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Ethiser posted:Finished. Did I miss something or did Vasher not show up again at all after his fight with Kaladin? I thought he’d at least have a cameo. Also I can’t accept his description of Returned just being fake copies of the original person because it is disrespectful to my boy Lightsong. First question, you didn't miss anything as far as I can tell. Second paragraph. Didn't think about that, but it makes sense based on Kaladin fixing Ishar, especially if he is causing all herald madness with the oathpact
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Nov 19, 2020 04:59
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RC Cola posted:ROW theory Ishar's madness is causing or magnifying all of the herald's madness ROW theory: the reason everyone loves Ishar and trusts him even though he's a loving totally delusional psycho (including Nale! who thinks Ishar is the only sane one!) is that he can freely manipulate their Connection to him (like Syl tells us Dalinar could do between her and Kaladin, except without those pesky boundaries Dalinar has) i do think there's something different about his madness, but he could've just more completely snapped. if it was making other people worse I'd expect folks like Ash to be farther gone, but instead she has a pretty manageable Magic Psychiatric Disorder, limited largely to the compulsion to ironically destroy images of her. but Ishar is by far the farthest gone and he wields what's effectively the most terrifying mental magic of anyone in this magic system (which largely doesn't deal with emotional stuff like allomancy) eke out fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 05:03
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eke out posted:ROW theory: the reason everyone loves Ishar and trusts him even though he's a loving totally delusional psycho (including Nale! who thinks Ishar is the only sane one!) is that he can freely manipulate their Connection to him (like Syl tells us Dalinar could do between her and Kaladin, except without those pesky boundaries Dalinar has) Oh that makes a bunch of sense. I like that more. Also Renarin is up to some shenanigans.
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Nov 19, 2020 05:06
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RoW was certainly the weakest book so far of the Stormlight Archive. I'm don't think it even qualifies as an above average Brandon Sanderson book. Previously I would have given the weakest of this series to Oathbringer, but the problems of Oathbringer pale compared to this one. I get that this is primarily setup for the half-series finale (very like Well of Ascension), but the book itself is a mess in terms of pacing and character development. The ending was enjoyable, but the middle part was an absolute slog. A huge amounts of the content in this book felt like easily cut filler. Many of the characters we have been conditioned to care about are either barely mentioned or feel shuffled off to an unconnected plot with a hasty conclusion. Dalinar, Szeth and Jasnah are barely mentioned in passing. Shallan's story failed to build up and just sort of resolved with an unsatisfying rapidity. Adolin accomplishes what everyone expected him to accomplish and then that arc wraps up with almost zero falling action. All these character stories felt tacked on to fulfill an obligation of their presence, which is unfortunate as I wish more attention was given to them In contrast an unnecessary amount of time is devoted to characters with very little growth who drew minimal interest from me in the story. In particular almost everything set at Urithiru was wearisome. Way too many chapters involving Navani and her fused colleague that could have been cut, as ultimately this plotline just needed to reach the conclusion that Navani is brilliant but has imposter syndrome (good pandering to your fanbase Sanderson). I found it very hard to continue caring about their waveform research. Similarly Venli and Rlain had way too many pages relative to relatively minor payoff. Even Kaladin, by far my favorite character, had too much filler in this book. I enjoyed the continued focus on mental health via Kaladin, but the chapters of him sneaking around Urithiru and fighting hopeless battles felt largely filler. Even the relatively small number of flashback chapters of Venli/Eshonai felt like they were covering a lot of familiar ground. So much filler in Urithiru! Plenty of worldbuilding. Wish there was more focus on characters. Really hoping the next book is a return to form.
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Nov 19, 2020 05:19
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Subvisual Haze posted:RoW was certainly the weakest book so far of the Stormlight Archive. I'm don't think it even qualifies as an above average Brandon Sanderson book. Previously I would have given the weakest of this series to Oathbringer, but the problems of Oathbringer pale compared to this one. I get that this is primarily setup for the half-series finale (very like Well of Ascension), but the book itself is a mess in terms of pacing and character development. The ending was enjoyable, but the middle part was an absolute slog. A huge amounts of the content in this book felt like easily cut filler. All the things you disliked, I loved so to each their own I guess
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Nov 19, 2020 05:37
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RC Cola posted:All the things you disliked, I loved so to each their own I guess makes u think
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Nov 19, 2020 05:38
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RC Cola posted:All the things you disliked, I loved so to each their own I guess same lol, had a great time reading it and also reading people talking about it on the discord, but i am a giant nerd
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Nov 19, 2020 05:40
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I love the Wheel of Time, and this book felt like the part of WoT when it stopped being as focused on individual characters as much, and started being more macro. Nations, history, magic, seeing the villains scheming. Thought on the book. Nightblood is crazy strong. He damaged an Honorblade, closed a perpendicularity, and killed a vessel. What will he do next? Also it was super obvious to me that Kelsier leads the ghostbloods and Taravangian would ascend to Odium. I just thought that would happen next book. Just read this theory. My new pet theory is that the entire shattered planes were made to vibrate with anti-stormlight frequency to shatter honor. One more edit: I said I knew Kaladin would be the leader of the Ghostbloods, but jfc. He's a cognitive shadow. Powered by hemalurgy (blood). Ghost blood. The name makes it even more obvious RC Cola fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 05:45
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Thanks to having to make a long drive today, in just a single day I was able to burn through all of part 3 of Well of Ascension. Really not much to talk about here. This part can be summed up as "Elend is a dumbass and Penrod is now king." That's pretty much all that happens. Elend is so infuriatingly stupid in this part and I hope that something good comes of it because if this whole book is just "lets dumpster Elend's character" then that sucks. Oh yeah, Vin making a dude's head explode was pretty cool.
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Nov 19, 2020 06:54
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Subvisual Haze posted:RoW was certainly the weakest book so far of the Stormlight Archive. I enjoyed the book, but I agree. I have no idea why we needed so many flashbacks to the Listeners or what felt like a million chapters of Navani just doing science and most of the stuff with Dalinar and Jasnah felt like filler. I’ll gladly read as much world building as Sanderson can write, but it’s better when it feels like it has a point in the story.
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Nov 19, 2020 12:16
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I'm unsure if I'd rate it above or below Oathbringer, but I would say it's very Sandersonish and very bloated. If you like Sanderson you'll like this, but there are big sections of the book where it plods along spending hundreds of pages either literally just retelling us stuff we already know with a few extra tidbits thrown in (The Venli/Eshonai flashbacks) or working towards a very obvious payout (Maya talking as the thing that saves Adolin in his trial. It's also VERY Sandersony and while reading you'll spend probably a hundred pages with Navani basically just going "Hey, look at the mechanics of my magic system!" There is some big Cosmere stuff hinted at or implied (Harmony and Wit allying, New Odium, Kelsier being the leader of the Ghostblooded ) and I think we see pretty much every world's magic system represented or mentioned in one way or another whether obviously or in the background (Except maybe Allomancy? Can't remember anything specific about that), plus there are some pretty cool moments so I think this novel will be a love it or hate it. People who are big into Sanderson and how he explains magic and his shared universe will love it, people who just like him because he's an okay fantasy writer who churns out books quick will probably think it's one of his weakest recent efforts.
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Nov 19, 2020 13:00
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Just finished..........The Way of Kings!! It was alright and then the ending was somewhat better but not really that exciting.
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Nov 19, 2020 14:20
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Hmm just thinking about the book for the last day. I think the ultimate antagonist in this series is going to end up being Cultivation. Brandon has been coding her as not a threat for a while, making her female, making her Tanavast/Honours partner, making her hide away for most of the series, giving her a Shard that seems non-threatening but is in fact pretty violent and controlling. He hid the fact that Cultivation has her own type of light until this book. He also makes a big deal in the epigraphs from Sazed/Harmony and the climax with Rayse/Odium that the person holding the shard is only part of the equation, the Shard itself has intent and shapes the person holding it, so much that its really the driver. He also twice raises the point that the Nightmother was cover for Cultivation preparing three people, cultivating them it seems into Shard hosts. Taravingian for Odium Dalinar for Honour And presumably Lift for Cultivation. He’s also raised the point that Cultivation is much better at seeing the future than Odium again, hence making Taravingian the perfect trap for Rayse/Odium. But why? I think Taravingians plan is actually Cultivation’s idea or at least is now her idea. She has transformed Roshar into a garden to grow conquerors to take over the rest of the Cosmere/Reclaim the shards. At this stage the whole board seems to be dancing to her tune, she’s got people she has cultivated in charge of both sides of the conflict. Taravingian and Wit both say the best way to gamble is to win no matter which result comes up and whether Taravingian or Dalinar win the duel, its one of her boys either way. Really feels like he’s laying the groundwork for a big reveal in book 5.
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Nov 19, 2020 14:39
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HidaO-Win posted:Hmm just thinking about the book for the last day.
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Nov 19, 2020 15:09
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Ethiser posted:Right now the biggest mystery to me is the role Lift is supposed to play in Cultivation's plans. Her becoming Cultivation fits the pattern, but it seems like she has a billion steps to take to get to that point. Though I would love to see how she and Sazed would interact. the part i don't see in this theory is why Kora-Cultivation would even need a new vessel. it might be nice to have a backup but frankly Lift does not fit with Cultivation's "elaborate plans within plans that accept that you have to do short-term harm to achieve your long-term goals" modus operandi, Lift isn't a planner and definitely is not a "break a few eggs to make an omelet" type. and it's not like Cultivation's vessel is dying or overtly preparing to die or a mortal that needs a replacement i think that line about 'ask Cultivation why she made a Radiant that runs on Lifelight' is hinting about some other plan entirely. More likely, to me, is that it makes it easier for Lift to leave the Stormlight-driven ecosystem of Roshar and operate as needed elsewhere in the system or in the Cognitive Realm of the system, using only much-more-accessible food as a source of her power eke out fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 15:23
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Ethiser posted:Right now the biggest mystery to me is the role Lift is supposed to play in Cultivation's plans. Her becoming Cultivation fits the pattern, but it seems like she has a billion steps to take to get to that point. Though I would love to see how she and Sazed would interact. She's definitely something, maybe Lift is an attempt at an Investiture battery that can fuel other Surge Binders away from Roshar, but she definitely seems like a piece of Cultivations long term plan
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Nov 19, 2020 16:14
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eke out posted:the part i don't see in this theory is why Kora-Cultivation would even need a new vessel. it might be nice to have a backup but frankly Lift does not fit with Cultivation's "elaborate plans within plans that accept that you have to do short-term harm to achieve your long-term goals" modus operandi, Lift isn't a planner and definitely is not a "break a few eggs to make an omelet" type. and it's not like Cultivation's vessel is dying or overtly preparing to die or a mortal that needs a replacement Makes sense if she can convert food to Lifelight, though she might be only able to convert Roshar grown food to Lifelight. We also didn't really get told how you extract Lifelight to gems
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Nov 19, 2020 16:17
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my current broadest theory that explains everything in Stormlight is Ishar did some totally insane magic and messed everything up re: the Oathpact. Nale even tells us on the night of Gavilar's death that Taln never broke. and now Crazy Ishar says he's the sole bearer of the Oathpact and we know he has unbelievably crazy magic abilities Gavilar is also somehow involved, of course eke out fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 17:25
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I'm digging how Kaladin has pretty much invented group and talk therapy for PTSD/Depression on Roshar. I also pretty much dug his entire arc of dealing with his own personal struggle with it.
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Nov 19, 2020 17:45
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Ishar's power is Connection, so he can artificially make other people regard him as a trusted friend. Pretty well answers the long running question "Why do all the other Heralds trust Ishar and say he isn't mad despite all evidence to the contrary?" Connection is a power with endless abuse potential. There's a good chance Cultivation's vessel might just want out. She's trying to wrap up the forever war, put her chosen in charge of Odium, let Dalinar ascend to hold Honor and then pass the Cultivation shard to a new wielder (Lift maybe) so she can join her ex Tanavast in the afterlife. After all, it was a heavy theme of this book that magical immortality sucks. All the Heralds are insane, unhappy and don't perceive the passage of time. It's an unpleasant endless waking dream. Many of the Fused are also insane, running the gamut from obsessions to jibbering madmen. Many more than anything want themselves or the war to finally end. Hoid's memories are artificial/magical and thus subject to manipulation. Rayse picked his best match of a shard, but was still losing personal control and working at cross-purposes with the shard's passions. Harmony finds it difficult to do much of anything.
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Nov 19, 2020 18:03
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Finished RoW. Some thoughts: Sanderson really likes a writing tactic I’m most familiar with from Stephen Donaldson, the notion of the villains being able to plan and foresee everything and plan around the heroes until surprise! the heroes show they have some unforeseen resolve or virtue that lets them keep going. I can’t even count the number of times it shows up in Stormlight, but it’s a lot. It’s really noticeable with all the stuff about seeing the future being associated with various shards. It’s a technique that gets old, particularly when it happens over and over again with the same characters, a la Kaladin. I wasn’t enamored with the last book, but this one was definitely more disappointing. Way too much filler, and the character beats were really pretty repetitive with where they’ve gone before. Oh Kaladin is depressed again, but this time it’s different from the last three books where we went through this. Etc. I think Sanderson should have condensed this into the “before the break” book instead of drawing it out, as it is this was definitely a minor/filler work.
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Nov 19, 2020 19:05
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Wild to me that people are done RoW already. According to Audible I have a mere 56 hours and 31 minutes left. Going to take a lot of dog walks to finish this one.
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Nov 19, 2020 19:30
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I started the audiobook at 4 am the day it came out listening to it at 1.5 speed until my physical book showed up. Read all day Tuesday, and all day Wednesday. I took a few breaks, but the difference of reading it physically and listening to it is so significant. I definitely am going to re-listen to the entire thing at some point. I pick up and analyze things differently depending on if I'm reading or listening. What if Taravangian's Cultivation boon/curse is reverse feruchemy. Where you borrow attributes from the future instead of storing them. ~Some person on discord It would make sense that he has to be super dumb for a while to make up for the super smart day RC Cola fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 19:39
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Well of Ascension question - does Elend ever stop being a dumbass/annoyingly lawful good in this book? Or does something good ever come out of his dumbassery? I’m starting part 4 today and pretty much everything with Elend has been “I’m a mastermind! OH NO!!!” and it has been getting exhausting.
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Nov 19, 2020 20:17
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Mordiceius posted:Well of Ascension question - does Elend ever stop being a dumbass/annoyingly lawful good in this book? Or does something good ever come out of his dumbassery? I’m starting part 4 today and pretty much everything with Elend has been “I’m a mastermind! OH NO!!!” and it has been getting exhausting. He gets better, but it might not be until next book. He definitely experiences things and changes based on his experiences.
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Nov 19, 2020 20:22
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ROW: Also mentioned a few times before this, was that the Honour Blades were dangerous because they gave access to the surges absent a spren. That really didn't make much sense, they seemed a disadvantage. They were less efficient with Stormlight, they didn't change shape like a living spren. But in this book they reveal part of why they are more dangerous. It seems likely spren limit what you can do with the Surges, you can do the tricks they give you, but more flexibile use of them, like Connecting people to the ground would be outside their purview. That starts to fill in some blanks. However, during the trial of Adolin, they mention Dalinar deadeyesing the Storm Father and also mentioned Dalinar was an Unchained Bondsmith. Which raises a question, does deadeyesing your spren always strip you of your surgebinding? The epigraph of the chapter 94 mentions Kalek knowing the truth of the Recreance and the Nahel bond and Bao-Ado-Mishram. Again, something is up there.
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Nov 19, 2020 22:01
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So Rhythm of War feedback: it kept me engaged enough while reading it, but the more I think about it afterwards the less I like it somehow. Usually it's the opposite. I really dislike the epilogue. I get that it's meant to show the difference between Rayse and T, but being able to access and manipulate memories like that is just a stupid trope and something you really wouldn't expect being possible. Some plotlines were also a bit too long. The flashbacks and parshendi stuff in general was pretty meh. In previous books they explained some mystery, that's not really the case here. That said, it's crazy how much the setting has evolved. A lot of things that were important in book 1 feel completely irrelevant now (shardplates, shardblades, greatshells, shattered plains, alethi diplomacy, ...).
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Nov 19, 2020 22:49
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Walh Hara posted:
To me, it seemed to imply that Wit is using copperminds, and it was established in the Mistborn series that Ruin could affect copperminds, so I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility that Odium could also affect copperminds. Edit: Wait, the epilogue explicitly called out that Breaths were storing the memories, but still, affecting external memories has been possible previously in the setting. MildShow fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 23:10
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doomisland posted:Just finished..........The Way of Kings!! It was alright and then the ending was somewhat better but not really that exciting. Mordiceius posted:Well of Ascension question - does Elend ever stop being a dumbass/annoyingly lawful good in this book? Or does something good ever come out of his dumbassery? I’m starting part 4 today and pretty much everything with Elend has been “I’m a mastermind! OH NO!!!” and it has been getting exhausting.
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Nov 19, 2020 23:16
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MildShow posted:To me, it seemed to imply that Wit is using copperminds, and it was established in the Mistborn series that Ruin could affect copperminds, so I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility that Odium could also affect copperminds. Yeah, I took it as Odium reading all of Hoid's magically stored memories, and then erasing the last 5 minutes. This gives Odium knowledge of the history of the cosmere so he doesn't have to ask about it from other shards, and Hoid has a hint of it, because he's lost enough breathes to lose perfect pitch.
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Nov 19, 2020 23:17
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HidaO-Win posted:ROW: RE Honourblade capabilities: The confirmation that Honourblades are not restricted in the same way as ordinary surges and the mention of Stoneshaping being both restricted by Honour to be far less explosive as well as being capable of atomic manipulation makes me think there are two Honourblades that can basically nuke things.
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Nov 19, 2020 23:24
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CapnAndy posted:I hated Way of Kings for 90% of it and then felt the ending was somewhat okay but I didn't care enough, so I put it down and didn't pick of Words of Radiance until months later. Then I loved WoR and got hooked, so, for what it's worth, I think the first book is by far the weakest and it picks up when characters actually meet up and start having magic powers. Yeah my issue is its just steady the whole way. Kaladin beating the shard wearer was better than the ending scenario which was just What I Expected To Happen. Though the very very end where Dalin vision dropped a "God is Dead" was amusing. I'm 300 pp into the second book so we'll see if I like it better. At this point it seems theyre heavily implying shard stuff is trapped sprens I think? We'll see i'm probably way off e: ok how did I just realize that the king is seeing spren as his would be assassins (right?) doomisland fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 23:59
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Okay, I'm at least a decent way into Part 3 and RoW is starting to grate on me. Navani chapters were cool worldbuilding as a leavening, but an expodump every other chapter with no plot movement is too loving much, and so far at least the flashbacks are no new information. Plus, I'm pretty sure I can see what's going to happen; Adolin's gonna win his case by waking up Maya, Navani's gonna bond the Sibling, tower's gonna wake up, Kaladin will swear the Fourth Ideal and get his Plate, either surprise me or just get there and then the plot can move again.
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Nov 20, 2020 00:52
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RoW Ch 35 - Adolin [and Maya] saving Notum was badass. Shallan wasn't bothering me because she is mostly working 'in control' now, although I'm now questioning my prediction of it being Formless just because I feel like they're belaboring Beryl's innocence, afraid Formless is just gonna feel really tired out after going through Veil and Radiant already but hopefully I'm wrong edit; ok yea while they were away the cube was touched again soooo Sab669 fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 03:23
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Elend Zane  No, I will not be taking questions.
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Nov 20, 2020 04:07
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HOLY poo poo HOLY poo poo A lot I have to parse but just finished Rhythm Of War. Woo, looking forward to reading everyone else’s thoughts and posting some of my own tomorrow.
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Nov 20, 2020 05:04
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row spoilers: Calling my shot: if Dalinar's going to pick up Honor ever, it's going to be when he is standing in Honor's shoes and representing the entirety of the people who follow Honor still -- the duel is the time where he figuratively is Being Honor the most and if you could ever do it, it'd be then
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Nov 20, 2020 05:17
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RoW page 125 I know that ability! Renardin's got malatium aura!
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Nov 20, 2020 05:30
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Bruceski posted:RoW page 125
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Nov 20, 2020 05:38
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Bruceski posted:RoW page 125 i think there's a distinction that radiant Illumination shows people better versions of themselves, in the same way Shallan (largely by accident) used the same surge to show the deserters that they could be so much more
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Nov 20, 2020 05:42
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