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Strom Cuzewon posted:This is supposed to be...pro journalist? If you wanted to point out how utterly useless the news media is and you made this video you'd get called out for making them look like a loving cartoon. This guy comes on, drops all these terrifying facts, and all the interview can do is blither and ask for meaningless analogies. Yeah that’s actually a pretty good scene but it doesn’t fit with Sorkins MO
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Nov 22, 2020 15:13
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pentyne posted:The Donna/Josh stuff was gross as gently caress because he was constantly treating her like poo poo, yelling at her, or just mocking her in general yet they felt the need to write that up as a budding romance. I was never a fan of it turning into a romance (primarily because it was predictable) but the relationship was mutually antagonistic. I think this comes from being in the 90s / early 2000s where it seemed like a lot of humor was sarcastic and a little bit mean, but also frequently Donna was getting one over on Josh and the idea was that even though she was his assistant she was just as smart as him. jkk posted:It was a gross dynamic but I'm mostly okay with how it was handled in the end, ie. she left the West Wing and did her own thing for a while before they actually got together. But of course that was after Sorkin left the show. I wasn't a fan of a lot of that plot but I also don't remember it being that antagonistic? It's been a while and I only ever watched Studio 60 once. The whole "she's pregnant and the baby needs a father so Danny proposes to her" thing was just ugh. jkk posted:Oh man, there's so much poorly aged stuff in in the West Wing. There's a season 1 episode where the President is cooking chili for his staff, and it ends with him and Leo going "look at all these female characters on our show! Aren't they great? They're just as good as the men! Even Mandy!" While that segment was condescending towards most of the women, the Mandy section was probably the least bad part. It was literally about how Mandy refuses to take poo poo in a world with very little female representation. And Josh is the only person that yells at his secretary. Honestly, out of all of them, Donna and Mrs. Landingham are the only 2 that get a full on characterization, although Margaret does make frequent appearances for humorous interactions with Leo. While Toby, Sam, and CJ's secretaries exist, they're usually not there longer than a couple lines at any given time. Yes, I will defend The West Wing till my dying breath.
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Nov 22, 2020 15:17
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How well does Sports Night hold up? I remember really liking the show but i'm kind of scared to to back and re-watch.
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Nov 22, 2020 15:20
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Desert Bus posted:How well does Sports Night hold up? I remember really liking the show but i'm kind of scared to to back and re-watch. It being one of his earlier shows means Sorkin is way less up his own rear end about stuff and it's way less political because of the premise. It is a sitcom but Sorkin wanted something less sitcommy than was on the air at the time. Which means they were forced to put a laugh track on the show for the first part of the series, so that definitely doesn't hold up. It's been a while, but I don't recall any specifically bad parts of the show.
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Nov 22, 2020 15:29
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hawowanlawow posted:not true, the plow safely pushes them out of the way They're screaming! It's a surprisingly dark sequence.
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Nov 22, 2020 15:31
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Desert Bus posted:How well does Sports Night hold up? I remember really liking the show but i'm kind of scared to to back and re-watch. poo poo, I forgot all about that show until you mentioned it. Granted, all I can remember about it now is the one episode where they landed an interview with Michael Jordan, but ended up rejecting it because they found out his people were just going to use it as a cheap commercial for his new cologne line and not give an actual interview
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Nov 22, 2020 15:52
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I know there's an episode or two about sexual assault and that seems like a bad mix with typical Sorkin.
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Nov 22, 2020 15:55
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I know its very in vouge to hate on the West Wing right now and yah the honorable people on both sides thing seems quaint for where we are now but I think the show works for a few reasons 1) The acting/actors are great. 2) Sorkin does point to a lot of flaws of the characters and most importantly Bartlett. One of the best lines is Bartlett's therapist saying Lincoln would do anything to save the union, Bartlett would sacrifice his core to get the electoral votes in Michigan. Tobey is loyal to a fault, Josh is too aggressive and Rahm Emmanuel, ect. 3) It's supposed to be an idealized version of the United States and a bit of a warning about the Bush Administration's dumbing down of political discourse. Yah, looking back on it now its seems quaint/naive but it wasn't made in today's climate.
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Nov 22, 2020 15:58
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It was naive at the time of release it just that it was made for an audience of mostly affluent people who didn’t really pay attention to that stuff. It’s a lot like Rent if you think about it
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Nov 22, 2020 16:20
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As much as I hate to agree with anyone with a Ben Shapiro avatar, that's right on the money. West Wing was made by and for liberal audiences who crave reaffirmation of their privilege.
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Nov 22, 2020 16:26
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Hey I didn’t buy it, I’ve never bought an avatar
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Nov 22, 2020 16:32
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West wing had good aspects, but the part that resonates is that the Bartlett administration basically fails to make life better for people, and is succeeded by another Democratic administration that decides Bartlett didn't compromise enough and makes a Republican Secretary of State.
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Nov 22, 2020 16:37
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Yeah all the stuff about the West Wing that really hits hard is the stuff that was likely an afterthought, because it was created with more accidental honesty.
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Nov 22, 2020 16:42
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Maxwell Lord posted:Apparently cult obligations were the reason that character was killed off. She wasn't even the only cult member from BSG. Grace Park was there too and only left right at the end when the charges were filed against the leader. She has definitely seen some poo poo and is also trying to bury that news.
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Nov 22, 2020 16:51
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Garrand posted:I wasn't a fan of a lot of that plot but I also don't remember it being that antagonistic? It's been a while and I only ever watched Studio 60 once. The whole "she's pregnant and the baby needs a father so Danny proposes to her" thing was just ugh. I also watched it only once, so I may be misremembering. I just remember it being weird and gross. quote:While that segment was condescending towards most of the women, the Mandy section was probably the least bad part. It was literally about how Mandy refuses to take poo poo in a world with very little female representation. And Josh is the only person that yells at his secretary. Honestly, out of all of them, Donna and Mrs. Landingham are the only 2 that get a full on characterization, although Margaret does make frequent appearances for humorous interactions with Leo. While Toby, Sam, and CJ's secretaries exist, they're usually not there longer than a couple lines at any given time. I mean...there are a ton of scenes where Leo yells MARGARET!!!! and/or expresses annoyance at her. Toby and Sam also yell for their secretaries and Bartlet yells for Mrs Landingham although obviously that relationship has more depth than the Toby/Sam/Leo ones. Josh is just the worst case. I love the show too and might do another rewatch soon, but this poo poo annoys me.
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Nov 22, 2020 17:03
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sweet geek swag posted:West wing had good aspects, but the part that resonates is that the Bartlett administration basically fails to make life better for people, and is succeeded by another Democratic administration that decides Bartlett didn't compromise enough and makes a Republican Secretary of State. For all the flak Sorkin gets with about the West Wing 'both sidesing' and poo poo, most of the 'good republicans' stuff came after he left after season 4. The big premise of the 1st season is that Bartlett promised a lot but then ran to the center during his tenure and basically how he completely failed to be progressive. Sure, the literal line "I wanted a Democrat, but instead I got you" has a different meaning now but back then it was literally saying Bartlett was a coward who ran away from the left. e:Bartlett is literally Obama before Obama but Obama never had that revelation. Garrand has a new favorite as of 17:15 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 17:08
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Flying Zamboni posted:Sorkin holds all American institutions up as sacred, which is why he can't be insightful about them. By comparisons, The Social Network holds up much better because he clearly doesn't think Facebook as an institution is on the same level as the stuff he usually writes about so he allowed himself to write Zuckerberg as a deeply flawed, bad person instead of one of his usual ubermensch protagonists. David Fincher being at the helm behind the camera didn't hurt either. I recently listened to an episode of the I Don’t Speak German podcast about the way The Social Network portrays Zuckerberg as a hapless nerd who just wanted human connection...when it’s become clear he’s some who actually wants to become the next incarnation of Caesar. It’s eye opening. Let’s maybe not praise Sorkin for making one of history’s greatest monsters look like a misunderstood John Hughes protagonist. https://idontspeakgerman.libsyn.com/72-the-social-network
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Nov 22, 2020 20:23
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I kind of remember Sports Night being decent, but I haven't watched it since it was on the air.
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Nov 22, 2020 20:26
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Having just rewatched Sports Night, I can say that it holds up the best out of everything Sorkin's done.
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Nov 22, 2020 20:34
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:She wasn't even the only cult member from BSG. Grace Park was there too and only left right at the end when the charges were filed against the leader. She has definitely seen some poo poo and is also trying to bury that news. I'm about halfway through re-watching BSG right now, and this bums me out. Athena was always my favorite character (and Boomer my least favorite, so Park had range). Dirt Road Junglist posted:I recently listened to an episode of the I Don’t Speak German podcast about the way The Social Network portrays Zuckerberg as a hapless nerd who just wanted human connection...when it’s become clear he’s some who actually wants to become the next incarnation of Caesar. It’s eye opening. Let’s maybe not praise Sorkin for making one of history’s greatest monsters look like a misunderstood John Hughes protagonist.
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Nov 22, 2020 20:38
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Everyone talking about Sorkin and failing to mention his magnum opus 1995s The American President starring Michael Douglas and Annette Bening.
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Nov 22, 2020 20:51
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Lmfao
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Nov 22, 2020 21:04
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oldpainless posted:Everyone talking about Sorkin and failing to mention his magnum opus 1995s The American President starring Michael Douglas and Annette Bening. Annette Bening has aged remarkably well, thanks.
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Nov 22, 2020 21:21
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hyperhazard posted:The character was written terribly, but Jesse Eisenberg plays it as a straight sociopath. He doesn't mimic any of Zuckerberg's grandstanding, but keeps a completely flat affect. To me at least, it reads less "awkward nerd" and more "serial killer with torsos in his freezer." I've read different things about why he chose to go that route, but I think it works well. (doesn't hurt that Fincher loves making fun of antiheros)
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Nov 22, 2020 21:32
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oldpainless posted:Everyone talking about Sorkin and failing to mention his magnum opus 1995s The American President starring Michael Douglas and Annette Bening. Every time I try to remember what 'The American President' was about, Douglas and Bening get replaced in my head by Kevin Kline and Sigourney Weaver from 'Dave'. An improvement, honestly. Krispy Wafer has a new favorite as of 21:44 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 21:37
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The weird thing about Studio 60 was that at the time The Daily Show was way more politically relevant and funnier than SNL. Like I would argue there was an entire generation where TDS was the main source of political news.
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Nov 22, 2020 21:42
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:I recently listened to an episode of the I Don’t Speak German podcast about the way The Social Network portrays Zuckerberg as a hapless nerd who just wanted human connection...when it’s become clear he’s some who actually wants to become the next incarnation of Caesar. It’s eye opening. Let’s maybe not praise Sorkin for making one of history’s greatest monsters look like a misunderstood John Hughes protagonist. Yeah the movie definitely could have been much more critical, though I didn't leave the theater feeling sympathy for Zuckerberg I didn't exactly have a high opinion of him going into it either.
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Nov 22, 2020 21:46
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Flying Zamboni posted:Yeah the movie definitely could have been much more critical, though I didn't leave the theater feeling sympathy for Zuckerberg I didn't exactly have a high opinion of him going into it either. Also, the movie basically calls him an rear end in a top hat and a thief.
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Nov 22, 2020 21:48
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The Social Network was fine on calling Zuck a jackass. It just couldn't predict he'd be a threat to democracy. poo poo, I just remembered Zuckerberg has political ambitions too doesn't he? Thank the heavens he's got all the charm of white dog poo poo.
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Nov 22, 2020 21:57
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GrandpaPants posted:The weird thing about Studio 60 was that at the time The Daily Show was way more politically relevant and funnier than SNL. Like I would argue there was an entire generation where TDS was the main source of political news.
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Nov 22, 2020 21:59
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Krispy Wafer posted:Every time I try to remember what 'The American President' was about, Douglas and Bening get replaced in my head by Kevin Kline and Sigourney Weaver from 'Dave'. An improvement, honestly. I keep replacing it with Bulworth, probably because Bening is married to Warren Beatty. I don't remember anything about that movie, except that I liked Ghetto Superstar when it came out, and in the middle of it, one of my relatives called to say my cousin had committed suicide. I'm betting it's bad? //EDIT: Oh. quote:Beatty first pitched the film in 1992 under the basic pitch of a depressed man putting a hit on himself for the life insurance before falling in love. 20th Century Fox executive Joe Roth approved of the pitch and a budget of $30 million before Beatty got to work on the point of view in politics that would take center stage for the film, with Beatty taking input from writers such as Jeremy Pikser, James Toback and Aaron Sorkin (who reportedly did a re-write on the script). Dirt Road Junglist has a new favorite as of 22:17 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 22:12
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the_steve posted:Was watching National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, and I think something that hasn't aged well is the scene where the boss actually feels bad about taking away the bonuses. I had a similar reaction when watching Prophecy, the mutant bear movie, and the rear end in a top hat buisnessman who dumped the chemicals in the first place has a change of heart when he sees what his actions have done and tries to help. There's no way a businessman like him wouldn't refuse to accept responsibility to the moment the bear gets him.
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Nov 23, 2020 01:56
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A weird thing about Studio 60 was that Mark McKinney was supposed to help behind the scenes with some of the in universe sketches since he had experience on shows like Kids in the Hall and SNL. Either Sorkin didn't listen to him or the other Kids were the talented ones.
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Nov 23, 2020 03:28
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sweet geek swag posted:West wing had good aspects, but the part that resonates is that the Bartlett administration basically fails to make life better for people, and is succeeded by another Democratic administration that decides Bartlett didn't compromise enough and makes a Republican Secretary of State. The Republican was supposed to win to restore balance to the universe. Then, in real life, a freshman senator from Illinois was making waves, so the season was rewritten to let the Democrat win. The nuclear meltdown episode was a hamfisted way to change the trajectory of the race.
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Nov 23, 2020 04:04
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Was there ever anything in SNLs history that gave credence to the idea that it and the shows like it that formed the basis for Studio 60 were important institutions that spoke truth to power or whatever? The extent of their satire was stuff like Clinton being horny, HW Bush being a fuddy-duddy, and Gerald Ford falling down a lot. I feel like it took years into the Obama presidency for the comedy scientists to discover “Uhh, let me be clear.”
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Nov 23, 2020 04:54
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Dr Christmas posted:Was there ever anything in SNLs history that gave credence to the idea that it and the shows like it that formed the basis for Studio 60 were important institutions that spoke truth to power or whatever? no, but you can be sure that they're patting themselves on the back right now for all the help they did over 4 years of orange man funny voice jokes
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Nov 23, 2020 05:00
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Dr Christmas posted:Was there ever anything in SNLs history that gave credence to the idea that it and the shows like it that formed the basis for Studio 60 were important institutions that spoke truth to power or whatever? muscles like this! posted:A weird thing about Studio 60 was that Mark McKinney was supposed to help behind the scenes with some of the in universe sketches since he had experience on shows like Kids in the Hall and SNL. Either Sorkin didn't listen to him or the other Kids were the talented ones.
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Nov 23, 2020 05:20
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Dr Christmas posted:Was there ever anything in SNLs history that gave credence to the idea that it and the shows like it that formed the basis for Studio 60 were important institutions that spoke truth to power or whatever? SNL creates the spirit of transgression by having a live format with extreme topicality, so you have poo poo like an episode that airs the same day that trump loses, so there’s this electricity in the air because anything could happen. But of course nothing ever does because SNL knows how to obey and has perfected a formula where it seems like the show makes claims but actually just caricatures politicians like they’re movie stars. Tina Fey did an interview a long time ago about how Harvard Lampoon writers perfect the art of inoffensive comedy in the hope of being recruited by SNL, which basically boils down to using the form of a joke but without content.
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Nov 23, 2020 05:23
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Platystemon posted:The Republican was supposed to win to restore balance to the universe. Wasn't John Spencer dying the real impetus to make the end of the West Wing be less depressing?
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Nov 23, 2020 05:28
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Mooseontheloose posted:Wasn't John Spencer dying the real impetus to make the end of the West Wing be less depressing? Hmm you’re right. I don’t know where I heard other explanation, but given the production schedule, it doesn’t really work. Obama declared candidacy almost a year later. Here’s how the grey lady described the ending. quote:'West Wing' Writers' Novel Way of Picking the President
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Nov 23, 2020 05:42
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