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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Why many did not follow the same thought processes, I don't know even if they hated EU with a vengeance. GET. BREXIT. DONE. e: we joined the EU in 510 BCE, maybe
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Nov 27, 2020 15:13
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Jose posted:boris needs a new speechwriter lol Which isn't even true? The rules (lol) say that if you live in a Tier 3 location and travel to a Tier 2 location, you should observe Tier 3 restrictions.
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Nov 27, 2020 15:19
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Why many did not follow the same thought processes, I don't know even if they hated EU with a vengeance. A lot of older lexiters I know considered it as a referendum about Cameron and his chums. They genuinely thought it would shatter the Tories. I can't fault that intent but it clearly wasn't going to work out that way. I think folks put too much weight on the Tories sticking to their internationalist guns rather than do an about face. Cameron resigning (as he said he wouldn't) was the end of that hope.
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Nov 27, 2020 15:22
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Borrovan posted:I think it's because they didn't understand the complexity of the question. People genuinely seemed to believe that it was a binary in/out, & we could just go back to [icr & cba to check the year we joined, I'll just wear my shame] like nothing happened. This also explains why everyone was so outraged by all the endless argument as to the terms of leaving, since to their minds it was just a simple case of getting out.
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Nov 27, 2020 15:34
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Soricidus posted:
It was absolutely obvious to me that you can’t have an election about whether or not to hold a referendum. The only thing that requires hindsight to know for sure is whether Corbyn would have won with a coherent message. What that coherent policy actually was is to some extent secondary. But a Lexit would have been a very hard sell, as a trade agreement is more central example of neoliberalism than a centralized bureaucracy. So to get anything out of a Lexit, it would have to be complete and brutal enough that it would probably have scared off half the posters in this thread, let alone the wider electorate.
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Nov 27, 2020 15:37
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https://twitter.com/netpol/status/1331951546460942338?s=20 Oh good, another step towards fascism.
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Nov 27, 2020 15:49
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Dishi Rishi's actin' fishi! https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/27/huge-wealth-of-sunaks-family-not-declared-in-ministerial-register The Guardian posted:
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Nov 27, 2020 15:54
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The Perfect Element posted:Dishi Rishi's actin' fishi! Now I have "You shall have a Rishi on a little Dishi. You shall have a Rishi when the boats come in" in my head. Thanks.
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Nov 27, 2020 15:57
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Gort posted:I mean, it's not over. It begins in a bit more than a month. Hmm nah that doesn't sound right
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Nov 27, 2020 16:03
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Well, that's settled then. Load off my mind.
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Nov 27, 2020 16:19
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Scikar posted:A large part of the Brexit movement comes from people disaffected by our democratic institutions, and doing this would just give Farage a freebie of "they just keep calling the vote again and again until they get the result they want". It would surely be better to first negotiate a deal and turn a nebulous Brexit of Daniel Hannan's fantasies into a real, concrete, measurable one, and then put it to a vote again to ask if people still want this. That's exactly what Labour's policy going into the election was. Anyway: https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1332298583983464449
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Nov 27, 2020 16:30
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Comrade Fakename posted:That's exactly what Labour's policy going into the election was. I enjoyed this, but i humbly entreat the mods to probate anyone who copies and pastes a lol so random generated motion, this isn't facebook
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Nov 27, 2020 16:38
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CancerCakes posted:I enjoyed this, but i humbly entreat the mods to probate anyone who copies and pastes a lol so random generated motion, this isn't facebook Oh absolutely, let's not have pages and pages of these now like we do whenever something like this comes up!
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Nov 27, 2020 16:39
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A motion to discuss whether or not we can post pages and pages of autogenerated content is NOT COMPETENT BUSINESS
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Nov 27, 2020 16:44
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stev posted:Now I have "You shall have a Rishi on a little Dishi. You shall have a Rishi when the boats come in" in my head. Thanks. CancerCakes posted:random generated motion CGI Stardust fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Nov 27, 2020 |
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Nov 27, 2020 17:01
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Lungboy posted:https://twitter.com/netpol/status/1331951546460942338?s=20 Can't wait for starminater to support it. Cos we all know keir loves two things, cops and mangling cyclists.
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Nov 27, 2020 17:39
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OwlFancier posted:Can't wait for starminater to support it. Cos we all know keir loves two things, cops and mangling cyclists. Correction: can't wait for him to abstain on it, demonstrating his deeply held principle that
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Nov 27, 2020 17:43
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OwlFancier posted:Can't wait for starminater to support it. Cos we all know keir loves two things, cops and mangling cyclists. Hell yeah, this policy is right out of the Blair years, Keith will love it
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Nov 27, 2020 17:49
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Also have a nice picture from this afternoon to offset my earlier big radjie.
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Nov 27, 2020 17:49
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OwlFancier posted:Also have a nice picture from this afternoon to offset my earlier big radjie. that is lovely, ty
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Nov 27, 2020 17:50
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It's basically thenorth.jpg.
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Nov 27, 2020 17:51
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Lungboy posted:https://twitter.com/netpol/status/1331951546460942338?s=20 starmer can't wait to whip to vote for that
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Nov 27, 2020 17:52
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I have high hopes for the post-brexit USA trade deal if we can have similar scenes over food safety standards being lowered https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/taiwan-politicians-throw-pig-guts-meat-row
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Nov 27, 2020 17:53
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vaguely related to starmer morrisons have got christmas gammon joints in and 2.2kg for £7 is great value imo
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Nov 27, 2020 17:57
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Christ that's a lot of ham. I wish I actually liked gammon.
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Nov 27, 2020 17:59
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they had even bigger ones lol
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Nov 27, 2020 18:03
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protection for the police bill for protecting the police. the police must be protected. oh and yes i suppose we would also like to protect the public, as well, if we have time
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Nov 27, 2020 18:03
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:At first, when the referendum was declared, I thought "OMG I have to go through about 9000 policies to decide" then I sat in my chair one evening and though if 'leave' won, then it would be negotiated by the tories and would, as you say, be a complete shitshow with total disregard for regular people because tories NEVER do anything to help anyone - any benefit anyone gets is an accidental by-product of whatever they are actually trying to do (shovel money into their mates' wallets.). That was the only consideration anyone had to make - "Do I trust the tories" - answer by anyone other than a single-celled amoeba MUST be "No because they are a bunch of lying, self-serving bastards" I therefore do not need to consider anything else. Yeah this was basically me. I thought "Well, I don't know enough to make a good decision on this right now" but then it was the loving chancers and grifters arguing for Brexit which convinced me it could only be a bad thing. Dan Hannan in particular just talking utter, utter shite, very early on made me think "No, it's complete bollocks, anyone with half a brain can see that you're talking poo poo".
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Nov 27, 2020 18:04
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There's a difference between voting Leave and whether Labour should have gone along with it when Leave won though. The Rejoiners all believed that Corbyn was a secret Bennite Brexit-man, so the more important thing would be convincing the Leave voting seats that he wasn't a London elitist who hated Britain. Like as ThomasPaine said, "Had there been a vote during a left Labour government I'd have probably backed leave strongly." The 2019 trick should have been to show that Leave was possible under a left Labour government.
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Nov 27, 2020 18:09
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Frankly, even if you don't like the EU, you should have voted remain just because you could predict that something like what has happened since would happen.
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Nov 27, 2020 18:10
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I think a lot of people were just expecting it to hurt Cameron and Clegg, and be a rejection of the Tory government.
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Nov 27, 2020 18:14
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Comrade Fakename posted:Frankly, even if you don't like the EU, you should have voted remain just because you could predict that something like what has happened since would happen. I abstained because I did predict it.
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Nov 27, 2020 18:15
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Protection of the Police from Public Billforkboy84 posted:Hell yeah, this policy is right out of the Blair years, Keith will love it
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Nov 27, 2020 18:15
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if Counterfactual Corbyn comes out convincingly for Lexit asap, he gets rolled by Owen Smith in 2016, who was already on a 2nd ref train during the challenge - the 7/10 positioning was critical to his party survival. And if not, then regardless he certainly doesn't have the activist enthusiasm wave in 2017 either
ronya fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Nov 27, 2020 |
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Nov 27, 2020 18:17
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Post 2017 election would have been the time to start making those sort of moves, specifically around the time when the indicative votes kept failing and it looked to the public like Parliament was stalling on purpose. Also Counterfactual Corbyn is the name of my post-punk band.
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Nov 27, 2020 18:24
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WhatEvil posted:Yeah this was basically me. I thought "Well, I don't know enough to make a good decision on this right now" but then it was the loving chancers and grifters arguing for Brexit which convinced me it could only be a bad thing. Dan Hannan in particular just talking utter, utter shite, very early on made me think "No, it's complete bollocks, anyone with half a brain can see that you're talking poo poo". Likewise. I didn't know enough to articulate my position on it one way or the other, but looking at the absolute shower of pricks who were all for leaving made my mind up for me, in a "anything they want can't be good" fashion.
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Nov 27, 2020 18:32
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maybe, but recall that the conventional wisdom on the Labour side at that point was that the 2017 surge showed that people don't care about Brexit. If Six Tests strategic ambiguity had worked, why abandon it?
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Nov 27, 2020 18:35
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Lungboy posted:https://twitter.com/netpol/status/1331951546460942338?s=20 Good luck if they want this to cover NI. People here bloody love protesting - it's a way of life for many of them 
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Nov 27, 2020 18:39
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Likewise. I didn't know enough to articulate my position on it one way or the other, but looking at the absolute shower of pricks who were all for leaving made my mind up for me, in a "anything they want can't be good" fashion. That and none of them could articulate a positive of the EU, so it ended up as telling a bunch of people who could barely afford food let alone holidays (because of them) that they wouldn't be able to go on holiday and food would become unaffordable.
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Nov 27, 2020 18:44
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crispix posted:That'll be a no for half the population of NI I'm not sure the government big-brains who think that any Scottish nationalists who see a union jack will automatically become prop-union and against independence have every actually met any scottish nationalists. And anti-vaxxers already have enough odd ideas about flags given the increasing crossover with sovereign citizen ideas I suspect.
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