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freebooter posted:Yeah but remember when you're a teenager, each lived year and each anticipated year lasts for about five years. I feel like my adult life, even the Plague Year, is just whipping by. Given how evasive she is about it all of a sudden, I'm guessing Applegate was referring to Loren having her period or going through sexual changes as she prematurely aged and her body matured. Without actually saying that because this was the 90s and a teenager talking about normal bodily functions wouldn't be considered appropriate for a YA book.
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# ? Dec 4, 2020 16:21 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 01:55 |
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Cythereal posted:Given how evasive she is about it all of a sudden, I'm guessing Applegate was referring to Loren having her period or going through sexual changes as she prematurely aged and her body matured. Without actually saying that because this was the 90s and a teenager talking about normal bodily functions wouldn't be considered appropriate for a YA book. Maybe, but Loren seemed like a high schooler who was like 16 before this and not prepubescent. My guess is (spoiler for the rest of the book) it's so Elfangor/Loren can marry/have a sexual relationship without it being too "technically, it's ephebophilia".
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# ? Dec 4, 2020 16:29 |
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Yeah the other sequence I remember most about this book besides the horrific McDonald's cashier is Loren impaling one of the Motrons with her rapidly growing fingernails and then beating another to death with a softball bat. Pretty horrific, but also kinda badass.
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# ? Dec 4, 2020 20:31 |
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I loved the Motrons' design, because in my head's imagination they are basically just really tall traffic cones or wet floor signs with wheels and also their heads are birds that are made entirely of a beak and wings. It's also why I don't really like the default depiction of Andalites, they're too... photoshop kitbashed? Everything else in the series is described as something genuinely really freaking weird looking, Andalites with rippling human chest muscles seems so wrong. Way earlier someone posted a virgin Andalite chad hork-bajir meme where the andalite was pretty alien and inhuman and it fits in my head a lot better than blue centaur with no mouth and a vagina nose.
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# ? Dec 4, 2020 20:48 |
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Cythereal posted:Given how evasive she is about it all of a sudden, I'm guessing Applegate was referring to Loren having her period or going through sexual changes as she prematurely aged and her body matured. Without actually saying that because this was the 90s and a teenager talking about normal bodily functions wouldn't be considered appropriate for a YA book. Epicurius posted:Maybe, but Loren seemed like a high schooler who was like 16 before this and not prepubescent. My guess is (spoiler for the rest of the book) it's so Elfangor/Loren can marry/have a sexual relationship without it being too "technically, it's ephebophilia". I assumed that evasive line was her being embarrassed about/not sure how to communicate to an alien that her breasts had seen significant growth too, along with her hair and nails. Cuz yeah she's a bit old to just then be starting her reproductive cycle. The line about being 18 though, yeah, that was absolutely to dodge the squick factor about them going on to get married. CidGregor fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Dec 5, 2020 |
# ? Dec 5, 2020 00:26 |
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I mean there wouldn't really be a squick factor even if the aging jump didn't happen because it would have been very easy to say they didn't get married until after a few years after returning to earth.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 00:34 |
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The Andalite Chronicles-Chapter 45quote:Three Years Later … You might remember the Frolis Maneuver. It's what Ax used to take his human shape. quote:And for the last time. You see, I was done with the fight. I had done all I could, and I had made a mess of things. My people would be better off without me. And there was no way to hide over the long term. I had to become a human. And stay a human. Little joke there the kids might not get. quote:One day I got a terrible shock. I saw Chapman at the college. I was with Loren at the time. This is one of those "busted" moments. Chapter 46 quote:I couldn’t believe it. I had never been sure I believed in Ellimists. I still wondered if it was some kind of trick. He looked fully human. But of course, for a true Ellimist, such things are easy. There's one more chapter here, because I think it needs to go with the other two as a unit, and then we can talk about all three of them together. Chapter 47 quote:Once, a long time before, I had explained to Loren what it must be like to see the universe as the Ellimists saw it. And now, as the Ellimist lifted me up out of the everyday world of three dimensions of space and one of time, I saw what he saw. So honestly, I find these three chapters just really emotionally powerful. Really, they could be a book in themselves....it starts, and he's running away, from what he sees as his failure, from the war, from what he's done and failed to do. He's in pain, and so he comes to Earth where he can just be human and not worry about it. And Loren is there....they build a life together, they're happy, he's content. Then the Elimist shows up and says basically, "You don't get to be happy at the expense of the time line. If you're here, the Yeerks are going to win.", and so he agrees to go back, and erase his life, basically (although not the parts where he inspired Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, apparently). Then, at the end, he realizes the worst part...he's going to have a son, and going back means he's going to lose that...he won't know him, he won't be able to see him grow up or take care of him. But he also sees that his going back meant that there's hope now. Not lying, these three chapters are pretty drat tragic.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 02:20 |
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I honestly had misremembered the parts where he's on earth, married to Loren, in the false time-line, as like... an entire book's worth of content. Not just a few chapters, dang.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 02:50 |
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It's also interesting how this is one of those classic tropes in action films. The veteran has been scarred by his experiences, his last mission having gone totally wrong, and is living out there in the wilderness, Then the official shows up, and he says something like, "We've found Sharif.", and has to talk the guy into coming back. That's really what these chapters are.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 03:22 |
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FlocksOfMice posted:I honestly had misremembered the parts where he's on earth, married to Loren, in the false time-line, as like... an entire book's worth of content. Not just a few chapters, dang. Yeah this seems real rushed compared to what I recall. Also a bit of retconning gets done later on: This must be about 1983/4 if Tobias is getting born, but we learn later Visser One and her partner are the first, unauthorised Yeerk scouts, and they don't show up until the Gulf War. Also KA decided later there's definitely only one Ellimist. Also, despite Elfangor's determination to make sure nobody ever finds the Time Matrix... what do the Animorphs end up doing with it? They stop a Yeerk from getting his hands on it, but I can't remember what becomes of it after that.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 04:29 |
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freebooter posted:Yeah this seems real rushed compared to what I recall. An Ellimist did it? Tongue in cheek, obviously, but we do find out that 'Battles are lost that should have been won'. Maybe, because of no Elfangor in the war, the Yeerks are a lot more successful in the war than they were in the original timeline, and therefore actually have the resources and time to try to find Earth, instead of it just being Edriss's obsession, so they're able to get to it sooner. Alternately, the Ellimist is lying for effect. It's not the only time he's been less than honest. And after Megamorphs 3, the Time Matrix gets one more mention in another book, which is just basically, "Hey, remember when we fixed the timeline after the Yeerk tried to use it?", and then it's just dropped. It's still buried in an abandoned construction site somewhere in the LA metro region, apparently. The only ones who know about it are Jake and the gang, and they basically, at the end of that book, decide changing time is too dangerous. Honestly, this is a thing that happens a lot in these books. Possible plot points and threads are brought up and then dropped without conclusion, there's a lot of stuff that doesn't get followed up on. It's just something you need to accept to enjoy the series.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 05:08 |
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Epicurius posted:It's also interesting how this is one of those classic tropes in action films. The veteran has been scarred by his experiences, his last mission having gone totally wrong, and is living out there in the wilderness, Then the official shows up, and he says something like, "We've found Sharif.", and has to talk the guy into coming back. That's really what these chapters are. Or, this feels a lot like the time-travelling visions of A Christmas Carol, or especially It's A Wonderful Life, with Elfangor seeing a vision of how the war would go without him and deciding to undo his decisive choice.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 07:28 |
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freebooter posted:Yeah this seems real rushed compared to what I recall. Ellimist chat technically even if there is only one its some weird hive mind of clones of himself that congealed into a weird gestalt being or beings with a singular purpose, also a bunch of his clone brain ships might have survived one of the crayak encounters so non god being copies might still exist as well? the Ellimist chronicles was loving weeeeird for a kids book
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 07:36 |
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FlocksOfMice posted:I honestly had misremembered the parts where he's on earth, married to Loren, in the false time-line, as like... an entire book's worth of content. Not just a few chapters, dang. freebooter posted:Yeah this seems real rushed compared to what I recall. But yeah, I think I remember going through this epilogue section slowly, parsing out the implications. Especially the line about the Frolis Maneuver. How exactly does a giant blue deer-centaur-scorpion with too many eyes and fingers successfully contrive ways to physically touch humans, repeatedly, without being seen? Even if the acquiring process stuns them for a while afterwards, you can't be in morph to do it!
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 07:58 |
Fuschia tude posted:But yeah, I think I remember going through this epilogue section slowly, parsing out the implications. Especially the line about the Frolis Maneuver. How exactly does a giant blue deer-centaur-scorpion with too many eyes and fingers successfully contrive ways to physically touch humans, repeatedly, without being seen? Even if the acquiring process stuns them for a while afterwards, you can't be in morph to do it! Burning man or similar I mean who's gonna believe a bunch of drugged out folks babbling about blue half-deer half-humans?
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 08:01 |
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He could also just knock out some campers with his tail blade or something. Not totally ethical maybe, but it would do the trick. It's been mentioned before but I wonder if the reason such a specific and kind of useless seeming maneuver has a name is because the Andalites use it for espionage. Could be handy to be a nonspecific Andalite or other sentient being if you're trying to infllitrate Leera or a Yeerk pool or something.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 08:17 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Burning man That one didn't start until 1986
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 12:35 |
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Did anyone else ever wish that the Animorphs had tried the Frolis Maneuver to make flying bears or walking sharks and stuff like that? I know that's not exactly how it works based on the books but it sounds super rad.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 14:29 |
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quote:Al Fangor I was going to be all smug and be like 'Wait, don't we know Tobias's last name now?' But Applegate apparently saw me coming and wrote in that bit about the new timeline having a new human husband for Loren. Dang it.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 15:08 |
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About age gap - note that Elfangor is not an grown adult himself here. "This area's cramped, let's send the kid" was mentioned earlier. Arisths being middies and all.Edna Mode posted:Did anyone else ever wish that the Animorphs had tried the Frolis Maneuver to make flying bears or walking sharks and stuff like that? I know that's not exactly how it works based on the books but it sounds super rad. Or, you might take a horse and a donkey to make a mule, but that's as far as it goes.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 15:24 |
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Bobulus posted:I was going to be all smug and be like 'Wait, don't we know Tobias's last name now?' But Applegate apparently saw me coming and wrote in that bit about the new timeline having a new human husband for Loren. Dang it. Oh I thought Loren was her last name, like Chapman, and we hadn't been told her first. Looking it up now, I was wrong, and also lol at Chapman's full name.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 16:24 |
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rollick posted:Oh I thought Loren was her last name, like Chapman, and we hadn't been told her first. The human names in this series start getting really weird around this point. We already saw some with the croc book but just having read 16 and 18 and starting on 19 we have Joe Bob Fenestre, Hewlett Aldershot III, and a little girl named Karen.
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# ? Dec 5, 2020 16:44 |
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Gun Jam posted:About age gap - note that Elfangor is not an grown adult himself here. "This area's cramped, let's send the kid" was mentioned earlier. Arisths being middies and all. Yeah, I take them both to be teenagers for the majority of the book.
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# ? Dec 6, 2020 02:57 |
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The Andalite Chronicles-Chapter 48quote:I heard the chaotic thought-speak voices of crying, dying Andalites in my head. He was afraid to face Elfangor in the vortex, he's afraid to face him now. quote:The Blade ship’s engines glowed bright and the ship broke away from the StarSword. <You think you’ve won, Andalite?> Visser Three sneered. <You’re still just one fighter. And your Dome ship is crippled. I’ll swing around, move off, and finish you in my own good time.> This gets me too, this conversation. Chapter 49 quote:It was many years before I saw Earth again. I had fought more battles than I could count. I had won, and I had lost. So that's the book. We know who Elfangor's son was! It really was a good one. It's hard to know what to say, because has been the biggest book so far, not just in terms of length but in terms of concepts, emotional depth, and the issues it raised. I can tell you I liked it, though. I didn't show you the three covers yet, so here they are. I especially like the last one, with the kids in the reflection of his eye. So what did everyone think? Epicurius fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Dec 6, 2020 |
# ? Dec 6, 2020 03:21 |
I liked it a lot too, when I first read it, and now even more. Thanks for doing this, Epicurius. This series is really dear to my heart.
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# ? Dec 6, 2020 03:28 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I liked it a lot too, when I first read it, and now even more. Agreed on all three points. quote:<Go to your friends, Tobias. They are your family now.> I find this really, really bittersweet. It's definitely true during the war, but I think only Cassie is really a good friend to him afterwards, let alone "family." Though I guess they all drift apart, which I think is a point KA has said she was explicitly making - bonds forged during war don't necessarily last into peace.
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# ? Dec 6, 2020 03:41 |
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Epicurius posted:So what did everyone think? Yeah, not bad. I still remember how I felt reading it the first time, but I didn't think it was as good on the reread. Partly because the characterization issues mentioned earlier seemed to really stick out now, and partly my already knowing what was coming up. But you can't go back to being 12.
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# ? Dec 6, 2020 12:27 |
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# ? Dec 6, 2020 12:34 |
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Fuschia tude posted:But you can't go back to being 12. And at 12, my house had incredibly slow dial-up internet that I was allowed to use for 30 minutes a week, so we didn't know about gifs and flicking the pages of a book to watch this happen was mindblowing
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# ? Dec 6, 2020 13:35 |
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I really enjoyed the Ellimist's characterization in this, where he purports to just be setting things right but is really just setting things up in the way most advantageous to his side. There are all sorts of other ways he could have fixed the timeline, but he wants Loren and Elfangor to have Tobias, Arbron to be a Taxxon, Visser Three to be Visser Three, and so on.
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# ? Dec 6, 2020 17:56 |
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For a YA book, that dealt with some heavily poo poo in a surprisingly mature way. Full marks.
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# ? Dec 6, 2020 23:17 |
Alloran was right that war crimes are preferable to an entire galaxy being enslaved But thats a pretty specific caveat, kinda like the Kirk rule - break whatever rule you need to but you better be drat sure you save Earth ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:I really enjoyed the Ellimist's characterization in this, where he purports to just be setting things right but is really just setting things up in the way most advantageous to his side. There are all sorts of other ways he could have fixed the timeline, but he wants Loren and Elfangor to have Tobias, Arbron to be a Taxxon, Visser Three to be Visser Three, and so on. This is actually a really, really good point, and if Visser Three isn't Visser Three, you have Visser One leading the invasion of Earth which would likely take all of about three weeks and end in a crushing and complete Yeerk victory. Comrade Blyatlov fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Dec 6, 2020 |
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# ? Dec 6, 2020 23:26 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Alloran was right that war crimes are preferable to an entire galaxy being enslaved Down this road of thinking and how much of an effect the host has on the yerk. I wonder if allorns rather extreme and narrow world view shaped visser three over the years into who he is.
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# ? Dec 6, 2020 23:41 |
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Zasze posted:Down this road of thinking and how much of an effect the host has on the yerk. I wonder if allorns rather extreme and narrow world view shaped visser three over the years into who he is. Well, we'll get to see more of a pre-Alloran Visser 3 in The Hork-Bajir Chronicles, so that'll allow for a comparison.
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# ? Dec 7, 2020 00:08 |
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Sorry, but for personal reasons, the beginning of the new book will be posted tomorrow and not tonight. While, you know I try to keep to a daily schedule of updates, it's not always possible. My apologies.
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# ? Dec 7, 2020 03:28 |
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Epicurius posted:Sorry, but for personal reasons, the beginning of the new book will be posted tomorrow and not tonight. While, you know I try to keep to a daily schedule of updates, it's not always possible. My apologies. Thank you for your diligence so far. This thread has been a staple of my day for the past few weeks. I'm looking forward to book 13 as it was one of my favorites. See you tommorow and hope all is well
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# ? Dec 7, 2020 04:13 |
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Yeah dw about it, you're awesome for doing this at all. If I remember correctly, next book is an absolute classic.
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# ? Dec 7, 2020 04:19 |
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Agreed that this thread is a daily treat for me, no worries on taking a break in posting! Also excited for what’s coming up. We’re really getting into the “golden age” of the series here I think. We’re past early introductory stuff setting up the conflict and characters, and it’ll be at least a while before the ghostwritten “filler” stuff kicks in. Of course there are still plenty of pieces to fall into place! Looking forward to it.
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# ? Dec 7, 2020 16:10 |
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Animorphs Book 13: The Change-Chapter 1quote:My name is Tobias. So it's a Tobias book, and he's just having breakfast. This is also the first main sequence book without the long "I can't tell you who I am" intro, going so far as to make fun of it. Chapter 2 quote:This is my life now. I accept it. And there are some very nice things about being a bird. Some very nice things. I want to remind you, these are the two characters Scholastic thought the reader would be least interested in. Also, for the record, Tobias is Ax's uncle. quote:I flapped and glided and soared till I was over houses. They were just little squares of gray and orange and brown roofs. Tiny swimming pools glittered an unnatural blue. I saw trimmed green lawns and parked rectangles of cars and roads with dotted white lines down the middle. I'm kind of sad now. Still, I liked the bird's eye view introduction to the other characters. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Dec 8, 2020 |
# ? Dec 8, 2020 01:50 |
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# ? May 27, 2024 01:55 |
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Epicurius posted:I want to remind you, these are the two characters Scholastic thought the reader would be least interested in. Also, for the record, Tobias is Ax's uncle. I have a very long-standing belief that publishers don't actually have a loving clue what resonates with readers feetnotes posted:Also excited for whats coming up. Were really getting into the golden age of the series here I think. Were past early introductory stuff setting up the conflict and characters, and itll be at least a while before the ghostwritten filler stuff kicks in. From memory this one is great but is then followed by a few clunkers; the most solid run in the series is around 18-27. At least one clunker in there the Helmacrons but every other book knocks it out of the park.
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# ? Dec 8, 2020 02:36 |