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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Literally saying "Well, actually... There's a thread full of Americans and Europeans 'splaining to Venezuelans how wrong they are about their country vis a vis the US so this matches up with forums culture. Going "death to kkkapitalism" while claiming that communism cannot fail, it can only be failed, is some irony poison out of 2007. Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Nov 29, 2020 |
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Nov 29, 2020 22:31
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" about the Soviet Union to a former citizen of the Soviet Union. Incredible posting energy.
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Fallom posted:D&D is full of people 'splaining
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Nov 29, 2020 22:32
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I rewrote it a little bit with an edit but yeah, basically. Throw in a phrase like "anecdotes aren't data" and you've got a paint by numbers kit for somebody whose main experience with a political ideology is a Discord channel.
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Nov 29, 2020 22:34
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US Berder Patrol posted:I'm pretty sure crates of citrus fruits are a christmas tradition in the anglo world, too No like getting an orange and a handful of sweets was like “the” gift,if you were lucky, and if you got an orange you were the envy of your school social circle because they were so rare and prized.
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Nov 29, 2020 22:35
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yeah that Venezuela thread was very disappointing.
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Nov 29, 2020 22:36
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Fallom posted:There's a thread full of Americans and Europeans 'splaining to Venezuelans how wrong they are about their country vis a vis the US so this matches up with forums culture. Going "death to kkkapitalism" while claiming that communism cannot fail, it can only be failed, is some irony poison out of 2007. Literally nobody is doing that here you weirdo.
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Nov 29, 2020 22:36
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Literally saying "Well, actually... One of my classmates left from Russia and emigrated to the US. He used the social programs like welfare and food stamps to get on his feet. He now works for the government making 2x the median gdp on taxpayer money. He blames Dems and Obama for the sequester and the fact that he did not get a raise during that period. He is a firm Republican and is anti everything that got him to where he is in the first place, social programs (bootstraps), government spending (I am owed money though), immigration etc. Socialism is firmly entrenched as hard-core communism, in fact anything that is not absolute free market is bad. Just because someone came from a failed system doesn't mean they understand it or correctly address the failures.
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Nov 29, 2020 22:38
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And LMAO, I don't think anyone is arguing that the Soviets failed Communism, Stalinist Communism most certainly failed. And yeah, as someone already said: Humans are the reasons most systems fail, Capitalism or Communism/Socialism/etc. But its fun living in a country that openly labels any sort of Social safety system as Communism. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Nov 29, 2020 |
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Nov 29, 2020 22:38
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Quarterbackless football appears to be going well. https://twitter.com/CBSSports/status/1333165679369916429
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Nov 29, 2020 22:50
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Terrifying Effigies posted:Buncha barges at the bottom of ponds in the Vendée might say otherwise. Or in more recent history, Algerians. (the ones who didn't have their tongues cut out by the French, anyways)
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Nov 29, 2020 22:50
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Deblasio says get back to school, you lazy elementary kids.
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Nov 29, 2020 22:51
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facialimpediment posted:Quarterbackless football appears to be going well. I told you, grab someone from the stands. Now's the time for some loudmouth to prove once and for all they're better than ______
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Nov 29, 2020 22:53
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Woofer posted:And it doesn’t matter what system we come up with. This isn’t to say we shouldn’t try, but I’ve always believed humans are just inherently lovely. This is it. If the system does not describe a way of being that's achievable with human behavior then it's not a system that will work, and there's no getting around that unless you modify the system or you modify the humans. If you think that societal systems exist independent of human behavior you'll always be figuring that whomever failed to enact your favorite just didn't try hard enough, or they didn't do it right, and never find fault with the system. And maybe that fault is purely that it cannot be done with the kind of people who will end up in charge. I don't know what we'll find that's better than we've got now. I know better things are possible because we've come a long way as a people but I don't think whatever it is will be something we've tried in the past 100 years except with "the right human." Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Nov 29, 2020 |
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Nov 29, 2020 22:55
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Milo and POTUS posted:I told you, grab someone from the stands. Now's the time for some loudmouth to prove once and for all they're better than ______ Local High School teams. Get started early on those concussions.
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Nov 29, 2020 23:03
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Fallom posted:This is it. If the system does not describe a way of being that's achievable with human behavior then it's not a system that will work, and there's no getting around that unless you modify the system or you modify the humans. If you think that societal systems exist independent of human behavior you'll always be figuring that whomever failed to enact your favorite just didn't try hard enough, or they didn't do it right, and never find fault with the system. And maybe that fault is purely that it cannot be done with the kind of people who will end up in charge. Let's also not pretend that human behavior is immutable. In the last 1-2 thousand years slavery has gone from commonplace and part of a normal society to so distasteful we had to create "race science" to justify it, to completely abhorrent.
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Nov 29, 2020 23:05
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Seems like capitalism with universal healthcare, free schooling, and guaranteed housing + food for every individual would be a pretty worthwhile system.
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Nov 29, 2020 23:17
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Stultus Maximus posted:Let's also not pretend that human behavior is immutable. In the last 1-2 thousand years slavery has gone from commonplace and part of a normal society to so distasteful we had to create "race science" to justify it, to completely abhorrent. All we did was codify it. It’s now the prison system. There are countries that still have full blown slavery.
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Nov 29, 2020 23:18
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Yeah they weren't boycotting the world cup in Qatar cus of the heat...
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Nov 29, 2020 23:21
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Grip it and rip it posted:Seems like capitalism with universal healthcare, free schooling, and guaranteed housing + food for every individual would be a pretty worthwhile system. So... socialism
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Nov 29, 2020 23:26
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Internet Wizard posted:So... socialism Capitalism with benefits.
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Nov 29, 2020 23:26
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https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2020/11/29/reports-police-investigating-mass-shooting-mississippi-city/6457474002/ Another mass shooting, though I feel like most of these don't get media coverage at this point.
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Nov 29, 2020 23:27
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Internet Wizard posted:So... socialism Socialism is an entirely different kettle of fish from capitalism with a social safety net. I'm thinking something closer to the systems that many European countries have as opposed to the current regime of "poor people need to die more quietly" that is currently all the rage in the USA Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Nov 29, 2020 |
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Nov 29, 2020 23:30
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Internet Wizard posted:So... socialism Calling that socialism is basically borrowing the term from Fox News. Capitalism with benefits ain't doing much about who owns the country's economy.
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Nov 29, 2020 23:32
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Grip it and rip it posted:Socialism is an entirely different kettle of fish from capitalism with a social safety net. I'm thinking something closer to the systems that many European countries have as opposed to the current regime of "poor people need to die more quietly" that is currently all the rage in the USA Those are largely Socialist systems. Socialist doesn't necessarily preclude a Capitalist market system. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Nov 29, 2020 |
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Nov 29, 2020 23:43
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Might I suggest Defenestroika. A system by which anyone earning more than seven figgies(pre-tax) a year must provide a tangible leap forward for the rest of society with their capital or be thrown from a seven story window?
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Nov 29, 2020 23:48
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Holy poo poo 70 missed posts what...oh socialism vs capitalism. I’m gonna add this question and a thought, but it’s not me trying to pull a gotcha or something.* Did the US ever try and conduct non-military related industrial/technological espionage against the USSR or PRC? Because I often think that’s a hell of an indictment against a system and it’s implementation...is that no one wants to bother stealing any of your stuff beyond things that go boom...and more often it’s to know how it works as opposed to reverse engineering it and using it for a large part of your strategic bomber fleet. And less it seems that I’m trolling I will admit that people who come from Communist/Socialist countries can wind up from severe worm brains about economics and politics in their new country. Although I’ll say in (some of) there defenses, if program A or candidate B being said to be the system in your old country is enough to make your not have common sense...it probably speaks more to the extreme trauma the old country did to said person. Hell we had a local candidate who the Soviets must have done something special to for her to be so freaked out by Trump...granted her political mailers...printed in comic sans was goddamn hilarious. Of course much like elephants...some people are just jerks...and I’m pretty sure was the racist latter half. *Because it took me a long time to realize when I was younger that thinking you can change someone’s views on the Internet (regarding political systems among other things), is the ultimate act of pissing into the wind. It’s not going to work, you’re going to aggravate yourself, and change noting...it also presumes that you were right in the first place to make it worth trying... and even if you are it doesn’t make it worth it. Anyway back to playing around with my new Roomba...hot drat that thing is awesome. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Nov 29, 2020 |
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Nov 29, 2020 23:51
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Pine Cone Jones posted:https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2020/11/29/reports-police-investigating-mass-shooting-mississippi-city/6457474002/ I feel like this might be news to people in Mississippi, but we beyond that states' boundary already know Mississippi is terrible. It should be a reminder to people there why they should leave, because nothing ends well in Mississippi. Unless you want a life of diabetes and/or gout. But you can get that in Wisconsin, where you don't sweat from every crevice for simply existing in April.
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Nov 29, 2020 23:56
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Nov 29, 2020 23:59
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The fact people believed that tweet was a true story still amazes me. A monopoly over all the eggs in Chiang's China. Sure, that's got to be true and not just someone joking or being dumb enough to believe a family lie.
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Nov 30, 2020 00:09
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Pine Cone Jones posted:https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2020/11/29/reports-police-investigating-mass-shooting-mississippi-city/6457474002/ Usually if it’s gang related it gets ignored, especially if it’s drug trade adjacent. It’ll only get reported when it’s stochastic white terrorism, but in such a way as to deny the terrorism aspect of it.
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Nov 30, 2020 00:10
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:The fact people believed that tweet was a true story still amazes me. Also it would have been pretty amazing for them to make it to the cultural revolution before being domed and still have mansions even right before then. Also in gently caress around and find out news. https://twitter.com/johnfetterman/status/1333187589529096194?s=21
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Nov 30, 2020 00:21
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Grip it and rip it posted:Socialism is an entirely different kettle of fish from capitalism with a social safety net. I'm thinking something closer to the systems that many European countries have as opposed to the current regime of "poor people need to die more quietly" that is currently all the rage in the USA Coming from one of these countries that does capitalism with a strong social safety net (g'day), there are a lot of risks inherent in this system. The same neoliberal cancer that is preventing M4A and free post-secondary education from getting off the ground in the US is constantly threatening Medicare here, and has successfully replaced free university with a government loan scheme, while the cost of the degrees continues to creep upward. By the way, it now costs more to study history than Engineering, because the government made up of mostly humanities graduates thinks humanities graduates are the largest threat to their way of life. Unemployment benefits have been frozen now for about 20 years, and are as a result way below the poverty line, and affordable housing and subsidized housing are a distant memory. We've been told the pension is going away and not to expect it for 30 years, with no real reason provided, but its value as a percentage of a living wage continues to shrink. My point in all this is that social safety nets bolted on to a market based economy will always be considered secondary to the market, and capitalist ideologues will be seeking ways to undermine social programs, despite all of the evidence that having a basic income above the poverty line supercharges your retail economy and creates more employment, compared with their preferred flavour of government intervention AKA fossil fuel or manufacturing industry subsidies. You can't have food, housing and healthcare security until you have killed the failed project of neoliberalism. If you want a fair society while maintaining free markets, the only solution is to return to a New Deal era taxation system, where Bezos and the like pay 90% tax and lose their ability to hide profits offshore - but even that seems unrealistic today. Thanks for comin to my Ted Talk; get a dog up ya.
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Nov 30, 2020 00:28
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Our education system has managed to make us so dumb that economic systems have become discrete, distinguishable purely by labels that everyone understands to mean the same thing, instead of a continuum. At least communism ended quick instead of this long drawn out fart of capitalism.
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Nov 30, 2020 00:30
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Meshka posted:Well I was born and lived in USSR and one of the post callapse countries and had family working for the government. Surprise, surprise, human nature always overrules systems except in this case you have two opposite approaches clashing and stalling everything. If you sucked enough upwards, you may get to pick one of two car models available to the public and a basket of oranges for Christmas. maybe communism failed because your family working for the government suck at their job
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Nov 30, 2020 00:33
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Holy poo poo 70 missed posts what...oh socialism vs capitalism. That's a lot of words based on a false assumption. The US government does industrial espionage on every one. Just because you are making suppositions, doesn't make them true.
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Nov 30, 2020 00:37
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PookBear posted:maybe communism failed because your family working for the government suck at their job I mean unless his last name is Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko, or Gorbachev, this seems unlikely.
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Nov 30, 2020 00:39
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M_Gargantua posted:Its a worthless comparison because every form of industrialization has killed a ton of people
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Nov 30, 2020 00:44
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Less Poli Sci 101 debates, more assassinations by remote control machine guns (a thread) https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1333080696282288128?s=20 TL;DR 
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Nov 30, 2020 00:52
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bulletsponge13 posted:That's a lot of words based on a false assumption. I don’t mean in terms stealing information about another nations capabilities or sabotaging stuff. I mean has their even been consumer good/tech the US has stolen from the USSR or PRC say pre-89 (or whenever one can argue that Communism stopped being anything more then branding) for the purpose of enriching their citizens or private companies? Porfiriato posted:Less Poli Sci 101 debates, more assassinations by remote control machine guns Did someone rewatch The Day of the Jackal remake with Bruce Willis recently in Iran? https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1333188332453588993?s=21 Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 00:52
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Also it would have been pretty amazing for them to make it to the cultural revolution before being domed and still have mansions even right before then. loving upstaging goonysburg
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Nov 30, 2020 01:07
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