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jabby posted:https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1329815610180710401
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Nov 20, 2020 20:27
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Orbital Jewish space station? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAZhtT-dUyo
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Nov 20, 2020 20:28
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jabby posted:https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1329815610180710401 From what I recall correctly Biden grew up in one of the more prominently LGBTQ-friendly neighbourhoods in the US and has been friends with trans people since before it was politically 'acceptable' to be as such.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:30
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Neurolimal posted:Even our fascists have jewish family, and everyone is too busy being racist about black people to be antisemitic on any significant scale. Were you just not paying attention to Charlottesville ("Jews will not replace us") or the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting?
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Nov 20, 2020 20:30
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Yeah, Biden has been saying this kind of thing quite a few times now and it's very encouraging that his social media team are this on board and being allowed to be this forward about it. IDK how he is personally, but this isn't him personally talking, unlike Trump. It's encouraging, cautiously, but he needs to be held to it.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:31
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During the campaign, I believe it was during the town hall / cancelled second debate he spoke about how in the 50s he saw two men kissing when out with his dad and when he was confused his dad imparted on him the importance of understanding that love is love. He said this in response to a mother of a trans girl asking what he would do to protect her daughter and while his story was technically not about trans people, it was something he said informed his world view and promised he would do everything possible in office to make sure both the woman's daughters would be treated equally (the second daughter being cis).
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Nov 20, 2020 20:37
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WhatEvil posted:Of course I don't think anybody has mentioned anything about the concept of the holy land of Jerusalem, yet, which is obviously it's own whole mess. My earnest opinion is that the 'Holy Land', and at the very least the city of Jerusalem, should be a directly UN administered neutral territory. It's just too important to too many groups that are often openly hostile to one another to be governed by a legislature aligned with one or the other of them without things popping off constantly.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:37
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ThomasPaine posted:My earnest opinion is that the 'Holy Land', and at the very least the city of Jerusalem, should be a directly UN administered neutral territory. It's just too important to too many groups that are often openly hostile to one another to be governed by a legislature aligned with one or the other of them without things popping off constantly. I have long thought this. It is so bitterly contested that the only reasonable solution is to have it neutral. This thread is very thought-provoking. (That isn't meant sarcastically).
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Nov 20, 2020 20:44
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Yeah, that seems like the most sensible solution, assuming that you could get people to agree to it.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:51
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Junior G-man posted:
Listening to the pod walking through Lidl only to hear my surname come up! Godfrey Bewicke-Copley is my uncle, and ironically given the topic of the pod my mum is actually his older sister and his eldest kid is his daughter. Fortunately my Mum was helping out at the Edinburgh Festival and decided to take home the Glaswegian who'd just gotten his nose broken in a bar fight rather than some posh bloke.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:51
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Back when I was a dumbass teen who didn't understand poo poo about poo poo I thought the "we should just nuke the middle east if nobody can agree over it" was a viable solution (but let's be clear, this is because I had not thought about or been adequately informed about the situation around Israel at any point at all - I just saw that people were killing each other all over the place and I guess I bought into mainstream/right-wing rhetoric). Thank god I'm not that prick anymore. The "neutral territory" idea there is much better, and doesn't include the deaths of millions of people. Does go to show though that low-effort political thought produces right-wing outcomes. There are studies on it and everything. This is why I believe that actually the British public aren't inherently right-wing, as easy as it may be to believe that, it's just that they've never been made to think about any of this stuff at anything past a surface-level, partially because surface-level analysis and simple narratives sell papers. WhatEvil fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 20:51
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Apparently the French rules will apply to children of all religions not just Muslims, posting seeing as there was a chat about it a bit back. It's still intended to 'fight back against islamic radicalisation' but it's not quite as cartoonishly evil. e: Also on a personal note I càn't help but think the reporting in the UK press is wildly different than if it were the government doing it. I imagine it would be something like "New comprehensive deradicalisation programme coming online in 2021". Private Speech fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 20:53
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Whitey Snipes posted:Were you just not paying attention to Charlottesville ("Jews will not replace us") or the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting? There's 7.5 million jewish americans. 11 dead in the Synagogue shooting (6 injured not counting the culprit), even ADL's inflated measurements count an average of 1700-2000 "antisemitic incidents" across the entire country (1,127 "Harassment", 919 "vandalism", 61 "assault") per year. For comparison, the Gaza rocket attacks regularly injure 50+ people, around 6 dead in 2019. No, the US is not utterly devoid of antisemitism to an absolute degree. But the figures for a nation of 330 million are incredibly low, roughly to the same extent that Israel-Palestine has between its Jewish and Arabic populations (14.9 million combined population). Insert obligatory "one hate crime is too many" statement here.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:53
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multijoe posted:Am I missing something or does this not make any sense? Vacinating 1M a week starting with the elderly, the immuno-compromised and front line workers the low priority healthy 18+ people shouldn't be getting a look in until summer, right? Guavanaut posted:This is good. Biden saying pro-trans things, even if he does gently caress all about them, is still better than Trump saying transphobic things and failing to implement them.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:54
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Private Speech posted:Apparently the French rules will apply to children of all religions not just Muslims, posting seeing as there was a chat about it a bit back. Yes, it was linked by a couple of Twitter accounts that implied that the measures would only apply to Muslim families, when there's no such evidence in the text.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:55
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Guavanaut posted:This is good. Biden saying pro-trans things, even if he does gently caress all about them, is still better than Trump saying transphobic things and failing to implement them. Yeah I mean it's nice words but Rumda posted:Only marginally, it lets people sit back thinking they are being good allies and not look at the ways there are being transphobic generally It's about as effective as twitter mentioning TDOR and they were rightfully savaged for allowing transphobic hate to fester unpunished on their site.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:58
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Neurolimal posted:There's 7.5 million jewish americans. 11 dead in the Synagogue shooting (6 injured not counting the culprit), even ADL's inflated measurements count an average of 1700-2000 "antisemitic incidents" across the entire country (1,127 "Harassment", 919 "vandalism", 61 "assault") per year. For comparison, the Gaza rocket attacks regularly injure 50+ people, around 6 dead in 2019. I mean, the president's legal team rambling about Soros stealing the election for over an hour yesterday does also have its own connotations. To say nothing of McConnell's singling out of Soros and Bloomberg in his election attack ads.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:59
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Neurolimal posted:There's 7.5 million jewish americans. 11 dead in the Synagogue shooting (6 injured not counting the culprit), even ADL's inflated measurements count an average of 1700-2000 "antisemitic incidents" across the entire country (1,127 "Harassment", 919 "vandalism", 61 "assault") per year. For comparison, the Gaza rocket attacks regularly injure 50+ people, around 6 dead in 2019. I guarantee you this is solely because they have easier, more accessible, targets that look less white than most jews, and not because there are very few antisemites.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:05
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Tesseraction posted:I mean, the president's legal team rambling about Soros stealing the election for over an hour yesterday does also have its own connotations. To say nothing of McConnell's singling out of Soros and Bloomberg in his election attack ads. I agree, rhetoric from the conservative leaders here is often full on antisemitic tropes, emboldened by jewish americans heavily leaning Democrat. That is a problem that should be addressed more strongly, as with all bigoted language and tropes. At the same time, Netanyahu's son also regularly posts poo poo like this: https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/netanyahus-son-lashes-out-via-internet-again-504620/amp As well as ranting about "Soros organizations" in equal measure.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:05
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Rumda posted:Only marginally, it lets people sit back thinking they are being good allies and not look at the ways there are being transphobic generally It doesn't make Biden a brave great ally or anything but it's good that his social media team used the pulpit of the president elect for that rather everything Trump did.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:06
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I don't see how you square the circle of "a homeland for [X]" where [X] is any reliigous/ethnic group, without it necessarily resulting in ethno/religious nationalism and apartheid. Like if someone goes around saying that the english need a homeland you would rightly expect them to start banging on about how we're "diluting proper english values" and poo poo, nation states are bad enough without getting into stupid poo poo about some divine right of the right sort of person to have exceptional authority over them. Macron's doing the same thing with an idea of "french-ness" and look where it's going. You can't have a homeland for a certain type of people, we all have to make our homes wherever, and the only thing that keeps us safe is that we get along with the other people who live with us. Enshrining the right of particular people to land and primacy in a nation doesn't work. Your home is where you live, or it should by rights be, so gently caress landlords, gently caress nations, gently caress old books telling us who should live where. You can't put up a border against the world for safety, it doesn't work like that, not in the long term. You want safety, the only way you'll get it is through community with the people around you.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:08
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Guavanaut posted:Sometimes the most powerful part of the Presidency is the bully pulpit. Yes. It changes the environment. It's an authority figure presenting a different view. It doesn't condone and embolden hatred. Actions speak louder than words, sure, but words still have some power. OwlFancier posted:I don't see how you square the circle of "a homeland for [X]" where [X] is any reliigous/ethnic group, without it necessarily resulting in ethno/religious nationalism and apartheid. That why I wrote about not understanding Likud's endgame. How can it lead to any kind of sustainable outcome? If they are so intent on preserving Israel, how does their strategy lead to a long-term peaceful solution? (On the basis that a perpetual conflict is not sustainable). Leaving aside the immorality of it, I don't even see how it works. And the cost to a society of participating in or being complicit in that level of oppression is deeply unhealthy. Even if one doesn't give a gently caress about Palestinians I can't see how it works out well for Israel in the long-term. therattle fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 21:10
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OwlFancier posted:Macron's doing the same thing with an idea of "french-ness" and look where it's going. To be fair I don't follow French politics very closely, but what's all this? Are you just referring to the article that came out earlier?
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Nov 20, 2020 21:12
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Nilbop posted:Yes, it was linked by a couple of Twitter accounts that implied that the measures would only apply to Muslim families, when there's no such evidence in the text. EVERY CHILD A NUMBER is a really annoying bit of hyperbole as well.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:14
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Guavanaut posted:Sometimes the most powerful part of the Presidency is the bully pulpit. until he actually does something he gets 0 credit, trump being worse has zero effect and empty words are just that. By not supporting medicare for all, medical costs and ability to get care being something which disproportionately affects Trans people he is already starting on a negative tally
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Nov 20, 2020 21:14
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Nilbop posted:To be fair I don't follow French politics very closely, but what's all this? Are you just referring to the article that came out earlier? As far as I understand he's basically going to war with muslims internally by demanding they (or "everyone" in theory) subscribe absolutely to what he considers french national and cultural values.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:15
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ThomasPaine posted:My earnest opinion is that the 'Holy Land', and at the very least the city of Jerusalem, should be a directly UN administered neutral territory. It's just too important to too many groups that are often openly hostile to one another to be governed by a legislature aligned with one or the other of them without things popping off constantly. Either way, one of the major issues with the distribution of Israeli territory is definitely the fact that it splits Palestine into three chunks that can only be accessed by crossing Israel. I mean that at least is crazy.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:24
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OwlFancier posted:As far as I understand he's basically going to war with muslims internally by demanding they (or "everyone" in theory) subscribe absolutely to what he considers french national and cultural values. I mean, his country has just gone through a swathe of religious-based terrorist attacks and he's trying to crack down on radicalization by making sure kids go to actual school and mosques don't allow themselves to become dens of radicalization and hate speech. I'm not sure how this is subordinating everyone to "his idea of Frenchness" so much as it's an attempt to stop home-grown radicalization.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:27
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therattle posted:That why I wrote about not understanding Likud's endgame. How can it lead to any kind of sustainable outcome? If they are so intent on preserving Israel, how does their strategy lead to a long-term peaceful solution? (On the basis that a perpetual conflict is not sustainable). Leaving aside the immorality of it, I don't even see how it works. And the cost to a society of participating in or being complicit in that level of oppression is deeply unhealthy. Even if one doesn't give a gently caress about Palestinians I can't see how it works out well for Israel in the long-term. What you have to realise is that they don't know either. They have no long term master plan, they're just doing what works for the moment.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:27
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WhatEvil posted:No they are absolutely not. Seconding this. Plenty of the other racisms get AS folded in as "Jews control the savage <MINORITY> to displace the noble white". That open racism is still pretty niche, even in the South, though because dog whistles work so hard. The structural racism that the dems also support tends to ignore Jews though (at least I've never heard of the cops murdering Jews).
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Nov 20, 2020 21:30
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WhatEvil posted:What you have to realise is that they don't know either. They have no long term master plan, they're just doing what works for the moment. Depressingly I think that’s probably right.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:37
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therattle posted:Yes. It changes the environment. It's an authority figure presenting a different view. It doesn't condone and embolden hatred. Actions speak louder than words, sure, but words still have some power. Likud doesn't give a gently caress about any kind of endgame. It's purely about Bibi drumming up racism to stay in power for as long as possible.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:39
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Tesseraction posted:During the campaign, I believe it was during the town hall / cancelled second debate he spoke about how in the 50s he saw two men kissing when out with his dad and when he was confused his dad imparted on him the importance of understanding that love is love. He said this in response to a mother of a trans girl asking what he would do to protect her daughter and while his story was technically not about trans people, it was something he said informed his world view and promised he would do everything possible in office to make sure both the woman's daughters would be treated equally (the second daughter being cis). Yeah, he repeated this story a lot any time the question of LGBT rights came up, but considering he supported Don't Ask Don't Tell, said gays in the military were a security risk and refused to support gay marriage until it was politically convenient to do so, it's pretty clearly just that: a story. At least he tweets good though!
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Nov 20, 2020 21:46
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therattle posted:Depressingly I think that’s probably right. Disnesquick posted:Likud doesn't give a gently caress about any kind of endgame. It's purely about Bibi drumming up racism to stay in power for as long as possible. The Israeli right's plan is and always has been perpetual conflict where they can make sure they're always on top with PR to keep the rest of the world on board. This sometimes extends to trading favours with other awful regimes - military aid for UN support etc. Pretty sure we have proof at this point of Israel selling weapons/training to the junta in Argentina in the 70s who literally disappeared thousands of jews. The other side of the coin is internally they use enough terrorism (bombing, assassinations, blackmail of LGBT palestinians, crushing protests with overwhelming force, arresting people without trial for months or years on end, not giving palestinians any rights, etc etc etc) to keep palestinians scared and "in their place". That's it, that's the long term plan: "If they don't bother us and do what we say we won't kill them all"
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Nov 20, 2020 21:57
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Rumda posted:until he actually does something he gets 0 credit, trump being worse has zero effect and empty words are just that. By not supporting medicare for all, medical costs and ability to get care being something which disproportionately affects Trans people he is already starting on a negative tally I didn't post it so we could all praise Biden. But the new president legitimising the existence of trans people in his language, and acknowledging they suffer indignity and injustice, is objectively an improvement to the world. People can just be happy about that.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:59
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blues thief posted:Yeah, he repeated this story a lot any time the question of LGBT rights came up, but considering he supported Don't Ask Don't Tell, said gays in the military were a security risk and refused to support gay marriage until it was politically convenient to do so, it's pretty clearly just that: a story. I'm not a fan of Biden (but definitely prefer to Trump). However, people can change their views. To hear my mum (and before he died, my dad) talk you'd think they'd been pro-gay/trans forever and family friends have even said how great it is that we have such understanding and 'liberal-minded' parents. Well mum is now. But back in the 60s, she thought gays should be locked up and dad thought they needed 'sympathy and understanding but stay celibate' (he knew several gay men who had entered monasteries on that basis). My sister and I do find ourselves telling her kids that 'their grandparents were not our parents' in terms of liberality.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:59
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therattle posted:This thread is very thought-provoking. (That isn't meant sarcastically). I guess you could say it.... makes u think
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Nov 20, 2020 22:04
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Miftan posted:The Israeli right's plan is and always has been perpetual conflict where they can make sure they're always on top with PR to keep the rest of the world on board. This sometimes extends to trading favours with other awful regimes - military aid for UN support etc. Pretty sure we have proof at this point of Israel selling weapons/training to the junta in Argentina in the 70s who literally disappeared thousands of jews. The other side of the coin is internally they use enough terrorism (bombing, assassinations, blackmail of LGBT palestinians, crushing protests with overwhelming force, arresting people without trial for months or years on end, not giving palestinians any rights, etc etc etc) to keep palestinians scared and "in their place". That's it, that's the long term plan: "If they don't bother us and do what we say we won't kill them all" I genuinely think this is overthinking things. Bibi has committed a ton of crimes and is basically open for justice as soon as he's out of power. He's clinging on minute by minute as things fall apart around him. The only response of such "leadership" will always be violence.
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Nov 20, 2020 22:08
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Disnesquick posted:I genuinely think this is overthinking things. Bibi has committed a ton of crimes and is basically open for justice as soon as he's out of power. He's clinging on minute by minute as things fall apart around him. The only response of such "leadership" will always be violence. You might be right about bibi specifically, but I was talking about the Israeli right and Likud in general. Pre and post bibi. That's the Israeli "moderate right" btw. It's without getting into the israeli far right who are jewish supremacists, sometimes to the point where if you switch the ethnicities around you couldn't tell them apart from actual nazis.
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Nov 20, 2020 22:12
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therattle posted:(On the basis that a perpetual conflict is not sustainable) lol. why not?
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