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communism bitch posted:Is it normal to want to hang yourself two months into an MA and one week before handing in you first paper? gently caress me but I'm not sure I'm cut out for the stress. Is there something specific stressing you such as writing the paper if you haven't written for ages / ever? When I went to do a post-grad with a large essay demand after studying an extremely mathematical subject where I never had to put more than 500 words together, and busting a gut writing a 6000 word essay that took me weeks and long hours - only for the tutor to throw it back at me saying 'noone's interested in your opinions, where are your references' after years of being told copying/paraphrasing other peoples' work - which is what quotes and references were to me at the time - was plagiarism, I cried for a week. I had to get an extension because unlike the humanities students who it seemed to me had been trained via their A-levels to tl:dr - ask for an extension. ed: page snipe - erm 477 bus goes to Bluewater. I never went there. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 16:43
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Catzilla posted:Also he would lose the financial and administrative backing of the Labour Party. Even though, according to the tabloids, he “lives in a million pound house” it costs quite a bit to run successfully as an independent. Although if anyone could crowd source election funds I suspect he could. We've seen pictures of that house, it would cost £47k in the butt end of Cardiff.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:46
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I left school at 15 with no qualifications and got accepted into an MA in my mid 30s. I understand the material, understand what I would like to write, and I'm just sitting here staring at an incoherent mess of text with one week till my deadline and feeling utterly hopeless. Doesn't help that I was sort of pressured into this by my employers, who are paying for it. I can't really blame them because I chose the course and said I wanted to o it, but for them my doing something was conditional on continued advancement. So it's a bit of a loving pickle.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:47
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communism bitch posted:I left school at 15 with no qualifications and got accepted into an MA in my mid 30s. I understand the material, understand what I would like to write, and I'm just sitting here staring at an incoherent mess of text with one week till my deadline and feeling utterly hopeless. Definitely get an extension, talk to your tutor, you need to figure out how to structure and write an essay. That can take time and practice. They might have something useful to help you. How long does it have to be? What sort of style 'question' is it? "Discuss the relative merits of this and that", "Examine the claims made by Prof Ali Gee that this is authentic Scottish medieval ornaments", "Bloggs said "blah blah blah". Comment on and discuss"
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Nov 23, 2020 16:50
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:When I went to do a post-grad with a large essay demand after studying an extremely mathematical subject where I never had to put more than 500 words together, and busting a gut writing a 6000 word essay that took me weeks and long hours - only for the tutor to throw it back at me saying 'noone's interested in your opinions, where are your references' after years of being told copying/paraphrasing other peoples' work - which is what quotes and references were to me at the time - was plagiarism, I cried for a week. I had to get an extension because unlike the humanities students who it seemed to me had been trained via their A-levels to That sounds crazy to me, the need for references was indeed hammered into me from day 1 at Uni and before.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:53
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Gort posted:That sounds crazy to me, the need for references was indeed hammered into me from day 1 at Uni and before. I never had to write an essay before post-grad (except 0-level English and that was just quotes from books/plays). My degree was just 1 module different from an Applied Maths degree. No references at all, just documentation of a computer programme, write up of an experiment, that kind of thing. Ed: I did an OU shortcourse on polar region adaptations about 5 years ago and my 1000 word essay on polar bears had 62 references... I learned. Oh, how I learned!
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Nov 23, 2020 16:56
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communism bitch posted:I left school at 15 with no qualifications and got accepted into an MA in my mid 30s. I understand the material, understand what I would like to write, and I'm just sitting here staring at an incoherent mess of text with one week till my deadline and feeling utterly hopeless. Oh hey, that sounds like my PhD transfer thesis (initial thesis written about halfway through). In my case it was rubbish because my supervisor had not properly equipped me to write the bloody thing and didn't give proper feedback. Literally one of the examiners comments was that my figure legends were poo poo, which they were, and my supervisor agreed. Well he could have told me that when I sent it to him for feedback! All he needed to say was write better legends. As it was it came as a complete surprise and left me in tears by the end. That said I have now completed my PhD and my final thesis was far better. Even if it seems crap now, and it may it may not be, it'll get better. One way you learn these things is by being rubbish at it. That said it does feel like poo poo and is probably not the best way of doing things but it's really depends on how good a supervisor you get and if they help guide you through the process or just leave you to somehow figure it out.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:57
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Definitely get an extension, talk to your tutor, you need to figure out how to structure and write an essay. That can take time and practice. They might have something useful to help you. Like I should be able to do it, but I'm just tying myself up in knots, getting lost in the literature, and not being very productive. I think my lack of familiarity with general academic writing is a serious flaw on my part, but I'm familiar with professional writing from my work, and hadn't expected to feel so directionless and terrified. I'm probably crying about nothing, but it's veeerrry scary.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:57
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communism bitch posted:Oh it's pitifully short at 2,500 words, and vaguely defined: "has the role of the museum changed over time?". I chose to attempt to structure it into 3 classes of historical musejms; classical, modern, and post-modern, assessing state and public roles in the museum in those periods (basically 16th-17th century, 18th-19th century, and 20th century), drawing mostly on existing literature to give the obvious answer ("yes, repeatedly"). I did my BA in my late 20s and never got taught how to do this stuff in high school because it was overseas. Talk to your tutor, or if they're being an rear end just go straight to your lecturers/professors and ask them for pointers. Find the one who is cool and can make time for you every now and then and you'll be golden. My ethics lecturer along with one specific class mate are the only reasons I got through my degree. Essay structuring is weird and you need to get used to it. The structure is the same but in my experience everyone goes about building/padding it differently, so you need to find the way that is comfortable for you. The main thing is try to make sure each paragraph is a self contained point/issue. That'll let you order it much easier and the segues will also be easier. I used to do flowcharts of one paragraph leading into another etc. Good luck!
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Nov 23, 2020 17:01
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communism bitch posted:Oh it's pitifully short at 2,500 words, and vaguely defined: "has the role of the museum changed over time?". I chose to attempt to structure it into 3 classes of historical musejms; classical, modern, and post-modern, assessing state and public roles in the museum in those periods (basically 16th-17th century, 18th-19th century, and 20th century), drawing mostly on existing literature to give the obvious answer ("yes, repeatedly"). Start with an outline if you haven't already: Introduction (Write me at the end) S1: In the 16-17C, the main role of a museum was to _Fill in the blank--- as evidenced by (Bloggs, 1979) [check required formatting of references / footnotes / endnotes etc! There's probably a departmental guide somewhere, you may as well get used to it!] 16-17C visitors museums were mainly from the ------- class --------------- blah blah. John Doe (2012) however disagrees with Bloggs and points out that Mr Poopy Head writing in his diary of 1679 said...... S2 ditto 18/19th S3 ditto 20th Conclusions - Arguably, it can be seen that the role of museums has flowed from being an informer of the upper crust as to why they deserve to be the upper crust to being an educator and informer of the masses. Blah di blah. I agree/disagree because why not? RECORD REFERENCES AND BIBLIOGRAPHY AS YOU GO SO YOU AREN'T STRUGGLING AT THE END TO ADD THEM IN THIS CAN BE TORTUOUS IN THE EXTREME. (ask me how I know.... erm.... ) Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 17:03
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Gort posted:That sounds crazy to me, the need for references was indeed hammered into me from day 1 at Uni and before. One thing I still don’t get about references in humanities (I have an MA in one) is that while citing Scholarus Maximus’s magnum opus about toilet design in Rome from 170-200 AD is generally considered better than citing some no-name’s blog, at the end of the day all of the points in humanities research stand and fall on the strength of primary research. This means that in theoretical papers where the primary research is “a convincing rebuttal examined by many scholars since it was published in 1983” you’re literally citing some dude’s opinions in the same way as citing Angry Random Man’s blog would be. Conversely, if I as a grad student go and do original primary research, that probably means less in academic citations than citing Prof Hugh Gebraine on the same topic and will get dismissed as just inexperienced conjecture unless it’s rock solid and praised by other experts. What makes one of these a legitimate scholarly source and the other not? Surely it can’t just be elitism and social capital?
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Nov 23, 2020 17:04
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communism bitch posted:Oh it's pitifully short at 2,500 words, and vaguely defined: "has the role of the museum changed over time?". I chose to attempt to structure it into 3 classes of historical musejms; classical, modern, and post-modern, assessing state and public roles in the museum in those periods (basically 16th-17th century, 18th-19th century, and 20th century), drawing mostly on existing literature to give the obvious answer ("yes, repeatedly"). Absolutely, you can get to the end of a 4 year PhD and still feel like you don't actually know what you are doing or that you have somehow tricked your way into passing the viva. Even the best PhD students I have known end up feeling like this at some point. "I don't know what I am doing" you literally just passed a viva, you must know something! It's crap and I don't really have any good suggestions other that talk to people (so you can promptly ignore them because they are clearly wrong when they reassure you if I'm anything to go by) and know you aren't the only one who feels like this. Doesn't matter how big or small it is.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:04
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imagine thinking "I moved house" is a reasonable subject for discussion but "I got a dog" isn't
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Nov 23, 2020 17:04
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Purple Prince posted:One thing I still don’t get about references in humanities (I have an MA in one) is that while citing Scholarus Maximus’s magnum opus about toilet design in Rome from 170-200 AD is generally considered better than citing some no-name’s blog, at the end of the day all of the points in humanities research stand and fall on the strength of primary research. No, congrats that is basically why some things are canonised and others aren't. It's a crapshoot and 100% elitism and social capital. This also extends to what primary sources are actually taught etc. Everyone in philosophy does Plato and barely anybody does Heraclitus (unless you're doing specifically ancient greeks) despite both of them being equally wrong.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:06
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Ebola Dog posted:Absolutely, you can get to the end of a 4 year PhD and still feel like you don't actually know what you are doing or that you have somehow tricked your way into passing the viva. Even the best PhD students I have known end up feeling like this at some point. "I don't know what I am doing" you literally just passed a viva, you must know something! It's crap and I don't really have any good suggestions other that talk to people (so you can promptly ignore them because they are clearly wrong when they reassure you if I'm anything to go by) and know you aren't the only one who feels like this. Doesn't matter how big or small it is. Haha yes - when I read my post-viva examiners' report for my PhD which basically made me out to be as lucid as Brian Cox on a good day, I did not recognize myself. My head was a black hole for the first 90 minutes!
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Nov 23, 2020 17:07
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communism bitch posted:I left school at 15 with no qualifications and got accepted into an MA in my mid 30s. I understand the material, understand what I would like to write, and I'm just sitting here staring at an incoherent mess of text with one week till my deadline and feeling utterly hopeless. a few pointers: - don't worry about getting every sentence perfect first time, just hammer out garbage and fix it in the edit. honestly, sometimes just stream of consciousness is the way to go when you need to get words on the page. - leave the introduction till last. it and the conclusion should be linked summaries, with the main body paras being your analysts. - take time off if you need it. sitting staring at a page and getting nothing done will just make things worse. go for a walk or something and think about how you might structure things or explain things better and try again after a cup of tea. - it's an MA, it doesn't have to be perfect. even if you don't get the best grade in the first essay the feedback you get will be useful for next time. the standard to get a bare pass is not as high as you think, and you can build your overall grade back up in other assignments. - develop a deeply unhealthy relationship with alcohol i can offer more specific advice if you give us the actual question you're being asked, but it sounds like that's not really the problem. the structure and writing process are skills that need practice, but you'll get the hang of it.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:10
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Start with an outline if you haven't already: This is essentially what I've done actually, so you've reassured me a little. I've split each section split into an introduction, exploration of the question through two criteria (level of public accessibility and the explicit or implicit educational purpose of the institution) and then summary leading into the next section. I think where I'm really getting tied up is in feeling like I need to reference every loving sentence and statement to some source in the literature, which makes it hard to get my own voice into it. Anyway, I'm determined not to ask for an extension before Friday, and I'm lucky enough to be able to gently caress off all my "work" this week and be able to take my papers into the office and just work on the paper. I'm just terrified of them coming back to me and telling me I'm a stupid twat and I'm going to fail. Ebola Dog posted:Absolutely, you can get to the end of a 4 year PhD and still feel like you don't actually know what you are doing or that you have somehow tricked your way into passing the viva. Even the best PhD students I have known end up feeling like this at some point. "I don't know what I am doing" you literally just passed a viva, you must know something! It's crap and I don't really have any good suggestions other that talk to people (so you can promptly ignore them because they are clearly wrong when they reassure you if I'm anything to go by) and know you aren't the only one who feels like this. Doesn't matter how big or small it is. Anyway thanks guys, you're all awfully kind and supportive, and it means a lot.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:11
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The first thing my viva examiners said to me was "Did your supervisor read this?". We then discussed how several pages were in there twice. Passed with minor revisions, one of which being "remove these pages".
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Nov 23, 2020 17:13
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josh04 posted:The first thing my viva examiners said to me was "Did your supervisor read this?". We then discussed how several pages were in there twice. Passed with minor revisions, one of which being "remove these pages". I genuinely have never heard of anyone getting major corrections let alone an outright fail, to the point that I wonder if they've been unofficially phased out.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:18
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communism bitch posted:This is essentially what I've done actually, so you've reassured me a little. I've split each section split into an introduction, exploration of the question through two criteria (level of public accessibility and the explicit or implicit educational purpose of the institution) and then summary leading into the next section. I think where I'm really getting tied up is in feeling like I need to reference every loving sentence and statement to some source in the literature, which makes it hard to get my own voice into it. Specific quotes or examples need a full reference. (And if you're a Pratchett fan you'll get to understand his references to the long tall philosopher Ibid, expert in everything). If you've used a book / paper as background, list in bibliography. (Keep bibliography separate from specific references.) Sounds like you're on the right lines with your structure. Outline - then as TP said just get it down in the right bit - leave it for a few hours then reorganize, precis etc whatever you have there. I tore my PhD thesis (over 200 pages) up and restarted from scratch several times and each time it got better. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 17:19
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ThomasPaine posted:I genuinely have never heard of anyone getting major corrections let alone an outright fail, to the point that I wonder if they've been unofficially phased out. As I understand it, if your supervisor lets you submit in a state where that could happen, he himself has hosed up bigtime.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:19
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When you've not written much before but you know plenty about a topic, it's easy to overwrite and bloat an essay beyond what it needs to be. I would radically simplify your outlined. (In X time it was Y, in A time it was B) and just write what you can in your word limit. If you finish and are still under great at more content. This won't be all your thoughts on a topic! That's fine. The point is that (if your MA tutors are good) you will then get feedback on "you went into too much detail here and too little here" and this lets you shrink your writing to deal with more complex issues in future essays more suciently and forcefully. Also - remember other people have just spend the last 5-6 years writing essays and still struggle with these things! You're not going to fix these overnight or even in a year. That's fine. They aren't going to fail you, they know when a student is actually trying and engaging with a topic.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:19
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ThomasPaine posted:I genuinely have never heard of anyone getting major corrections let alone an outright fail, to the point that I wonder if they've been unofficially phased out. They do happen, I can assure you. Happened to someone in my group. She was adamant she was going to finish in 3 years and submitted (against her supervisor's advice), only there was a gigantic elementary error in a diagram on the first page. Her viva was 5 hours and she was traumatized and had to do major corrections. I do know of people who have been told to do a complete resubmission.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:21
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Gort posted:That sounds crazy to me, the need for references was indeed hammered into me from day 1 at Uni and before. Jaeluni is even older than I am, and when I did my degree I was expected to write 3 essays a fortnight in longhand. So of course there was no ridiculous formatting of footnotes and bibliographies and all the stupid paraphernalia that goes with it now. We had to drop names to look impressive, and use inverted commas for direct quotations, and that was it. The amount of students' time wasted on pointlessly perfect citations is loving criminal.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:23
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ThomasPaine posted:I genuinely have never heard of anyone getting major corrections let alone an outright fail, to the point that I wonder if they've been unofficially phased out. I know of someone who had major corrections required.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:23
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ThomasPaine posted:I genuinely have never heard of anyone getting major corrections let alone an outright fail, to the point that I wonder if they've been unofficially phased out. The whole process of a PhD is designed so that if you are going to fail your end viva you either don't make it that far and get a masters instead or get the help you need to complete the PhD, that's why hardly anyone fails the viva. Of course things still happen, I know of one person who failed their viva which meant they had to go away, do a little more work and then do the viva again which they then passed. As someone lese mentioned it reflects very badly on the supervisors if you fail so it's in their best interests to make sure you pass one way or another. edit: One thing I am constantly telling the PhD students at work as they approach their final vivas is that whilst they are not guaranteed to pass if their supervisor has let them get this far then they are more than capable of passing and almost certainly will. Their supervisor has dealt with too many PhD students to put up with crap ones so if they think they can pass then they definitely can! Ebola Dog fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 17:25
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"Museums are a land of contrasts" - communism bitch, forums.SomethingAwful.com, 2020 I have a friend who did the same course ten(ish) years ago, I could ask if she's still got her old essays saved anywhere but she's in new parent mode right now so probably isn't super keen to go digging through old computers or whatever. It sounds like you've got the format pretty much down already though, just maybe hitting some killer impostor syndrome poo poo. It's mostly bullshit style tricks and there's no shame in not knowing them, they don't exist in the non-academic world so why would you?
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Nov 23, 2020 17:35
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communism bitch posted:If you are using references from web links instead of books or papers, then they have the habit of disappearing. Check your institution's requirements for web-references (esp 'date accessed') but also note you can save things in the web archive as permanent references. This link explains how: https://help.archive.org/hc/en-us/articles/360001513491-Save-Pages-in-the-Wayback-Machine
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Nov 23, 2020 17:40
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josh04 posted:The first thing my viva examiners said to me was "Did your supervisor read this?". We then discussed how several pages were in there twice. Passed with minor revisions, one of which being "remove these pages". I was actually given the choice of a pass with major vs minor revisions, if I'd picked major it would have been to get some more lab data but I was so done with that poo poo I took the minor revisions, which was about a page worth of different writing, all told. And then when I submitted the corrections I put the date as 2002 instead of 2012 which basically sums it all up really
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Nov 23, 2020 17:40
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:We've seen pictures of that house, it would cost £47k in the butt end of Cardiff. It wouldn't cost a million even in Islington. 3 bedroom houses in Islington go for up to that amount, sure, but not ex-council flats on the edge of dodgy estates (I don't actually know where he lives because I'm not a weirdo, but that style of house is almost exclusively on the edge of dodgy estates because they were built as infill at the end of the 60s council housing boom)
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Nov 23, 2020 17:42
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The amount of students' time wasted on pointlessly perfect citations is often considered to be "loving criminal."[1] _____________________________________________________________________________________________ [1] Oh dear me, UKMT Autumn 2020 - Amazon: We apologize for the Troubles (Something Awful Forums: Jeffrey of YOSPOS, 2020) Reference List: me, Oh dear, UKMT Autumn 2020 - Amazon: We apologize for the Troubles (Something Awful Forums: Jeffrey of YOSPOS, 2020)
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Nov 23, 2020 17:43
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communism bitch posted:This is essentially what I've done actually, so you've reassured me a little. I've split each section split into an introduction, exploration of the question through two criteria (level of public accessibility and the explicit or implicit educational purpose of the institution) and then summary leading into the next section. I think where I'm really getting tied up is in feeling like I need to reference every loving sentence and statement to some source in the literature, which makes it hard to get my own voice into it. When I was in college (god that was over ten years ago) I was taught to write essays using the "PEE" method: Point, Evidence, Explanation. The idea is that each paragraph should contain this information. You start off with the point you are trying to make ("Museums in the 18th century were poo poo"). Then you provide some evidence (with references!) to back this statement up ("here's a letter from some dude that said museums were poo poo" (primary evidence), "and here's some historian confirming that they were, in fact, poo poo" (secondary evidence), you want at least one source for every statement and more is better, but you also don't want to just throw quotes at people. Finally, you finish with an explanation of what this means, and more importantly why that matters. It's not enough to say "museums were poo poo, and some people said they were poo poo", you have to explain what that means ("people didn't learn enough poo poo") and what the impact was ("so they made stupid poo poo up"). The great thing about this method is that you can expand it out to the entire essay. So you use it in the paragraph as outlined above, but you also structure your section on the 18th in the same way - an opening paragraph explaining your point for this section, then a few paragraphs using this structure as your evidence, then a final conclusion paragraph or two. And then you structure the essay in the same way - an opening paragraph on your point for the essay, each section structured in this way, and your conclusion. This got me through college and university - but what I would also highly recommend is asking for help if you need it. I didn't because I'm an idiot, struggled through my last year with some underlying mental health issues I didn't know I had, and ended up getting a bit desperate with my dissertation because I was too boneheaded to ask anyone for some assistance. Speak to your tutors or whatever and ask them for essay writing guidance, they'll have loads.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:46
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Marmaduke! posted:I was actually given the choice of a pass with major vs minor revisions, if I'd picked major it would have been to get some more lab data but I was so done with that poo poo I took the minor revisions, which was about a page worth of different writing, all told. And then when I submitted the corrections I put the date as 2002 instead of 2012 which basically sums it all up really Yeah, my friend who viva'd on the same day as me asked to given major revisions so he'd get a longer extension for the extra work he wanted to do. We also had someone who submitted against advice and was given resubmission, don't know if they ever bothered to resubmit. Write your thesis in latex and have the references auto-generated in a style of your choosing, imo.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:52
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Guavanaut posted:The amount of students' time wasted on pointlessly perfect citations is often considered to be "loving criminal."[1] And this shows why you need to be clear on your departmental referencing style. For example, "Time wasted on pointlessly perfect citations is often considered to be "loving criminal" (Dear Me, O., 2020) is the APA style favoured by Journal of Geophysical Research. (Then in the References list at the end: Dear Me, O., 2020, References: Pointless Wastes of Time, Journal of Correct Crisp Flavours, Internet Shitposting, Nov. 2020 josh04 posted:Yeah, my friend who viva'd on the same day as me asked to given major revisions so he'd get a longer extension for the extra work he wanted to do. We also had someone who submitted against advice and was given resubmission, don't know if they ever bothered to resubmit. You can do that in Word too (though you have to learn how to use the References thing). I think learning Latex for a humanities subject on top of everything else might be a step too far (though it's amazing for long pages of equations - Word even with the equation editor is a pain in the butt for more than the odd formula.) Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 17:57
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Find a speccy nerd and bully them into writing your essay for you just like the good old days.
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Nov 23, 2020 18:07
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feedmegin posted:As I understand it, if your supervisor lets you submit in a state where that could happen, he himself has hosed up bigtime. It's this. If your doctorate gets to the point where you're submitting it and likely to receive major corrections or a fail, either you or your supervisor has hosed up to the point you shouldn't have been submitting at all. My recollection is that in 6 or so years of administering doctoral students, I saw maybe one or two major corrections, and no fails.
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Nov 23, 2020 18:11
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josh04 posted:Write your thesis in latex Personal preference is important when sitting down and writing but so is comfort - don't you get very hot and sweaty after a few hours?
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Nov 23, 2020 18:32
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communism bitch posted:I left school at 15 with no qualifications and got accepted into an MA in my mid 30s. I understand the material, understand what I would like to write, and I'm just sitting here staring at an incoherent mess of text with one week till my deadline and feeling utterly hopeless. Your university should run all sorts of courses to support students like you that have little or no experience in writing this kind of material. It's often the library that have responsibility. I'd recommend speaking to them asap as they're very helpful and often very good but you need to seek them out.
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Nov 23, 2020 18:35
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Latex is better than word. Both are bad. Whatever you do use zotero.
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Nov 23, 2020 18:37
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namesake posted:Personal preference is important when sitting down and writing but so is comfort - don't you get very hot and sweaty after a few hours? For both LaTeX and its namesake, discomfort is a strong motivator to work faster and a certain percentage of people become unreasonably obsessed.
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Nov 23, 2020 18:38
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