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I don't have time to get into a discussion so please forgive me if this is a 'shitpost and bail' but I feel like it's somehow necessary to point out that people lie all the time? Like, all the loving time? About everything? Even/especially when they really shouldn't? I only found out a few weeks ago that my girlfriend's Australian ex-flatmates lied to the local health department and their level of contact with me (greatly inflating it) because they really wanted it to be taken seriously and to get that test, so after they got their negative test result, due to the amount of contact they said they'd had, they STILL had to quarantine for 2 weeks - and then got mad at me because they had to spend 2 weeks inside. Typical aussie mentality but whatever The point is that even the covid-anxious, pro-"solidarity" (ostensibly anyway), holier than thou hipsters will have no compunction whatsoever to lie to the authorities as soon as they think it might benefit them, even if it's a completely illogical belief. If your two levels are "contact trace" or "lockdown", I still think.. oh, gently caress it, I'm sorry that I won't be able to check back for a while but I'm going to say it anyway. Freebooter I reckon you've got some weird bias and it feels like you'd rather contact trace & then punish "the guilty" than suffer some small inconvenience during a global pandemic. Why are you so obsessed with drawing everything into this strawman of "you want people to wear masks TO SLEEP?? alone in THEIR OWN HOME??" which literally no-one is saying. How can society be 'too stupid to wear masks', and masks 'utterly irrelevant at this stage of spread', when you have an entire state shut down because they were terrified of an outbreak spreading too fast due to one person who lied to the contact tracing people over an absolutely pedestrian lie? Imagine if someone who straight up didn't believe in covid caught it, rather than just some kid who didn't want to get ratfucked by the ATO? What's your personal bias against masks, freebooter? If there were no covid in australia, great, "be alert but not alarmed". But that obviously isn't the situation, that's not the risk posed, and I personally reckon it's bullshit (and all too typical) to try to place society-wide issues on the shoulders of individuals. I'm not going to venture a guess as to why you seem to believe this, but so far I haven't seen anything that makes sense to me in terms of "why masks are so horrible and unnecessary" despite SA going in lockdown due to the risk that covid could theoretically pose (because we just don't understand it that well, especially potential new strains) and the absolutely foreseeable (but not easily preventable) weaknesses of individualised contact tracing
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Nov 20, 2020 12:52
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This really is a great time to be a shut-in. I ordered a new computer chair, was cheap but apparently the brand is dodgy, should be interesting.
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Nov 20, 2020 13:36
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freebooter posted:Absolutely. After what Victoria just went through I don't fault any premier for erring extremely on the side of caution. Nor do I envy them having to make these decisions. I discussed the co-habituating study because it demonstrates just how effective regularized mask wearing is in even extreme cases let alone when when walking past sidewalks full of diners. By the same logic of feeling silly wearing a mask while someone else eats without one, well seatbelts in cars must feel very silly when you see people riding horses or motorbikes. On the hotel thing, I don't really understand what you hope to achieve by making everyone live in temporary hotels instead of permanent ones already built. In Feb and before we knew how bad Covid was going to be (we were planning for Ebola levels of horror with measles level of contagiousness), we built a temporary quarantine facility onsite - concrete plinths and walkways, individual air conditioned rooms opening directly outside, clean and dirty entrances to sections with outside air locks, double fence security with RFID tracking, separate sewage treatment facility etc. It took weeks to bang up but months to finish off properly. It sits empty now and we use local hotels for our entry to site quarantining (despite our own facility being essentially free to use and booking out entire floors of hotels is costing a fortune) because our workers absolutely do not want to live in temporary accommodation. The government officials absolutely don't want to drive outside their city base for daily supervision of our quarantining. Even building the government officials fought tooth and nail against going through the bother or accountability of signing off on land-take, construction approvals, environmental assessments, local landowner / impacted stakeholders engagement and consultation, livelihood restauration etc that goes into building substantial (even if temporary) facilities. It's not just capitalists that don't want to go to all this bother and expense but the public service who you seem to assume want anything at all to do with amount of accountability and the end users who you seem to believe have to suffer so you feel more comfortable without a mask or washing your hands. We were able to do the build because it is part of our business to build villages (generally 1,500 private and government structures a year) complete with all the soft stuff that everyone forgets. In summary, repurposing hotels for quarantine where infrastructure and facilities are already established is an absolute no-brainer compared to starting from scratch temporary facilities. So much so that even if you have well set up purpose built quarantining facilities, it still is better to rent out entire floors of hotels and employ additional staff to support the hotels for quarantining then use temporary facilities.
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Nov 20, 2020 13:56
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bobvonunheil posted:Why is this being framed as a problem with Kevin Rudd's integrity instead of a problem with the government's petition system? Exactly what I was thinking. "Well well! Looks like someone filled this petition with fake signatures! I guess all of the real ones are now meaningless! It's impossible to tell which ones could be real or fake, even though we went into great detail explaining how you would spot a fake one."
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Nov 20, 2020 15:41
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Electric Wrigglies posted:I discussed the co-habituating study because it demonstrates just how effective regularized mask wearing is in even extreme cases let alone when when walking past sidewalks full of diners. This is a good post, but it's half past two in the morning, so etc. But anyway, my original comment was going to be about how the hotel quarantine system up until the Victorian breakout (could have happened anywhere etc) was going to be a mental health and or self harm hotspot, which was mentioned once or twice at the inquiry. How did you deal with getting people in and out of rooms while they were in quarantine, and spacing them while giving outside time? Did it factor into planning much?
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Nov 20, 2020 16:44
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Masks are great and even in a post covid world I hope they become commonplace during flu season. This is probably the first year of my life that I have not had a respiratory ailment of any sort. It’s pretty good.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:13
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hambeet posted:Masks are great and even in a post covid world I hope they become commonplace during flu season. Ditto.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:25
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Wearing a mask when you’ve got a cold just seems like a common courtesy now. I support it.
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Nov 20, 2020 22:35
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There's rumours in health professional circles that the liar in SA was actually selling drugs which I can't find any supporting evidence for but it makes sense why someone might lie in THAT situation.
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Nov 20, 2020 22:55
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hambeet posted:Masks are great and even in a post covid world I hope they become commonplace during flu season. I got a covid test months ago (was just a cold), was talking to someone else in line who worked in the hospital, she said that in our regional area there had been zero (0) cases of influenza since the start of the pandemic. Turns out basic hygiene and everyone getting vaccinated is actually pretty great.
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Nov 20, 2020 23:03
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I want them to leave out all the hand wash sprayers and floor dots after the covid so we can just not have the flu or colds as much anymore.
Flannelette fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 23:59
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Wouldnt at least part of that be that nobody is wasting time testing for the flu currently?
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Nov 21, 2020 00:43
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Solemn Sloth posted:Wouldnt at least part of that be that nobody is wasting time testing for the flu currently? For the two tests I had earlier this year, both times I was called and told I didn’t have COVID, nor did I have any other respiratory illness.
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Nov 21, 2020 01:07
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Zenithe posted:I got a covid test months ago (was just a cold), was talking to someone else in line who worked in the hospital, she said that in our regional area there had been zero (0) cases of influenza since the start of the pandemic. Turns out basic hygiene and everyone getting vaccinated is actually pretty great. We also import new infectious flu strains from the northern hemisphere through tourists and travellers which have all but stopped. Social distancing combined with actual vaccinations for current/future strains leads to a gigantic drop in cases. Other respi viruses took a huge hit besides rhinovirus and adenovirus.
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Nov 21, 2020 01:07
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Actually to clarify, I’m googling and maybe the flu test is separate from covid. Still I would think if someone is negative for covid but still has symptoms they’d test for flu. Or they may do both tests too. Idk
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Nov 21, 2020 01:10
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Solemn Sloth posted:Wouldnt at least part of that be that nobody is wasting time testing for the flu currently? Some places are, eg the main children's hospital in SA, are positively testing for all common respiratory viruses when kids present in ED.
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Nov 21, 2020 01:19
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Word cloud for October:
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Nov 21, 2020 01:28
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hambeet posted:Actually to clarify, I’m googling and maybe the flu test is separate from covid. My wife is a GP in regional NSW and told me that there is next to no influenza testing as there is a shortage of reagents and lab time due to COVID testing. Anyone with flu symptoms gets tested to rule out COVID, that’s pretty much it. Still I’m sure better hygiene and social distancing, including work from home and enforcing people stay away when sick, would have had a significant impact on flu, common cold, and infectious illnesses in general.
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Nov 21, 2020 01:43
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Urcher posted:Word cloud for October: ANY gently caress
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Nov 21, 2020 01:46
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It is starting to come out that one of the contributory factors to our SAS's poor behaviours was a wide spread belief that the Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were themselves illegal. The attitude being if the people at the top are able to lie and break the rules then game on. It is very sobering to note that our leaders must take responsibility for putting our troops in harms way but seem unwilling to take responsibility for putting them in morally perilous positions. Count of moral accountability to date 0.00. Not holding my breath on this either. RB died of heart failure while in his cell overnight on 25 October 2014. The coroner found that the cell alarm system had not been working properly the night RB called for assistance. Fellow inmates said they'd seen the alarm light, but the guards had not been alerted. ISSUES RAISED Medical care required but not all given.
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Nov 21, 2020 02:05
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LABOR VIRUS
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Nov 21, 2020 02:37
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Urcher posted:Word cloud for October: YOURE SYDNEY
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Nov 21, 2020 03:13
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hambeet posted:Actually to clarify, I’m googling and maybe the flu test is separate from covid. Depends on the request and the tests offered that the labs perform them. The pop up COVID clinics will mostly only do COVID - they don't care what else you might be positive for. Plus singleplex COVID tests can be considered quite cheap. A lot of 'like' diseases are multiplexed into the same assay so one test can be performed to get 4 different results. The most important ones before COVID are Flu A, Flu B and RSV, with new commercial tests are coming into the market that combine those 4. Eg - this Point of Care test that's hit the market recently https://www.cepheid.com/coronavirus Parainfluenza, rhinovirus, human metapneumovirus and enterovirus also can be tested for in most extended respivirus panels and bacterial panels sometimes are included that detect pertussis and mycoplasma pnuemoniae.
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Nov 21, 2020 03:48
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yeah my daughter has had like 4 covid tests and then most recent came back with RSV.
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Nov 21, 2020 04:25
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quote:What's your personal bias against masks, freebooter? If there were no covid in australia, great, "be alert but not alarmed". But that obviously isn't the situation, that's not the risk posed, and I personally reckon it's bullshit (and all too typical) to try to place society-wide issues on the shoulders of individuals. I'm not going to venture a guess as to why you seem to believe this, but so far I haven't seen anything that makes sense to me in terms of "why masks are so horrible and unnecessary" despite SA going in lockdown due to the risk that covid could theoretically pose (because we just don't understand it that well, especially potential new strains) and the absolutely foreseeable (but not easily preventable) weaknesses of individualised contact tracing As I've already said, I am very pro-mask in places like America or Europe or Victoria this winter. But wearing them in a region that has eliminated the virus is like wearing a hat to protect you from the sun at night (not my analogy, an epidemiologist's.) Most of Australia has eliminated the virus. You can certainly fairly argue that it was an overreaction for SA to go into such a strict lockdown, but that has nothing to do with masks, because the general population wearing masks wouldn't have prevented it. I mean, it was a hotel quarantine breach - where staff wear masks! I do have a pet peeve around a couple of widespread false assumptions to do with masks which you can easily see around social media: - Masks are a substitute for social distancing - Masks are the reason places like Taiwan or Hong Kong "beat" the virus - Masks were the biggest factor in crushing Victoria's curve (yes, many people really believe this) - Masks are the most effective measure to reduce spread (they're the cheapest, but far from the most effective) quote:it's bullshit (and all too typical) to try to place society-wide issues on the shoulders of individuals. But this is precisely what mask wearing does. It makes COVID prevention an issue of individual responsibility or blame, rather than something to be dealt with and managed through a government response of closed borders, incoming traveller quarantine, and testing and tracing. Which has been a far more successful strategy in this country than in most other Western countries where the public response has been a complete trainwreck, if it exists at all. I don't understand why you think I want to "punish the guilty." Nobody is being "punished" for testing positive for COVID and being required to self-isolate. It's a public health measure. You just complained about your girlfriend's housemates being sooks about it! MythLisp posted:We also import new infectious flu strains from the northern hemisphere through tourists and travellers which have all but stopped. Also hand sanitiser everywhere. The jury still seems to be out on how much COVID is transmitted through fomites, but it's definitely a huge factor for the flu.
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Nov 21, 2020 04:51
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LABOR VIRUS PARTY
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Nov 21, 2020 07:12
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hambeet posted:Masks are great and even in a post covid world I hope they become commonplace during flu season. I also really enjoyed not getting sick in any way over winter for probably the first time in my adult life  What we also need, beyond the normalisation of mask wearing, is to change the culture of "soldiering on" when sick with over the counter drugs which alleviate symptoms but don't do anything about how infectious you are and _especially_ employers who say, "Are you really that sick? Are you sure you can't come in anyway?"
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Nov 21, 2020 13:30
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Megillah Gorilla posted:What we also need, beyond the normalisation of mask wearing, is to change the culture of "soldiering on" when sick with over the counter drugs which alleviate symptoms but don't do anything about how infectious you are and _especially_ employers who say, "Are you really that sick? Are you sure you can't come in anyway?" we'll need adequete sick leave, especially for casuals & contractors, for that to begin though
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Nov 21, 2020 15:14
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Actually what will happen is because sick leave is down this year, employers will point at that and say see people really are calling in when they aren’t sick, and there will be more pressure than ever to keep working.
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Nov 21, 2020 21:39
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Megillah Gorilla posted:What we also need, beyond the normalisation of mask wearing, is to change the culture of "soldiering on" when sick with over the counter drugs which alleviate symptoms but don't do anything about how infectious you are and _especially_ employers who say, "Are you really that sick? Are you sure you can't come in anyway?" When people have made comments like "Covid is just a slightly worse flu" or "It has a 99.99% survival rate, no one is ever this worried about the flu" I share this article https://www.theage.com.au/national/...spPmiEA1becoiZs quote:Stay home if you're sick says minister, as flu cases soar and 31 die (June 17, 2019) It's basically similar stats (maybe not the right word - demographics?) and advice to covid: majority cases in the elderly, recommendation to quarantine yourself (though they don't use that specific term or offer a time frame), and advice to get vaccinated asap. TheMostFrench fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 03:44
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Flannelette posted:I want them to leave out all the hand wash sprayers and floor dots after the covid so we can just not have the flu or colds as much anymore. Can we? Can we? Can we please? Can we just keep up the hand cleaning and social distancing in stores and not shaking hands but bumping elbows instead? Can we keep up the public health campaigns and the coughing into your elbow thing? Can we keep up the definitely not going into work sick thing? Can we just please? And on a more insane note, could we also have 2 weeks in winter where everyone just stays home and doesn't go out? We can call it quarantinemas.
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Nov 22, 2020 14:50
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I also really enjoyed not getting sick in any way over winter for probably the first time in my adult life Last December I had a discussion with a higher up manager of the org I work for during a meeting about how we can "decrease sick leave usage". I asked a question about "Presenteeism" (it's where workplace cultures guilt people into coming to work sick, or they can't afford to go to a doctor to get a certificate). Obviously the issue with this is it causes people around the ill person to become infected therefore increasing the total sum of sick leave used. I asked if managers would have the power to mark staff as "Sick with evidence" if they can see the person is actually ill, and potentially contagious. The answer was a pretty blunt "nope". And then Covid happened. These days if you sneeze you are sent for tests, got the sniffles? Get out. I'm hoping we have another meeting about it this year so I can ask the question again. VVVV loving idiots aren't willing to accept that "normal" got killed by Covid and we've discovered a better way of working. Nutsak fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 21:48
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everyone is loving rip roaring to get back into the office for literally no other reason than to make things 'back to normal' maybe in the CBD it makes sense to push people back 'for the economy' but my office(s) are in the middle of bumfuck nowhere in western Sydney and there is nothing around them to support besides lovely tuckshops that are too far to walk to during your lunch break. we (my team) literally got told we had to be back in the office to prevent other teams utilising 'our' space in the office as those teams had spread out in the office while we worked frome home. that was the only reason given.
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Nov 23, 2020 01:20
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I want facemasks to become a normal fashion accessory, to be worn whenever outside the house even when you aren't sick. Get rid of the flu and complicate facial-recognition software, its all wins.
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Nov 23, 2020 02:48
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Laserface posted:everyone is loving rip roaring to get back into the office for literally no other reason than to make things 'back to normal' I can see why $government wants to force people to go back to the CBD to spend money to prop up businesses, but I don't like it. As one of said people who is being forced, I really don't like it.
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Nov 23, 2020 02:49
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Laserface posted:everyone is loving rip roaring to get back into the office for literally no other reason than to make things 'back to normal' Nutsak posted:loving idiots aren't willing to accept that "normal" got killed by Covid and we've discovered a better way of working. My company has embraced the new normal with open arms and has given us a standing option to work from home. The lease is up on our existing office and we will be looking for somewhere smaller with shared spaces for when we do come in. The are some boomers at management level who can't get their head around the idea that productivity can be measured by how much you achieve as opposed to how long you sit at a desk each day but they can eat poo poo. No doubt we're not the only ones who will be doing this and there are going to be a few commercial landords throwing themselves off their own buildings but they too can eat poo poo.
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Nov 23, 2020 03:18
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The Lone Badger posted:I want facemasks to become a normal fashion accessory, to be worn whenever outside the house even when you aren't sick. Get rid of the flu and complicate facial-recognition software, its all wins. No, it’s loving hot
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Nov 23, 2020 03:23
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Aussies donate blood in record numbers to meet shortfall I know quite a few goons have donated blood in the past week or so. Good work all of you.
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Nov 23, 2020 06:24
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froglet posted:Aussies donate blood in record numbers to meet shortfall Until they stop refusing to take my blood due to mad cow rules, I will be boycotting them by not giving them any of my blood 
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Nov 23, 2020 09:46
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yeah why is mad cow still a thing. can you be a carrier of it or something?
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Nov 23, 2020 11:01
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