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Ever since The Boys I've seen Black Dow as Karl Urban. Butcher and Dow are basically the same character, raging rear end in a top hat with a penchant for excessive violence and quips.  Add some dirt and scars and there you go, Black Dow. Look no loving further.
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Nov 26, 2020 00:39
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Billy butcher is waaaaay more charismatic than black Dow. Also taller.
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Nov 26, 2020 01:08
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All these characters are much uglier in my mind. Someone like Jerome Flynn, maybe, for Black Dow. I like Karl Urban though, he could still work
Alikchi fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 02:35
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Jerome Flynn would make an excellent Northman. If you've seen Fargo s4 or Gamorra, Salvatore Esposito does an excellent job of seeming like he's constantly on the edge of exploding into violence. It's mostly his eyes and it's pretty scary tbh. The only problem is he doesn't look very Northern. Maybe he could be Shenkt.
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Nov 26, 2020 23:36
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Rereading The Blade Itself, we should have clued in on Bayaz being a villain when he ranted about the glories of colonialism outside the House of the Maker. Referring to the Midderland native population as: "Painted-faced savages, barely different to the beasts."
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Dec 3, 2020 04:03
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To be fair, that's the attitude of most POV characters in any fantasy novel about monarchies.
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Dec 3, 2020 15:14
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Scissorfighter posted:Rereading The Blade Itself, we should have clued in on Bayaz being a villain when he ranted about the glories of colonialism outside the House of the Maker. Referring to the Midderland native population as: "Painted-faced savages, barely different to the beasts." I know most fantasy novels are populated with essentially modern day people carrying out a haphazard medieval cosplay, but still...it would imo have been wierder for him to have been woke on the subject of colonialism than not
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Dec 3, 2020 17:24
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Crespolini posted:I know most fantasy novels are populated with essentially modern day people carrying out a haphazard medieval cosplay, but still...it would imo have been wierder for him to have been woke on the subject of colonialism than not I agree for most characters, but Bayaz was presenting himself as an ancient wise demigod so I'd argue that it's a crack that shows in his façade (in retrospect.) Like, could you imagine Gandalf saying something like that?
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Dec 3, 2020 17:54
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Probably not, but then lotr has a very different tone overall than the first law series
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Dec 3, 2020 18:07
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Harold Fjord posted:I don't remember him being especially tall, I got the idea that most people find him kind of unassuming for a North Man until they see him in action. But it's been a while since I've read. In my brain he always kind of looks like Lobo He's referred to as being large on a few occasions, but especially when he first comes to Adua - I can't remember which PoV it is, but he's described as a six and a half feet tall scarred and intimidating child (I didn't take the six and a half feet tall seriously, but I think we can say he's meant to be 6'2+). Edit: PopetasticPerson posted:Ever since The Boys I've seen Black Dow as Karl Urban. Butcher and Dow are basically the same character, raging rear end in a top hat with a penchant for excessive violence and quips. Yeah, have him grow out his hair a bit and he's pretty much exactly what I imagined Black Dow as.
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Dec 5, 2020 07:47
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Yeah, Logen is consistently described as a large man in every book. It's just that those are not in short supply among Northerner warriors and there are plenty of dudes taller and thicker than him. However, it has been noted in several places that Logen is actually even stronger than his size would suggest. In Red Country his step-daughter notes that while old Lamb may be a weak-willed coward, he never seems to tire and has inexhaustible amounts of stamina and strength, and when they are travelling with the caravan both the medic and the cattle-rancher note that he is probably the strongest man they have ever met, even though he is older than other men of the caravan. Logen does usually try to present himself as unassuming though, to various degrees of success, which Crummock I-Phail calls him out on. Logen did manage to lay low as Lamb for a long while, but even then a random northern prospector who bumps into him in the beginning almost susses him out. In the trilogy Jezal initially underestimates him, but Jezal was a moron, Glokta realized right away that Logen is not just strong but fast as hell when he needs to be, and Ferro thought to herself she could almost feel the brutal strength radiating off him.
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Dec 5, 2020 15:05
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How much could Logen benchpress
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Dec 7, 2020 23:47
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Brendan Rodgers posted:How much could Logen benchpress bout tree fiddy the bloody nine, though? probably up around your mom
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Dec 8, 2020 01:40
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TBH, I'm surprised Savine let the whole incest thing stop her. Also, I'm getting the feeling old sticks is behind this weaver business. Just from the things they've said over the past two books
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Dec 10, 2020 20:52
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I couldn't guess the extent of his involvement but yeah there's no way he's actually living a quiet life in the countryside, he took the opportunity to vamoose suspiciously quickly
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Dec 10, 2020 21:00
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i think there's zero chance glokta isn't behind the breakers and the burners someone would have to know bayaz's business and methods very well to avoid meeting a quick end at yoru sulfur's hands
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Dec 11, 2020 02:28
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His Divine Shadow posted:I also imagined the original bunch of Logens follower all as 20 years older than they where with a lot of grey, except shivers, so I had to revise that downwards after reading further books and seeing they couldn't be that old yet. Same here. I think it's due to their attitudes, Northerners just act older. If you're a Named.Man then it seems like world-weary folk-philosophizing and nodding sagely are a cultural expectation It's pretty cool and unique.
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Dec 14, 2020 08:29
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I picture Savine as looking like Ivanka Trump.
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Dec 17, 2020 18:46
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sounds like a personal issue
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Dec 17, 2020 21:33
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I think I pictured her as the aristocrat party member from dragon age 3, even though she's not black. Probably because I pictured her mom as esmeralda I guess lol
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Dec 18, 2020 02:24
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I pictured her as Morena Baccarin.
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Dec 21, 2020 07:28
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I finished a re-read of The Trouble With Peace, still great. Orso is one of the most heroic characters Abercrombie has ever written, I think, going on a similar arc to Jezal but without all the prodding from Bayaz it took Jezal to improve. He just seems to have innate competence that comes through when hes faced with a trial, as well as the ease in social situations. Whereas Jezal was always trying to make his social situations into contests, Orso just kind of coasts. Anyway, let's see what other books are recommended for fans of this series...  Hmm, Leo wouldn't like that. Ccs fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 21:57
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Bayaz, jumping off his statue on the king'sway, flipping in midair, and elbow-dropping on Orso's exposed coccyx going "Yeeeaaaahhh!!!"
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Jan 9, 2021 04:12
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Scissorfighter posted:I agree for most characters, but Bayaz was presenting himself as an ancient wise demigod so I'd argue that it's a crack that shows in his façade (in retrospect.) Like, could you imagine Gandalf saying something like that? He kinda did, though. Pretty much every person in LOTR, including Gandalf, considers orcs a bunch of savages bent on destroying everything that's good and beautiful. It doesn't seem weird, because in-universe this is absolutely true. Orcs and goblins have no culture to speak of, their civilization is a caricature of those formed by good races and they were created by the counterpart of Satan. Ccs posted:I finished a re-read of The Trouble With Peace, still great. Orso is one of the most heroic characters Abercrombie has ever written, I think, going on a similar arc to Jezal but without all the prodding from Bayaz it took Jezal to improve. It was mostly prodding for Logen and necessity to improve caused by his situation. Bayaz talked a lot how Jezal should improve as a person, but immediately got pissy and punished him when he did. He also did his best to put him in situations where he wouldn't improve, like solving the Tanner rebellion by himself and letting his protégé claim the credit. The First of the Magi is the typical narcissistic person that needs other people to be worse than him to boost his ego and gets insecure when they really improve. Gantolandon fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 12:03
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Ccs posted:I finished a re-read of The Trouble With Peace, still great. Orso is one of the most heroic characters Abercrombie has ever written, I think, going on a similar arc to Jezal but without all the prodding from Bayaz it took Jezal to improve. He just seems to have innate competence that comes through when hes faced with a trial, as well as the ease in social situations. Whereas Jezal was always trying to make his social situations into contests, Orso just kind of coasts. Leo would fail to recognise Jojo as even remotely gay looking. Just strapping lads having adventures. He'd really enjoy it.
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Mar 3, 2021 04:43
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Question about the Trilogy: how nihilistic and grimdark does it get? I'm about 100 pages into the First Law, and have liked it so far, but I hear people repeatedly say the series gets incredibly depressing, which I'm not necessarily looking for right now. For context, I can deal with something like Malazan fine, so it's not that I can't deal with anything dark, but certain things (graphic descriptions of sexual assault, for example) would be too much for me. I'm also not looking for some Bakker-esque "Nothing matters, life is misery, oblivion is a blessing" type thing in particular.
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Mar 5, 2021 17:20
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Question about the Trilogy: how nihilistic and grimdark does it get? I'm about 100 pages into the First Law, and have liked it so far, but I hear people repeatedly say the series gets incredibly depressing, which I'm not necessarily looking for right now. For context, I can deal with something like Malazan fine, so it's not that I can't deal with anything dark, but certain things (graphic descriptions of sexual assault, for example) would be too much for me. I'm also not looking for some Bakker-esque "Nothing matters, life is misery, oblivion is a blessing" type thing in particular. Off the top of my head I don't think Abercrombie goes to the sexual assault well once. It's depressing in that characters make poor choices that end poorly for them and sometimes get hosed by events completely outside their control but it's not Bakker style overwrought nihilism either, very very occasionally someone even makes a positive life choice and becomes a better person from it as a result! If you like it so far I'd say stick with it, Abercrombie is one of the best writers working in the genre today imo No Dignity fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 17:31
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Yea there’s zero sexual assault or anything like that in any of his books. The depressing stuff people talk about is just that all the main characters don’t all get story book happy endings like in a typical story.
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Mar 5, 2021 17:38
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Other than the fact that one of the POV characters was to be a sex slave until she mutilated herself
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Mar 5, 2021 17:40
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Or the character that constantly talks about how he was horrifically tortured and now he commits those same atrocities in detail on others
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Mar 5, 2021 17:41
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There's one attempted rape the lovely crown prince tries to rape uhhhh cathil i wanna say her name was? the girl they pick up from the prison camp alongside pike while on campaign in the north but it's immediately foiled and not graphically depicted at all. Apart from that I can't remember anything in the series along those lines, there's definitely no GRRM poo poo Now torture, on the other hand,
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Mar 5, 2021 17:44
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Terror Sweat posted:Other than the fact that one of the POV characters was to be a sex slave until she mutilated herself I'm coming up blank here. Who? Yon lady of note at the end of the 3rd book is essentially forced into a life of gilded several children or your lover gets a bad case of dead slavery. Though that is much the same for most high born people of any age. He didn't have to be so mean about it though. There are plenty of arrangements all through the books. It's fairly dark, but the narrative style is amusing. Sugar coating for the bitter pill of quasi-historical accuracy.
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Mar 5, 2021 18:23
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Ferro is who was referenced there. Came up for sure in the second book. May have been implied earlier.
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Mar 5, 2021 18:28
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Yeah, while there's bad stuff that happens he doesn't wallow in it. Usually the bad stuff is brutal and fast, and then it's over. These books have nothing on some of the awfulness in Malazan (like the loving hobbling).
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Mar 5, 2021 18:54
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RCarr posted:Yea there’s zero sexual assault or anything like that in any of his books. The depressing stuff people talk about is just that all the main characters don’t all get story book happy endings like in a typical story. Well... Terez gets coerced into going to bed with Jezal against her will. Never shown, but we know it happened.
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Mar 5, 2021 19:16
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Question about the Trilogy: how nihilistic and grimdark does it get? I'm about 100 pages into the First Law, and have liked it so far, but I hear people repeatedly say the series gets incredibly depressing, which I'm not necessarily looking for right now. For context, I can deal with something like Malazan fine, so it's not that I can't deal with anything dark, but certain things (graphic descriptions of sexual assault, for example) would be too much for me. I'm also not looking for some Bakker-esque "Nothing matters, life is misery, oblivion is a blessing" type thing in particular. It's neither of those things and avoids all of Bakker's tedious edgelord bullshit.
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Mar 5, 2021 19:53
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Ccs posted:Well... Terez gets coerced into going to bed with Jezal against her will. Never shown, but we know it happened. Oh yeah I forgot about that part. That's...not great Ok so maybe not a squeaky clean series but it's still nothing on the level of game of thrones (I haven't read any of the authors mentioned upthread so that's my point of comparison). The worst parts for me are the torture scenes in Glokta's chapters, which upon a reread were more graphic and gratuitous than I remembered them, but it's not bad enough to turn me off the whole series or anything. If that kind of stuff makes you queasy, you can just skim until they put the tools away It's definitely fair to call the series nihilistic though; by the end of the first trilogy you're probably going to look back and say "well that was loving grim" but in a way that I found to be entertaining and satisfying. I also feel like that overall tone is established pretty early on, so if you've made it 100 pages in and still want to keep going, I don't think any horrible tone shifts will be coming.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:00
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Okay, thanks for the heads up!
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Mar 5, 2021 21:43
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So the cover was revealed for the last book in the trilogy But whoever Gollancz hired to do the covers on this trilogy apparently just mashed together some public domain artwork and a licensed image of a lion from Warcraft. You’re telling me that for a huge seller like Abercrombie they couldn’t hire a designer who could draw their own lion and had to steal this one?  Not a good look, Gollancz. Also if they didn’t clear this with Blizzard first they might have to delay the book while they redesign the cover. Absolute cock up. A real Leo move.
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Apr 17, 2021 00:34
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I don't think blizzard's too litigious, it should be fine tbh i didn't even notice the lion, i was distracted by how busy the rest of the art was. Fortunately I have no intentions of judging this book by its cover, I'll buy whatever it gets released with and enjoy it
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Apr 17, 2021 01:03
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