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dogstile posted:I'm thinking about setting up coal power tonight. I've found a small bit of water next to my base which i've chucked 5 extractors on, which seems like plenty for now. However the only mine for coal I can see is pretty far away so i'm thinking about tractoring it (also because it seems like it'd be fun). Question is how do I initially get them set up? Do I just grab a stack of coal and chuck it into the truck when doing the route? Is a single tractor's route regular enough for this to even be feasible or should I just belt the drat thing over here? If you ever run out of coal, the truck stops won't unload anymore, so it's even more of a hassle to get going again than a normal blackout already is. Don't use trucks for power.
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Nov 17, 2020 23:54
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Man I want to keep playing but I am still in the “This is early access so I shouldn’t commit much yet” mindset
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Nov 18, 2020 01:27
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Tamba posted:If you ever run out of coal, the truck stops won't unload anymore, so it's even more of a hassle to get going again than a normal blackout already is. Don't use trucks for power. The input / output ports continue to work without power, just the interacting with the vehicle stops working. Which, as you say, is only a problem if you run out of coal. But running out of fuel on anything above bioburners or very small coal plants is an enormous hassle whatever your setup is. You're gonna be pulling the starter cord yourself to restart water extractors or miners, and woe to those who let their turbofuel system run dry. The solution is Don't Run Out of Fuel. That's real easy on coal. Have your coal miners either dedicated to producing for power only, or with smart splitters that prioritize the power. If you have a blackout that's not from turning on a new factory and discovering it draws more power than your grid can handle, that is a basic design failure. Fuel makes this much harder, because oil has many gotchas to jam your system on waste product. I would generally tell people to build enough coal power that their first oil experiments have nothing to do with power generation. That way you can experience how it jams up without killing your grid. Unlucky7 posted:Man I want to keep playing but I am still in the “This is early access so I shouldn’t commit much yet” mindset So far they've been really good at things staying compatible across updates, and their save structure is very amenable to at least loading most of a world even if some items do eventually break. (Ex, loading a save with mod buildings and items in vanilla, the mod stuff just isn't there. It doesn't error out, just drops things it can't define.) OTOH if it's more about not burning out on a game before it's even done, that's a good reason to hold back.
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Nov 18, 2020 04:40
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I personally stopped after I unlocked nuclear power, mainly because I didn't want to build a nuclear power plant when I had no need for all of that power. I'm guessing we'll be getting some super power-hungry buildings in the next major update to justify all of that infrastructure.
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Nov 18, 2020 05:14
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This is honestly why I make a separate power grid just for powering the supply to the main power grid. If your main power grid is consistently over capacity, it's not a problem. But if you're having power drains serious enough that your fuel supply goes slack, you've got a whole faceful of problems when it's all one grid.
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Nov 18, 2020 07:10
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I found the place you guys were talking about. I've got belts from the coal near that lake running to 3 coal generators for now, all running off of one water extractor, so now i have triple the power i used to have. Tempted to cover the entire lake in extractors and foundations so I don't have to worry about power for a while, but eh, another time. That's a lot of concrete and I want to expand my main factory for now.
dogstile fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Nov 18, 2020 |
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Nov 18, 2020 10:53
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Cobbsprite posted:This is honestly why I make a separate power grid just for powering the supply to the main power grid. If your main power grid is consistently over capacity, it's not a problem. But if you're having power drains serious enough that your fuel supply goes slack, you've got a whole faceful of problems when it's all one grid. The question here is, why did you build more generators than your fuel supply can support? That's the real problem, and working around it with backup grids is a high-effort patch that still leaves you with an unstable grid. Build more fuel supply or delete some generators. Don't run out of fuel. Or: Klyith posted:Maybe I can see having some extra generators above your fuel production capacity when you're at the multi-GW level with turbofuel, just to absorb spikes if you have a shitload of trains or something else that produces very uneven power use. But even then there are smarter ways to handle it -- put your surplus generators behind a buffer, with a head lift gate so they can't drain the whole system.
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Nov 18, 2020 15:43
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The reason is that sometimes you don't correctly estimate your power system's supply draw, or your coal input feeds both power plants and steel production. Admittedly it was a problem I had back before pipes, and I could just task a single coal plant to power the mines by giving it a split directly off a coal mine and be assured that it would never have supply issues. But as a principle, it's sound.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:05
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Unlucky7 posted:Man I want to keep playing but I am still in the “This is early access so I shouldn’t commit much yet” mindset What's 500 hours between friends.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:08
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I'm ready. https://twitter.com/SatisfactoryAF/status/1329008907122040832
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Nov 18, 2020 20:21
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When though? I don't see any update
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Nov 18, 2020 20:29
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Do people run their bases at 100% power usage? Its kinda difficult trying to figure out how many coal plants 1 miner can supply when the amount of coal per minute varies so much. I suppose its partially because I'm transferring from biofuel, so if all my burners run out the power shuts off, but if some of them are still going my efficiency goes way up. But then the problem is that you have to watch how much power each machine uses and constantly have to build more power sources as you go, instead of setting up a bunch at once.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:40
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A Moose posted:Do people run their bases at 100% power usage? Its kinda difficult trying to figure out how many coal plants 1 miner can supply when the amount of coal per minute varies so much. I suppose its partially because I'm transferring from biofuel, so if all my burners run out the power shuts off, but if some of them are still going my efficiency goes way up. But then the problem is that you have to watch how much power each machine uses and constantly have to build more power sources as you go, instead of setting up a bunch at once. You always want to leave yourself headroom because it's a HUGE pain in the rear end getting your power back running from scratch if you run a plant empty. Coal shouldn't vary per minute, that's why people are saying don't truck your power.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:44
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When my power usage gets to be about 75% of capacity that's a sign for me to expand it. Since I probably won't do it immediately, I'll build a few things in the meantime so I need to have an earlier breakpoint. Ever since update 3 I've been running my factories at 100%, everything gets thrown into the sink after it hits main storage. Not because I really want the tickets or anything, but because I want to see the machines work and items zipping around on the carefully constructed belt displays that I build.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:49
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Womyn Capote posted:When though? I don't see any update Not until next year, unless they've had a magic breakthrough of some sort. As for that tweet, it could be: 1) nothing but a lightly trolling joke, which the devs of this game will totally do. "Here's the update 4 preview, now in mspaint!" 2) still a joke but indicating that they're gonna start talking about update 4 stuff in their dev streams etc. A Moose posted:Its kinda difficult trying to figure out how many coal plants 1 miner can supply when the amount of coal per minute varies so much. You don't care about the minute-to-minute consumption, you care about the maximum consumption of all generators at 100% power draw. Assuming no OC, those are: Coal generator = 15/m coal, 7.15/m compact coal Fuel generator = 15m3/m fuel, 4.5m3/m turbofuel If you build 5 coal gens off a miner that supplies 60 coal per minute, you are playing with fire. You can try to be smart about it, like by putting a storage container in front of the 5th generator so that when your grid draw is below 300MW the box accumulates extra coal. Then you effectively have a battery to sustain small overages of your grid. But this is dangerous because sustained draw over 300MW will empty the battery box, and then go on to empty the entire system if you haven't set it up intelligently. Then you're hosed because you can't just pull the switch to restart empty generators. You have to go power up the miners yourself to get coal back into them. So you also want your storage box behind a smart splitter that only sends overflow coal into the "battery". And lastly, dealing with this battery idea means you need to be cognizant of what your real sustainable grid is, rather than the number on the power graph. Because when you're approaching that value you need to expand your power grid, even though you haven't had a blackout yet. If you have 3 coal power plants and 2 fuel ones, and each has some extra battery generators, you probably need to keep notes. Conversely, when sticking to only building as many generators as your maximum fuel production can feed at 100% power, you will never run out of fuel. You can blow your grid, and all that means is disconnecting some stuff that eats power and flipping the switch back on. Nothing to track or take notes on, your capacity on the power graph is ground truth. Preferably you expand the rid when you're getting close to maxing it.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:14
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Part of playing a production game is making the conscious decision either to develop formulaic future-proofing for vital resource flows leading to a samey approach to stuff like power generation, or to gleefully embrace chaos and spaghetti with the foreknowledge that if you fail to keep all your plates spinning it's going to be a pain in the rear end to fix ~ e: lookin' at you, Petroleum-Coke-as-byproduct-coal-generator-installation-I-forgot-about
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Nov 18, 2020 22:19
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The way I do coal power - and I haven't progressed past that yet - is I build my coal generators in clusters of 8 (which is the maximum the node can support, and once I upgrade the miner I can just build multiples). Seven connect to the man grid. The last one is connected ONLY to the coal miner, the water extractors for that cluster, any pumps I need to keep the water running, and one or two secondary bioburners I use to kickstart the whole system. (If you toss some coal in by hand into that last generator all you really need is a little bit of power to get a bit of water into the pipes.) The idea is that if I have a blowout on the main grid, that last generator is going to keep the miner and water extractors running and the other seven generators fueled up - so once I fix whatever's causing the problem I can just throw the switch and they'll come back online without me having the schlep myself all the way over to the generator cluster.
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Nov 19, 2020 10:18
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Yeah I'm working out now that it's a giant pain in the rear end now they I've managed to go over my capacity for four coal generators. Guess I'll just disconnect half my factory and build more later tonight. Although for me everything turns on and then 10 seconds later the power dips, it's almost like the water isn't flowing properly.
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Nov 19, 2020 10:26
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dogstile posted:Yeah I'm working out now that it's a giant pain in the rear end now they I've managed to go over my capacity for four coal generators. Guess I'll just disconnect half my factory and build more later tonight. IIRC there's some slight fuckery necessary since a single water pipe can handle only so much throughput. It might be that you have enough water extractors but the pipes can't handle the pressure. https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/File:Coal_Generator_Schematic.png This is the setup I use. Edit: Why do modern sites make it so goddamned hard to link a single picture? Drake_263 fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 10:51
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Yeah i'll likely do the same thing. Technically my water can provide 240 and my 4 generators don't pull that much, but one of them is just refusing to take water. Gonna just tear it all down and build something efficient and expandable. Nothing i've build so far is nice to look at anyway, considering it was my first setup and i just wanted to see how it worked.
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Nov 19, 2020 11:14
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dogstile posted:Yeah i'll likely do the same thing. Technically my water can provide 240 and my 4 generators don't pull that much, but one of them is just refusing to take water. Gonna just tear it all down and build something efficient and expandable. Nothing i've build so far is nice to look at anyway, considering it was my first setup and i just wanted to see how it worked. Are the generators all on the same level, or is the problem unit higher than the others? Water in Satisfactory works kind of weird, instead of pressure you're working with head lift. If the unit or the pipe feeding the unit is too high the extractor won't have enough juice to lift the fluid all the way to the generator. You'd have to add a pump to give it a bit more oomph.
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Nov 19, 2020 13:27
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They're all on the same level but the pipe goes up and then down again. I tried adding a pump but it didn't seem to make a significant change. I'll fix it tonight, just a massive pain in the rear end 
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Nov 19, 2020 14:19
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That might be it. You can't add the pump directly next to the extractor either, it needs to be preferably as high on the pipe where it can still get liquid. I'm doing a bad job of explaining it so here's the wiki entry. https://satisfactory.gamepedia.com/Head_lift
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Nov 19, 2020 15:24
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All this power talk just makes me happy I spent some time finding hard drives and dropping geothermal plants on every possible node. It may not be a ton of power, but it is power that never runs out of fuel. And it gave me the juice I needed to get turbofuel running.
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Nov 19, 2020 16:15
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They changed the model for the refinery and my brain freezes up just looking at it.
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Nov 19, 2020 16:15
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Drake_263 posted:That might be it. You can't add the pump directly next to the extractor either, it needs to be preferably as high on the pipe where it can still get liquid. I'm doing a bad job of explaining it so here's the wiki entry. Oh, that scale explains a few things. Quite a few, in fact. Looks like my "20m" to my eyes and the games actual 20m are slightly different. I don't actually know how it worked at all for as long as it did.
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Nov 19, 2020 16:18
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dogstile posted:Oh, that scale explains a few things. Quite a few, in fact. Looks like my "20m" to my eyes and the games actual 20m are slightly different. I don't actually know how it worked at all for as long as it did. I'm guessing you had one pump that was working, and the other was not contributing due to insufficient head lift. That would lead to the generators working at full power for a bit if they were starting with a full tank of water and then slowly throttling down when their water supply was insufficient like you described. Fixing it up so that the second pump is actually contributing should take care of that.
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Nov 19, 2020 16:35
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Does it make any sense to build "water towers" for your water or other liquid supply? With the new packagers, package the liquid and send it up a hundred meters or something (or whatever's sensible with your terrain), put some storage tanks up there, and then have pipes coming back down to where ever it's needed. I read in this thread some pages back about some weirdness and setups to get around the weirdness in piping, and was wondering if that'd solve anything. This thought occurred to me when I realized my refinery setup was backwards, I have oil/plastic/rubber on the lowest level and I send fuel up a couple of dozen meters.
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Nov 19, 2020 18:53
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boxen posted:Does it make any sense to build "water towers" for your water or other liquid supply? With the new packagers, package the liquid and send it up a hundred meters or something (or whatever's sensible with your terrain), put some storage tanks up there, and then have pipes coming back down to where ever it's needed. I read in this thread some pages back about some weirdness and setups to get around the weirdness in piping, and was wondering if that'd solve anything. Water towers are an exploit of the head lift system, to avoid having masses of pumps when you need a large enough volume of liquid to require lots of pipes.  They're a fun gimmick, but they don't reduce the weirdness of your pipe system. If anything they add to it, as a water tower system requires the pipe network to be connected together at the bottom. More interconnections = more weirdness with pipes. And they're pointless if you only have one pipe worth of fluid going up. You could do a water tower with packagers to pack a fluid, send it up the tower, unpack it, and put it into the buffer. But that's probably not much savings since packagers take 10MW each, and you would need more than 1 pair to avoid your buffer tank potentially draining out. People have also done them with trains to deliver water to the top. And now that we have mk2 pipes, water towers are less useful since you can use half as many pipes. If you build 2 dozen nuke plants you still need a lot of pipes, but you've also got more power than you know what to do with. (I have water towers on a couple of my builds, but a large part of that is because I like the aesthetics. The water tank on top of a factory building is a classic look.) Gadzuko posted:I'm guessing you had one pump that was working, and the other was not contributing due to insufficient head lift. That would lead to the generators working at full power for a bit if they were starting with a full tank of water and then slowly throttling down when their water supply was insufficient like you described. Fixing it up so that the second pump is actually contributing should take care of that. Probably it was right on the edge of head lift, because you actually get bit of margin above the stated 10m or 20m values. But that starts cutting flow rate after 1-2 bonus meters. So this can produce a result where the generators appear to fill up while idle, but the water supply is much less than the extractors say they can produce. Klyith fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 21:02
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Klyith posted:(I have water towers on a couple of my builds, but a large part of that is because I like the aesthetics. The water tank on top of a factory building is a classic look.) This is a main reason why I was thinking about it  Thanks for the rundown.
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Nov 19, 2020 21:15
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Drake_263 posted:The way I do coal power - and I haven't progressed past that yet - is I build my coal generators in clusters of 8 (which is the maximum the node can support, and once I upgrade the miner I can just build multiples). Seven connect to the man grid. The last one is connected ONLY to the coal miner, the water extractors for that cluster, any pumps I need to keep the water running, and one or two secondary bioburners I use to kickstart the whole system. (If you toss some coal in by hand into that last generator all you really need is a little bit of power to get a bit of water into the pipes.) Now that the bottler is a thing, could probably just patch a water bottler into the water supply line and let it fill up one stack, so you can open-palm-slam that stack into an unbottler which is also patched into the standby grid. I will be SO JAZZED when a mod comes out adding mkII biofuel generators with a solid input for biofuel logs ~ I checked the mod manager again after I typed that out, and there's a mod called Refined Power which seems to have buildable burners for every type of fuel, boilers, generators, and chimneys which can be combined in a modular fashion; it doesn't specify whether the biofuel burner is manually loaded or not so I guess I'm going to try to spin up my current-endgame save with this enabled and see if it turbofucks anything! e: not only did it work fine, but also the mod's wiki is not very recent because there's literally just "what if biomass generator but with Added Conveyor Hole (tm)" in Tier 2, 10/10 would recommend LonsomeSon fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 22:05
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LonsomeSon posted:Now that the bottler is a thing, could probably just patch a water bottler into the water supply line and let it fill up one stack, so you can open-palm-slam that stack into an unbottler which is also patched into the standby grid. Does it add anything to make biofuel more viable past the beginning stages of the game? If I was starting a new save, the first thing I would do is race to coal as fast as possible so I would have a consistent source of power that didn't require work on my part to run around gathering leaves and flowers every 30 minutes or so. Unless there was some method of automating the biofuel collection itself like farming trucks or whatever, I would still just completely abandon biofuel and dismantle all the generators after reaching coal. Would still be good for them to add a conveyor belt input though as part of the base game. The constant topping off you have to do in the beginning would be a lot less tedious if you could just dump a bunch of wood in a (storage container > belt > generator) assembly rather than feeding them all single stacks of fuel individually.
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Nov 19, 2020 22:52
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Does it add anything to make biofuel more viable past the beginning stages of the game? NoEyedSquareGuy posted:...so I would have a consistent source of power that didn't require work on my part to run around gathering leaves and flowers every 30 minutes or so. Unless there was some method of automating the biofuel collection itself like farming trucks or whatever, I would still just completely abandon biofuel and dismantle all the generators after reaching coal. There's a different mod for automated farming that solve the leaf & wood collecting part. (What I want is a mod that adds a recipe to make color cartridges without flowers. Polymer + sulfur + packaged water or something like that.)
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Nov 19, 2020 23:26
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This game needs a combination harvester attachment to the truck or preferably the tractor. I would love to take forest-raper mk.11 across the woods to just fill a bunch of bio burners using a truck station and a conveyrable bioburners. In all honesty the woods *have* a ton of potential fuel for a rather large grid this way So it would be a nice middlestep between handfueling a small power grid and making a coal plant. The devs could take a look at Space Engineers where one of the few actually fun things is that the three material transforming functions (welding, grinding, and drilling raw ores) all have a vehicle-mounted version of the tool. Building a small 2-armed welder-grinder ship for scavengung and building large hulls was an awesome way to play futuristshipyard. In Satisfactory this would translate to an automatic paver (feed concrete, define width, start driving and see the foundations spurt out, zamboni-style) and truck-based chainsaw. Hell, a truck-based miner platform would be mostly useless But I would propably still use them just because of the cool factor - basically a self-emptying portable miner with tractor chassis and inventory size.
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Nov 20, 2020 01:32
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Valtonen posted:This game needs a combination harvester attachment to the truck or preferably the tractor. I would love to take forest-raper mk.11 across the woods to just fill a bunch of bio burners using a truck station and a conveyrable bioburners. In all honesty the woods *have* a ton of potential fuel for a rather large grid this way So it would be a nice middlestep between handfueling a small power grid and making a coal plant. Make the horn play "Toxic Love" from Fern Gully.
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Nov 20, 2020 03:27
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Valtonen posted:The devs could take a look at Space Engineers where one of the few actually fun things is that the three material transforming functions (welding, grinding, and drilling raw ores) all have a vehicle-mounted version of the tool. Building a small 2-armed welder-grinder ship for scavengung and building large hulls was an awesome way to play futuristshipyard. This is my miner I made when I was building my last unfinished capital ship.  I think that's like a few hundred or 1k drills. When I used it it would lag the game. I found a cool spot to put it on my capital ship also. Once the game starts lagging its over. Also it was so long it was basically impossible to turn.  This was another smaller pyramid miner that doesn't lag the game when you drill.   This is more a space design, starting on planets I lean toward making towers of ships to only dig downward.  They work good until you dig up too much stone and then they get stuck in the planet forever.  I think satisfactory has drills right, space engineers can let you build drilling rigs that are interesting but for how little ore you get in one spot your better off building a massive drill ship to gurren laggan the area. Here is a drill I made just to see how easy/hard it would be.     I had seen people make these as a huge enlarging circle that slowly hollows out circles for bases and I have seen the neverending self extending drill but the problem is one spot of materials runs the faster the bigger miner you use and the stone your also digging is basically dead weight you gotta dump out the back of the ship or your just gonna clog your refineries up for stone and gravel. Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 06:34
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Does it add anything to make biofuel more viable past the beginning stages of the game? If I was starting a new save, the first thing I would do is race to coal as fast as possible so I would have a consistent source of power that didn't require work on my part to run around gathering leaves and flowers every 30 minutes or so. Unless there was some method of automating the biofuel collection itself like farming trucks or whatever, I would still just completely abandon biofuel and dismantle all the generators after reaching coal. The building is identical in every way to the vanilla Biofuel Burner, except there's a belt input on the side opposite the walkway grating/grinder side of the model (e: also it costs Rotors and Reinforced Iron Plates). There's no extra art to it, so belts just snap to the back side and logs just vanish into nothing without the shadow effect of the FicSit inputs. If the modular stuff is also in as described on the wiki which hasn't been updated in awhile, then there's a Biofuel Heat module listed and it seems like as long as you have all of the modular plant's internal systems circulating correctly it's meant to be able to scale greatly. The burner components just consume fuel to make Heat, which I'm assuming needs to move around with some kind of Heat Pipe; the intention seems to be that you could hook a log burner, two coal burners, and a turbofuel burner together to supply boilers. Apparently, all that poo poo is complicated which is chill with me, the burner with an input is what I was after. LonsomeSon fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 08:13
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Double post but it's been a bit and I've gotten further into Refined Power. If you can find a high place, each Mk1 wind turbine delivers the same megawattage as a biofuel burner and while there aren't any visual cues for their interference radius it turns out that 28 meters isn't much space in the game world. Also, the water turbine nodes which they add to creeks and rivers vary from 'eight megawatts with zero maintenance isn't too bad even if it does require 50 steel pipes and 150 wire' to 'lol just found a waterfall with four 50mW slots.' Before I tracked down and exploited that 200mW waterfall, I was chilling at 240mW of wind and 124mW of water power and my belt-fed biofuel burners were idling, with those plus another 8mW slot I found, I've got 572mW of sustainable power plus 300mW of biofuel as a backup. It's cool since I started in the desert to try the mod out, the closest coal node is 600m away up a giant cliff and then another 6-800m away from the other nearest water source, the western coast which is down another giant cliff, and is merely a Normal. All of that is going to my initial steel, which made the water turbines even possible. Also I don't have it unlocked yet but I've seen the building list and read the tooltips for the Modular Power stuff; as promised it looks like it has a bunch of complication for its own sake.
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Nov 21, 2020 22:27
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Tombot posted:I personally stopped after I unlocked nuclear power, mainly because I didn't want to build a nuclear power plant when I had no need for all of that power. I'm guessing we'll be getting some super power-hungry buildings in the next major update to justify all of that infrastructure. Honestly, while you don't necessarily need to make nuke plants, it saves you from making a lot of fuel generators. I have everything currently available being automated and shoved into at least one storage container. That requires a lot of machines, and having nuke plants makes that easier. On another note, I logged on recently to check out the new pipes. I looked at the mess of pipes, pumps, and just how much work its going to be to get liquids flowing again and just noped out. :v
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Nov 22, 2020 10:15
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Hipster Occultist posted:Honestly, while you don't necessarily need to make nuke plants, it saves you from making a lot of fuel generators. I have everything currently available being automated and shoved into at least one storage container. That requires a lot of machines, and having nuke plants makes that easier. I'll be honest, I'm half tempted to just rework my main power plant to use the new packagers, then start a new save when 1.0 hits and drag the entire plant into that just so I don't have to spend the hours remaking it.
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Nov 22, 2020 10:23
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