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spacetoaster posted:Here's something terrifying. In a sane world, this kind of monitoring and data harvesting would be illegal within someone's home, whether or not it's their place of work. Should be illegal everywhere, of course, but we're already so hosed what's the point? Looking forward to having my life ruined by a lovely "AI."
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Nov 23, 2020 10:16
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Unstick you beautiful post you
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Nov 23, 2020 10:19
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Fame Douglas posted:You're a moron that doesn't know anything. Stop spreading weird goon wisdom. Italian here, Italy literally has the Roma live in camps on the outskirts of main cities, and almost all of them are so marginalized they live off of informal sectors and occasionally welfare payments. They will literally never find a job because as soon as an employer sees their surname or place of residence they will immediately kick them out the interview. The racism they face is unbelievable unless you witness it with your own eyes. People go literal Hitler over the Roma and I have never once seen anyone push back. Also our agricultural sector is propped up almost entirely by literal slave labor, that is migrants, most from African countries, who are deliberately kept by successive governments in limbo of citizenship and illegal status so they can be threatened with deportation and have no access to union representation, no rights etc. These people live on the fields they till, and are paid wages so low they remain below the absolute poverty line despite pulling an average 10h work day of literal backbreaking labor. And you wouldn't want to hear what well-to-do Italians think of the Blacks. European racism is a lot more pervasive, and virulent. You just don't get to hear as much of it in some countries because the people it hurts are so marginalized, and such tiny minorities, it can be all successfully swept under the rug. Black people coming in as tourists in Italy have almost universally as the only big impression left of the country the horrific racism they faced everywhere. mortons stork has issued a correction as of 11:32 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 11:27
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euro racism is much more diverse than yankee racism, because europe is much more culturally and politically diverse than yankeestan like, my country has serious issues with bias in policing and in people with forrin names having trouble getting job interviews etc - and we have a big migrant worker caste who live in a bizarre parallel society like everywhere else in the west - but the cops only very rarely murder people in the streets for having the wrong skin colour, and i've never heard of anyone being refused service for being arab or w/e so it's impossible to say if its good or bad
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Nov 23, 2020 11:42
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it’s so good that he of all people posted that lmao
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Nov 23, 2020 12:44
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V. Illych L. posted:euro racism is much more diverse than yankee racism, because europe is much more culturally and politically diverse than yankeestan Reginald D Hunter has a lot of bits/interviews/panel shows where he talks about euro vs US racism and he's got a lot of deep cuts about how lots of Europeans think they have these enlightened views about racism but are just as bad or worse then anything they mock the US for.
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Nov 23, 2020 12:50
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Subway in North America is a place where the manager puts the radio in a wooden box, secured with a padlock, so the employees cannot change the radio station. They accept deliveries of cubic meters of "seafood" and the line workers chip it up and shovel it onto your sandwich bread. If they just changed their breakfast egg menu into brunch they could probably capture a new market segment though. Mimoso sauce sounds pretty tasty on a hammy slider.
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Nov 23, 2020 12:53
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pentyne posted:Reginald D Hunter has a lot of bits/interviews/panel shows where he talks about euro vs US racism and he's got a lot of deep cuts about how lots of Europeans think they have these enlightened views about racism but are just as bad or worse then anything they mock the US for. the thing is, it's hard to do worse than a country where an ethnic minority is effectively placed outside the law en masse and is free game for agents of the state i'm fairly sure people in the US are generally better in terms of expressed attitudes, but whether the level of violence is the same or which way it tilts is not easily inferred by that, and that's not even getting into how differently this stuff manifests itself in different cultures i'm 100% sure that to a yank, almost every european country will come across as massively racist. this is because you've got some fairly specific and culturally contingent indicators that you look at to judge racism, and because we are indeed also quite racist. those indicators may or may not reflect the level of racism in the examined society in the way that one expects, however; people's willingness to use certain terms in casual conversation is imo a reasonable indicator or racist attitudes, but it's not a strict correlation between that and e.g. acceptance of someone being turned away at the door for looking 'shifty', or the willingness of official trades groups to start teaching different skin or hair qualities or any number of other potential indicators, which equally don't necessarily correlate particularly well racism is deeply complicated, and exonerating one's own society by saying that someone else is worse - which is usually what we do when we get down to brass tacks on these issues - is an especially insidious form of trivialising the issue at home. importing a foreign discourse to deal with something so intimately cultural and historical is inevitably going to backfire imo
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Nov 23, 2020 13:34
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V. Illych L. posted:racism is deeply complicated, and exonerating one's own society by saying that someone else is worse - which is usually what we do when we get down to brass tacks on these issues - is an especially insidious form of trivialising the issue at home. importing a foreign discourse to deal with something so intimately cultural and historical is inevitably going to backfire imo I don't think anyone ITT has (genuinely) tried to exonerate their own country by saying "But see? The other side have it worse!", though I do think there has been some deserved attention brought into the fact that western european countries like to pretend they're better than the US on that front, except it does always fall down when it comes to the Roma and others in the traveller communities. The Tory manifesto at the last election pretty much called for a taking traveller property, all the meanwhile they've been cutting authorised locations for them for decades.  Nobody here should be saying "Get your own house in order before you complain about anyone else", but equally nobody here should be ignoring their homegrown racism in favour of railing against one that's arguably more obvious to them.
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Nov 23, 2020 13:45
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there is a pattern - on both sides - of people doing just that, though, and most of the 'no u' stuff that this discussion inevitably degenerates into is hard to interpret as anything but people applying their own indicators to another society and seeing them bounce off the charts nobody has much cause to be self-righteous on this issue, and it's never been a fruitful conversation ever when it's come up on these boards
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Nov 23, 2020 13:56
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Every place on earth seems to be racist as gently caress, it's depressing
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Nov 23, 2020 14:15
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Nature of people. That's why you have to design systems that mitigate and reduce the problem, rather than ignore or encourage it. Unfortunately, people also kinda suck at that.
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Nov 23, 2020 14:41
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It’s not about pointing out homegrown racism to bully self righteous euros, it’s about not allowing self righteous euros to hide behind the super inaccurate meme of America being the most racist place in the first world.
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Nov 23, 2020 15:39
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please knock Mom! posted:It’s not about pointing out homegrown racism to bully self righteous euros, it’s about not allowing self righteous euros to hide behind the super inaccurate meme of America being the most racist place in the first world. which is functionally the same as deflecting from racism in america in most contexts because the phenomena are not trivially comparable
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Nov 23, 2020 15:49
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I wrote up a post about US v euro racism, wanting to throw my 2 cents in the ring. Then, I thought to myself, "what in the gently caress are you even doing my guy" and deleted it all.
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Nov 23, 2020 15:53
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Please just make it so I can buy anti-racism credits to offset the racism I endorse with my spending, this whole is it racist is it not racist is it more racist stuff is exhausting for us consumers
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Nov 23, 2020 16:01
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V. Illych L. posted:which is functionally the same as deflecting from racism in america in most contexts because the phenomena are not trivially comparable I guess this is true if you think that people have a limited amount of care credits to spend on caring about things. How are you going to effectively point out the dirt in someone else’s house when you’ve grown so accustomed to your own type of filth you don’t even see it anymore?
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Nov 23, 2020 16:12
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the point is that, while this is probably an interesting topic for serious research, it really sucks as a topic for discussion on the something awful forums because it's legitimately difficult and ambiguous, and because even going about talking about which imperial society is more or less racist in this format is necessarily going to involve a lot of unacceptable reduction i've been here before, it always devolves into chauvinist bickering
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Nov 23, 2020 16:16
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V. Illych L. posted:the point is that, while this is probably an interesting topic for serious research, it really sucks as a topic for discussion on the something awful forums because it's legitimately difficult and ambiguous, and because even going about talking about which imperial society is more or less racist in this format is necessarily going to involve a lot of unacceptable reduction Nobody has asked you to play the part of forums ombudsman or defuser and in fact you’ll find that we had a grand old time of dunking on the smug european idiot before you decided to barge in with your pointless evenhanded d&d-spiel. You should scroll up and realize the point was never to prove who is more racist, but that racism and bigotry is something which affects everyone everywhere, in every part of the so-called civilized first world, in various ways, and that people who think their communities are ‘in the clear’ are to be made fun of repeatedly.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:21
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evidently not
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Nov 23, 2020 16:22
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the heart of the matter is: europeans hate americans not because we commit genocide, but we do it so inefficiently.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:45
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V. Illych L. posted:racism is deeply complicated, and exonerating one's own society by saying that someone else is worse - which is usually what we do when we get down to brass tacks on these issues - is an especially insidious form of trivialising the issue at home. importing a foreign discourse to deal with something so intimately cultural and historical is inevitably going to backfire imo
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Nov 23, 2020 17:20
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Peanut President posted:the heart of the matter is: europeans hate americans not because we commit genocide, but we do it so inefficiently. But US cops are extremely efficient at killing minorities, idgi
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Nov 23, 2020 17:28
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gay_crimes posted:wow this is some next level equivocating, how long have you been steeping yourself in this bullshit? Imagine defending lefties dunking on Fame Douglas' poo poo racism denial with mealy mouthed wall of texts about importing foreign discourse backfiring they’re just another D&D poster high on their own farts who thinks all it takes to post here is a lack of punctuation.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:28
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V. Illych L. posted:the point is that, while this is probably an interesting topic for serious research, it really sucks as a topic for discussion on the something awful forums because it's legitimately difficult and ambiguous, and because even going about talking about which imperial society is more or less racist in this format is necessarily going to involve a lot of unacceptable reduction if you really think discussing racism in 1st world countries is this sisyphean task maybe you should log off and find something more your speed, like yelling at the TV.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:35
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mortons stork posted:People go literal Hitler over the Roma and I have never once seen anyone push back. Yeah like watching from the outside it was the most bizarre thing. My friend would hang out in this european science discussion group thing that had good moderation and was generally very good at kicking out garbage people with lovely opinions, and then one day they had a derail about Travelers and oh boy, even the mods joined in to say some of the grossest poo poo, to him. V. Illych L. posted:going about talking about which imperial society is more or less racist That's not at all what anyone is doing but ok I think we all agree that every country is racist in their own special way
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Nov 23, 2020 17:41
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no you see, we're playing with fire when we talk to the question as to whether or not european racism exists on the something awful dot com forums. Ordinary, uncredentialed posters are not qualified to speak to such complex issues that must be analyzed as a whole. It needs a lot of time and a lot of research. There's a lot of nuance as to whether or not Roma good or bad that we just cannot understand without cultural context, historical context and lived experiences in european society
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Nov 23, 2020 17:46
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Shame Boy posted:Yeah like watching from the outside it was the most bizarre thing. My friend would hang out in this european science discussion group thing that had good moderation and was generally very good at kicking out garbage people with lovely opinions, and then one day they had a derail about Travelers and oh boy, even the mods joined in to say some of the grossest poo poo, to him. I lucked into visiting Italy once. This one tour guide was the same deal. He'd been great. Lots of social and political commentary, from modern Italy back to ancient Rome. Super interesting. Very funny. Generally left-leaning and broadly egalitarian, too. Except about Roma. Someone asked the wrong question and he just launched into this rant. Oh, they refuse to integrate and they strip their free apartments and they segregate themselves and the only ones who come out grift and steal and so on and so on. Dude apparently had some poo poo he wanted to get off his chest. But like, if you're Roma then you're running into that level of hostility and presumption everywhere you go and what's that going to do? I remember once watching a mini-documentary about a family of American Roma immigrés and they were happy as clams that they could just show up places and do things without all the white people doing their best impressions of Donald Sutherland in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.* * FILE FOOTAGE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo
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Nov 23, 2020 18:08
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Accretionist posted:I remember once watching a mini-documentary about a family of American Roma immigrés and they were happy as clams that they could just show up places and do things without all the white people doing their best impressions of Donald Sutherland in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.* Yeah I told my friend to visit the US some time cuz nobody here has magic bloodhound anti-Roma senses and he'd just be a slightly tan dude with an English accent, which is very charming to us uncultured Americans. Then he died cuz the NHS couldn't get his gall stones out fast enough and the chronic pain made him OD on fentanyl 
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Nov 23, 2020 18:12
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Hell of a .png thread we have going here.
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Nov 23, 2020 18:16
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*coughs racistly in Australian*
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Nov 23, 2020 18:17
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in canada we're much more progressive, where we teach all the recent immigrants to be racist against first nations with the rest of us (oh and against somali people for some reason)
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Nov 23, 2020 18:27
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Nov 23, 2020 18:27
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We've got top scientists on the case of what this mf was trying to write
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Nov 23, 2020 18:51
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https://twitter.com/jaredbkeller/status/1330872928477589504?s=19
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Nov 23, 2020 19:48
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet a friend of mine plays dnd with euros and was floored by how adamantly they defended this poo poo 
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Nov 23, 2020 19:58
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Inceltown posted:*coughs racistly in Australian* Agreed, Australians get the prize for most racist. Seriously, every country/region has their own horrible take on racism, and comparing them is like racist apples and racist oranges. I'm continually amazed at the European anti-Roma thing, which literally Hitler was into and we just keep trucking. And not just the usual fascists, lots of leftist intellectuals too. It's weird as gently caress. But also the thing where if you keep calling them criminals and refusing them any access to jobs or other interaction with society, they will to drive extend conform to the stereotype because that's their best option. See also: middle-eastern-descent criminal gangs in Denmark (and elsewhere).
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Nov 23, 2020 20:05
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Peanut President posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajji_Firuz 
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Nov 23, 2020 20:17
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some of the best shows ive ever seen are ... *braces for mod destruction* gypsy flamenco
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Nov 23, 2020 20:35
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Peanut President posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet dude there's annual riots about that poo poo over here
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Nov 23, 2020 20:48
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