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Mors Rattus posted:There aren’t any Tzimisce in nWoD, which I kinda assume this is about what with the Carthians stuff. There are you want there to be. I've got rules I wrote up for nWoD vicissitude. Well, half-written up rules really. I'm terrible about actually getting around to finishing stuff once I get it to the point I can mentally fill in the rest.
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Dec 3, 2020 13:44
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Tulip posted:What We Do In The Shadows is the best representation of a WOD campaign I've seen, and Guillermo is an all-time great character. In the movie, the "Unholy Masquerade" was held in a local hall/lawn bowling club. That was where 90% of Vampire LARPs in NZ were played in the 90's, because they were cheap and easy to book.
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Dec 3, 2020 17:11
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Rubix Squid posted:There are you want there to be. I've got rules I wrote up for nWoD vicissitude. Well, half-written up rules really. I'm terrible about actually getting around to finishing stuff once I get it to the point I can mentally fill in the rest.
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Dec 3, 2020 18:49
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Mors Rattus posted:There aren’t any Tzimisce in nWoD, which I kinda assume this is about what with the Carthians stuff. There technically are. The Chimera Strain/virus/whatever it's called from one of the later VTR books comes off as literally vicissitude as a vampiric virus. It also has some neat little references to the whole "Actually Tzimisce is a virus" thing that VtM toyed with and then mostly dropped due to backlash to how it was presented in the Black Hand book way back when. I say this because it makes the vampire become more inhuman in thought, body, and capabilities the more it spreads in their body. Notably I say technically because due to it being a spreadable virus it's also technically the answer to the question "What would happen if we lobotomized Tzimisce so he can't cause trouble and then crossed vicissitude with John Carpenter's The Thing?". Which i'm not sure anyone ever asked. But hey we got an answer now!  Lord Cyrahzax posted:Any advice on how to run a Requiem game with a party of Ghouls? I don't have too much experience with the system, but I really appreciate the Requiem setting and I'd like to give it go. I feel like this is going to end in them all sitting down together after they get next to no credit for whatever awful crap the NPC vampires put them through and realizing "Hey, you know, they're awfully anti-social and are off on their own most of the time. What if we just...Uh, ganged up on them took what we wanted?". Bonus points if they're Carthian ghouls to a bunch of hypocrites and proceed to take the phrase "Seize the means of production." in a very ironic direction. Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Dec 3, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2020 23:06
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Archonex posted:I feel like this is going to end in them all sitting down together after they get next to no credit for whatever awful crap the NPC vampires put them through and realizing "Hey, you know, they're awfully anti-social and are off on their own most of the time. What if we just...Uh, ganged up on them took what we wanted?". My idea for it is them getting stuck in the politics of Vampire Vegas (no idea if there's lore for that), with Invictus as mobsters and the Carthians being under a Howard Hughes type, balanced under a Circle of the Crone compromise prince that represents the local entertainment industry. Lancea is dead in the water, but what few there are definitely hate all the sinful humans of Vegas. I do expect that they'll very much get tired of all these factions' poo poo though
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Dec 4, 2020 00:19
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:In the movie, the "Unholy Masquerade" was held in a local hall/lawn bowling club. For the same reason, it's where my town's regular gay nightclub is. Renting out the proletariat lawn bowls club for a night a month is much cheaper than buying a place, and none of us have much Big Money money that doesn't go to art supplies or feeding our broke artist friends after they spend all their money on art supplies since the combination of hippies, rampant untreated mental illness, poverty, and a big queer community is a lot of queer artists with problems remembering they need to eat as well as buy oil paints.
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Dec 4, 2020 02:59
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Loomer posted:a lot of queer artists with problems remembering they need to eat as well as buy oil paints.
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Dec 4, 2020 03:08
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:In the movie, the "Unholy Masquerade" was held in a local hall/lawn bowling club. Fun fact: if you mention Vampire LARP to any Wellington larpers of a certain age, they'll all immediately get a thousand-yard stare and refuse to talk about it.
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Dec 4, 2020 04:08
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I'm starting my cover-to-cover of Oblivion 20th, and I've gotta say on top of the 60-page comic before the TOC being what turns me into a supervillain, a ton of the introductory material is pretty boring. It's a remarkably dry list of what Charon, the main character of the entire Underworld, has been up to. I faintly remember 2nd edition, which I read over 20 years ago so who knows if this is even true, while not very helpful in conveying the day-to-day of a newbie ghost, at least didn't spend 20 pages sucking an NPC's dick and then act surprised that you the reader are still here. So, plus-side: the ground-level wraith experience is laid out pretty plainly once 20th is (mostly) done telling you why Charon matters more than everyone else in the game you're presumably wanting to play. I guess if that's how the supplements back then shook out, fair enough, but there are ways to write around it that aren't so insufferable.
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Dec 4, 2020 05:42
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Wraith's material did have a fairly big Charon focus, I'm afraid, but there's a tonal difference in Wr20. The actual substantial content is largely the same but the ordering is different - 2E leads with the factions and groups then gives us the Charonic history after they've been introduced, which gives you first an 'oh cool' and then a sense of how they all fit together in the history of the world, which lets you have an idea of who you might want to play and how that should colour what you read of Charon's deeds before you see them. Wr20, for some reason, places the first substantive information on renegades and heretics under the Necropoli heading. Pages 65-7 covers them both, while 2E gives us a similar amount of coverage, but under a 'Society of the Dead/Factions' header on 47. 2E establishes them as their own vital forces in the underworld, while 20th subtly subordinates them to Stygia by their placement under the Necropoli subheading of Stygia. Worse, Wr20 actively says that the renegades are mostly spent in their little section while 2E doesn't, which is already casting a particular slant on the setting in a way that further subordinates the non-hierarchy game to the hierarchy game. We then leap into write-ups of the legions that give them each individually more space than the renegades or heretics, furthering that slant. So it's not just a Charon thing - it's a whole tonal difference in layout, length, word choice, and structure just in the introductory chapters.
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Dec 4, 2020 09:09
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That Old Tree posted:I'm starting my cover-to-cover of Oblivion 20th, and I've gotta say on top of the 60-page comic before the TOC being what turns me into a supervillain, a ton of the introductory material is pretty boring. It's a remarkably dry list of what Charon, the main character of the entire Underworld, has been up to. The giant sixty page comic, at least, is a full reprint of an old 1e book that was just that stuff, I think intended as an art/narrative/mood piece. Like they didn't commission sixty pages of weird moody art to start Wraith20 with, they remembered the old book and went "That was cool when it was new, it'd be cool to put it here." I think it is arguably still a bad decision but at least it is not as much of an inexplicable one. Stephenls fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Dec 4, 2020 |
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Dec 4, 2020 10:37
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Stephenls posted:The giant sixty page comic, at least, is a full reprint of an old 1e book that was just that stuff, I think intended as an art/narrative/mood piece. Like they didn't commission sixty pages of weird moody art to start Wraith20 with, they remembered the old book and went "That was cool when it was new, it'd be cool to put it here." Oh yeah I'm well aware. I just think it was a pretty bad idea.
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Dec 4, 2020 11:23
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That Old Tree posted:Oh yeah I'm well aware. I just think it was a pretty bad idea. I love Wraith 20 a ton, but a sigh and roll my eyes everytime I open the book. All we need now is KotE20 with all that Manga stuff front loaded.
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Dec 4, 2020 12:51
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I love Wraith 20 a ton, but a sigh and roll my eyes everytime I open the book. All we need now is KotE20 with all that Manga stuff front loaded. Okay, but i fthey do that they have to get Melissa Uran back for it.
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Dec 4, 2020 15:25
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I love Wraith 20 a ton, but a sigh and roll my eyes everytime I open the book. All we need now is KotE20 with all that Manga stuff front loaded. KOTE20 first page: YIIIIKEEESS arooni, the 90's were racist huh?
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Dec 4, 2020 15:49
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That Old Tree posted:I'm starting my cover-to-cover of Oblivion 20th, and I've gotta say on top of the 60-page comic before the TOC being what turns me into a supervillain, a ton of the introductory material is pretty boring. It's a remarkably dry list of what Charon, the main character of the entire Underworld, has been up to. Compare that with the DAV20 book, whose TOC is just over 4 pages and delineates just about every thing you would need to look up quickly. I'm still not a huge fan of the layout, since it does poo poo like putting the basic mechanics way at the back instead of in chapter 1-2 where they belong and putting merits & flaws at the rear end end of the book between GM advice and Yet More Fluff, but whatever. I can read the TOC and know where they are at least, so that's a step in the right direction. All in all it feels like a lot of these _20 books are written and designed for people who want to read a book about a game they played 20 years ago, rather than for people who want to play that game. Yawgmoth fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Dec 4, 2020 |
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Dec 4, 2020 17:01
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I love Wraith 20 a ton, but a sigh and roll my eyes everytime I open the book. All we need now is KotE20 with all that Manga stuff front loaded. Bad Mel Uran art of a Kuei-Jin summoning demons to rape his wife to death on their wedding day is the one thing that's been missing from my life!
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Dec 4, 2020 18:33
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That Old Tree posted:I'm starting my cover-to-cover of Oblivion 20th, and I've gotta say on top of the 60-page comic before the TOC being what turns me into a supervillain, a ton of the introductory material is pretty boring. It's a remarkably dry list of what Charon, the main character of the entire Underworld, has been up to. "When Charon isn't on the screen, the other wraiths should be asking 'OH GOD WHAT IS HE UP TO NOW!? I DON'T WANT TO BE SOULFORGED!'"
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Dec 4, 2020 20:27
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Does anyone happen to have a screenshot of that Oblivion vs The Wyrm text from one of the Wraith books, or even the name of the book it appears in?
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Dec 4, 2020 21:04
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LatwPIAT posted:Bad Mel Uran art of a Kuei-Jin summoning demons to rape his wife to death on their wedding day is the one thing that's been missing from my life! It was truely a snapshot of the times!
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Dec 4, 2020 23:43
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Lord_Hambrose posted:It was truely a snapshot of the times! ...please don't tell me that actually happened.
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Dec 5, 2020 01:02
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Kavak posted:...please don't tell me that actually happened.
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Dec 5, 2020 01:13
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Yawgmoth posted:what does your heart tell you You know if Ericsson went on record as saying the Kuei-Jin were out of the setting, we could have let him have a little Nazism as a treat.
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Dec 5, 2020 01:57
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Kindred of the East corebook posted:Rare is the Resplendent Crane who has not smiled at least once to the song of a boiled child.
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Dec 5, 2020 01:59
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Kavak posted:You know if Ericsson went on record as saying the Kuei-Jin were out of the setting, we could have let him have a little Nazism as a treat.  I think you would probably need to rebuild the kuei-jin from the ground up to get all this poo poo in something that is both "fun to play" and "not culturally insulting," and in general the 20th editions seem to be willing to clean up and hose off the chassis but not make fundamental changes on that scale.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:01
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Nessus posted:I think you would probably need to rebuild the kuei-jin from the ground up to get all this poo poo in something that is both "fun to play" and "not culturally insulting," and in general the 20th editions seem to be willing to clean up and hose off the chassis but not make fundamental changes on that scale. Yeah the game is the bad, non-tasty kind of Asian fusion. It'd be easier to write Masquerade-style clans for Asia.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:05
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Nessus posted:
That is precisely why OPP never bothered. It would be a pretty big undertaking far beyond just updating some rules and why bother for so little reward?
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Dec 5, 2020 02:50
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Kavak posted:...please don't tell me that actually happened. Dharmabook: Devil-Tigers is a critically acclaimed book for KotE. It's a book people would recommend as the guide on how to play evil characters right. It's a book about how the Devil-Tigers aren't just pointlessly cruel murder-torture-rape vehicles, but actually a thematic component of the fivefold KotE mythology. It's a book for teaching you how to best play a Devil-Tiger in your roleplaying game with friends. It's a book that opens with an eight-page comic describing how the signature Devil-Tiger character seduced a woman for the sole purpose of strapping her down and having her tortured and raped by two demons for an entire evening so he could kill her and trap her soul in a gem for all eternity to perfectly capture the moment of her betrayal over and over again. He then realises this was a stupid idea, but keeps the gem around to remind him of his failure. And, hey, he has this neat gem of someone having their heart broken over and over again for all eternity. These are the kinds of stories you're supposed to play with the Devil-Tigers, the kind of stories that make them more than just cartoonishly evil: the stories where you have demons rape and torture a woman just because you wanted her to suffer the most intimate betrayal. Illustrated with all the skill of that one friend you had who was very serious about their collection of How To Draw Anime books. Buy it now for $20! (This is somewhat unfair to Early Mel Uran: she has a fairly good understanding of layout and panel composition, she just can't draw people.)
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Dec 5, 2020 02:59
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LatwPIAT posted:These are the kinds of stories you're supposed to play with the Devil-Tigers, the kind of stories that make them more than just cartoonishly evil: the stories where you have demons rape and torture a woman just because you wanted her to suffer the most intimate betrayal. "...and then Dante fired Ebony and Ivory into his head until the triggers went click. The end."
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Dec 5, 2020 03:06
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LatwPIAT posted:These are the kinds of stories you're supposed to play with the Devil-Tigers, the kind of stories that make them more than just cartoonishly evil: the stories where you have demons rape and torture a woman just because you wanted her to suffer the most intimate betrayal. I can't tell whether you're ironically indicting the book or trying to express what value it has and failing.
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Dec 5, 2020 03:11
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I Am Just a Box posted:I can't tell whether you're ironically indicting the book or trying to express what value it has and failing. It's an indictment. Next, let me tell you about Dharmabook: Trashing Dragons and the langsuir of the Passion Bloodflower sect... Female-supremacist women and transvestites who seduce and mind-control men to live as wives, courtesans, and mistresses and work their lovers to death to enrich themselves while drinking their blood. As a transwoman, I'm thrilled! Kindred of the East, everyone!
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Dec 5, 2020 03:33
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I'm getting the sense that if the Kuei-Jin line remained dead that nothing of value would be lost.
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Dec 5, 2020 03:39
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LatwPIAT posted:Kindred of the East, everyone!
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Dec 5, 2020 03:41
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LatwPIAT posted:It's an indictment. Just checking, because as you say, people heap praises on the Devil-Tiger book all over the place and I've never been able to wrap my head around what could possibly be in that book that would actually be good. What a gameline. And like a shaggy dog story, the punchline is that it's adding so many more words mostly just to reach the conclusion of "the Risen from Wraith, but worse."
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Dec 5, 2020 04:14
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Wait are the Risen also rapists?
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Dec 5, 2020 04:43
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Kavak posted:Wait are the Risen also rapists? Nah, just all The Crow and mechanically superior to most other WoD critters.
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Dec 5, 2020 04:52
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Omnicrom posted:I'm getting the sense that if the Kuei-Jin line remained dead that nothing of value would be lost. Kindred of the what now? Kuei-what? I'm sorry we have no idea what your talking about. *flaming pile of books in the background* No idea. To be serious for a moment, I own a beat up copy of KOTE and I've cracked it open once to see how bad the binding was (it's rough). Didn't bother reading it and just stuck it on the shelf. It was $3 and it kicked and order over into free shipping so that's a dumb thing I own.
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Dec 5, 2020 05:48
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Kavak posted:Wait are the Risen also rapists? I just mean in terms of "ghosts who crawled back from hell with unfinished business to animate their own dead bodies," the core conceit of Kindred of the East which is a cool enough idea that had already been done in Wraith without the othered Orientalism and boiled babies.
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Dec 5, 2020 05:50
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V5 companion release on the 16th yall!!!!    (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 5, 2020 09:56
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This is my poo poo yxll!!! 
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Dec 5, 2020 18:44
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