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GREAT SATAN posted:how do you lose a k/d war in a game with infinite respawn? how can you lose an isk war in a game with infinite money? don't mind me, just thinking out loud This isn't a traditional MMO. When you die you lose the ship you are flying. That ship costs money. There isn't infinite isk but wells run deep for major coalitions. In a near infinite isk scenario we lose because we are outnumbered 3 to 1. You only have to look back to the Casino War to see that play out. Further, our enemies care about their k/d ratio more than they care about killing us. This mentality nearly precludes them from having the ability to kill us off as their original goals state. They will PASPI on fights that do not give them a huge advantage and they are now afraid to actually fight on our keepstars unless they have jammers up because they saw us throw 20 titans at their super cap fleet in an attempted headshot. They do not trust us to not at least wipe one of them out. Remember this is a group of people that don't actually like each other and cannot even be considered a coalition. They all fear we will headshot one of them which leaves that group removed from the big stage. Finally they also recognize the risk that in a situation where full escalation occurs and we go for a headshot of one alliance then that alliance very well may be targeted by their supposed friends. After all they care about k/d ratios over all else. Which one would decide to not pass up on hundreds of easy kills and then extract their largely intact super fleet. Sorry for the wall of text. I really don't know wtf i'm talking about so take this as just a drunk goon line member sharing his uninformed thoughts. Edit: Snipe.
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Nov 20, 2020 03:50
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No, you're right. Also, their plan was 1. Invade 2. Establish a beachhead 3. ??? They're now in the ??? phase, and it shows.
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Nov 20, 2020 03:56
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Phlegmish posted:No, you're right. Also, their plan was But it's a slow and methodical ???
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Nov 20, 2020 03:57
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they are currently just destroying structures that no one really uses anymore. They were super proud when they killed a sotoyo in O-H and it's like, where is that? Oh, it's next to SVM, cool nice work guys. They did kill the TCAG fortizar triangle which is sad because it was cool but I haven't gone down there since we left months ago.
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Nov 20, 2020 04:14
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They can't effectively kill our org with ingame actions, so that's Vily's win condition already rendered irrelevant. It has been my firm belief for a long time that CCP's ham-fisted management/development of the game has done more to push people away than any war in the game itself.
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Nov 20, 2020 05:21
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Nosthula posted:This isn't a traditional MMO. When you die you lose the ship you are flying. That ship costs money. There isn't infinite isk but wells run deep for major coalitions. In a near infinite isk scenario we lose because we are outnumbered 3 to 1. You only have to look back to the Casino War to see that play out. Further, our enemies care about their k/d ratio more than they care about killing us. This mentality nearly precludes them from having the ability to kill us off as their original goals state. They will PASPI on fights that do not give them a huge advantage and they are now afraid to actually fight on our keepstars unless they have jammers up because they saw us throw 20 titans at their super cap fleet in an attempted headshot. They do not trust us to not at least wipe one of them out. Remember this is a group of people that don't actually like each other and cannot even be considered a coalition. They all fear we will headshot one of them which leaves that group removed from the big stage. Finally they also recognize the risk that in a situation where full escalation occurs and we go for a headshot of one alliance then that alliance very well may be targeted by their supposed friends. After all they care about k/d ratios over all else. Which one would decide to not pass up on hundreds of easy kills and then extract their largely intact super fleet. As a former PL guy, I don't think they're as invested in their K:D ratios as much as you'd think, it's just a lazy metric that says, 'hey! we did a thing' and follows up with a bunch of echo chamber-y dopamine circlejerks (figuratively and literally). I know some of the flags have changed hands a bit, and there's different people in different places, but overall- that whole 'group of people that don't like each other' is super spot on, and the old 'bore the poo poo out of them strategy' is probably the most effective thing you can do. Reminds me of CO2 guy, who's name I can't remember, but he was a loving idiot (he made Lee ChanKa seem stable); having them to bolster numbers was fine, until it wasn't worth putting up with them anymore or their wildcard antics. FYF was probably the most annoying thing to fight under, time is on your side, who actually wants to grind down a metric shitload of keepstars anyway?
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Nov 20, 2020 05:42
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Wibla posted:They can't effectively kill our org with ingame actions, so that's Vily's win condition already rendered irrelevant. Easily. I didn't win EVE twice because an enemy coalition facefucked us and made me feel bad. I won because it's incredibly loving boring. PVE is boring. Sovwanding sucks and pos shotting was as bad if not worse. The big 6000-player fuckoff fleet fights are boring, because you hit a button and walk away for 15 minutes. Small fleet and gang PVP is fun, but a lot of times there's 45 minutes-2 hours' worth of filament jumping, flying around, or sitting on tether waiting for stuff to move around in the background before you actually get a fight. So that's bad enough, but you'll put up with it and set up an income stream somewhere, figure out ratting or mining or industry or whatever, and CCP will do poo poo like introducing space AIDS that makes big fleet logistics and even blackops bridging even more of a pain in the rear end than it was before, or they remove all low-end minerals from null asteroids, or this latest ESS poo poo that yeets 30% of your bounties. The list is endless because they've been making these loving stupid design decisions for more than a decade, even when their player base is like "hey, don't do that, do this instead".
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Nov 20, 2020 05:48
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Yeah, they keep adding more tedious poo poo all the time, for no good reason.
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Nov 20, 2020 05:54
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Wibla posted:Yeah, they keep adding more tedious poo poo all the time, for no good reason. We found mining was tedious, so we introduced Resource Redistribution to start more fights. Mining is still the same tedious poo poo, but now there's even more risk to doing tedious poo poo.
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Nov 20, 2020 05:58
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Going by their sota and recent aggression I think they are in a make or break situation. They went hard at the cluster above 1DQ. They will get hosed up in Esoteria and if they keep getting reset on these ihubs it's not going to end well for them.
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Nov 20, 2020 08:09
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PASSPI and its pets are so afraid of goons that they stuff their FCs into Monitor ships to lead their ~jackdaws~ fleets. It's really the most risk-aversive move against the most powerful alliance in Eve.
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Nov 20, 2020 09:09
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I've barely been paying attention to Eso but is it part of the map that has no ore in the belts? It feels to me they are pushing to move because they know staying in Eso will see them die of attrition.
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Nov 20, 2020 10:11
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Southern Eve is to put it simply, hosed. if a system falls under a truesec level of 4 then there isn't enough ore to get to industry index level 1 by clearing out every single belt in the system, (unless the system has more than 15 belts) due to the amount of minerals removed it's about 35% of space and a lot of it is in the south. Esoteria has a lot of space like that Solus fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 11:54
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As long as moons contribute to the industry index, that's not really a problem?
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Nov 20, 2020 12:16
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Just gotta hope theres some moons worth mining
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Nov 20, 2020 12:17
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Solus posted:Just gotta hope theres some moons worth mining As long as there are moons, there's something to mine on them...
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Nov 20, 2020 12:48
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Solus posted:Southern Eve is to put it simply, hosed. Does that mean if the goons get evicted from Delve it's gonna be exactly like the last time they were evicted from somewhere: The space they were in became crap and the new home becomes some of the most valuable space in new eden? Yknow, asking for a friend 
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Nov 20, 2020 13:20
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West007 posted:Going by their sota and recent aggression I think they are in a make or break situation. They went hard at the cluster above 1DQ. They will get hosed up in Esoteria and if they keep getting reset on these ihubs it's not going to end well for them. What I don't get is, if TEST is slowly getting dislodged in their home region (lmao), while their group outnumbers ours three to one, why don't they ask for help from their 'allies' to push back? Anyway, whoever is doing it in Esoteria, I'm laughing on my rear end forever and big props to them, we should be subsidizing them
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Nov 20, 2020 13:46
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RYYSZLA posted:Does that mean if the goons get evicted from Delve it's gonna be exactly like the last time they were evicted from somewhere: The space they were in became crap and the new home becomes some of the most valuable space in new eden? It turns out the most valuable space we owned was in our own hearts
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Nov 20, 2020 13:52
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There Is a Light That Never Goes Out (In Goons' Eyes)
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Nov 20, 2020 13:56
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Phlegmish posted:What I don't get is, if TEST is slowly getting dislodged in their home region (lmao), while their group outnumbers ours three to one, why don't they ask for help from their 'allies' to push back? Phlegmish posted:Anyway, whoever is doing it in Esoteria, I'm laughing on my rear end forever and big props to them, we should be subsidizing them 
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Nov 20, 2020 14:02
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Phlegmish posted:What I don't get is, if TEST is slowly getting dislodged in their home region (lmao), while their group outnumbers ours three to one, why don't they ask for help from their 'allies' to push back? it's us. well, Bastion and Ferra and the ruskies Bastion lost their fort tonight, though goonswarm was there with a big cerb fleet. TEST lost an awful lot of ships to destroy a fort 6 systems from their home system. They lost more ships than we brought lol https://fleetcom.space/battlereport/d5cwFMiEsQ7LpQnYc Also TEST ran immediately when the fort blew up, so bastion looted the field. They looted back the quantum core lol. They also have an astra on grid, that whole part of eso is within their sov, and i'm sure there's another fort there already. Stereotype fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 14:09
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[nods stoically and updates list of friends who will receive isk from me once I make it big]
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Nov 20, 2020 14:10
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Wibla posted:It's a great distraction and forces TAPI to choose between fights in Delve and getting their infrastructure at home shot But delve is their home now 
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Nov 20, 2020 14:12
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Let us swear a solemn oath that, come what may, we will destroy TEST by any means necessary, as a righteous and karmic act of vengeance.
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Nov 20, 2020 14:13
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Phlegmish posted:Let us swear a solemn oath that, come what may, we will destroy TEST by any means necessary, as a righteous and karmic act of vengeance. We already did, at the start of the war. As soon as the intent to invade Delve was made official, the party line has been "TEST is next." We know they're a coalition of malcontents held together only because their lust for a war with goons outweighs their hatred of each other. The strategy is then to primary by poverty and make the grind as miserable as possible because time is on our side. So shoot TEST at every opportunity we can. Stick Bastion and friends in TEST's backfield. gently caress with "Legacy" alliances to put more pressure on the TAPI side and encourage soured opinions in Panfam and Frat. The result so far is the SOTA and the announcement that TAPI is "moving to Delve." If you're winning the war, why announce you're moving until you have actually won?
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Nov 20, 2020 14:31
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Warmachine posted:The result so far is the SOTA and the announcement that TAPI is "moving to Delve." If you're winning the war, why announce you're moving until you have actually won? Because test has always been a cargo cult gsf, and Vily is larping as DJ.
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Nov 20, 2020 15:05
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Tsed posted:Because test has always been a cargo cult gsf, and Vily is larping as DJ. Not to worry: my question was rhetorical! Warmachine posted:TAPI: Cribbing off goons poorly since 2011
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Nov 20, 2020 15:08
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guys i lead a fleet lol
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Nov 20, 2020 15:12
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Xolve posted:As a former PL guy, I don't think they're as invested in their K:D ratios as much as you'd think, it's just a lazy metric that says, 'hey! we did a thing' and follows up with a bunch of echo chamber-y dopamine circlejerks (figuratively and literally). This is a great counterpoint. I see us doing the same thing.
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Nov 20, 2020 15:15
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Tsed posted:Because test has always been a cargo cult gsf, and Vily is larping as DJ. If goonswarm is the USA, TEST would be Canada
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Nov 20, 2020 15:21
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Rutibex posted:If goonswarm is the USA, TEST would be Canada Bad comparison. Canada is at least mildly competent.
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Nov 20, 2020 15:22
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Is there a write up of the Casino War and the events leading up to it somewhere? Google has a zillion references to it in articles like “the impact of the Casino War”,”Eve since the Casino War” and “”Wow that was totally crazy, wasn’t it?”
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Nov 20, 2020 15:23
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Rutibex posted:If goonswarm is the USA, TEST would be Canada Whoa there buddy let's not say anything we can't take back now eh?
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Nov 20, 2020 15:38
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Did PH really bring more people than Test to kill a fort in Test space....hehe....
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Nov 20, 2020 15:49
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Agrikk posted:Is there a write up of the Casino War and the events leading up to it somewhere? There was a Scott Manley video I want to say it was like an hour long that I enjoyed a lot. I'll see if I can find the link
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Nov 20, 2020 15:50
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ChickenWing posted:Whoa there buddy let's not say anything we can't take back now eh? Dutibex
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Nov 20, 2020 16:10
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Rutibex posted:If goonswarm is the USA, TEST would be Canada Shut your whore mouth
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Nov 20, 2020 17:09
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i'm sorry fellow canucks. i'm canadian so that was a bit of self depreciating humor. i didn't mean anything by it. can i buy you a molsen? we can talk it out over a game of crokinole
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Nov 20, 2020 17:17
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Micromancer posted:There was a Scott Manley video I want to say it was like an hour long that I enjoyed a lot. I'll see if I can find the link There's nothing that happened in that war that can't be summarized as 'Most of EVE pushed Goons out of Deklein, into Saranen, got bored and let them move to Delve'. Aside from a couple of meat grinders featuring FAX, Arty Abaddons vs. several hundered canes, lots of entosis wanding in Marauders, Killlah Bee whining about logi numbers, and the daily welping of 3-12 FAXes- not much else of interest happened.
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Nov 20, 2020 17:17
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