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Breezed through vanilla not too bad, enemies became a pushover pretty quickly, so I started a Bob+Angel mod playthrough and holy gently caress I'm really not enjoying this at all. Going to try just Bob's by itself but a lot of the important stuff seems way too gated and was already getting attacked even with a 200% starting safe base radius without coming anywhere close to even having any sort of semblence of a defense. Might be more interesting in the mid-game but early-game was such a slog
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Nov 20, 2020 08:02
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The grogmods like Bobs aren't really designed around you learning them with biters. I'd definitely turn them off or put them on peaceful or something unless you already know exactly what you're supposed to do.
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Nov 20, 2020 08:59
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Qubee posted:Just hit nuclear for the first time ever, it's really fun. Seeing all that excess power and the limitless possibilities I have to expand is a breath of fresh air. But I stupidly wasted 2 nuclear fuel when setting up my new reactor area because of autofill, so the reactors were just burning without anything set up. I'm now scratching my head trying to figure out how to set up a circuit network to only ever feed a single fuel cell into the reactors whenever steam gets below a certain point, but I'm having no luck. My car also got blown up by a train and I lost tonnes of good stuff. Connect steam tanks to the inserter that is taking the spent fuel cell out of the reactor, enable if steam < X, read hand contents, pulse. Connect the inserter putting fuel into the reactor to the other inserter. Enable/disable if "empty fuel cell = 1"
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Nov 20, 2020 09:14
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RabbitWizard posted:Connect steam tanks to the inserter that is taking the spent fuel cell out of the reactor, enable if steam < X, read hand contents, pulse. So simple! I had it wired up to only insert fuel cells when steam was less than 2,000, but it takes a good 30 seconds until temp ramps up enough to bring steam back over that threshold, so my inserters would just keep inserting fuel cells. Cheers for the help. Difference between pulse and hold is pulse shoots out a signal once, like a tick, but hold keeps sending? Why would this setup not work with the spent fuel inserter on hold?
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Nov 20, 2020 09:22
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milward posted:I have not really done anything fancy with trains before but I have decided to try to build some kind of mega base so I want to try the set up where trains go and pick up/drop off when stations have a full load/can recieve a full load. The most dirt simple thing you can do is have as many trains as you have pickup stations (all with the exact same name, e.g. "Iron Ore Pickup") and just tell them to sit there until they have a full load. This will probably result in a lot of idle trains, but idle trains aren't using any fuel. Trains really hate trying to path to a station that already has a train parked in it, especially if it's been there for a while, so in general I don't expect this would result in too many traffic jams so long as the entrance is properly protected by a chain signal so that trains can bypass a stop if the pathing still tries to take them there and it doesn't open up by the time they reach it. The next level of complexity is to wire the stop to all the storage boxes and only enable the station when there's a load ready. This works pretty well in practice early on but can have problems with scaling when 20 trains all rush for the same stop that just opened up (1.1 will address this, see below). Probably the most complicated thing you can do without a) using a mod or b) wiring absolutely everything together, is use an R-S latch so that the stop only opens when, say, the boxes completely fill up, then stay open until the load drops below a full train load. This avoids the problem of multiple trains all going for a single load. 1.1 will add the ability to limit how many trains can be heading for a stop at the same time, controllable by a circuit signal, so presumably you'll be able to do something with an arithmetic combinator to, for example, divide the total in the boxes by the size of a train load to say how many trains can be on the way to that station at once. They've said that trains will keep the reservation even if the signal drops, so if you have 4 train loads and 4 trains on the way, when that first train starts loading and drops the total below 4 full loads, the other 3 trains will still happily try to park there. See FFF#361 for more details. UraniumAnchor fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 09:23
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Qubee posted:Just hit nuclear for the first time ever, it's really fun. ... scratching my head trying to figure out how to set up a circuit network to only ever feed a single fuel cell into the reactors whenever steam gets below a certain point, ... Alternately, install the mod 'Reactor Interface' by our very own GotLag. Link to mod-portal It provides a circuit wire connection point to read the available fuel rods, current temperature, and seconds remaining for current fuel rod. Blends well with vanilla and is something I wish was part of the base game, much cleaner than goofy stock solutions.
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Nov 20, 2020 09:23
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Qubee posted:Just hit nuclear for the first time ever, it's really fun. Seeing all that excess power and the limitless possibilities I have to expand is a breath of fresh air. But I stupidly wasted 2 nuclear fuel when setting up my new reactor area because of autofill, so the reactors were just burning without anything set up. I'm now scratching my head trying to figure out how to set up a circuit network to only ever feed a single fuel cell into the reactors whenever steam gets below a certain point, but I'm having no luck. My car also got blown up by a train and I lost tonnes of good stuff. You really don't need to bother with that. A reactor consumes one fuel cell every 200 seconds. A single centrifuge doing Kovarex produces one U235 per minute, which is 3.33 per 200 seconds. You get 10 fuel cells from one U235, so you could actually support 33 reactors running all the time from just that one centrifuge. And to support that, you need 3 U238 per minute, which you can get from e: forgot that you need U238 for the fuel cell as well, so it's a bit more than that, but the point stands. You will never run out, even when wasting fuel cells. Tamba fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 09:30
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Qubee posted:So simple! I had it wired up to only insert fuel cells when steam was less than 2,000, but it takes a good 30 seconds until temp ramps up enough to bring steam back over that threshold, so my inserters would just keep inserting fuel cells. Cheers for the help. Difference between pulse and hold is pulse shoots out a signal once, like a tick, but hold keeps sending? Why would this setup not work with the spent fuel inserter on hold? And yes, pulse is sent only for one tick, it is the "do once" function. Hold would send the signal every tick from picking up the empty cell until it is dropped in the chest. Teledahn posted:Alternately, install the mod 'Reactor Interface' by our very own GotLag. Link to mod-portal It provides a circuit wire connection point to read the available fuel rods, current temperature, and seconds remaining for current fuel rod. Blends well with vanilla and is something I wish was part of the base game, much cleaner than goofy stock solutions. Tamba posted:You really don't need to bother with that. Yeah, I think I have over 50k U235 by now and it doesn't really matter. Definitely the easiest solution.
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Nov 20, 2020 09:39
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LLSix posted:In Krastorio, is it always better to turn coal into coke, even if you have to make the wood in a greenhouse? I made a couple of rambly posts about doing this quite some time ago, and what it came down to is that my limiting factor was the throughput of the yellow belts I was using to supply burner inserters, as per Vanilla steam failsafe protocol. I don't know if I ever posted about my eventual solution, but I disconnected parts of the factory from the grid and burned an incredible amount of wild-caught biomass to make up the gap while I finished setting up coal receiving at the railhead and then dedicated all of the greenhouses to a massive coking plant which then fed a tripled steam plant, through rationalized belt lines instead of slamming the output of every slapdash build into a chunk of interleaved splitters and moving on to the next thing. It was enough coke to never have an outage again until nuclear took over, and to fuel steel smelter columns which kept producing until well after I rolled out electric furnaces.
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Nov 20, 2020 10:33
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Teledahn posted:...and seconds remaining for current fuel rod.  Teledahn posted:Blends well with vanilla and is something I wish was part of the base game, much cleaner than goofy stock solutions.
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Nov 20, 2020 10:41
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If Bobs+Angels isn't your fancy I'd really suggest trying Krastorio2+SE or Krastorio2 by itself with other QoL mods. Instead of incredibly annoying and complicated it's just WAY MORE of the fun chain setups. There are still some complicated and spaghetti-like setups needed but a lot of that is from Space Exploration in the mid to end-game, so cut that out if you want a more smooth vanilla like experience.
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Nov 20, 2020 15:25
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Is there a hidden downside to using oil for power that I haven't stumbled across yet? I'm far from optimized in any regard, but I have a pipe-spaghetti system feeding my steam boilers solid fuel using oil byproducts from lubricant/petrogas production (excess heavy cracked to light, light to solid fuel, and a petrogas to solid plant set up as a bleed-off valve in case petrogas gets backed up). The only issues I've run into with doing this at all have been my own failure to anticipate the bleed-off valve needs; I'm pulling more than enough fuel supply to run my base even with multiple major expansions planned, and I'm still shifting plenty of petrogas and lubricant for manufacturing. The only uranium deposit on my entire map that's visible is deep in biter territory and I only have the basic nuclear stuff unlocked (had to rebuild my base entirely to go above blue science, which I haven't finished installing yet), so haven't moved over yet. Despite not seeing any drawbacks, I don't see many other people use it and there has to be a reason (besides "nuclear power is so great"). Is there a looming catastrophe in my future? This is the farthest I've ever gotten.
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Nov 20, 2020 16:35
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People often find they have immense petroleum demands (for plastic), and cracking literally everything down to petrogas is the common recommendation for dealing with that. But what you've got is totally fine for now - you'll need Solid Fuel specifically in the late game, so having a good amount of solid fuel production set up in advance will come in handy.
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Nov 20, 2020 16:40
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SkyeAuroline posted:Is there a hidden downside to using oil for power that I haven't stumbled across yet? I'm far from optimized in any regard, but I have a pipe-spaghetti system feeding my steam boilers solid fuel using oil byproducts from lubricant/petrogas production (excess heavy cracked to light, light to solid fuel, and a petrogas to solid plant set up as a bleed-off valve in case petrogas gets backed up). The only issues I've run into with doing this at all have been my own failure to anticipate the bleed-off valve needs; I'm pulling more than enough fuel supply to run my base even with multiple major expansions planned, and I'm still shifting plenty of petrogas and lubricant for manufacturing. The only uranium deposit on my entire map that's visible is deep in biter territory and I only have the basic nuclear stuff unlocked (had to rebuild my base entirely to go above blue science, which I haven't finished installing yet), so haven't moved over yet. You're fine. You might have to find and setup an extra set of oil wells instead of an extra set of coal, but that's the only downside. I think you can even stretch your oil supply by mixing in coal now to make synthetic oil products, although I've never done that.
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Nov 20, 2020 19:03
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Did they massively buff shotguns at some point in the past year or two? I remember vanilla shotguns always being really anemic and useless, but I decided to try using one for the first time in a long while, and this thing shreds. The auto shotgun with piercing shells rips through all blue or lesser bugsLLSix posted:You're fine. You might have to find and setup an extra set of oil wells instead of an extra set of coal, but that's the only downside. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but I saw a thread where someone did the math and found that turning coal into solid fuel just about doubles the fuel value, with the power needs of the liquefaction and everything taken into account, and that was without any modules
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Nov 20, 2020 20:03
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It's totally possible to run a full oil setup from coal at a decent clip, just using coal liquefaction and some starting heavy oil. I think last time I did that, I had something I could stamp down on a coal input and it will generate everything without petering out in short order, due to some pump and circuit logic. Worst part is just doing that first starter oil.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:07
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Garfu posted:If Bobs+Angels isn't your fancy I'd really suggest trying Krastorio2+SE or Krastorio2 by itself with other QoL mods. Instead of incredibly annoying and complicated it's just WAY MORE of the fun chain setups. There are still some complicated and spaghetti-like setups needed but a lot of that is from Space Exploration in the mid to end-game, so cut that out if you want a more smooth vanilla like experience. Thanks. I was going to checkout SE but I'll look at Krastorios2. It looks pretty neat from what I can see, a solid overhaul without grognardy annoying complication and just extra steps for the hell of it. What QoL mods do you recommend? SE says it's not compatible with RSO, is that correct? Xaris fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 21:29
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Hey folks, I'm a complete new player and picked this up after starting the Katherine of Sky Entry Level to Megabase LP. (I'm two or three episodes in - enough to see some smelting and electricity, not much else.) So I'm trying the game on mostly-vanilla, although even enabling the basic nano-bot mod doesn't seem to have done much of anything. (I've played up through the first four tutorials, decided not to do the train tutorial just yet.) I have a few super basic questions for you, if you don't mind: What is load balancing? Someone mentioned it in the general management thread as something that's very unintuitive and might be worth spoiling even if I'm not looking up super detailed plans on other stuff. Second, is there a good way to either move things from one side of a belt to the other, or to split a dual-tracked belt to just use one side? These would be helpful because my mines are giving me double-tracked output, and sometimes I'm trying to merge two one-sided production chains but don't want everything alternating. (For instance, merging a coal line and an iron ore line to feed smelters, or creating a circuits/gears line for green science production.) Also, is there a better way to figure out the production speed of various things? I can see that a basic assembler has a time of 0.5, while a science lab has a time of 1, but when I tried to have 2 green science and 2 red science assemblers feeding 4 labs, I was not getting all four labs working at once. Something was off in my ratios. Fourth, how do I unlock blueprints? I'd like to be able to copy/paste some of my construction blocks (assembler plus arms and power pole, for instance), but I can't get the blueprint page to pop up even when I hit the little arrows on the window at the bottom that has the toggle for Alt-mode. e: Also I have done the obvious and dumb new player thing of building belts around my starter coal burner miners, plus burner inserters, so they feed themselves, instead of just pairing them with inputs pointing back and forth. OH WELL. TIME FOR ELECTRIC MINES INSTEAD. Arcturas fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 23:19
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Load balancing means making sure a load can grab items from every lane one of a multi lane one item bus. Or balancing both sides of a belt that transport the same item. Both are generally bad ideas, especially the second one. You can split belts either by using the item filter option in a splitter or by feeding it into an orthogonal underground belt. Or use this setup to move everything on the belt to the starboard lane. code:For the early game it is enough to go by items and ignore assemblers. So 0.5 assemblers making gears feed exactly 5 assemblers turning those into red science for example. Later you can go to computing by belts, for example 3 belts of copper and 2 belts of iron make 1 belt of circuits. Once you add production modules you can get out the calculator. Blueprints unlock when you research construction bots or when you click the option to unlock them from the start. Don't know where that setting is in the current version.
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Nov 20, 2020 23:30
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Xaris posted:SE says it's not compatible with RSO, is that correct? Yeah. SE does a lot of resource and enemy spawning overhauling on its own and also limits the sizes of all the surfaces it generates (including Nauvis) to provide an extra forcing function to spread out to other planets and so on, so RSO would be Not Great to add on top of that.
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Nov 20, 2020 23:36
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There are a couple of things meant by "balancing" Load/belt balancing is evenly spreading items over several belts. This is useful for loading/unloading trains, so you don't end up with the train waiting for one wagon to by filled/emptied Lane balancing refers to evenly spreading items over both lanes on a belt. This is mainly aesthetic, and as such I use it heavily 
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Nov 20, 2020 23:46
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Arcturas posted:Second, is there a good way to either move things from one side of a belt to the other, or to split a dual-tracked belt to just use one side? These would be helpful because my mines are giving me double-tracked output, and sometimes I'm trying to merge two one-sided production chains but don't want everything alternating. (For instance, merging a coal line and an iron ore line to feed smelters, or creating a circuits/gears line for green science production.) If one belt hits another belt at a right angle, it makes a corner, but only if it's the only belt feeding the "corner" piece. So you can either put two belts down in a row and load things onto the second one from the side, or you can put two belts facing another belt from opposite sides. The latter is generally how you can do what you're looking for with smelting and green science ingredients. You can then do the same thing with your science outputs so your red and green are on opposite sides of the same belt. Or you can set up the assemblers on opposite sides of the same belt, since inserters only put things down on the far side of a belt. You need to look at the build times for items. Red Science has a build time of 5, which means that a single grey assembler will make one every 10 seconds (5 / 0.5). Science is consumed at a rate dictated by technology. So for example, the tech to unlock concrete takes 30 seconds per pack, and a total of 250 of each type of pack. If you had 3 labs, combined they would consume 1 red and 1 green science pack every 10 seconds. Different techs have different rates of consumption, and there is also research that makes you research faster. I think you can use control c / control v even when you haven't ever unlocked bots, but I may be wrong.
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Nov 20, 2020 23:52
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Xaris posted:Thanks. I was going to checkout SE but I'll look at Krastorios2. It looks pretty neat from what I can see, a solid overhaul without grognardy annoying complication and just extra steps for the hell of it. What QoL mods do you recommend? Here's what I used for my K2+SE playthrough but you definitely don't need all of these, and I had a couple disabled, like infinite fuel. 
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Nov 21, 2020 00:03
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Belt lanes, and how to gently caress around with them Splitter filters and priority  Input priority means it will preferentially accept input from the selected side, and only from the other if the selected side isn't full. Output uses the same logic, only outputting to the non-preferred side if the preferred output is full. Applying a filter to output changes this. The filtered item only will always be output to the selected side, all other items will go to the non-preferred side. Please note that all these settings apply on a per-belt basis, not per-lane. Splitters never swap items from one lane to another. Swapping lane on a single belt  If you set output priority without a filter, if the output backs up then it will output to the left lane as well. To prevent this, set the filter to the specific item on the belt (plastic in this example). If the input belt has items in both lanes, the right lane will be used first. If you want to output to the left lane, you will need to mirror this setup. Swapping both lanes at once  This setup is side-agnostic, you can change the output sides by simply changing the filter. Spreading one lane over the entire belt  No filter on the splitter. Note that if you input to both lanes, the output will not be evenly distributed. If that is a problem, use the lane balancer in the next post. GotLag fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 00:38
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Belt balancing versus lane balancing Belt balancing  Note the output lanes are the same as input, just evenly distributed between the output belts Lane balancing  The output is evenly spread across both lanes of output This particular design can have 1 or 2 inputs, and produces 1 or 2 belt- and lane-balanced outputs The grey cubes are Perfectly Generic Objects, used to show dead space on the balancer from which items cannot leave
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Nov 21, 2020 00:41
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Thanks folks! I don’t think the generic splitters can filter like that, or if they can, I haven’t figured it out yet. I also misinterpreted output priority? I thought it meant priority for which of two belts you were outputting to. Like my coal line splits I always put priority toward the belt going to the boilers, to avoid running out of power.
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Nov 21, 2020 01:40
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They can filter, just click on one after you've built it.
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Nov 21, 2020 01:45
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Arcturas posted:I also misinterpreted output priority? I thought it meant priority for which of two belts you were outputting to. Like my coal line splits I always put priority toward the belt going to the boilers, to avoid running out of power.
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Nov 21, 2020 01:48
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Okay, the fluid dynamics in this game are a complete mess for me and I may never understand them. Time to switch to pure solar power to escape my steam boilers constantly running out of water. On the plus side, 5 out of 6 sciences automated, and I'd have the last one if I wasn't putting out fires. Cool.
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Nov 21, 2020 06:37
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milward posted:I decided to do a vanilla play-through now that 1.0 is released and I am starting to near the "end" of the research track. I am no expert here, but I think this will get way easier in 1.1 ... I have also never done what I'm about to describe. Someone smarter should fix what I'm about to post. One method you can do is for loader stations you only enable the station if it has enough to load 1 train. If they have less than a train they disable. If a train is at them I don't remember if you enable or disable them. Then you can do something similar to unloader stations but instead you trigger it off of if the buffer is beneath a certain amount. Like you are describing this can be done with chests and a local circuit network -- no global circuit network required. The negative of these as I understand them is that you need various depots / stackers for trains to sit if none of their stations are active and you also have an issue that if you have 10 idle trains and 1 station becomes active all 10 trains go for it. This is all fixed in 1.1 Another method is "ETS" which instead of enabling / disabling stations uses signals + circuits to give a pathing penalty depending on how full or empty a station is. It also doesn't require a global circuit network but does require combinator setup. Again, I've never done this so have no idea how well it works. https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/j9clu8/etsv7_easytrainsystem_a_many_to_many_train_system/ 1.1 should make this much easier because you use circuits to set how many train reservations a station has. a station only needs stackers up to its max reservation (which you control) and a full (or empty) station can set reservations to 0 and once it ticks back to 1 only a single train will be dispatched. For the simplest method you should be able to set up the train stop limit based off of chests + wire and not need a global circuit network although I'm sure you can do cool poo poo with one. Details here: https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-361 If you have a global circuit network you can do mods like TSM / LTN ( For my base I ended up doing a global circuit network and copied the system rain9441 uses (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KstIlP92Vis). it is ridiculous, but I wanted to learn combinators, so it was fun to setup. the negatives are that it is many outpost to 1 base, so if you want to do a lot of mini bases like a red circuit base, blue circuit base, etc, it doesn't handle that at all. I currently hit my goal of 1k spm, decided I wanted to try and expand and have a second circuits only base but am now realizing I have to setup a second global network combinator thing and am kind of giving up on changing my train setup until 1.1. deltah fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 06:48
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SkyeAuroline posted:Okay, the fluid dynamics in this game are a complete mess for me and I may never understand them. Time to switch to pure solar power to escape my steam boilers constantly running out of water. On the plus side, 5 out of 6 sciences automated, and I'd have the last one if I wasn't putting out fires. Cool. One pump can feed enough water for 20 boilers to make steam for 40 steam engines. The info on the pop-up for each of those items should be enough to work that out. I'm not at a pc to show it all, but the info is there. This does assume you aren't pumping the water a long way / doesn't consider in-line pumps. But if your steam power is right next to water that ratio holds .
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Nov 21, 2020 06:58
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SkyeAuroline posted:Okay, the fluid dynamics in this game are a complete mess for me and I may never understand them. Time to switch to pure solar power to escape my steam boilers constantly running out of water. On the plus side, 5 out of 6 sciences automated, and I'd have the last one if I wasn't putting out fires. Cool. Liquid gets produced, leaves output section Liquid spreads itself evenly across entire pipeline If liquid meets input, shoves itself in until input is full (either at max for storage tanks, or at double the necessary fluid requirement for machines), and rest of pipe re-equalizes Liquid continues to equalize until entire pipe section is at equal percentages If you have a pump, it sucks liquids from the butt end and expels it out of the output end Liquid continues the process of spreading and equalization until it can't
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Nov 21, 2020 07:01
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deltah posted:If you have a global circuit network you can do mods like TSM / LTN (I think both need a global circuit, but never used, so don't really know). I'm too dumb to use mods so just do vanilla. LTN doesn't actually need a global network unless they changed something. The mod is just glue that automagically manipulates the native train schedules in the game based on the inputs to the special LTN stations. You basically just end up with a local circuit network for each station that is telling the station what you need and how much.
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Nov 21, 2020 07:03
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Anyone got any unloading station train designs that fit nicely into city blocks (100x, 100y)? I'm having a nightmare of a time fitting more than one unloading station into each block, which seems excessively wasteful. I'm having a huge centre bus running through the base, just go really bootstrap the new base. I'll eventually have dedicated blocks for producing steel / circuits that I'll ship stuff to via trains.
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Nov 21, 2020 07:39
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If no one else gives you some ideas I have a great one, but it's on an HDD I don't have plugged up right now. I'll plug it up and grab it tomorrow if not, though it may not be exactly 100x100 sized (it's close iirc)
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Nov 21, 2020 08:06
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GotLag posted:Lane balancing If you only need to balance a single lane, there's this simple shape: 
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Nov 21, 2020 09:51
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That version doesn't balance when supply exceeds demand.
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Nov 21, 2020 10:04
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super fart shooter posted:Did they massively buff shotguns at some point in the past year or two? I remember vanilla shotguns always being really anemic and useless, but I decided to try using one for the first time in a long while, and this thing shreds. The auto shotgun with piercing shells rips through all blue or lesser bugs I think it's always been like that. The regular shotgun and shells are too weak and fires too slowly to really handle even the smallest bugs while the auto shotty + Piercing shells just tear through biters like tissue paper. (Just... be careful about firing it in your base. Trust me on this.)
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Nov 21, 2020 10:51
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I should check to see if there's a mod to disable removing your armor or setting the remove command to something like 5 clicks. I ALWAYS forget which click is remove armor and which is open the armor inventory, which usually results in a making a spectacular flower of misc components that muck up my base and spoil my zen.
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Nov 21, 2020 12:49
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GotLag posted:That version doesn't balance when supply exceeds demand. I'm not sure what you mean by this. It balances perfectly evenly until one lane backs up all the way to the balancer, and which point everything goes to the lane that still has demand. Which seems exactly the same as what the lane-balancer you posted does?
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Nov 21, 2020 13:19
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