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halokiller posted:Speaking of bridges, I'm still mad since all the WA Dems mainly focus in Seattle all the chuds in Vancouver keep voting down the I-5 bridge plan with light rail because 'crime train'. Now that's a train I can believe in
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Nov 20, 2020 17:38
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halokiller posted:Speaking of bridges, I'm still mad since all the WA Dems mainly focus in Seattle all the chuds in Vancouver keep voting down the I-5 bridge plan with light rail because 'crime train'. I mean, they learned their lesson from the SEPDX extension that has clearly turned Milwaukie into a lawless zone overrun with street gangs forcing people to smoke meth
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Nov 20, 2020 17:39
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Bar Ran Dun posted:I’m not sure it has anything to do with her. My understanding is the repairs would last about a decade, which is not long. But there isn’t really a choice anyway. The bridge is in worse shape than you think. I think it’s more about getting it stabilized before the next minor earthquake. Yeah, its kind of insane how important that little waterway is.
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Nov 20, 2020 18:06
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Crumbskull posted:Yeah, its kind of insane how important that little waterway is. We're building a whole drat toll road to connect Port of Seattle to I-5 without ever crossing a bridge / only crossing the 1st Ave S bridge. If there wasn't a Port there wouldn't be a city, full stop.
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Nov 20, 2020 18:16
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The Oldest Man posted:Now that's a train I can believe in I think it's the disease train now. They updated and modernized their message.
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Nov 20, 2020 18:57
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Bar Ran Dun posted:I’m not sure it has anything to do with her. My understanding is the repairs would last about a decade, which is not long. But there isn’t really a choice anyway. The bridge is in worse shape than you think. I think it’s more about getting it stabilized before the next minor earthquake. Weirdly enough, there's an option that guarantees that the duwamish waterway remains clear for port traffic that does not involve sinking a shitload of money into the continued existence of a commuter car bridge, but you show that to white Seattle liberals and they go, "That doesn't look like anything to me" on you
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Nov 20, 2020 19:16
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The Oldest Man posted:Weirdly enough, there's an option that guarantees that the duwamish waterway remains clear for port traffic that does not involve sinking a shitload of money into the continued existence of a commuter car bridge, but you show that to white Seattle liberals and they go, "That doesn't look like anything to me" on you I’m agnostic on the long term plans and there is a compelling argument for transit rather than commuter roads . I’d always prefer more public transport to roadways. But short term they have to keep the thing from falling down. And all reasonable options going forward start there.
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Nov 20, 2020 19:28
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Bar Ran Dun posted:I’m agnostic on the long term plans and there is a compelling argument for transit rather than commuter roads . I’d always prefer more public transport to roadways. But short term they have to keep the thing from falling down. And all reasonable options going forward start there. Do you think expeditious demolition would have been a reasonable option?
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Nov 20, 2020 19:32
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Bar Ran Dun posted:I’m agnostic on the long term plans and there is a compelling argument for transit rather than commuter roads . I’d always prefer more public transport to roadways. But short term they have to keep the thing from falling down. And all reasonable options going forward start there. "Reasonable" is the rhetorical trap the Democratic establishment uses to delete options that aren't the preservation of the status quo at the expense of everything and everyone in its way. There is nothing "reasonable" about plowing hundreds of millions or billions into the preservation of a piece of infrastructure that induces demand for car commutes. Nothing.
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Nov 20, 2020 19:35
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Your numbers are off. It's 55 million for the repair (25 of which is for traffic mitigation in the surrounding neighborhoods), and 500 for a full rebuild. Far short of the "billions" you refer to.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:04
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I work downtown in Seattle, and my boss just announced in our department-wide Zoom meeting that she doesn't care about Covid, she's having Thanksgiving with her family including her son (a pilot) and daughter-in-law (a schoolteacher). We had 800+ new cases in King County alone yesterday.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:13
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marxismftw posted:Your numbers are off. It's 55 million for the repair (25 of which is for traffic mitigation in the surrounding neighborhoods), and 500 for a full rebuild. Far short of the "billions" you refer to. Actually they've already got $150 million planned over two years (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/west-seattle-bridge-repair-cheaper-than-replacement-but-costs-still-loom/), and that's just a taster. Also, please don't play shell games where you pretend that the cost outlayed for the first two years of a bandaid (that will inevitably require more repair outlays) can be substituted for the full cost of the ongoing repairs that will be needed and the inevitable replacement we know is going to be the next step and which the city is already working on designing (https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2020/11/19/mayor-chooses-west-seattle-bridge-repair-option.html). quote:SDOT and consultant WSP will continue stabilization efforts and design the final phase of the repair work in the coming months. The design consultant for the eventual replacement of the high-rise bridge, HNTB, will also move forward with a "type, size and location study."
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Nov 20, 2020 20:14
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The interesting conversation is actually whether the city should replace the Magnolia bridge (which is in a similar, but not as drastic a state of disrepair, and will likely need replacement within the next decade), which will also likely carry a steep price tag; serves far fewer people (both car drivers and transit riders); connects an even whiter, more affluent area, the closure of which has a much smaller disparate effects on other neighborhoods and isn't a vital corridor for emergency services.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:18
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an owls casket posted:I work downtown in Seattle, and my boss just announced in our department-wide Zoom meeting that she doesn't care about Covid, she's having Thanksgiving with her family including her son (a pilot) and daughter-in-law (a schoolteacher). We had 800+ new cases in King County alone yesterday. Haha, why even would she share that? I don't know if you're "essential" but bosses should stop talking to the people who are "essential". The amount of stress and the frustration for the last 10 months is astounding. And them talking to us is not helping.
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Nov 20, 2020 20:32
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1glitch0 posted:Haha, why even would she share that? I don't know if you're "essential" but bosses should stop talking to the people who are "essential". The amount of stress and the frustration for the last 10 months is astounding. And them talking to us is not helping. privileged white exceptionalism is a hell of a drug
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Nov 20, 2020 20:48
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So oregon put out a workforce covid outbreak list recently and apparently correctional facility outbreaks count as a workplace even though I imagine it's mostly the incarcerated and not the guards who are sick. WTF is this poo poo other than a poor attempt to cover up how bad covid is in jail? The three largest outbreaks are all jails jfc.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:10
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:So oregon put out a workforce covid outbreak list recently and apparently correctional facility outbreaks count as a workplace even though I imagine it's mostly the incarcerated and not the guards who are sick.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:27
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1glitch0 posted:Haha, why even would she share that? I don't know if you're "essential" but bosses should stop talking to the people who are "essential". The amount of stress and the frustration for the last 10 months is astounding. And them talking to us is not helping. yeah, I don't know-- she's actually a good boss, but she came up here from Florida back towards the end of July, and just never seems to have taken this as seriously as I would have liked.
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Nov 20, 2020 21:42
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marxismftw posted:The interesting conversation is actually whether the city should replace the Magnolia bridge (which is in a similar, but not as drastic a state of disrepair, and will likely need replacement within the next decade), which will also likely carry a steep price tag; serves far fewer people (both car drivers and transit riders); connects an even whiter, more affluent area, the closure of which has a much smaller disparate effects on other neighborhoods and isn't a vital corridor for emergency services. "No" I mean obviously we're going to, though. Our governmental system is unable to contemplate otherwise. The Oldest Man fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Nov 20, 2020 |
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Nov 20, 2020 22:10
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The Oldest Man posted:"No" Look, the lack of an enormous infrastructure project costing huge amounts of taxpayer money that could do any number of other things that are desperately needed for the city would mildly inconvenience a relative handful of rich, white people. We can't have that.
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Nov 20, 2020 22:29
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Nov 20, 2020 22:37
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marxismftw posted:The interesting conversation is actually whether the city should replace the Magnolia bridge (which is in a similar, but not as drastic a state of disrepair, and will likely need replacement within the next decade), which will also likely carry a steep price tag; serves far fewer people (both car drivers and transit riders); connects an even whiter, more affluent area, the closure of which has a much smaller disparate effects on other neighborhoods and isn't a vital corridor for emergency services. Yeah I'm going to add that even as a pro-infrastructure person in general, WSB is where the interest is & Magnolia is a laughable joke until the Ballard Bridge gets replaced.
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Nov 20, 2020 22:39
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Gerund posted:Do you think expeditious demolition would have been a reasonable option? It was not presented as an option in what I saw. I’d also expect cost creep in anything done.
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Nov 21, 2020 00:07
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Bar Ran Dun posted:It was not presented as an option in what I saw. If you define reasonable as what the CoS tells you is possible, you'll do whatever sucker job the CoS leadership gives you so that they can get donor money from rich white homeowners with a water view. Be, like, a little wiser as to what a reasonable option is.
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Nov 21, 2020 00:14
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Gerund posted:Be, like, a little wiser as to what a reasonable option is. Yeah what I saw was outside of all that. It was port stuff not politics stuff. And I don’t think taking it down quickly is reasonable, unfortunately. Again what’s under it? Think about what has to happen to keep just the container terminals open during a tear down. It’s not like the viaduct tear down. This is a much larger structure with critical infrastructure underneath it. There is quite a lot that would have to be built before it could be taken down.
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Nov 21, 2020 00:23
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:So oregon put out a workforce covid outbreak list recently and apparently correctional facility outbreaks count as a workplace even though I imagine it's mostly the incarcerated and not the guards who are sick. Those naughty prisoners, going out and getting covid and then not attempting to social distance! So reckless of them. For real, what is happening in jails and prisons is just as evil as concentration camps.
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Nov 21, 2020 00:35
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Thanatosian posted:Prisoners aren't people in the U.S. Yeah I'm just surprised they (assumedly) groups prisoners and guards into the same workplace outbreak. Seems like you'd not report prisoner sickness unless you absolutely had to, hell I'm surprised they're even in the same reporting system.
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Nov 21, 2020 00:36
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meowmeowmeowmeow posted:Yeah I'm just surprised they (assumedly) groups prisoners and guards into the same workplace outbreak. Seems like you'd not report prisoner sickness unless you absolutely had to, hell I'm surprised they're even in the same reporting system. They were left out of a lot of early reporting. Something about not reporting a zip code. https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavi...d-by-state.html
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Nov 21, 2020 00:47
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Yeah what I saw was outside of all that. It was port stuff not politics stuff. Yeah it's a good thing you can just nakedly assert it would be too hard and there's not, say, a study of what that would look like since the city decided not to even look at that as an option. Six loving alternatives and "hey what if we just didn't have a bridge here for this purpose anymore" wasn't in the list.
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Nov 21, 2020 03:51
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In my opinion West Seattle should be razed for terminal lameness and replaced with high density public co-operative housing connected to the city with a modern light rail system. Harbor Island was the largest human made island on the planet at the time of its constructiom which is not terribly pertinent but interesting nonetheless. It would totally change the vibe on the island without that big fucker looming over it.
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Nov 21, 2020 04:26
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The Oldest Man posted:Yeah it's a good thing you can just nakedly assert it would be too hard and there's not, say, a study of what that would look like since the city decided not to even look at that as an option. Six loving alternatives and "hey what if we just didn't have a bridge here for this purpose anymore" wasn't in the list. You are upset about the part I’m agnostic about and there is a miscommunication occurring here. My opinion is that all options requires stabilizing the current bridge first. I don’t really have strong opinions about what happens after that. My strong opinion is that I do not want the bridge to fall catastrophically. if they get rid of it long term fine. If they replace it with transit fine. If they replace with an equivalent bridge fine. I don’t have strong opinion about that part. I do have a general preference towards more mass transit. Generally speaking it’s best to worry about preventing a potential historical catastrophe first. When they talk about shoring in articles about the bridge, that word has failure implied. shoring is a thing that is done to prevent imminent failure. You shore something up because if you don’t whatever you are shoring up ( one shores up and if it’s down it’s tomming down) is going to fail. Even if it were to be torn down, what’s happening now has to happen. That bridge is 220,000 tons. What do you think exponential growth in crack propagation means? That’s engineer for poo poo ya pants time. I’m comfortable nakedly asserting it has to be stabilized first no matter what happens next.
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Nov 21, 2020 05:01
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Bar Ran Dun posted:You are upset about the part I’m agnostic about and there is a miscommunication occurring here. My opinion is that all options requires stabilizing the current bridge first. I don’t really have strong opinions about what happens after that. My strong opinion is that I do not want the bridge to fall catastrophically. if they get rid of it long term fine. If they replace it with transit fine. If they replace with an equivalent bridge fine. I don’t have strong opinion about that part. I do have a general preference towards more mass transit. All the reports are that the Post-Tensioning is holding, so they can attempt a demo without having to do some OSHA thread poo poo. But leaving a big-rear end ramp on the two sides between the Marginal skate park and the Fire Department on Delridge is at least feasible; I recall walking through the standing AWV section to the ferry before they installed the new deck. I believe that the political reality was that the current mayor did not want to have a giant loving scar of failure hanging around during election time, and so framed the response such that the only options were immediate and happy-making, in spite of a reasonable ask being demo-until-replacement and lacing it with the Light Rail.
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Nov 21, 2020 05:13
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Gerund posted:All the reports are that the Post-Tensioning is holding, so they can attempt a demo without having to do some OSHA thread poo poo. Anything that size will be OSHA thread poo poo. I’m just glad my office isn’t under it anymore.
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Nov 21, 2020 06:47
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Anything that size will be OSHA thread poo poo. I’m just glad my office isn’t under it anymore. You're basing this on literally nothing and the city didn't study rapid demolition as an option because anything other than more car commutes for rich white people is a sin in this city.
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Nov 21, 2020 07:45
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The Oldest Man posted:You're basing this on literally nothing and the city didn't study rapid demolition as an option because anything other than more car commutes for rich white people is a sin in this city. My background is engineering, logistics and international transportation and marine loss prevention. I know everything of high consequence that passes on and under that bridge. It was my job to prevent long tail high consequence risks on the waterfront. I know all the people in the facilities under that bridge and on harbor island. Rapid demolition is crazy to bordering on insane. Removal of that bridge is going to take a long time and will be serious project. There isn’t another structure like this in the region.
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Nov 21, 2020 08:08
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Old Man yells at bridge?
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Nov 21, 2020 17:39
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Can we just get back to the important things, the common bonds between us?
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Nov 21, 2020 17:49
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Who’s ready for the landlord relief fund? https://www.opb.org/article/2020/11/20/oregon-lawmakers-eviction-ban-extension-coronavirus-pandemic-relief/ quote:The proposal would also allocate $100 million from the state’s general fund to assist renters and landlords. Fahey said it’s likely the bulk of that money would go into a new Landlord Compensation Fund to assist property owners hurting because of lost rent. The proposal would require landlords to apply for rent assistance online “on behalf of all of their tenants who owe rent payments.” That last sentence is really interesting because under the proposed extension renters have to be caught up by July 1 or the landlord can go ahead and evict, so to me this feels like a way to make sure the landlord can recoup most of their investment and still get rid of the tenant ASAP when the moratorium ends
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Nov 21, 2020 18:55
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Bar Ran Dun posted:My background is engineering, logistics and international transportation and marine loss prevention. I know everything of high consequence that passes on and under that bridge. It was my job to prevent long tail high consequence risks on the waterfront. I know all the people in the facilities under that bridge and on harbor island. What a coincidence, my uncle also works at nintendo
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Nov 21, 2020 18:57
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Anything that size will be OSHA thread poo poo. I’m just glad my office isn’t under it anymore. I hope the Rolls Royce guys will be o.k. Edit: if you were in the office park by the marina between 8-3 years ago theres a non-zero chance you used to see me walking my dog and chain smoking in the parking lot all the time. Crumbskull fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 19:37
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