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For me, the Rey vs Tie sequence perfectly encapsulated everything wrong with Rise of Skywalker. It's a shot that looks really cool for like, 15 seconds, and was perfect for putting in a trailer. But it has no reason to be in the movie. Rey has no reason to walk out there. Kylo has no reason to not shoot her, or if he doesn't want to kill her why is he trying to run her over with a loving spaceship? Then immediately after the shot Kylo just straight up magically walks away from a flaming spaceship crash through the pure power of being a main character, because the script calls for him to be in the next scene. No thought was given how this scene would be inserted into the film. It's like someone brandishes a flash card saying "AND THEN A TRAILER SHOT HAPPENS". It's clear that JJ or someone thought it would be a cool shot, which, fine. But you could have traded 'They fly now!' for some sort of actual reason and setup for characters to be in the position for these Cool Shots. When Gandalf has his "You shall not pass!" scene its after like, a BUNCH of setup and foreshadowing with the digging-too-deeply-and-too-greedily and the thumping and the light and everything. When this poo poo is earned it can be amazing. Instead Rey vs Tie is completely meaningless in pretty much every single way you can quantify. Just like how 'lightspeed skipping' has zero consequences - they show a fire and say its a problem, but it has literally zero impact on the plot or the Falcon once they get done with their gags. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Dec 3, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2020 21:37
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jisforjosh posted:Well you see Navi Computer technology made leaps and bounds in the 30 years since the OT and furthermore... Yeah, the issue isn’t that they tossed it but that they didn’t even offer any reason or explanation, so I guess Han was just a big loving idiot baby after all. There was little or no justification, explanation, or foreshadowing given for Luke’s lightsaber, the Falcon being on Jakku (there’s like one line) the light skipping, the fuel issue, who the gently caress Maz is, Snoke, why the gently caress the emperor is back, Rey’s parents (it was poo poo) the whole dagger thing in TROS, loving nothing in these movies makes any sense coming off the OT. I can ignore most of these individually, but the whole sequel trilogy exercise was an overturned toy box of Star Wars things being mashed into a bunch of ten year olds’ vision of a Star Wars adventure. And then Rey Palpatine disposes of Luke’s cursed lightsaber on
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Dec 3, 2020 21:54
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I feel like the standard "a kid mashing his [FRANCHISE] toys together" criticism really downplays how much corporate meddling and cynical marketing strategy was involved in these things. We would almost certainly have gotten a better movie if they let someone like, Idunno, Waititi or Blomkamp helm the franchise and just do whatever the gently caress they want.
Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Dec 3, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2020 22:00
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That dumb stuff is dumb, but every film has dumb things In it that arent necessarily a problem. I know what TROS was going to be when Kylo met Palpatine and he says "you told Rey her parents were nothing, well actually..." and then everything that happens for the next 30 minutes was frantic attempts to reverse the things TLJ did. The moment the film started doing that it was obvious that there was no coherent arc across the trilogy I was about to see get concluded.
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Dec 3, 2020 22:02
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Basebf555 posted:It's like "Palpatine has a huge fleet that's gonna wipe everything out and we only have X days to stop him!!" I guess the idea is that Palpatine basically was broadcasting his plans to the whole galaxy? Who the gently caress knows. I think Poe figured out that the fleet can't take off from Excelgol without some sort of signal because that planet is in hell, and it wont take off for xy more hours because of ???. The scene reminded me heavily of this scene since I think he and the gang figure it all out from Sheev's broadcast.
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Dec 3, 2020 22:50
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It's funny because Palpatine's fleet would’ve been in great shape if he had made it take off a day earlier
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Dec 4, 2020 00:00
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Zoran posted:It's funny because Palpatine's fleet would’ve been in great shape if he had made it take off a day earlier Yeah or even just silently launching one at a time as they were finished. Probably more effective. But gently caress me for throwing any critical thinking at the Rise of Skywalker.
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Dec 4, 2020 00:11
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Would the star destroyers all still have blown up if they were sneezed at or was that a one time opportunity?
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Dec 4, 2020 00:14
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I got a headache just trying to remember all the dumb poo poo in that movie in order to pick the example that sticks out the most. Honestly it's just a mess from start to finish. I think I'll go with the "I made Snoke" line followed by a vat of Snokes that he literally made for some reason. If he just has a massively force-sensitive person printer why not make an army of those? Why did Palpatine even have to be behind Snoke at all?
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Dec 4, 2020 00:15
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Has there ever been a case of the "actually everything from the past X movies was Y's secret plan all along" thing worked out or seemed even remotely plausible? It worked when they had Jason Statham's character kill Han at the end of whatever Fast & Furious movie that was but that was only for one scene. It's just so completely ludicrous whenever it's attempted, there's got to be some reason these people keep trying it.
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Dec 4, 2020 00:16
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Basebf555 posted:For me it was right when they get through the lightspeed skipping and get back to base. Poe has this monologue about how they've detected a message that Palpatine has returned and he's got a massive fleet and blah blah blah and it was just the most contrived, artificial exposition scene ever and I just lost faith in the movie right then and there. I increasingly think that 'endless hordes' or 'impossibly gigantic fleets' are just the worst thing in genre fiction. It makes the battle scenes completely pointless. We're just spinning the wheels until the goodies hit the magic button that turns them all off or kills the necromancer or whatever. So, TROS not only has a gigantic, endless fleet that clearly can't actually be defeated, but also it appears out of the ground via magic. It's the absolute worst of both worlds. A rebellion and first order, both at the end of their strength, having to husband whatever fleet they've got left, would have fed off the end of TLJ better, been a more interesting dynamic and also more fluidly allowed the focus to fall away from that battle to the personal struggles of the characters. It's probably just because I've been playing Homeworld recently. fatherboxx posted:When they loudly proclaimed they need to find a mcguffin oh yeah, and then it's lost or destroyed immediately, but also they find a new one. I'm reading the wikipedia summary and holy poo poo there are so many plot beats that i completely forgot. Just back and forth constantly. They need to find the map to the thing, so they got to a place that gets them the map, then they follow the map, then they get the thing, then they lose the thing, then she goes to another planet, then gets a new example of this things that it kind of feels like she could have got a bit earlier. Human Tornada posted:Has there ever been a case of the "actually everything from the past X movies was Y's secret plan all along" thing worked out or seemed even remotely plausible? It worked when they had Jason Statham's character kill Han at the end of whatever Fast & Furious movie that was but that was only for one scene. It's just so completely ludicrous whenever it's attempted, there's got to be some reason these people keep trying it. It was the point where Spectre fell apart as well. My god Spectre was bad.
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Dec 4, 2020 00:48
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Yeah or even just silently launching one at a time as they were finished. Probably more effective. One of them managed to get out unnoticed - it blew up Babu Frik's house, and then disappeared from the movie.
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Dec 4, 2020 01:02
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Halloween Jack posted:I feel like the standard "a kid mashing his [FRANCHISE] toys together" criticism really downplays how much corporate meddling and cynical marketing strategy was involved in these things. We would almost certainly have gotten a better movie if they let someone like, Idunno, Waititi or Blomkamp helm the franchise and just do whatever the gently caress they want. Yeah, I really mean that it’s more of a work of a bunch of different people who don’t necessarily have the same ideas about what to do with Star Wars and don’t necessarily have good ideas also, and that we don’t necessarily know how much of it was JJA or Disney or whatever. We get a lot of the Star Wars ingredients like X-Wings and Luke’s lightsaber and magic lightning but it’s a real dumb story they told. The switch ups were probably a fatal mistake on their own. If they let a talented fan take creative control over the whole series would have been better, which is part of why Mandalorian is pretty good and the prequels are at least coherent. I’d definitely take the chance on Waititi or Blomkamp just in the hopes of something interesting, but we also didn’t know circa 2014 that the Disney sequels were gonna be bad and that Waititi was really good at this kind of thing. Oh well.
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Dec 4, 2020 01:03
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Baby Yoda eat the Babu Frick
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Dec 4, 2020 01:06
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Snowman_McK posted:I increasingly think that 'endless hordes' or 'impossibly gigantic fleets' are just the worst thing in genre fiction. It makes the battle scenes completely pointless. We're just spinning the wheels until the goodies hit the magic button that turns them all off or kills the necromancer or whatever. So, TROS not only has a gigantic, endless fleet that clearly can't actually be defeated, but also it appears out of the ground via magic. It's the absolute worst of both worlds. A rebellion and first order, both at the end of their strength, having to husband whatever fleet they've got left, would have fed off the end of TLJ better, been a more interesting dynamic and also more fluidly allowed the focus to fall away from that battle to the personal struggles of the characters. It's probably just because I've been playing Homeworld recently. Yes. And I feel like it's infected a lot of media, not sure if it's related to JJ Abrams and his success, or if he was just using it at the same time as it became popular, but it's awful. At some point it isn't a space battle, it becomes random strobe lights going off in your face and you're supposed to think "wow so cool so epic" but it's just noise.
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Dec 4, 2020 01:18
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piratepilates posted:Yes. It's not just space battles. It's true of most of the big scenes in the avengers, or any kung fu scene where the hero is just styling on a huge group. There can be some cool poo poo in those scenes, and there often is. But it's hard for the scene to have any flow or structure beyond 'we'll keep fighting until the scene ends.'
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Dec 4, 2020 01:20
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Legend of Galactic Heroes.
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Dec 4, 2020 01:23
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Basebf555 posted:It's like "Palpatine has a huge fleet that's gonna wipe everything out and we only have X days to stop him!!" I guess the idea is that Palpatine basically was broadcasting his plans to the whole galaxy? Who the gently caress knows. Pretty sure the entire movie takes place not in a span of days, but 18 hours Remember when travel time was a thing? Even if Lando could travel from one place to another instantly, how did he get the entire galaxy to usher in like 6 hours
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Dec 4, 2020 01:31
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Lampsacus posted:Legend of Galactic Heroes. That's actually a really good example of battle scenes where you understand not only who's winning, but why and how. It actually incorporates the limitations of both sides in every battle. Sure, they can do this, but it causes this. That fight between the two death stars (i know they aren't death stars) is one of the coolest space battles. I don't know if you raised that in answer to my post, apologies if you didn't, but it is a good example of the genre done well, in so many ways.
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Dec 4, 2020 01:31
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Lampsacus posted:Legend of Galactic Heroes. LotGH handles things better than most, but even it struggles at times to have the animation of its big space fleet battles match the exposition. It becomes more of a problem in the second half of the series, where the number of ships in Yang's fleet doesn't always match up episode by episode. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Dec 4, 2020 |
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Dec 4, 2020 01:31
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AdmiralViscen posted:Pretty sure the entire movie takes place not in a span of days, but 18 hours I was in this thread when someone concluded that the time frame is wonky, most likely, because they changed it during production. The ticking clock (which barely affects the plot) feels like a late addition.
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Dec 4, 2020 01:33
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Snowman_McK posted:I increasingly think that 'endless hordes' or 'impossibly gigantic fleets' are just the worst thing in genre fiction. It makes the battle scenes completely pointless. We're just spinning the wheels until the goodies hit the magic button that turns them all off or kills the necromancer or whatever. So, TROS not only has a gigantic, endless fleet that clearly can't actually be defeated, but also it appears out of the ground via magic. It's the absolute worst of both worlds. A rebellion and first order, both at the end of their strength, having to husband whatever fleet they've got left, would have fed off the end of TLJ better, been a more interesting dynamic and also more fluidly allowed the focus to fall away from that battle to the personal struggles of the characters. It's probably just because I've been playing Homeworld recently. If there's logistics, there's economics, which means there's politics, and we can't have that. I mean we will anyway but...let's pretend
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Dec 4, 2020 01:35
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DeimosRising posted:If there's logistics, there's economics, which means there's politics, and we can't have that. I mean we will anyway but...let's pretend That's probably a big aspect of it. Only villains have endless hordes, while the good guys never have enough stuff. It's something I've noticed in all those lovely WW3 techno thriller novels as well. post USSR Russia can put together a huge army with thousands of tanks off page in five minutes, while the allies have to deal with the consequences of post cold war funding cuts.
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Dec 4, 2020 02:55
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ROS is less a movie and more a long form optical and auditory illusion designed to convince your brain you saw a new star wars. When it's not just a highlight reel of the old films, it's the dry erase board at bad robot titled "what havent we seen in star wars that we would like to see" (e.g. jaws-rey, the tie fighter jump, battle atop a spaceship). It's almost certainly by design that you cant process one thing before the next starts
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Dec 4, 2020 03:37
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they should have made david lynch make episode 9
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Dec 4, 2020 07:21
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gently caress outta here any y'all thinking Ross is worse than Jurassic World At least skywalker is funny in it's badness! JW is just wretchedly awful
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Dec 4, 2020 10:04
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Blood Boils posted:gently caress outta here any y'all thinking Ross is worse than Jurassic World Blue is better than anything in RoS and she giving a head nod to the TRex after teaming up to beat the boss villain dino is funnier than any forced joke in the movie too. Only good part of Rise is the quick cut to the alien dancing in Burning Man because that was at least a fun shot/cut.
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Dec 4, 2020 11:18
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B.D. Wong revealing that he was a villain the whole time was a better reveal than Ian McDarmind revealing he was behind everything.
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Dec 4, 2020 11:42
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SPECTRE was a real disappointment for me for a number of reasons, but mostly because I really thought they were building up a Solid Bond/Liquid Bond confrontation (I suppose they already kinda did that in Skyfall, but still) and deep down I'm still waiting for a Bond movie to finally end with Bond vs a Metal Gear.
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Dec 4, 2020 12:28
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Yeah or even just silently launching one at a time as they were finished. Probably more effective. Foregoing practicality in favor of theatrics and Sith puppetmaster bullshit is on brand for Palps. He could've easily splatted the Rebellion in Jedi but let the trap marinate for longer all for the drama of seducing Luke to the Dark Side. Of course in RoS it is even more ridiculous and hyperbolic and "beacons" make even less sense than a remote shield generator
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Dec 4, 2020 13:08
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Jurassic World is a terrible but coherent and entertaining movie on first watch. i can’t say I enjoyed any part of watching TROS
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Dec 4, 2020 17:15
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Blood Boils posted:gently caress outta here any y'all thinking Ross is worse than Jurassic World I really didn't find anything funny about the badness of ROS. To be honest I felt insulted. Jurassic World didn't have the baggage of being the end to a trilogy, so it was easier for me to just enjoy it as shameless absurd fan service. And the fan service that was there felt much more organically inserted into the story than any of the bullshit in ROS. Ghost Leviathan posted:SPECTRE was a real disappointment for me for a number of reasons, but mostly because I really thought they were building up a Solid Bond/Liquid Bond confrontation (I suppose they already kinda did that in Skyfall, but still) and deep down I'm still waiting for a Bond movie to finally end with Bond vs a Metal Gear. I'll always hate SPECTRE because I took my 80 something year old grandfather to see it because he loved the classic Bonds and SPECTRE seemed like it was gonna be a nod to those and I thought it would be a relatively simple and self contained story. Well my grandfather left the theater completely confused and it was just sad all around, I felt like poo poo about it and I blame the movie.
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Dec 4, 2020 17:19
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romanowski posted:they should have made david lynch make episode 9 at gunpoint?
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Dec 4, 2020 17:21
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Boba Fett made his “non cameo” debut on Mando today, he kicked rear end and hosed up a whole platoon of Stormtroopers before he got his armor back. It was pretty cool! He also confirmed that his dad Jango was a foundling Mandolorian and fought in the Mando Civil war. Looks like he’s going to be a cool cat and partner up with Din for at least the last few episodes. It also squashed all the rumors that he’s a dumbass that can’t really fight.
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Dec 4, 2020 17:24
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Cartoon Man posted:Boba Fett made his “non cameo” debut on Mando today, he kicked rear end and hosed up a whole platoon of Stormtroopers before he got his armor back. It was pretty cool! He also confirmed that his dad Jango was a foundling Mandolorian and fought in the Mando Civil war. Looks like he’s going to be a cool cat and partner up with Din for at least the last few episodes. It also squashed all the rumors that he’s a dumbass that can’t really fight. Dude. Like, I've already seen it, but maybe throw spoiler tags around this for people who haven't had the chance to yet? It's not even noon. I know this is the "spoiler thread", but only because there is no other Star Wars movie thread. And this is the movie thread. Try to not be a dick, maybe? thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Dec 4, 2020 |
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Dec 4, 2020 17:36
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I was thinking the same thing but then I realized this was the spoiler thread so I was like oh well I guess I walked right into that one
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Dec 4, 2020 17:38
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piratepilates posted:at gunpoint? Yes, give a guy a Mickey Mouse costume, an AK-47 and daily pile of cocaine and that guy is me
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Dec 4, 2020 17:40
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piratepilates posted:at gunpoint? whatever it takes
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Dec 4, 2020 17:52
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romanowski posted:whatever it takes That's fair, and probably necessary since it seemed like he pulled out of the project instead of the other way around. I used to wonder how the hell a Lynch RotJ would possibly work based off what I saw in Mulholland Drive, Twin Peaks, Lost Highway but then I saw his Dune and realized how it would go, and how good it would have been 
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Dec 4, 2020 17:57
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Re: JW I genuinely love all you disgusting freaks, but Ive never been more #disappointed! Re: Bobby Fett Is taking out stormtroopers really all that impressive? They get owned by everyone including ewoks! Still at least one of Lucas' most evil acts has been undone - portraying mercenaries as overrated losers who die like chumps
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Dec 4, 2020 17:57
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