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Salisbury Snape posted:Dogs are better than cats. It's just fact This is misogynist
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Nov 29, 2020 08:59
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RIP Dave Prowse, the Green Cross Man, Hotblack Desiato's bodyguard, and the body (and best voice) of Darth Vader: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQFho0_G1VI
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Nov 29, 2020 09:34
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I feel like this is the greatest rhetorical gift that any kind of conspiracy theorist can be givenquote:Army spies to take on antivax militants https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/army-spies-to-take-on-antivax-militants-mfzsj66w2
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Nov 29, 2020 09:51
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Cats are cool. Dogs are cool. Get a companion that will make you happy.
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Nov 29, 2020 10:12
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Continuity NIP posted:Just keep rats Correct answer. I just wish their little ratty lives were a bit longer 
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Nov 29, 2020 10:16
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Lmao https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1332755123886501889?s=19
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Nov 29, 2020 10:29
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Best answer: 
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Nov 29, 2020 10:40
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Care to give us some context? This is like when someone posts a kill mail in the eve thread and you have to guess what is so amusing/unusual. My guess is two liberals making GBS threads on one of Glenn's buddies?
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Nov 29, 2020 11:03
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notaspy posted:Care to give us some context? Oz katerji is a psycho who got sacked from the daily mail for using his mail email account to call everyone else assadists This is the kind of stuff he was writing for them https://twitter.com/TheTrashiesUK/status/1332982810437685254?s=19
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Nov 29, 2020 11:04
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Soricidus posted:Correct answer. I just wish their little ratty lives were a bit longer See also: hamsters.
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Nov 29, 2020 11:10
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What do liberals generally regard as the “right side” of history on Syria? Whenever I’ve had a conversation on it they tend to be very firm in the conviction of being anti-Assad, but then get very hand wavy with regards to what we should actually have done or who we should be supporting instead that hasn’t done war crimes. But I’ve never gotten deeply into the subject or spoken to anyone really knowledgable so maybe that’s unfair.
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Nov 29, 2020 11:17
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People are very quick to criticise poo poo but generally don't have a good solution beyond "dont do what the evil man did"
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Nov 29, 2020 11:24
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peanut- posted:What do liberals generally regard as the “right side” of history on Syria? Why are you even asking them lol. Are these not the same children who thought we could magic away the problem of brexit by holding another referendum to make everything be 2012 olympics best time ever again 
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Nov 29, 2020 11:31
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peanut- posted:What do liberals generally regard as the “right side” of history on Syria? Whatever side the US are supporting this month so I guess Al Qaeda
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Nov 29, 2020 11:37
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peanut- posted:What do liberals generally regard as the “right side” of history on Syria? You’re asking two different and not really related questions. 1) what is the right side? To me it’s not the dictator who uses chemical weapons and deliberately bombs hospitals, but no doubt others will disagree. 2) if it’s Assad who is wrong, what’s to be done? I don’t know - but not knowing what to do about something wrong shouldn’t and doesn’t invalidate the wrongness. You seem to be suggesting that because liberals don’t know what to do about Assad their conviction that he’s wrong is somehow nullified.
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Nov 29, 2020 11:39
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I'm sorry but that's completely disingenuous. The two questions are inseparable, or it makes the whole concept of being "anti-Assad" fundamentally worthless.
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Nov 29, 2020 11:43
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I mean we could always just not do anything and stop meddling in other countries
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Nov 29, 2020 11:45
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Soricidus posted:Correct answer. I just wish their little ratty lives were a bit longer A rat has moved in near the front door of my parents house because the birds knocked down a bunch of bird seed and the rat comes around to eat it. Since she has become aware of this my dog keeps patrolling around there looking for the rat. She can't get at it because it has to many hiding places. But currently this rats life span will be as long as it's luck holds out.
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Nov 29, 2020 11:46
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a non-liberal take: non-Western-bloc governments are realizing that colour revolutions can be survived by just shooting enough protesters, keeping a firm grip on mass media (the literal physical buildings where broadcasting takes place), and reversing any recent liberal reforms that might have emboldened protesters. The idea that people power cannot be stopped is proving false over and over again the Assad regime's tactical mistake, if anything, was to initially offer even more reforms, which only emboldened dissidents and fractured the regime's traditional backers it remains to be seen what ideological answer the Western sphere has to the new authoritarianism (there might not need to be a particular answer - of all the programmes that the authoritarian regimes have perfected, "how to climb out of the middle-income trap without a commodity boom" is not one of them). Nobody really knows, I think. Hence the ambiguous answers... certainly the tricky problem of the most extreme Islamist dissidents being the most effective players in dissident coalitions doesn't have any particularly enthusiastic embrace, amongst liberals or leftists alike. What's the left-wing take of the "right side" of history in Syria? it's certainly the case that Western-liberal-aligned expatriate dissidents have not faired as well in more recent colour revolutions (call that "end-of-the-Cold-War syndrome" - bluntly the West is not working as hard to entrench Western-influenced liberals as hard as it used to, simply because the Soviets aren't, either. e.g. there's no decades-long pressure over a Helsinki Accords-esque pact that specifically empowers those dissidents emphasizing liberal concerns like press freedom as the main vehicles of credible anti-government coalitions, or Western lobbying to keep freeing those dissidents in particular).
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Nov 29, 2020 11:46
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Jakabite posted:I mean we could always just not do anything and stop meddling in other countries yes but what if they have fun wrong?
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Nov 29, 2020 11:53
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peanut- posted:I'm sorry but that's completely disingenuous. The two questions are inseparable, or it makes the whole concept of being "anti-Assad" fundamentally worthless. I really disagree! One can make a moral evaluation about a situation that is completely independent of any practical steps one might take to rectify it or not. I take your point that it might diminish the importance of the position, as in “I’m anti-Assad but don’t have anything to suggest so what does my position matter?” But there is still a value to making the judgment. At least I think so. As to what to do? Sanctions, supporting anti-Assad groups, trying to bring pressure to bear on Assad’s allies, etc. None of which will probably help much. Your position implies that one can only have a valid view on a situation if one also has practical ideas on correcting it. I don’t believe that’s right.
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Nov 29, 2020 11:53
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Stop bombing the place and let everyone who wants to come live here instead.
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Nov 29, 2020 12:01
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therattle posted:You’re asking two different and not really related questions. You could just flip this around and say the right side is the one which is not literally Al Qaeda commiting 99% of the same atrocities though. The Syrian civil war is an intensely ugly sectarian conflict without any clearly labeled 'good' side, it's okay not to have to take a position and just mind your own business sometimes.
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Nov 29, 2020 12:13
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therattle posted:I really disagree! One can make a moral evaluation about a situation that is completely independent of any practical steps one might take to rectify it or not. I take your point that it might diminish the importance of the position, as in “I’m anti-Assad but don’t have anything to suggest so what does my position matter?” But there is still a value to making the judgment. At least I think so. This just seems pointlessly reductive of the opposition view. Maybe I'm way off-base on this, but I've never had the impression that the vast majority of what is termed "pro-Assad" sentiment is actually based on the idea that Assad is not an awful person who has done awful things. But it is already going the next step and acknowledging the reality that most of the other involved parties are awful too, and that western countries lobbing in peacekeeping bombs is only likely to make the situation worse.
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Nov 29, 2020 12:18
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OwlFancier posted:Stop bombing the place and let everyone who wants to come live here instead. This Also, the people who want to bomb the place get to move there kingturnip fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Nov 29, 2020 |
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Nov 29, 2020 12:26
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a careful answer here would be that when Western countries began funding and backing the Free Syrian Army in the early 2010s, they were not careful to ensure that nominally Western-aligned regional players like Turkey and Qatar did not divert funds to their own regional priorities, or conscious that the choice of faction to back in the FSA mattered intensely. The reality on the ground was that Islamist armies were much more effective at ensuring reliable supply of weapons, ammunition, and soldier pay than secular factions, and the more Islamist the more effective - leading to the displacement of both liberals and Muslim Brotherhood factions alike. Although the latter were initially more influential, they could not transform their influence to effective organizational capability later on. Politicians who are effective under conditions of authoritarian peace are not necessarily the politicians who remain effective under sustained months of civil war. by the time there was widespread Western consciousness that it was a problem, it was too late and ISIL was already an effective organization "if you are going to be intervene, be more careful and less trusting" is a lesson to take home, too ronya fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Nov 29, 2020 |
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Nov 29, 2020 12:39
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And then we can start bombing again, everyone's happy.
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Nov 29, 2020 12:43
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ronya posted:"if you are going to be intervene, be more careful and less trusting" is a lesson to take home, too
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Nov 29, 2020 12:43
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Syria is a horrible mess with no clear "good" sides, we (and the US) likely funded some very bad ones, Oz's grift for the last however many years has been using "pro-Assadist" as a stick to beat anyone who pointed the latter out. Whatever happened in Syria itself, Katerji + his affiliates' accounts of Fisk's motivations are bizarre and unconvincing in a way that doesn't inspire confidence in the accuracy of anything else he's saying.
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Nov 29, 2020 12:52
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multijoe posted:You could just flip this around and say the right side is the one which is not literally Al Qaeda commiting 99% of the same atrocities though. The Syrian civil war is an intensely ugly sectarian conflict without any clearly labeled 'good' side, it's okay not to have to take a position and just mind your own business sometimes. In short, Syria is a land of contrasts. Point taken. It’s complex. Can one be anti-Assad and anti-al-quaida and ISIL? peanut- posted:This just seems pointlessly reductive of the opposition view. Maybe I'm way off-base on this, but I've never had the impression that the vast majority of what is termed "pro-Assad" sentiment is actually based on the idea that Assad is not an awful person who has done awful things. But it is already going the next step and acknowledging the reality that most of the other involved parties are awful too, and that western countries lobbing in peacekeeping bombs is only likely to make the situation worse. I have seen some more favourable pro-Assad perspectives. But yes, lobbing in bombs probably is a bad idea. I never suggested that! (For good reason) I’m not sure that at the start of the civil war all the anti-Assad forces were so awful. therattle fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Nov 29, 2020 |
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Nov 29, 2020 12:53
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I mean you can be anti all of the above by not interfering, but if you are going to interfere you are pretty much having to back either of those two sides from what I've been told.
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Nov 29, 2020 12:55
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You can take the known corbynist stance of being pro giant asteroid, yes.
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Nov 29, 2020 12:55
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as one goes on and on about crafting Syrian paper coalitions, it is of course the case that at home one also has to craft a British coalition for some kind of foreign policy, and "radically left-wing solutions only" is not one of the options on the list either practical political problems like holding out for an option that isn't tenable, and therefore being cut out of the loop entirely, also apply at home...
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Nov 29, 2020 12:58
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What Would Hillary Do
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Nov 29, 2020 12:59
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peanut- posted:What do liberals generally regard as the “right side” of history on Syria? You know how some people claim to be antiantifa? Well basically they're that but for people who call themselves anti-imperialist. Assad is a piece of poo poo, no doubt, but the only reason we're there is because a bunch of lanyards want to cosplay the Great Game and Assad has unfortunately refused to play along. As such he's turboHitler to people who think Raytheon having a float at a Pride march is the pinnacle of human progress.
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Nov 29, 2020 13:01
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bump_fn posted:What Would Definitely drop bombs lol All I can think is how the original tweet could be word-for-word transplanted to 2002 to claim a writer is on "the wrong side of history" on Iraq for being "pro-Saddam" by opposing Western intervention. I mean the guy was by any metric a murderous dictator who committed atrocities against his own population.
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Nov 29, 2020 13:04
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Our continued backing of the House of Saud and everything that they do domestically and regionally is good proof that "is a giant piece of poo poo" has little to do with who our designated allies and opponents are. As a hypothetical, "if we have to back someone, I would rather back Assad than Salman, while acknowledging that both are bad" isn't an unreasonable position, even though it's one that Katerji would call rabidly pro-Assad. e: ^^ Yes, Saddam definitely gassed a bunch of Kurdish kids as a bare minimum, and ran a paranoid security state that made Joe Stalin look like the open society, but not-Saddam isn't doing so well either.
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Nov 29, 2020 13:07
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I wonder what would happen if we'd just let the freaking revolution against the Shah and the nationalisation of Iranian oil go ahead. Just take the loving L.
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Nov 29, 2020 13:10
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At least Libya and Yemen have gone well Apparently we're moving onto Mali next. Serves em right we've been putting up with their poo poo for too long
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Nov 29, 2020 13:15
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Finally, revenge for crashing the gold standard when Mansa Musa went on hajj.
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Nov 29, 2020 13:18
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