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I always drained the bowls on the Honda before starting it up in the Spring, and it always caught first try, so I kept doing it. 
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Nov 30, 2020 01:18
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I think we’re on a different wavelength here. Draining the bowls is for getting all the gas out, but not drying them There is still a film of fuel left and that’s the part that in my mind is the most problematic Again we’re all just throwing our own anecdotal data around so  until a hydrocarbon science-doer shows up.
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Nov 30, 2020 01:33
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Is carb bowl draining some sort of holy war topic, like oil?Jim Silly-Balls posted:There is still a film of fuel left and that’s the part that in my mind is the most problematic Maybe so, but if the gas has been treated, what's the difference if the bowl is full vs thin film?
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Nov 30, 2020 01:58
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epalm posted:Is carb bowl draining some sort of holy war topic, like oil? Winterizing in general is, yes. My contribution: if you're leaving the bike for six months or less, just put some stabilizer in the tank before your last ride of the season, and that's it. No other fuel system winterization is needed. The stabilizer and the cold will keep the gas from turning into glue just fine over the winter. Draining the float bowls and doing other voodoo is unnecessary. My anecdote: I stored a motorcycle for nearly 2 years without doing any sort of preparation, no fuel stabilizer or draining or anything. At the end of it I opened up the carbs expecting to have to deal with a bunch of poo poo inside. Instead they were perfectly clean except for a light dusting of white residue, all the jets looking brand new, and after reassembly the bike started (with a new battery) on the first kick. No cleaning or adjusting was needed. Of course this was a Honda so ymmv. Battery stuff is much more important. A battery left alone for six months will be dead and unusable at the end, and the cold just makes it worse. Ideally take the battery out of the bike, bring it to a place that doesn't get below freezing, and leave it on a tender. It may still lose some capacity from sitting around but it should at least last a few years of doing that. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 02:04
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epalm posted:Is carb bowl draining some sort of holy war topic, like oil? Yes, which is why I’m so hesitant to have it. It’s all anecdotal “this worked for me” evidence with zero science backing, just like oil arguments, which are the worst. I’m aware of my bad posting is what I’m saying
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Nov 30, 2020 02:42
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Someone needs to go to the junkyard and pick up some identical racks of I4 carbs, separate them all out, fill them up with gas, and test each recommended winterization method simultaneously over the same winter. It's the only way to be sure
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Nov 30, 2020 02:51
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chsGBhB5g7o HenryJLittlefinger fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 03:29
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All I know is I've never seen carbs that were all hosed up and filled with goo because someone drained them, but hundreds that got put away without being drained and the subsequent varnish and goo clogs everything. I think any hypothetical thin film will vanish from evaporation long before it can do any harm. Fuel stabilizer I have no idea, nobody here uses it. I honestly don't see why this is controversial at all. You drain the carbs before putting the bike away or transporting it, the owner's manual will even tell you so, it's a widely accepted normal thing to do. I have literally never encountered anyone arguing to the contrary outside of this forum. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 05:14
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Isn't there some premium non-corn gas you can get for your last few tanks instead? I've never used stabilizer, never drained bowls and never had the carbs gunk up, but live in a place where they don't put ethanol in gas.
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Nov 30, 2020 07:29
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Ola posted:Isn't there some premium non-corn gas you can get for your last few tanks instead? I've never used stabilizer, never drained bowls and never had the carbs gunk up, but live in a place where they don't put ethanol in gas. Normal gas is e10 here, some that's advertised as e5 actually has no ethanol so it's best to put that in before storing the bike for the winter (but you have to know which to get). However, the market has provided and you can buy cans of expensive guaranteed ethanol-free winterizing / old-timer gas.
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Nov 30, 2020 08:25
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Isn't fuel stabiliser just the same isopropanol and detergent mix that they tend to add to pump fuel in areas that have below-freezing winters anyway? I thought the point of it was to ensure any water that condenses into the fuel in the tank through cold, damp winters stays in solution rather than settling at the bottom of tank to be sucked through the fuel system when you start it up.
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Nov 30, 2020 08:40
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Ola posted:Isn't there some premium non-corn gas you can get for your last few tanks instead? I've never used stabilizer, never drained bowls and never had the carbs gunk up, but live in a place where they don't put ethanol in gas. Sadly we're getting more blended in here too. On all our nx250 bikes(me and my brother has 3 in total)we get a little hesitation with Cirkle K 95 at around 5000rpm. I think that's where the low rpm needle stops, main takes over. With 95 from YX, shell and Esso we have no issues.
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Nov 30, 2020 09:17
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First time ive owned a carbed bike through a winter. I plan on using my old 900 Fireblade once a week. Can I just carry on as usual? In the UK so not a severe winter.
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Nov 30, 2020 11:00
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Top tip: if you never stop riding you never have to worry about the gas going bad  Oibignose posted:First time ive owned a carbed bike through a winter. I plan on using my old 900 Fireblade once a week. Can I just carry on as usual? In the UK so not a severe winter. If it's an official UK model then almost certainly yes. Bikes sold here tend to have a branch line off the radiator that runs along the carbs to keep them warm to stop icing from being an issue. All your exposed (non-stainless) steel parts will get hosed up from road salt, but imo it's a reasonable trade-off for not having to think about draining the fuel or putting the battery on a tender or any of that stuff. Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 11:29
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Renaissance Robot posted:Top tip: if you never stop riding you never have to worry about the gas going bad Assumed so but good to have it confirmed
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Nov 30, 2020 11:36
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Renaissance Robot posted:Top tip: if you never stop riding you never have to worry about the gas going bad If you've got the ability, running a hose over the areas most likely to be affected (i.e. bits you can't cover with rustproofer or vaseline like brake calipers, headers, engine bolts) for a minute or two when you get home to rinse most of the salt and other crud off will slow this right down. You can also avoid most carb icing by mixing 1:50 isopropanol into the fuel (make sure you use 99% - 70% or lower will make it worse) - you can up this to 1:20 for worst-case conditions but it might lead to slightly rough running.
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Nov 30, 2020 12:10
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Isn't fuel stabiliser just the same isopropanol and detergent mix that they tend to add to pump fuel in areas that have below-freezing winters anyway? I thought the point of it was to ensure any water that condenses into the fuel in the tank through cold, damp winters stays in solution rather than settling at the bottom of tank to be sucked through the fuel system when you start it up. I'm sure someone posted this a couple of weeks ago, but here it is again since we're on the topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chsGBhB5g7o
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Nov 30, 2020 13:40
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Interestingly, my MV mechanic recommended a tiny amount of 2 stroke oil for winterizing my (non-cat) MV's ethanol mixture fuel.
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Nov 30, 2020 13:49
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Finger Prince posted:I'm sure someone posted this a couple of weeks ago, but here it is again since we're on the topic. I posted it in this very discussion 10 posts above yours
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Nov 30, 2020 17:59
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:I posted it in this very discussion 10 posts above yours Lol that's probably what triggered it then, so it's your fault ultimately.
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Nov 30, 2020 18:18
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Well maybe everyone will watch the drat thing now that between quotes and posts it's up on this page three times. I know Ryan isn't a full-on Scientist, but he does a way better job actually comparing things than the average consumer or internet expert. I was very glad that I had not dumped a bunch of Seafoam in my tank for an indeterminate sit when I watched that video the other day.
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Nov 30, 2020 18:35
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That’s the anecdotal part that I don’t like about this whole thing I put seafoam in my RV90 one and a half whole years ago and then it sat until a couple weeks ago. Fired on the 3rd kick. Spent the day riding trails and farm fields without so much as a hiccup. On seafoam. None of it makes sense
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Nov 30, 2020 18:40
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I suspect engine characteristics like compression ratio, ignition timing etc have an influence so some are more affected than others. Plus the various ethanol blends to muddy the waters.
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Nov 30, 2020 18:44
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Science has already provided a solution to this whole problem, by the way. It's called fuel injection. 
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Nov 30, 2020 18:52
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Finger Prince posted:Science has already provided a solution to this whole problem, by the way. It's called fuel injection. Science can't replicate the buttery smooth first-touch of the throttle  (actually it can but most don't bother cause perfecting throttle response with computers is expensive)
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Nov 30, 2020 18:55
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Finger Prince posted:Science has already provided a solution to this whole problem, by the way. It's called fuel injection. the wr250r that I owned came out of the back of a storage unit after sitting for 2.5 years. It started and ran with a jump, on the fuel that was in it. Granted not great, but it did run. Didn't do anything outside of drain the tank, throw some fresh in + a little seafoam. 2t premix oil has stabilizer in it. The yz250sm I owned sat for a few years (because it was a huge pos), it ran alright on the fuel it had in it. I've drained carbs and also not drained carbs + fuel stabilizer. hit or miss, It is like oil. Do what suits you. Seals and float valves are still gonna dry out. If the climate is super humid with varying temperature changes the float bowl can sweat. I left the drz empty for four months when I hosed up my knee in 2016, it didn't care. I didn't drain the 950 back in march, and it was fine when I dug it out in july. Just rolled it into storage again, though this time there's next to no fuel in it. (with stabilizer however) It'll be fine come next spring, and if not, I'll fix it. It'll probably poo poo the inlet o-rings again for sure. This year killed the several-year-old Yuasa in it. The idiot friend I sold my drz to left it sitting for *years* empty, The float valve is stuck open and he's not figured out how to unfuck it. Had the same issue with the fzr400. It sat in the back of a shop for a decade. one by one the float valves took a poo poo. I learned how to pull the carbs on that thing quick as there was no end of carb issues early on from sitting.
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Nov 30, 2020 19:25
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Actually injectors clog slowly over time and just get crappy over a time period that’s long enough that you don’t notice. Where this idea that injectors are immune to crud buildup came from I will never know. They almost never get to the point where they won’t start the engine but they absolutely do build up crap in the apertures and whatnot
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Nov 30, 2020 19:27
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Update on the GN125: She made it work today by using choke when it was cold and then not using the choke when it was still warm after coming out of a shop.
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Nov 30, 2020 19:33
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Actually injectors clog slowly over time and just get crappy over a time period that’s long enough that you don’t notice. It's amazing how much you can gain on and old efi bike with an injector cleaning. Steakandchips posted:Update on the GN125: So it was user error, then.
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Nov 30, 2020 19:49
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Slavvy posted:So it was user error, then. I imagine so, but lets see if it cocks up at some point again soon...
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Nov 30, 2020 20:10
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Carbs on the GN125 have reached disposable levels, with cheap Chinese $20 Mikuni copies on ebay, brand new. I've had one for several years on my GN. The metal corrodes quickly, but otherwise, the carb works fine.
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Nov 30, 2020 21:42
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My brother bought a 2004 CRF230F this summer and has always had trouble getting it warmed up/started. The person we bought it from was an older lady, and apparently her husband bought and threw a street-legal kit on it to make it road legal. It has an aftermarket exhaust too, but really doubt the previous owner went through the trouble of jetting it correctly. Since he's no longer riding between school/winter, he has time to work on his first bike - what's the best way to go about re-jetting it? Is jetting it now not worth it due to ambient temperatures differences come riding season next April? Just find someone elses jets on a Honda forum somewhere for our altitude/temps? Carbs man
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Dec 1, 2020 05:46
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kloa posted:My brother bought a 2004 CRF230F this summer and has always had trouble getting it warmed up/started. The person we bought it from was an older lady, and apparently her husband bought and threw a street-legal kit on it to make it road legal. It has an aftermarket exhaust too, but really doubt the previous owner went through the trouble of jetting it correctly. Cliffnotes version: First make sure the bike is in the best shape it can be by changing the oil, replacing the plug, sorting the air filter etc. Starting is controlled via the carb's pilot circuit, which operates mostly when the throttle is shut, and the choke. The pilot supplies a certain amount of fuel/air at a certain ratio, the choke increases the fuel (making the mixture richer) and is used to compensate for cold engine and atmospheric temperature. You can tune the pilot mixture coarsely by replacing the pilot jet with a larger or smaller one; they are sized by number with bigger = richer. For just an aftermarket exhaust on a lazy small thumper I wouldn't expect more than 5 digits difference. This may or may not be necessary because... .... You can tune the mixture finely by turning the pilot screw. If you have a CV carb (round flattened mario mushroom top), usually turning it in makes it leaner, if you have a mechanical slide carb it's 50/50 whether turning it in makes it leaner or richer, internet can help you here. Normal settings are usually around 1.25-3.0 turns. Get the bike warmed up to normal temp, then turn the pilot screw a quarter turn at a time, listening for the idle to go up or down. Fully lean should kill the bike (if it doesn't it's getting fuel elsewhere), fully rich should make it splutter and cough and maybe die. If you blip the throttle and the idle 'hangs' high for a bit before eventually settling, you are running too lean. If you blip and it falls to a slow faltering idle or stalls, too rich. Somewhere in the middle is the happy medium for your particular bike and climactic conditions, after all this you set your idle speed with the idle speed twiddler, bearing in mind the idle speed itself can have a minor effect on pilot mixture. You may have to go turn the idle down several times if the bike is really far out of whack. If you can't get the bike to start well without having the pilot screw cranked fully rich, you need to go up on the pilot jet. If it runs with the pilot totally shut it's either got the idle cranked insanely high or the pilot jet is too big. Sometimes aftermarket pipes can be compensated for with a quarter turn of the pilot and nothing else, sometimes you need to change jets. Sometimes the PO has vastly overestimated how much to upjet and poo poo is hosed, going back to factory is a good choice here. Once it's starting well you can start tackling part and full throttle settings. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 07:09
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That is a really good guide to get things going. Carbs aren’t super complicated, you just need to manage variables. Also note that you want it as stock as possible for tuning. If the air box has been, say, replaced by a pod filter , it’s gonna be harder to tune.
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Dec 1, 2020 09:50
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Also note that you want it as stock as possible for tuning. If the air box has been, say, replaced by a pod filter , it’s gonna be harder to tune. I couldn't make up my mind whether to include this for brevity 
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Dec 1, 2020 10:05
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I was going to say, start at stock and go from there. Probably wouldn't hurt to clean the carb while you're at it. Check the spark plugs and valve clearances? Seriously though just listen to Slavy ...
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Dec 1, 2020 10:18
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:That is a really good guide to get things going. Carbs aren’t super complicated, you just need to manage variables. adding to that. Change one variable at a time. keep a notebook and log the change and the results of the change. That way if 3 changes down you're not satisfied, you have a table to refer to.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:39
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 Does anyone know what this bracket type is? This is a Triumph Bag if that helps.
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Dec 2, 2020 00:40
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GOOD NEWS EVERYONE, YOU CAN GO BACK TO SLEEPING AT NIGHT AGAIN. Did the oil change on my neglected Street Triple R, for some reason the bike took almost the full dry fill amount of 3.6 litres to get to full on the dipstick, not sure what that’s about. Battery eventually got enough juice in it from the trickle charger to kick over. Bike started up pretty quick, horrible clacking stopped in a second or so, no oil pressure light. Did get an engine management warning light, but I let the bike warm right up, gave it a few revs, shut it down and rechecked the oil level, and fired it up again. Engine management light gone. Job’s a good’n. Thanks again from talking me down from Mount Worrisome, Slavvy et al.
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Dec 2, 2020 08:03
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After all that palaver, all the issue was that you were low on oil?
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Dec 2, 2020 11:04
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