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Bobby Deluxe posted:Well yes, but at least the labour party were on the side of labour and not state-surveilance backed capitalist excess. Hardie was also deeply opposed to immigration (which was one reason he backed Home Rule: it would make the Irish stay in Ireland rather than migrating to Scotland) There's probably a joke about Blue Labour here somewhere
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Nov 26, 2020 17:22
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| # ? May 20, 2024 22:22 |
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 The mind of the liberal.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:22
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Those cards in the background are 
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Nov 26, 2020 17:26
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sinky posted:Those cards in the background are Yeah, that was what took it from "hah" to "this is an actual Art", even if unintentional.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:27
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goddamnedtwisto posted:
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Nov 26, 2020 17:32
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ronya posted:Hardie was also deeply opposed to immigration (which was one reason he backed Home Rule: it would make the Irish stay in Ireland rather than migrating to Scotland) Blue Labour, that's it, that's the joke.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:32
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I've just skimmed over the last 4 pages of the thread getting trolled again by a low-effort shitposter, so apologies if this has already been posted, but this is a good video: https://twitter.com/DoubleDownNews/status/1331910592446263298?s=20 (despite the clickbait title)
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Nov 26, 2020 17:38
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she's incredible
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Nov 26, 2020 17:40
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forkboy84 posted:ronya doing that thing where they say something repeatedly to insist "actually we're all neoliberals now" despite all evidence to the contrary compromise is not an exclusive remit of neoliberalism (thank god)
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Nov 26, 2020 17:45
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I kind of wish Starmer was willing to go full authoritarian and purge the left. He makes such half hearted attempts that to me he must want a labour with a target painted on it. For whatever reason a divided labour is good for him.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:46
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JoylessJester posted:In politics whenever I see lecturing on the virtures of compromise, I never actually see any suggestions on where the compromise should be. Immigration? that's always the thing the Labour right write the same article over and over again on, so let's take the hostile environment policy as an example. Should Labour just abandon those british citizens to win a few more votes? I don't really see it netting labour real gains and it would be a disgusting betrayal of those people. This.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:46
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I can’t wait for neolabour to emerge from this mess, devoid of any policy platform worth fighting for but turbo charged and super powered by an algorithm that mandates labour take Tory policy and water it down by 20%, achieving nothing of value to anyone.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:48
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Guavanaut posted:Is this what centrist dads are doing now? It was in the window of a shop in Green Lanes, which has always been a bit of a colony for people who really want to live in Islington but claim that Islington is too fake and they're hip and urban (but still safely isolated from the *actual* "urban" types in Hackney and Tottenham) so it's really hard to tell just how much of this is savage commentary and how much is them letting their BtL empire show through.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:49
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Oh and anyone who thinks compromise works should look at Milliband, a policy platform of literally “we’re going to do what the tories are doing but marginally less of it”.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:49
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https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n23/james-butler/failed-vocation James Butler (of Novaro media fame) in this week's London Review of Books gives a rather more interesting take on post-morteming the Corbyn project than the last couple of pages.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:50
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Crossposting this with CSPAM because it's hilarious: British-only passport holders barred from playing Prince William in new film graun posted:British actors will be barred from auditioning to play Prince William in a forthcoming film, because of new restrictions introduced after the country separates from the EU in January.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:59
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WhatEvil posted:I've just skimmed over the last 4 pages of the thread getting trolled again by a low-effort shitposter, so apologies if this has already been posted, but this is a good video: Naomi is such a good egg. Every time I've had a chance to talk to her she's just been the kind of kindly lefty grandma you'd want in your life.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:10
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Private Speech posted:Crossposting this with CSPAM because it's hilarious: When asked about casting Andrew, the director replied "No sweat" 
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Nov 26, 2020 18:11
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WhatEvil posted:I've just skimmed over the last 4 pages of the thread getting trolled again by a low-effort shitposter High effort if you please Actually i found today quite informative Thanks, thread.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:19
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I also think Corbyn should gently caress off and retire gracefully and the left shouldn't be defending him all the time since it's a lost battle and also he did fail massively to do what we trusted him to. It wasn't entirely his fault but some of it was. But kier is shockingly bad, I wonder if he didn't believe how dysfunctional Labour was when he accepted the exploding sunglasses E Like obviously his anti-rule of law government bag holder ideology is completely anathema to mine, but also he's spectacularly incompetent at keeping labour out of the headlines OR crushing dissent
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Nov 26, 2020 18:20
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Centrist Melt Zero Gravitas doesn't seem to take into account that Corbyn was going against a united right wing. Miliband had the Tories and UKIP combined owning over 50% of the vote. In 2017 Corbyn managed to stop the Tories forming a majority after they absorbed UKIP. That shouldn't be possible in FPTP with your own party fighting you, the press relentlessly hounding you and your opponent massively increasing the amount of people voting for them. 2019 was a Labour party hampered by a demand to contest Brexit from people who knew it would wreck Labour in the North, a press that went from hostile to full frothing bezerk at the left and new UKIP that only contested Labour seats in the Brexit party. They threw everything at Labour and it worked. Oh and the EHRC shows that the Chakrabarti report was right and the Labour Right was deliberately sabotaging investigations k thkx gently caress off
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Nov 26, 2020 18:23
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Communist Thoughts posted:I also think Corbyn should gently caress off and retire gracefully and the left shouldn't be defending him all the time since it's a lost battle and also he did fail massively to do what we trusted him to. Y'see The essence of compromise Magnefique
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Nov 26, 2020 18:23
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Zero Gravitas posted:High effort if you please It's the same recycled centrist stuff we've seen a hundred times before, similarly without any analysis as to why the previous two centrists failed so badly and without any reflection on how the change in Brexit policy might have have affected things. That's low-effort, bordering on trolling. If you want to seriously engage in an adult discussion then you do actually need to be able to reflect on yourself as well.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:25
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Disnesquick posted:It's the same recycled centrist stuff we've seen a hundred times before, similarly without any analysis as to why the previous two centrists failed so badly and without any reflection on how the change in Brexit policy might have have affected things. That's low-effort, bordering on trolling. If you want to seriously engage in an adult discussion then you do actually need to be able to reflect on yourself as well. Nah, I don't think a lot of what came my way was what we could call "adult discussion". Throwing insults for putting forward a different point of view that Starmer might have the temerity to expect the loyalty of the party as leader every bit as much as corbyn did isn't the essence of reasoned or balanced discussion and the lot of you sincerely need to think about how you come across in your own moments of reflection much as I am now as I apologise for a combative attitude. "Centrist" shouldn't be spat, the dialogue should be open and writing people off immediately for the wrong opinions isnt the way forward either for the thread or the party. The thread has given me some things to think about, but God do you guys need to figure something out for the future because right now youre like that caption for theme hospital nurses, smouldering wreckage, burning up with hate.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:34
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Cerv posted:https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n23/james-butler/failed-vocation Butler is too ... I'm not sure the word is optimistic, on anti-austerity as the lasting impact of the Corbyn project. The toxic politics of the immigration quota have died with Mayism but the toxic politics of the benefit cap are still with us. Labour finally formally turned against the cap in 2019 but it lost anyway so. The age of Covid has taken the topic for a wild ride, but where to is too soon to tell But I don't see any Labour leader managing to run on any platform that does not pledge to end tuition fees. This is only going to entrench further as the demographics of party turn more educated. Isn't that a major lasting change? It is certainly the mover and shaker in the costings.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:35
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Another victory for the Gonzo Method. Telling people to gently caress off works better than engaging them politely.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:36
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It's very telling that these melts never actually touch on whether it is important for the people who actually live in the country to try for the entirely reasonable and frankly bare loving minimum policies of 2017/9 and instead like to pretend that it's all loving pie in the sky ideology from people who have no actual skin in the game, despite that being entirely what their lot is comprised of. loving poncy lawyers and lords and whoever the gently caress else. People who go to loving fabian society conventions to tell people how understanding the real world means watching the right lovely TV shows. No it can't possible be that I know what I loving want and need, everything that isn't their precious loving centrism has to be the realm of deranged ideologues. Make me loving sick the lot of them. And then they piss and moan about how you're not being nice enough to them, as if their all consuming arrogance and contempt doesn't loving ooze from everything they say. Must be nice, mustn't be hateful. gently caress off, I've plenty of loving reason to hate. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 18:38
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Also I've just been granted full EU settled status so it looks like I'll be shitposting with the lot of you for a while yet. Was honestly a bit nervous but I did have a ton of bills and paperwork which I imagine helped a fair bit.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:39
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Labour couldn’t have won on a platform of Let’s Lexit because by 2019 all the people who realised it was a dangerously stupid idea were in Labour or the Lib Dems. In 2017 it split the Tory vote, and in 2019 it split the Labour vote. Even if that had not been the case, supporting Brexit meant supporting British Nationalism which Corbyn doesn’t; like Ronya said the one most consistent position in JC’s political life is that he doesn’t love the country just coz he’s from here and won’t wrap himself in the flag. You can’t run on Brexit without the Rule Britannia factor and Corbyn loathed that. By the time we went into the election, Labour had already lost regardless of what Corbyn did. It sucks but that was the situation.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:42
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https://twitter.com/fascismdad/status/1332006602602291201?s=20
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Nov 26, 2020 18:47
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Communist Thoughts posted:I also think Corbyn should gently caress off and retire gracefully and the left shouldn't be defending him all the time since it's a lost battle and also he did fail massively to do what we trusted him to. Easiest thing they could have done is just leave it all be. Have the report come out, offer an incredibly tedious response to it and then let the news cycle move on.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:50
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Zero Gravitas posted:Nah, I don't think a lot of what came my way was what we could call "adult discussion". Your very first post was going on about the "Corbyn cult" and was followed with some pretty pointless one-liners that we've all seen a hundred times. If you want to engage seriously then initiating a discussion,in your very first sentence, by throwing insults is not an adult way to proceed. Getting upset that, having barged into a group with that level of tone, you are met in kind, is also not an adult way to reflect on where things went. It is exceedingly silly to think that this level of crocodile tears is not only going to be immediately obvious for what it is, but will also not be met with the disdain it deserves. Stop throwing stones in glass houses.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:51
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Communist Thoughts posted:I also think Corbyn should gently caress off and retire gracefully and the left shouldn't be defending him all the time Corbyn is attacked as a proxy for attacking the whole of the left. To defend him is to defend ourselves. We won't stop defending ourselves. Zero Gravitas posted:Nah, I don't think a lot of what came my way was what we could call "adult discussion". gently caress off. Zero Gravitas posted:Starmer might have the temerity to expect the loyalty of the party as leader every bit as much as corbyn did Corbyn was actually standing for some principles, actually standing for the things he said he was standing for, and was overwhelmingly backed by the membership, which he vastly increased. Keir is a cynical oval office who pledged to support left wing policies and has rowed back on all of his pledges, and is waging a war on the left, losing members and pissing off the unions which Labour should absolutely be listening to. gently caress him and gently caress you. WhatEvil fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 18:51
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It is kind of funny seeing these kind of Labour Right apologetics coming from an account with such heavy meme corbynism branding. 2020 was a tough year for the soul...
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Nov 26, 2020 18:54
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Zero Gravitas posted:The thread has given me some things to think about, but God do you guys need to figure something out for the future because right now youre like that caption for theme hospital nurses, smouldering wreckage, burning up with hate. Nah, we just think you're a prick.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:59
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Corbyn absolutely was fading into the back benches until the Labour right decided that wasn't good enough and he needed to be expelled/personally destroyed. I think the level of reaction from the left in the last few weeks has very little to do with winning the argument of 2019 or whatever, and is much more of a visceral response to the attempt the smear and humiliate a self-evidently decent man who had already stepped down.
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Nov 26, 2020 19:02
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I'll say this for the right, when they lose they aren't so desperate to internalize and blame themselves for the loss that they experience loving ego death or whatever and completely abandon the actual poo poo they want, if anything it only makes them more clear about what they want. What they want is disgusting, but they know what it is, and they've only gotten more and more clear about it over the years. But there is apparently some section of the "left" whose reaction to loss is to just completely loving gouge out their brains and fill the hole with anything that they think might be popular, as if that's all they actually care about, is being loving validated by the electorate. Doesn't matter what their beloved candidates actually stand for, doesn't matter what their governments do, all that matters is that they're on the winning team. Absolutely loving pathetic. Complete and utter vacuum of principle, all they go on about is procedures and rules and whiny tone arguments because in the end they stand for nothing, they mean nothing, and they're too loving cowardly to admit that the only thing that matters to them is that validation.
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Nov 26, 2020 19:04
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Communist Thoughts posted:I also think Corbyn should gently caress off and retire gracefully and the left shouldn't be defending him all the time since it's a lost battle and also he did fail massively to do what we trusted him to. peanut- posted:Corbyn absolutely was fading into the back benches until the Labour right decided that wasn't good enough and he needed to be expelled/personally destroyed.
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Nov 26, 2020 19:12
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Butler also emphasizes party democratization, but the moment it was possible - after 2017 established Corbynism as the dominant feature of Labour politics and sent its demoralized opponents fleeing - it became no longer a priority because the party was committed to the idea that the May government could collapse at any moment and hence that the party had to be in GE mode continuously. A party convinced it is on the cusp of a narrow victory does not replace sitting MPs. It also does not engage in succession planning (remember the anger ITT if anyone suggested that Corbyn should anoint a successor earlier rather than later?) And open selections was not defeated by the right but by the unions, including Corbyn-aligned unions - which Butler touches on in the next passage on Brexit, but doesn't draw the link. Cynically Momentum was always founded as a mailing-list battering-ram to issue slate vote marching orders, which is why Lansman kept the keys to the kingdom close to his chest even before the constitution change, and only the very gullible bought into the idea that it was anything but the left's answer to OMOV. The idea of a community movement is perennial catnip, but really it was delegate machination writ large (and very successfully, one should appreciate). re: EHRC report, in retrospect Corbyn was always going to predictably issue a deliberately provocative statement that would make the topic about his response instead, because that's how he worked as Leader too. I suppose a more perceptive leadership would have urgently reached out to him to reach an alignment as soon as the report hit.
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Nov 26, 2020 19:12
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It really does say something when I can see a clearer future for us in Northern Ireland than I can for the English left. I have absolutely no idea what is going on over there. It seems to be a ten-year-long implosion and an endless circle of self-cannibalization.
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Nov 26, 2020 19:12
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