ot was said before the scramble for africa when africa meant exotic riches not economic desperation so yeah i believe that
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Nov 19, 2020 15:20
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My italian is non-existent (my knowledge being entirely based on subtitled episodes of Inspector Montelbano) but is this dude saying that garibaldi broke calabria away from africa, calabria being part of africa by virtue of it's similarity to sicily?
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Nov 19, 2020 16:27
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