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Greenplastic posted:Spoiler for the endgame room after the boss: I mean its the literal first thing i thought of when i beat the boss the first time Edit: Beat the boss (8th win) yesterday and decided to dick around because i had an overpowered digging wand, only to die before i made it (back) to the portal. I consider it a win. Damnit.
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Dec 2, 2020 17:36
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animatorZed posted:e: in less insanely idiotic news, finally managed to kill this rear end in a top hat Dang, congrats, that's a kill that's still eluded me. It feels like unless you get homing or rapid-fire damage fields, pretty much nothing will kill it quickly.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:03
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If anything damage fields make it harder since the tick with trigger its resistance shield and your actual projectile won't do much I have the best luck with a single projectile amped up with massive +dmg mods
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Dec 2, 2020 18:07
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I thought I remembered reading somewhere that damage field didn't tick the shield. But it wouldn't surprise me if that were no longer the case, since it does feel like an exploit. In any case, in the quoted video you can see the Collector's healthbar dropping pretty dang fast.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:44
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Greenplastic posted:Spoiler for the endgame room after the boss: i was thinking the ring should turn gold first, then the rest of the world.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:44
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Dang, congrats, that's a kill that's still eluded me. It feels like unless you get homing or rapid-fire damage fields, pretty much nothing will kill it quickly. Thanks. tbh I'm not 100% sure why this setup dusted him as opposed to my previous attempts which mostly had ended with me bailing out or dying. The other attempts were also somewhat similar looking murder beams, sometimes with damage field. This one has +bounces and the weaker homing from the perk instead of the modifier so maybe that did something since I lured him into a tight space instead of fighting him in the chasm. Alternatively, might just be that the numbers on this one are ridiculous.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:45
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I found the portal-cube thing in the coal mines while I already had a permanent laser digging wand. Decided to see where it's located in the world, digging straight up. I didn't see exactly where I ended up, but I got one-shot by an undead alchemist who was waiting right above the exit I made.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:54
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the orb/bridge boss can be one-shot, the problem is (like was mentioned) it gets invuln every time it takes damage and it has really high resistance to most damage. it's one of the places spells to power shines; either fart out a ton of long-living projectiles and then cast a projectile with StP, or utilize a setup that constantly casts StP and thus charges itself until you stop firing
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Dec 2, 2020 20:07
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Drone_Fragger posted:I did it, I beat the regular ending by completing the work. i had something almost like this in my last run, stacked damage amplifiers, homing, +crit and bouncy on a shotgun blast, it would just fire, kill anything in its path, then bounce and slow down so it could home in on anything nearby i just died because i fired an explosive weapon into a single floating pixel of terrain. honestly i kind of wish the game would just auto-delete any static terrain under a certain size, in the later levels things get so hectic that theres usually not much of the level left when im done and it sucks when you die because you fired something into something you couldnt even see, like anything under a 3x3 pixel block or something should just crumble on its own
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Dec 2, 2020 22:42
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Not seeing the three pixels of poly sitting underneath a bunch of slime and dying to your own homing shot. Gotta be the worst feeling in this game
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Dec 2, 2020 23:02
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 I have made a chainsaw hose. Somewhere around 180k dps. Double trigger spark bolt into heavy shot, 2x crit+, crit dmg plus, empowered shot. triggering 6x chainsaws.  Ofc, it doubles as a levitation device. Watch me die from poly in 3 secs.
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Dec 2, 2020 23:19
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Zamujasa posted:the orb/bridge boss can be one-shot, the problem is (like was mentioned) it gets invuln every time it takes damage and it has really high resistance to most damage. Out of curiosity, why was I able to do so much damage to him then? I can see his shield being triggered constantly. Vanilla game aside from using the training dummy to see how much damage things do. No spells to power there but 2x triplicate bolt, chainsaw/drill to speed it up, bunch of crits and mana, 2x heavy shots and a few additional damage+. Fire arc/trail along with crits on burning and bounce to keep them around. That version of the weapon did 20-30k dps on the dummy I think. After popping into the west parallel world, I got it up to 200k dps. After point blanking myself with a touch of gold I got it down to 0 dps.
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Dec 2, 2020 23:39
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dyzzy posted:Not seeing the three pixels of poly sitting underneath a bunch of slime and dying to your own homing shot. Gotta be the worst feeling in this game im all for punishing brutal difficulty in roguelikes but it should always be preventable in some way. i think poly is kind of on the edge because you should always assume that it might be there, just like you should assume that there might be terrain even if you cant see it, but making it either a bit more visible or making it disappear when it's too small to be properly visible would be an improvement to the game if you ask me like dying to your own lightning has happened very often to me but doesnt annoy me because its always just my own stupidity, it's something where i can basically think "if i fire this i might die" and learn to play with that in mind. some things though arent really like that and can just kill you more or less randomly
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Dec 2, 2020 23:45
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animatorZed posted:Out of curiosity, why was I able to do so much damage to him then? I can see his shield being triggered constantly. From what I've observed it isn't completely immune with the shield up (making it eat its own purple missile on the terrain, you can see that the first hit does damage and then the subsequent explosions tick for less) but maybe the behavior is different for projectile hits vs. explosions vs. area tick damage.
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Dec 2, 2020 23:55
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I think the Damage Field doesn't actually register for the boss as it taking damage for the purposes of realizing to put on the shield. Alternatively the way the Damage Field deals damage goes a different pathway than normal damage and thus skips the whole resistance thing the boss has going on. It's technically a bug but I don't really mind.
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Dec 3, 2020 00:28
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Supradog posted:
Completely unrelated to that neato wand, but what mod adds the levitation float bar by your noiter?
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Dec 3, 2020 00:56
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Hempuli posted:I think the Damage Field doesn't actually register for the boss as it taking damage for the purposes of realizing to put on the shield. Alternatively the way the Damage Field deals damage goes a different pathway than normal damage and thus skips the whole resistance thing the boss has going on. It's technically a bug but I don't really mind. yeah, the boss code explicitly sets itself to invuln the instant it takes any damage, so damage field bypassing this sounds about right code:i've thought about doing it now but it seems a little late for that
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Dec 3, 2020 01:01
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CodfishCartographer posted:Completely unrelated to that neato wand, but what mod adds the levitation float bar by your noiter? Not near my pc ATM, but it was from the steam workshop, was named something real obvious, like hover bar or similar.
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Dec 3, 2020 01:13
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I don't understand the voodoo being done to make those ridiculously high speed death hose wands. Something about chainsaws?
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Dec 3, 2020 01:14
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Zamujasa posted:i've thought about doing it now but it seems a little late for that I've been told that there's some mysterious way to set your Steam games to earlier builds; I haven't checked how that works or really verified it but I've seen it mentioned multiple times in relation to other games.
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Dec 3, 2020 01:17
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Blueshirt posted:I don't understand the voodoo being done to make those ridiculously high speed death hose wands. Something about chainsaws? Mostly it's stuff that brings the cast/recharge delay of the wand close to zero. Chainsaws, digging bolts, and the transmute oil/water/cement spells are good for this, and you can also make use of the fact that a multicast or spell mod will wrap around the list of spells if it reaches the end and doesn't get one.
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Dec 3, 2020 01:18
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Blueshirt posted:I don't understand the voodoo being done to make those ridiculously high speed death hose wands. Something about chainsaws? The goal is to get below 0 recharge time on your wand. Each chainsaw adds -0.17 recharge time, so if your wand has ~0.30 recharge time, two chainsaws gets it below that. At that point, your wand fires every frame - lowering it further causes it to fire multiple times per frame. So Triple Cast > Spell > Chainsaw > Chainsaw will work if your wand has a large cast time between spells. You can often get a "free" chainsaw if you have a multi-cast spell, due to spell wrapping. Chainsaw > Double Cast > Spell will cast chainsaw, then whatever the spell is + chainsaw.
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Dec 3, 2020 01:19
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Blueshirt posted:I don't understand the voodoo being done to make those ridiculously high speed death hose wands. Something about chainsaws? the short version is that chainsaws basically reduce the cast time to the next spell to zero: code:so what you do is you have a X with trigger spell, followed by whatever death modifiers you want, then a multicast (if desired), enough spells to fill the multicast, and then a chainsaw. or you put the chainsaw at the beginning and have enough multicasts left over such that the wand 'wraps' to the first spell again when trying to fill the trigger it's a little complicated but the display in the holy mountain can help explain it. the basic brrrrrrrr wand is something like - chainsaw / luminous drill - speed up / homing / other "payload delivery" modifiers - spark bolt with trigger - any decrease-reload-times you have - any increase manas you have - as many modifiers as you can fit, especially heavy shot, damage plus, horizontal path, etc -- anything that adds damage - a multicast (double spell, triple spell, etc) - as many projectiles as your multicasts and mana reserves support. triplicate bolt is great here because it's 3 projectiles instead of one for the price of one spell if you play around with this kind of setup you can probably make your own brrrrrrt wand
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Dec 3, 2020 01:23
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Blueshirt posted:I don't understand the voodoo being done to make those ridiculously high speed death hose wands. Something about chainsaws? Let's say you have a wand with a cast delay of .2s and a recharge time of .5s. If you put 4x spark bolts on it, you'd get 4 spark bolts per second (since the Spark Bolt spell adds .05s of cast delay), then a delay of .5s, then 4 spark bolts in a second, etc. (net fire rate 2.66 bolts per second). Let's say you put this on the wand: Doublecast -> Luminous Drill -> Spark Bolt Luminous Drill decreases cast time by .58s and recharge time by .17s, so your cast delay becomes negative, and your recharge time is .33s. This would get you 3 spark bolts per second -- you only cast one spell, then immediately have to pay the recharge time. Now let's say it's this: Quadruple cast -> Luminous Drill -> Chainsaw -> Chainsaw -> Spark Bolt Chainsaw decreases recharge time by .17s, just like Luminous Drill, but it doesn't cost any mana. This brings your cast delay and your recharge time down to negative numbers, so you'll fire spark bolts (and drills and chainsaws) once per frame, until you run out of mana. The "Increase Mana" spell is critical for keeping bullet hose wands running, because it adds mana directly to the wand when cast, at a cost of increasing cast delay.
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Dec 3, 2020 01:27
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My last successful run finished with this as my Annihilate Everything Wand: Freeze charge -> quadcast -> lightsaber -> reduce mana -> spark bolt w/trigger -> reduce mana -> reduce mana -> heavy shot -> damage plus -> crit plus -> crit plus -> electric arc -> hexagon cast -> electric explosion -> spiral shot -> trip bolt -> trip bolt. And the wand had always cast: reduce recharge time. Note that if you don't have both Electricity and Explosion Immunity then this is an Annihilate Yourself Wand. But boy howdy did it instadestroy everything that moves. The big breakthrough was putting the lightsaber before the spark bolt w/trigger instead of after it, for some reason that must have to do with wraparounds.
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Dec 3, 2020 01:32
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Eric the Mauve posted:My last successful run finished with this as my Annihilate Everything Wand: Ooh I'll try this. I had a real quick shot/charge with 3x *lightsaber and a double w modifier. It had crazy range and instant killed almost anything
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Dec 3, 2020 01:44
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Putting heavy shot in between a spell+trigger and a multicast really fucks up anything unfortunate enough to be struck by it, in my experience.
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Dec 3, 2020 01:53
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got this recently and proving the thread title 100% correct nearly every time I play and it's been a blast so far. since the game kinda throws you right into the deep end, is there any good beginner tips/guide to look for? or good streamers? i'm currently unsure how much i'm supposed to explore each floor, or what possible rewards there are. like, is there always a fixed number of chests or wands spawned in the mines i should find or is it always random? i try to comb through as much as i can before low health forces me to leave, but i dunno if that's a waste of time and the real good stuff is on later levels etc.
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Dec 3, 2020 02:08
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Not sure if this should be in spoiler tags since it's so far outside the bounds of a normal run but: https://i.imgur.com/EYM0G1V.mp4 I think I broke it.
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Dec 3, 2020 02:09
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PopZeus posted:got this recently and proving the thread title 100% correct nearly every time I play and it's been a blast so far. You're on the right track, exploring until you're too low on health to be comfortable continuing is a good rule of thumb. There's a lot of good wandbuilding chat on this page already, but here's some posts I made about evaluating wands you find out in the wild, how to build a solid wand, and other miscellaneous info CodfishCartographer posted:I can't hope to top Too Much Abstraction's great post, so lemme just add some extra tips I've found useful: quote:The game IS very luck-based, however the more you play the more you’ll learn how best to tackle challenges.
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Dec 3, 2020 02:20
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quick wrapping tutorial: assume you have a wand with a reload time of 0.5 seconds, and a chainsaw has a reload time modifier of -0.25. these aren't the exact numbers, but w/e  double spell chainsaw firebomb when you cast this wand, it'll cast double spell, which will cast two more spells, chainsaw and firebomb. the single chainsaw will reduce the reload time by 0.25, so your wand now has a 0.25 reload delay. ( )but, you could rearrange it like this: now it will cast chainsaw, reducing the delay, and then double spell, which casts two more spells, firebomb, and, uh , (  )...there's no more spells for it to cast! uh oh. what the game does at this point is wrap. it will go back to the start of the wand and pull the first spell it sees: , ( )in a single "cycle", the wand has now cast chainsaw twice -- once from the first cast, and then again from wrapping around the second. this makes the reload time 0, and so (barring cast delay) the wand will fire again as soon as it can. you can get really creative and stupid with this, and it's what a lot of super rapid fire wands rely on
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Dec 3, 2020 02:34
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PopZeus posted:since the game kinda throws you right into the deep end, is there any good beginner tips/guide to look for? or good streamers? Mcqueeb is pretty cool and good.
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Dec 3, 2020 02:51
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Zamujasa posted:quick wrapping tutorial: If you replace the firebomb with a sparkbolt with trigger then both the double cast and trigger effect have to wrap, and they both find their own copies of the chainsaw, so now you're getting 3 chainsaws firing off from every 2 button-press cycle. Additionally, for the most part chainsaw just nullifies the cast delay of any spells cast on the same frame as it.
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Dec 3, 2020 03:12
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A wand that wraps like that still starts from the leftmost spell each time you click, right? It's just that each click might entail multiple cycles, even if the final cycle doesn't necessarily end at the end of the wand?
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Dec 3, 2020 03:21
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Ferrinus posted:A wand that wraps like that still starts from the leftmost spell each time you click, right? It's just that each click might entail multiple cycles, even if the final cycle doesn't necessarily end at the end of the wand? Not quite, otherwise you could put a Double Scatter Spell+Digging Bolt on a wand and a single click would cast an infinite number of spells. One of the limitations seems to be that any given instance of a spell can't be cast twice in the same physics-simulation-frame (except for some of the spells that duplicate other spells)
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Dec 3, 2020 03:35
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In that example, if you had a triple cast, would it wrap back around to the triple cast again and just cast everything in one frame until it ran out of mana or?
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Dec 3, 2020 03:38
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I'm pretty sure with Always Cast, if you get the wand down to 0 mana use and 0 delay/recharge (with Reduce Mana Cost, Reduce Recharge, and lightsabers/chainsaws) it will in fact cast its Always Cast spell once per frame infinitely until you let go of the mouse button, die, or the game crashes. I think somewhere back in this thread someone posted a gif of casting a million bombcarts with such a wand and dying in a glorious Big Bang.
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Dec 3, 2020 03:55
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the deeper levels of wrapping i don't quite know enough about (and can't infer from the code enough about) to really talk beyond it doesn't work like that, and wrapping seems to stop after the first actual spell. if you're interested in messing with the concept i super strongly suggest getting a mod to give you goki's things also got a huge upgrade as a mod and i recommend it, the newest version for beta is great resistentialism posted:If you replace the firebomb with a sparkbolt with trigger then both the double cast and trigger effect have to wrap, and they both find their own copies of the chainsaw, so now you're getting 3 chainsaws firing off from every 2 button-press cycle. yeah, i was just trying to explain the absolute basics, which is already complicated enough. you can get some absolutely silly poo poo if you dive in deep enough
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Dec 3, 2020 03:56
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I just got unlimited spells as my last perk. I'm gonna die now, huh?
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Dec 3, 2020 05:41
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Yes, because unlimited acid trail bombs and tagging enemies with "you are now a locus of fireballs" are hard to resist.
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Dec 3, 2020 05:48
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