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Is there a particular reason they've given as to why masks aren't enforced inside the classroom?
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Nov 25, 2020 23:57
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How do you air out a classroom of roni?
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Nov 26, 2020 00:07
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Mrs. Sexual posted:How do you air out a classroom of roni? I too have to ask this. It's not a fart.
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Nov 26, 2020 00:22
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:Is there a particular reason they've given as to why masks aren't enforced inside the classroom? It's the government guideline in Denmark. I'm not sure as to the policy basis; my best guess is that each class is considered a closed social bubble.
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Nov 26, 2020 00:24
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Mrs. Sexual posted:How do you air out a classroom of roni? gently caress off, burt.
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Nov 26, 2020 01:09
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WaryWarren posted:gently caress off, burt. Put him on ignore and move on.
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Nov 26, 2020 01:11
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Mrs. Sexual posted:How do you air out a classroom of roni? You just cover it up. Just pretend that the teacher is beating his wife, and you keep telling lies to the kids and making sure the parents and other faculty don't tell anyone about the spousal abuse. If the kids start asking questions, ban them.
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Nov 26, 2020 01:15
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BeastOfExmoor posted:If you're not seeing an increase in students testing positive in this school setting despite high rates overall (France was higher than the US until recently) it would indicate that there's pretty limited transmission in schools among students. Of course there's not a 100% guarantee of safety (not sure when this became the standard for anything?), but it's a pretty positive indicator that we won't see huge issues when schools do re-pen. Ohhhhh I just worked out what's happening here, you bought into Trump's argument of "Cases went up because we test so much." You're not testing the kids so you're not finding infections in kids therefore you assume "there's pretty limited transmission in schools." Meanwhile, 10% of French teachers went on strike recently to protest the school reopenings and French riot police recently pepper-sprayed protesting students: https://www.france24.com/en/france/20201110-french-teachers-strike-over-covid-19-risks-in-crowded-classrooms BeastOfExmoor posted:As I posted earlier, whenever schools do reopen it will be with 0% of the students vaccinated so if transmission is minimal that will go a long ways of removing a vector for people who aren't vaccinated (whether by choice or medical necessity) being infected by kids. That doesn't make the slightest lick of sense Zulily Zoetrope posted:It's the government guideline in Denmark. I'm not sure as to the policy basis; my best guess is that each class is considered a closed social bubble. Their policies aren't working HTH 
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Nov 26, 2020 02:11
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dwarf74 posted:In this data set, through Week 39, it's 88,684 more excess deaths (compared to 2019) than the official covid19 count. Thanks! Congrats to America on over 1/3 of a million deaths - one per thousand people. Baseline may not be as different as you'd think, UK Office of National Statistics report on death rate during the pandemic didn't show much effect of lockdown IIRC on deaths outside the top age groups - their conclusion was that the main reason for death rates being below average between the peaks was wave 1 killing lots of very vulnerable/elderly people a few months early.
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Nov 26, 2020 02:24
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Ohhhhh I just worked out what's happening here, you bought into Trump's argument of "Cases went up because we test so much." You're not testing the kids so you're not finding infections in kids therefore you assume "there's pretty limited transmission in schools."  Yea, that's it.. What's your theory? There's a silent asymptomatic spread through all the school children, but everyone they give it to is asymptomatic (even the teachers and staff?) and so they never get tested? Snowglobe of Doom posted:That doesn't make the slightest lick of sense Outside of the Chinese vaccine, none of the vaccines have been tested on children under 12. I'm assuming there's a lot more complications and concerns with testing with children and the dangers possibly higher, but either way we won't be seeing children get vaccinated anytime soon. Snowglobe of Doom posted:Their policies aren't working HTH The graph went up, just like essentially all of the northern hemisphere, but Denmark is still doing better than the vast majority of Europe, much less the Americas: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1139048/coronavirus-case-rates-in-the-past-7-days-in-europe-by-country/ Edit: For the record, going maskless in the classroom seems like the dumbest poo poo ever for the reasons in the next post. BeastOfExmoor fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 04:03
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I can only offer anecdotal comments, but I am a high school teacher and have been back to work since November 1st. Masks are enforced everywhere except the classroom, classrooms are aired out every class, there is hand sanitizer literally everywhere and classes are sequestered as well as possible. It works "good enough" and is a compromise between keeping up appearances and keeping right wingers and idiots from raging out over a piece of cloth. According to the german RKI transmission happens primarily through the air, and touch/smear transmission has been very low. What would make sense is masks always and everywhere except for outside when distanced, and either useful ventilation systems, or airing out every 10-15 minutes. Hand sanitizers do gently caress all if the other measures aren't used. Also, about half of all infected people have no symptoms while contagious, and of the remaining, many would at best feel mildly iffy. So unless your entire school is tested regularly, you don't actually know what your incidence is. To support this hypothesis: Your number of deaths is rising, and your positivity rate (a measure of how good your testing is) has risen from ~.25% over the summer to ~2%, which is an indicator that cases are beginning to slip through. To put it visually: 
Mithaldu fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 04:03
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Children do respond to COVID differently, and there is merit in saying that they are a reduced vector of infection. For example, an Australian family had both parents get it, but the three kids they had all tested negative (multiple times) despite being with the parents for 1.5 weeks and absolutely being exposed. However, upon testing for antibodies, all three kids had them. It appears that children’s immune systems are able to get on top of the virus so quickly that they stop it multiplying, which means they don’t then shed the virus and thus do not infect others nearly as much. It also means that tests which look for the viral DNA more often come back negative, as they’re not shedding it. This is why many governments insist that schools are not a major vector. This obviously isn’t a blanket rule, but it does appear to be the general trend that children can and do catch it, but their symptoms are substantially muted and their ability to then infect others is greatly reduced. Nam Taf fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 04:06
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Except that's wrong. Out of all the measures, introducing and rescinding school closures has the most impact on covid numbers. https://twitter.com/pavel23/status/1330650179830214657 Cute to choose a list of 50 countries that ignores the other 75% of the world.
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Nov 26, 2020 04:08
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BeastOfExmoor posted:
Here's a pretty frequent scenario of events: - Parent starts showing covid symptoms without any known contacts, gets tested, pops a positive test. - Child gets tested for the first time ever, also pops positive. Your conclusion is that the child must have got it from the parent, there's absolutely no way they could have gotten it at school and then given it to their parent. Even though you have absolutely no evidence either way on that. You've told us that the only time you ever test children is if they've been in some non-school close contact situation with a confirmed case, so you always have some other potential cause to point at. And then you're claiming that the fact that you don't see any positive tests in the kids you've never tested is somehow evidence that transmission doesn't happen at school.
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Nov 26, 2020 04:11
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I agree with all of that, but BeastOfExmoor is a different user than the two teachers from France and Denmark who posted here recently.
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Nov 26, 2020 04:17
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Mithaldu posted:Except that's wrong. I’m at work and so haven’t read the paper (I’ll try to tonight) but I’m curious whether school closures are to some degree affecting spread from parent to parent? Alternatively, it could be that kids in many cases do shed enough of the virus to infect, but not enough to be noticeably ill, which would then make them an outsized group of asymptomatic spreaders relative to other cohorts. I’m certainly not doubting that data. We do know that children respond differently, however you’re right that governments may have overestimated the degree to which kids have less spread and therefore wrongly arrived at the conclusion that schools can stay open. It’s entirely possible that they can be a reduced vector of infection, whilst still not being reduced enough to make schools safe to keep open.
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Nov 26, 2020 04:21
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Nam Taf posted:It’s entirely possible that they can be a reduced vector of infection, whilst still not being reduced enough to make schools safe to keep open. Or in other words, while children are affected less by covid, those that get it are much better at spreading asymptomatically. (There's also an additional factor in that children are MUCH worse at identifying symptoms of illness overall, nevermind mild symptoms.)
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Nov 26, 2020 04:25
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Mithaldu posted:Except that's wrong. "Was associated with". None of those decisions happened in a vacuum. It certainly seems damning, but I'm not even sure how many countries re-opened schools in the time period covered in that study. I'm glancing through the study, but I'm not seeing whether they are comparing the effect of schools closing in 131 countries with them reopening in 10 countries or if it's like for like. Mithaldu posted:https://twitter.com/pavel23/status/1330650179830214657 I would love to cite a similar list showing global numbers if anyone has a link. That said, there is some value in comparing countries with similar climate, culture, and demographics.
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Nov 26, 2020 04:40
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coronavirus posted:You just cover it up. Just pretend that the teacher is beating his wife, and you keep telling lies to the kids and making sure the parents and other faculty don't tell anyone about the spousal abuse. If the kids start asking questions, ban them. You missed the step where you sabotage fundraising efforts to disinfect the classroom.
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Nov 26, 2020 05:04
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I'm curious to what degree covid-19 is any worse than the other corona viruses circulating throughout the human population. I guess I'm wondering if it was a disease we all caught as kids a few times when it has minimal effects (giving some level of immunity) if we'd just see it as just another cold. Is it actually worse as a virus (compared to other corona viruses), or is the problem that the human population is just unexposed to it.
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Nov 26, 2020 05:10
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Just to sum up for anyone who couldn't be bothered reading all that: Goons who think kids ARE a vector for transmission posted a whole bunch of evidence to back up that claim, including studies from countries which tested large numbers of children Goons who think that kids AREN'T a vector for transmission didn't post any actual evidence
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Nov 26, 2020 05:11
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Just to sum up for anyone who couldn't be bothered reading all that: thank you for your service 
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Nov 26, 2020 05:29
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coronavirus posted:You just cover it up. Just pretend that the teacher is beating his wife, and you keep telling lies to the kids and making sure the parents and other faculty don't tell anyone about the spousal abuse. If the kids start asking questions, ban them. Blistex posted:You missed the step where you sabotage fundraising efforts to disinfect the classroom.
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Nov 26, 2020 05:31
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Spazzle posted:(giving some level of immunity) Careful mate, that sort of talk will get you probated. Spazzle posted:I'm curious to what degree covid-19 is any worse than the other corona viruses circulating throughout the human population. I guess I'm wondering if it was a disease we all caught as kids a few times when it has minimal effects (giving some level of immunity) if we'd just see it as just another cold. Is it actually worse as a virus (compared to other corona viruses), or is the problem that the human population is just unexposed to it. But seriously, it's obviously worse....see all the people dying of it who didn't die the last time they caught a cold. We've probably all had a coronavirus at some point but what you're saying is "yes we've all been attacked by a house cat at some point, so is being attacked by a tiger the same?" Covid 19 is a new strain of coronavirus, you couldn't catch it when you were a kid because it didn't exist. You probably caught another variety of coronavirus though.
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Nov 26, 2020 05:47
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Illuminti posted:But seriously, it's obviously worse....see all the people dying of it who didn't die the last time they caught a cold. We've probably all had a coronavirus at some point but what you're saying is "yes we've all been attacked by a house cat at some point, so is being attacked by a tiger the same?" Covid 19 is a new strain of coronavirus, you couldn't catch it when you were a kid because it didn't exist. You probably caught another variety of coronavirus though. I'm asking if we have any idea how bad this particular one would be if it were simply another endemic coronavirus, after a couple of generations of infection.
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Nov 26, 2020 06:01
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Illuminti posted:Careful mate, that sort of talk will get you probated. yeah because you're banned from posting itt lol
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Nov 26, 2020 06:02
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Just to sum up for anyone who couldn't be bothered reading all that: If the primary method of transmission is aerosolization, it would make sense that younger children would be (somewhat) less likely to spread the virus simply due to lung size and volume of exhaled air. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02973-3 None of that is to say that in person schooling is safe or a good idea.
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Nov 26, 2020 06:15
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Illuminti posted:Careful mate, that sort of talk will get you probated.  (Nothing personal, thanks for giving me a chance to field test this one.)
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Nov 26, 2020 06:18
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Spazzle posted:No loving poo poo. After a couple of generations everyone who was going to be killed by it would be dead. 40 years is an eternity for a virus. John_A_Tallon fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 06:20
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Spazzle posted:No loving poo poo. That makes no sense. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 26, 2020 06:38
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Castaign posted:If the primary method of transmission is aerosolization, it would make sense that younger children would be (somewhat) less likely to spread the virus simply due to lung size and volume of exhaled air. It looks like that article might be making some good arguments: quote:But even in places where community infections were on the rise, outbreaks in schools were uncommon, particularly when precautions were taken to reduce transmission. More than 65,000 schools in Italy reopened in September, as case numbers were climbing in the community. But only 1,212 campuses had experienced outbreaks four weeks later1. In 93% of cases, only one infection was reported, and only one high school had a cluster of more than 10 infected people. .... but when you actually check their sources they're trash. Eg: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.10.20210328v1 quote:Data are extracted and analysed from an open access, online dataset that monitor, on a daily basis, media news about SARS-CoV-2 infections of students attending Italian schools Once again, all these theories and opinions and stats analyses are absolutely useless because they're didn't test kids.
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Nov 26, 2020 06:44
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Yeah, that first study is BS. The others seem more compelling though: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.03.20165589v1
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Nov 26, 2020 07:08
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Just to sum up for anyone who couldn't be bothered reading all that: Dude, chill, you are strawmanning like crazy and it’s not a good look.
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Nov 26, 2020 07:16
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HerStuddMuffin posted:Dude, chill, you are strawmanning like crazy and it’s not a good look. You've said over and over that transmission was not happening in your school: HerStuddMuffin posted:The high school I work at has seen its share of covid cases among students, but no transmission at school (so far). HerStuddMuffin posted:No student has been infected by a classmate. They either got it from their family, or through students they see outside of school. .... with zero actual evidence to back up that claim. If you do have any actual evidence then feel free to bring it to the table but you haven't shown poo poo so far, you've just made unsubstantiated claim after unsubstantiated claim.
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Nov 26, 2020 07:34
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Quarantine life is starting to break my partner a bit. She's seeing good friends of hers having people over for Thanksgiving on Facebook and poo poo and taking it hard. I swear, there's going to be a lot of us who make it out of this having actually stayed mostly quarantined getting PTSD from it. Right now it's hard to even imagine a future where I'm not wearing a mask in public.
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Nov 26, 2020 07:53
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explosivo posted:Right now it's hard to even imagine a future where I'm not wearing a mask in public. I feel this in my bones and I don't know what to say to make things feel any better. I hope you and your partner can have some peace today, wherever or however you can find it.
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Nov 26, 2020 07:58
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Here’s the French site I refer to for national statistics, [url] https://mobile.francetvinfo.fr/sant...rancetvinfo.fr/[/url]. Schools (primary, middle, high) have been opened continuously since September, save for two weeks at the end of October (vacation on a national scale). A small number of high schools have taken advantage of the possibility of going part-time on site, part time remote. The infection curve (scroll down a bit) shows exponential growth at first then a brutal crash. The crash is amazingly sharp, and I don’t know what it corresponds to, but it’s not school closings because those did not happen. That’s for the national situation. In the school I teach at, there have been a handful of cases observed in students, none in teachers or staff, and as far as I know no infection is of unknown origin. There has not been any student to student transmission observed, and the inference is that if there had been that were not observed, there would be some unexplained positive cases. I cannot prove to you that no transmission occurred inside the school because 1) I am not omniscient 2) you can’t prove a negative and 3) even if some occurred, the point I was making before you flew off the handle is that the high school I teach at hasn’t proved to be the infection hotbed I and a number of my colleagues believed it was going to be in September. I am not an expert, I am not an epidemiologist, I’m just a dude on the ground whose observations don’t match your pet theories, and I’m sorry it bothers you, but it is what it is.
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Nov 26, 2020 07:59
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HerStuddMuffin posted:I cannot prove to you that no transmission occurred inside the school because Come on man. I don't think you get to say "No student has been infected by a classmate," and then go on to claim that it's unfair to ask you to prove a negative.
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Nov 26, 2020 08:19
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This thread is now dnd
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Nov 26, 2020 08:29
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Nov 26, 2020 08:31
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