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Motronic posted:No. One went to lovely big box stores and one went to proper electrical supply houses back in the day as I can recall......but that was a very long time ago. QO is 3/4" frame and uses the same buss configuration as Cutler-Hammer's CH line (iirc) it's more compact and has a better buss connection system. Homeline's "GE compliant" and basically compatible with every other 1" frame breaker out there, Siemens, Cutler Hammer's cheap poo poo, and like a million older brands that are out of business. Although Homeline is just different enough that it'll fit like poo poo on any of those other panels, fit on the breakers and general tolerances is better than the other brands imho, especially Siemens, I HATE Siemens load centers. All the trip mechanisms and safety stuff is identical between brands. I bought a Homeline for my house because they were on sale for like 30% off, and I didn't want to make the trip to Platt for a household item that no one else will ever appreciate  We used to put QO's in when we did services, pretty much just for the fact that the little red trip window is a lifesaver for the average homeowner.
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Nov 21, 2020 03:35
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Elviscat posted:QO is 3/4" frame and uses the same buss configuration as Cutler-Hammer's CH line (iirc) it's more compact and has a better buss connection system. I'm not quite sure where to quote this to mention the lovely copper plated (if that) aluminum bus bar in the back of homeline panels......
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Nov 21, 2020 03:40
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Hed posted:Where can I buy Murray tandem breakers? From a million posts ago but Siemens has a pretty great UL approved cross list on their website for what the equivalent Siemens replacement part number is. I'm pretty sure you want a QT but check the list
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Nov 21, 2020 16:12
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Euros have the right idea with DIN-rail MCBs for everything, IMO
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Nov 21, 2020 16:22
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I've got a ton of unused coax in the place I just bought. We're talking maybe 10 feet of spooled wire in the corner of most of the rooms. I have some vague memory kicking around at the back of my head that if you're going to keep using it you need to cap it if you cut it, but what if you are never going to use it? Basically I'm really tempted to just take some wire cutters and trim that crap off at the wall rather than try to hide it behind furniture. It's enough that that's not super easy to do. I've got one room where it's either going to have to sit between two bookshelves (and be visible if you're in front of the shelves as a giant pile of coax) or push one of the shelves a few inches out from the wall. Is there any compelling reason beyond "but what if you want to use coax some day" (I won't) for me not to grab my wire cutters and go to town? edit: apologies if this isn't the right thread, point me to the right one if it isn't.
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Nov 21, 2020 16:36
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Is it actually coming out of the wall or did someone run it up under the baseboard/up through the floor? If it's on the wall you could terminate it and put in a jack there, so you'd have a place to plug it in if you ever wanted to use it in the future. Or just terminate it and put a blank plate over the box so you could add a jack later. If you think you're never going to use it though I'd probably just get rid of it.
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Nov 21, 2020 16:49
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Sirotan posted:Is it actually coming out of the wall or did someone run it up under the baseboard/up through the floor? If it's on the wall you could terminate it and put in a jack there, so you'd have a place to plug it in if you ever wanted to use it in the future. Or just terminate it and put a blank plate over the box so you could add a jack later. If it's in the walls please terminate it as f-connector jacks. The home network thread will be very sad if you abandon it in the wall. At some point you might want to run a moca network through your house when you realize that wifi is a terrible joke (or you want more distance / throughput than a single ap or wirelessly backhauled mesh system can provide.)
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Nov 21, 2020 16:55
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It's in the wall in at least some rooms (wall jack visible) and in others it's coming up under the baseboard. IN one in particular I think it's just a 15 foot coil of wire coming right out of the damned drywall. I doubt we'll ever use it. I really can't imagine a world where we would. Right now I'm just staring at piles of wire and wanting to cut them so I can fit my furniture. Edit: here pic thousand words etc 
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Nov 21, 2020 17:06
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If it were me, I'd probably use the coax as a fish line to pull ethernet into a proper 1-gang box installed slightly higher on the wall, assuming the placement of the coax now makes any kind of sense. If you're just moving in I would recommend just coiling it up nicely for now and thinking about how you could use it as coax or to pull different cable there in the future. After living in the space you might find better positions for furniture, TVs, etc and the cable placement might make more sense. Except for anything coming out of the floor, gently caress that.
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Nov 21, 2020 17:21
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Does receptacle GFCI protection in NEC 210.8 mean the outlets themselves must be GFCI, or would a dual function AFCI/GFCI breaker satisfy that? Follow up, any harm to using DF breakers on circuits that have GFCI receptacles? We already have GFCI receptacles in all places it's required, but we're putting in AFCI breakers and DF are only $4 more apiece so it seems silly not to just use DF.
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Nov 22, 2020 00:25
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GFCI protected is GFCI protected, doesn't matter if it's a breaker or an outlet. There's no harm to having a brake and an outlet, besides being a bit silly.
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Nov 22, 2020 00:52
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Don't make the mistake with AFCI though. AFCI protected needs to either be conduit until the first receptacle, or an AFCI breaker.
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Nov 22, 2020 10:13
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ntan1 posted:Don't make the mistake with AFCI though. AFCI protected needs to either be conduit until the first receptacle, or an AFCI breaker. Are you sure? 210.12(A) gives the options for AF protection, and 210.12(A)(4) lets one use a listed regular breaker and AF device at the first outlet as long as it's within 70' (for #12 wire) of the panel and an uninterrupted run. I've never used AF outlets, just breakers, so this isn't something I'm real familiar with.
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Nov 22, 2020 15:26
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God bless the electricians that built this house 25 years ago. Had a hunch, took the cabinet off the wall, and the access hole in the drywall was already cut out above the box for feeding wire inside. For my first time adding a circuit to a breaker box that was surprisingly easy.
devmd01 fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 18:50
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Blackbeer posted:Are you sure? 210.12(A) gives the options for AF protection, and 210.12(A)(4) lets one use a listed regular breaker and AF device at the first outlet as long as it's within 70' (for #12 wire) of the panel and an uninterrupted run. Bitten by California code again  . CA is stricter.New circuits can be protected by OBC AFCIs if the OBC is the first outlet of the circuit and the wiring between an ordinary breaker and the OBC is either concrete encased, metal conduit or steel-jacketed cable.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:51
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I have issues with my light fixtures, they are eating LED bulbs like candy. A little backstory, my laundry room 10 feet away from my kitchen light (they are probably on the same line) used to be a mini 2 bulb boob light. Upon noticing that one of the two bulbs was burning out in months, I decided I could either Now I have the same symptoms occuring in my kitchen light. Really, they have been happening all this time but I suspect the failure is prolonged because it's a single bulb fixture and the laundry room was a double bulb. I'm assuming the charred wiring in the laundry room fixture was a result of overheating, but how?? I have used LED bulbs in that fixture for the past 5 years, they draw only ~10W per bulb instead of 60w each for old fashioned bulbs. I have noticed the base of the LED bulbs get extremely hot, possibly even hot enough to cause minor blisters or burns. For that reason, I assume LED bulbs are designed to work with fixtures capable of cooling an equivalent bulb. I know it's not possible for an LED bulb to generate 60w worth of heat while only sipping 10w of power, but I think their electronics will probably still overheat if they are in a fixture that doesn't provide enough cooling. At least that was my theory for the deaths of my bulbs before I discovered the wiring itself was getting roasted. I can not think of a reason why the wiring would overheat before the bulbs, but I have accidentally left these lights on all night almost every night (wasting 2 cents of electricity each month!). That is a habit I am finally trying to break, but I am still skeptical that leaving a fixture on with low power LED bulbs inside could overheat the fixture. Even if the wiring is overheating, that is understandable in the laundry room with the boob light holding the bulbs inches away from the junction box, but my kitchen light is a hanging pendant style light fixture. In addition, I don't really know how to replace a hanging light and I am hoping that is not necessary. Unfortunately I put in a brand new LED bulb yesterday and it's already showing signs of failure like flickering and glowing extremely dim after being on for an hour, I don't think the problem is the bulb itself.
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Nov 24, 2020 14:01
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I'd lean toward poor physical connections of the wiring to the fixtures. Either lovely or shittily installed wire nuts causing a high-resistance connection which is what's causing the heat.
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Nov 24, 2020 14:24
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I exposed the wiring for my kitchen light fixture: The feed wires still have intact insulation, unlike the wires in my laundry room's light. I jumped a little when I first saw the ground wire but then I realized it's only a ground wire so it doesn't really matter how half assed the connection is. The wire nuts on the hot and neutral appeared to be perfectly fine, I removed them just to make sure the connections inside were fine. I don't know for sure, but I'm of the opinion that mixing solid and stranded wires in a wire nut is a bad idea, but surely the builders just used whatever hardware was supplied with the fixture so it must be ok. The hot wire looked em, as good as it could, all things considered, the neutral wire looked like a spidery mess. I straightened the strands and twisted back together the neutral wire as best as I could, then jammed the wire nut back on, and I have not yet noticed my light fixture flickering. Simply put, I marginally improved the connection a tiny bit, but I doubt I actually solved the problem. If the bulb starts flashing again, should I tin the wires and renut or do something different? Can I
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Nov 24, 2020 19:30
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If you are going to replace the wire nuts, get some WAGO 221's, they are rated for solid & stranded. Also connect up that ground with a nut while you are at it.
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Nov 24, 2020 20:38
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I checked on the website, and I didn't see anything WAGO at my local Home Depot.
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Nov 24, 2020 21:02
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Rasputin on the Ritz posted:It's in the wall in at least some rooms (wall jack visible) and in others it's coming up under the baseboard. IN one in particular I think it's just a 15 foot coil of wire coming right out of the damned drywall. Cable installers are the loving worst. Cut that poo poo off, push it into the wall, and patch the hole. If you were to call someone out in the future, all they'd do is drop another cable right where that one is, anyway. If you want to be super-future-proof, you can terminate it and put in a plate, but I'd honestly just abandon the damned thing. The future is a single cable point of entry where the modem is, and then ethernet cable to the rapidly diminishing list of things that actually need to be hardwired.
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Nov 24, 2020 21:20
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Not Wolverine posted:I checked on the website, and I didn't see anything WAGO at my local Home Depot. Lowesdepot doesn't sell the wagos, sadly. You can get them online, but any local electrical supply house should have them in stock.
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Nov 24, 2020 21:22
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MrYenko posted:Cable installers are the loving worst. Cut that poo poo off, push it into the wall, and patch the hole. If you were to call someone out in the future, all they'd do is drop another cable right where that one is, anyway. If you want to be super-future-proof, you can terminate it and put in a plate, but I'd honestly just abandon the damned thing. The future is a single cable point of entry where the modem is, and then ethernet cable to the rapidly diminishing list of things that actually need to be hardwired. I agree with all of this except 10Gbit wired is still far, far better than anything WiFi can put out in a residential house and if you live in an apartment, good loving luck getting WiFi more than 6 feet away from the modem. My experience might be jaded from working a few years as 'wifi technicain" for a major ISP. The solution to this coaxial cable is a remodel box + wallplate and finding out where the other end of the line is because you really don't want another
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Nov 24, 2020 21:38
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Not Wolverine posted:I exposed the wiring for my kitchen light fixture: Replace the nuts. It's good practice. The grounds need to be nutted together, and if the box is metal there needs to be a pigtail added to a green ground screw in the box, I think I even see the hole for it. Order some wagos online if you're feelin rich.
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Nov 24, 2020 22:01
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The box is plastic, the screws in the back are how it's mounted. I think there is another screw hole in that picture, but I'm assuming that doesn't need a ground due to the box being plastic. After tightening the old wire nuts, the light bulb is still flickering. I will make a trip to Home Depot tomorrow, is a Ideal In-Sure 2 port push in connector better than a wire nut? Is tinning the stranded wires a good or bad idea? I'm guessing that tinning will make the strands stiffer and more likely to bite with either a nut or push in connector.
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Nov 25, 2020 05:21
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Not Wolverine posted:The box is plastic, the screws in the back are how it's mounted. I think there is another screw hole in that picture, but I'm assuming that doesn't need a ground due to the box being plastic. After tightening the old wire nuts, the light bulb is still flickering. I will make a trip to Home Depot tomorrow, is a Ideal In-Sure 2 port push in connector better than a wire nut? Is tinning the stranded wires a good or bad idea? I'm guessing that tinning will make the strands stiffer and more likely to bite with either a nut or push in connector. Those Ideal connectors are not suitable for that thin a gauge stranded wire, you won't be able to push it in, there's no reason you can't make a good connection with a yellow, tan, or orange wire nut solid->stranded. Is there a dimmer on this light? I missed it, is the light you're troubleshooting now a boob light? If it is, it restricts the natural convection that causes airflow over the cooling find on the LED power supply too much, and that's why you're killing bulbs. If you had a bad connection on one of those wire nuts I 100% guarantee you the wire-nut would be melty and discolored. You can try loving around, but I'd just throw a new LED rated fixture in it. Also use name brand LED bulbs, cheapies are ridiculously failure prone. E: I also suspect a lot of LED bulb manufacturers are being reeeaaaallll generous with their wattage ratings, and how much waste heat they generate, I don't have the equipment to verify this atm. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Nov 25, 2020 |
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Nov 25, 2020 05:33
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Elviscat posted:Those Ideal connectors are not suitable for that thin a gauge stranded wire, you won't be able to push it in, there's no reason you can't make a good connection with a yellow, tan, or orange wire nut solid->stranded. There is not a dimmer switch. I also suspect the issue is caused by the bulbs possibly overheating, however this problem has occured with Cree, GE, and Great Value brand LED bulbs. I have installed LED bulbs everywhere else in my house with no problems, including in a pendant light with an even smaller and likely hotter enclosure, but this fixture is cursed. This fixture is also rated for 150W incandescent bulbs, so assuming that one of those old bulbs would not overheat in this fixture then surely a 60w LED bulb shouldn't be frying it's power supply but none the less the fixture is devouring bulbs. I also think the proper solution is to just replace the drat thing with a new LED fixture, but that means I have to plan a trip to the store with my wife to try to pick out a new fixture. . . The current fixture is the same style as the pendant over the sink, the chandelier over the dining room table, the ceiling fan, and the impossible to change light over the stairs (when that one burns out I'm selling the house). If it wasn't for trying to match the rest of the fixtures I would be replacing this fixture immediately. To that extent, I think I will take the fixture down again tomorrow, and try to measure the resistance from the ends of the wires to the socket to see if the fixture itself have a lousy connection somewhere.
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Nov 25, 2020 05:49
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Weird! Here's another guess, sometimes when a bulb is screwed in too tight to an Edison base (regular US lightbulb E:base) it'll smash down the springy contact that contacts the hot (center) terminal on the bulb, eventually heat cycling the contact and causing it to lose spring tension, this can cause arcing, flickering, heat buildup etc. To troubleshoot, turn the breaker off, and if that little springy bit looks smashed, try to gently prise the spring contact up from the base, and see if that fixes the issue. If it does, take a look, and you'll likely be able to replace just the base with a generic equivalent from online. My other thought is that the contacts in the $0.59 switch could be going bad, it's uncommon, but worth throwing a new switch at to try and solve the problem. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Nov 25, 2020 |
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Nov 25, 2020 05:57
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I recently purchased an invetor generator. I plan on only running it from plugs, and not backfeeding with deathplugs. My question is grounding rod depth, in the interest in making it quiet it's surrounded by plastic so i don't really see it grounding itself very well I'm thinking of driving a grounding rod near the location I will have it set up when needed for emergency usage (furnace, fridge and freezer and a few lights is the plan) Best practice is 8ft but that seems like a real bitch to drive into the ground, is it acceptable to go with a shorter length (4ft is what I Was thinking)? Is it acceptable to operate without any grounding?
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Nov 25, 2020 13:39
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Ground rod is for lightning protection. You don't need it for a temporary generator running extension cords. Use cords with a ground prong of course.
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Nov 25, 2020 14:40
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MrYenko posted:Cable installers are the loving worst. Cut that poo poo off, push it into the wall, and patch the hole. DO NOT DO THIS unless you know for loving sure the coax is disconnected at the DMARC, and the splitter port terminated. This is how you get RF leaks and absolutely horrible ISP speeds, and any amateur radio operators nearby will hate your guts for leaving live unterminated coax hanging around. You always terminate unused coax, and newer DOCSIS protocols are even more sensitive to this.
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Nov 25, 2020 18:34
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What counts as terminating? Ive got coax waiting to be hooked to a plate post-basement-remodel. Ive noticed slower speeds. Could that be related?
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Nov 25, 2020 19:07
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That makes sense but something I’ve never even considered. Pretty sure all the existing drops are good, but I went out and disconnected them from the dmarc splitter in the outside box anyways. I only need the two coax lines running to my rack for modem and power injector return.
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Nov 25, 2020 20:08
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This barely counts as wiring but: I can cut this style of LED light string anywhere, right? The ends are already cut off and unconnected or looped in any way 
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Nov 26, 2020 14:51
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Jenkl posted:What counts as terminating? https://www.amazon.com/Type-75-Ohm-Terminator-Pack/dp/B000AAN76Y You'd have to look at modem signal levels and error counts to tell if there's a problem. Disconnecting the other end of that's probably a good idea though.
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Nov 26, 2020 16:31
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Nosre posted:This barely counts as wiring but: I can cut this style of LED light string anywhere, right? The ends are already cut off and unconnected or looped in any way Looks like yes. The worst that can happen is the thing stops working.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:31
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devicenull posted:https://www.amazon.com/Type-75-Ohm-Terminator-Pack/dp/B000AAN76Y Oh yeah ok it has one of those. Thanks.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:44
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So something new to me just happened. I'd been using a shop-vac and had a box fan running. This worked no prob. I turn the vac off and on whenever I have to set it down for whatever reason. Then when I turned it on, the power to the vac and fan died. They were on the same circuit. The breaker did not trip. An extension cord I was using that has a lil light was showing as on, though not as bright as normal. My non-contact voltage tester showed power. Both tools work fine on a different circuit. What just happened?
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Nov 27, 2020 00:59
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You have a bad connection somewhere. Could be two things. If you can read 120V across it with a multi meter with nothing running, it's a shared neutral that has a bad connection at or before it "y's" out, this is super dangerous because when you turn something like a shop vac on, it draws that side of the circuit down to near 0V, if something much smaller is plugged into the other "leg" of your single phase circuit, it will recieve close to 240V, and it's a fire hazard. The light on the cord working and the induction pen showing hot make me think it's this. It could just be a bad connection somewhere not letting enough current flow through for a big load like a shop vac, this is also bad because that connection is probably getting really hot. I'd start ripping all the outlets in that circuit apart looking for a bad connection, if you're comfortable with that. If you're not, hire an electrician. Both scenarios are fire hazards.
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Nov 27, 2020 02:31
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So, I'm going to be doing a bit of electrical work in my house that is almost entirely plaster walls. Also, there's asbestos wrapped ducts. As a result, I figure that metal raceways is my best bet. I have electrical training, but no experience with raceways. Any advice/info sources?
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Nov 27, 2020 02:41
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