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at the end of the day all fuel based power plants burn a thing to boil water to make a turbine spin. There no other way to slice it other than combining the turbine + boiler into a "power plant" and allow more esoteric fuel methods that may cut out a middle process (e.g. converting crude oil into solid fuel products). I think the only thing that'd help make solid fuel have a little more spice to it is if they could have different burning temperatures, so the boiled product can have higher values. but I guess at the end of the day having more joules of energy being used at a constant lower rate will basically surmount to the same thing as blasting it quickly to get a higher temp. It's interesting because higher temp steam does change the output of things, I have a steam miner that changes the output speed according to the temp of the steam. Fishbus fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Dec 4, 2020 |
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Dec 4, 2020 02:53
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| # ? May 19, 2024 15:35 |
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More joules from better fuels is not quite as boring as it first appears, if the engines are capable of more output from the higher temp then a fuel change is a free upgrade to your power plant output. The mod I'm making has higher efficiency for the superheater to provide more of a reason to use it and to justify the plumbing. I think I will expand the scope a little and add oil- and gas-fired boilers and superheaters. It's pretty cool to get 5.4 MW from a single turbine running off coal or solid fuel.
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Dec 4, 2020 03:21
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Fishbus posted:at the end of the day all fuel based power plants burn a thing to boil water to make a turbine spin. There no other way to slice it other than combining the turbine + boiler into a "power plant" and allow more esoteric fuel methods that may cut out a middle process (e.g. converting crude oil into solid fuel products). It isn't vanilla but bob's mods seem pretty much like how I like modded minecraft to be, way better. Anyway this is my sea of oil burning generators, with a few teraformers planting saplings to help contain the huge pollution being generated. Also I use logistics robots to mostly replace transport belts, is that not as good in vanilla or is it just too easy? Also I do have a lot of nuke plants generating heat for steam but I made an omega drill and surrounded it with speed 8 filled beacons feeding into an infinite buffer chest and it was eating up almost a gigawat all on its own so I made the oil burning generator field to do something with an untouched oil field.  
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Dec 4, 2020 04:18
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I personally found the jump from steam engines to nuclear a bit jarring. It would have been a smoother transition if there was an extra step between them. You go from making simple handcrafted steam engines and boilers to needing a tonne of assembler machines to feed other assemblers that make all the parts required for a nuclear setup, and it takes a bunch of resources.
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Dec 4, 2020 09:48
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Can someone clarify how power in the Spidertron works? I can see that there's an equipment grid that you can load fusion reactors into, but for some reason I seem to be able to draw more power than the number of available reactors. It there inherant power provision from the reactors used in constructing it so that I get an additional 1500kw on top of whatever's in the grid? Or is it something else?
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Dec 4, 2020 11:21
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Do you have batteries in the grid? Those provide power as well
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Dec 4, 2020 13:26
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Could you post a screenshot of the equipment grid?
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Dec 4, 2020 13:34
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Help me choose colours! I need to distinguish between four different boiler-based entities: Vanilla boilers - unchanged Solid-fuelled superheater: ??? Oil/gas-fired boilers - black Oil/gas-fired superheater - ???
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Dec 4, 2020 13:37
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Solid fuel superheater: A red/yellow theme that evokes a wood fire Oil/gas superheater: a blue/violet theme that evokes a gas flame
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Dec 4, 2020 13:56
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The red one, by way of example:
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Dec 4, 2020 14:19
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Qubee posted:I personally found the jump from steam engines to nuclear a bit jarring. It would have been a smoother transition if there was an extra step between them. You go from making simple handcrafted steam engines and boilers to needing a tonne of assembler machines to feed other assemblers that make all the parts required for a nuclear setup, and it takes a bunch of resources. Ah, so it's just me that hand-built my nuclear reactors, then. Really should have had an interim stage, though, yeah. Then again there's a lot of "there really should have been another option here" mechanics for me.
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Dec 4, 2020 14:26
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I feel like I’m missing the joke here, but the interim step between steam boilers and nuclear power is solar energy.
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Dec 4, 2020 15:17
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nrook posted:I feel like I’m missing the joke here, but the interim step between steam boilers and nuclear power is solar energy. Solar is more of a "third option" choice, though; it works fundamentally differently from the fuel-burning steam producers with no upgrade path of its own, and it exists more to give a maintenance free alternative to power. Even the achievements reinforce that as far as communicating developer intent; there's no achievement for "launch a rocket without nuclear power" or similar, and I don't believe there's one for building a certain amount of it, but they're both tracked for solar in the same way that logistics networks are. Solar vs nuclear isn't an upgrade path, it's a fork in upgrades entirely. If that makes sense.
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Dec 4, 2020 15:33
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GotLag posted:Help me choose colours! Can't you use the system they added recently to give them a different glow out the exhaust from different fuels? More red for vanilla fuels, blue hue for liquid fuels? Then you'd only need one base recolor for the superheater, and I think red is a fine choice for that.
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Dec 4, 2020 16:03
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SkyeAuroline posted:Solar is more of a "third option" choice, though; it works fundamentally differently from the fuel-burning steam producers with no upgrade path of its own, and it exists more to give a maintenance free alternative to power. Even the achievements reinforce that as far as communicating developer intent; there's no achievement for "launch a rocket without nuclear power" or similar, and I don't believe there's one for building a certain amount of it, but they're both tracked for solar in the same way that logistics networks are. Solar vs nuclear isn't an upgrade path, it's a fork in upgrades entirely. I agree with the fork argument, but there is no nuclear related achievement because the achievements were finalized before nuclear was implemented.
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Dec 4, 2020 16:18
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VictualSquid posted:I agree with the fork argument, but there is no nuclear related achievement because the achievements were finalized before nuclear was implemented. Ah, that explains it. I bought and played a little of the game back when the old car model was still in, then shelved it until it was "done" so I didn't burn myself out, so I missed any interim development.
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Dec 4, 2020 16:20
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Dumb assembler/chemical plant question, but can I have an inserter take an input from one chemical plant and feed it into another chemical plant? Not the output, like with direct feeding, but inputs. Basically I want to have one sulfur plant feeding four explosives plants, but I don't want to use a sulfur belt. Can I have an inserter remove a sulfur from one of the explosive plants and feed it into the next? I don't mind a little downtime in the process, that's why it's 1:4 sulfur:explosives, instead of 1:8. e: This is for designing an artillery shell line. e2: This does not seem to work for gears/iron plates, so I assume not.
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Dec 4, 2020 19:53
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Inserters will never take the inputs out of machines, with the exception of research labs.
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Dec 4, 2020 20:00
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From a design point of view, yeah, that is the big problem from steam to nuclear: You get inundated with new things to make, organize and produce uniquely. The best way to solve it would be to have other systems or objects use some of the items. E.g. I have steam turbine miners which use steam turbines, so it lessens the blow. Heat pipes and boilers would be nice if there's something, perhaps there are "nuclear energy" like thermal/lava outlets that allow you to connect heat pipes up to them before you have the nuclear power stuff. There's the whole other slew of things to do with getting uranium ore and processing it, if there were earlier uses for uranium then that would help soften that edge. Basically you are slamming into a huge wall of STUFF, that you have to 1) set up, 2) process, 3) make a mining station, 4) weird new liquid mining stuff, 5) a bunch new buildings with their own piping systems. There's nowhere you can really slot it into an existing setup, and on top of that you have to produce a whole bunch of unique items that are only really used for just the task of nuclear fuel. My thought, like mentioned before is to 1) have other uses for uranium possibly BEFORE nuclear power, 2) have uses for turbines/heatpipes/boilers for some world like object to tap heat from, and 3) More uranium recipes (ammo types, fuels, health, tech, etc) Fishbus fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Dec 5, 2020 |
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Dec 4, 2020 21:37
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"Steam-boosted miners with improved mining speed" would actually be an excellent way to introduce several mechanics at once:
edit: Another possible heat pipe use would be an upgrade to keep steel furnaces useful later in the game when electric furnaces exist; let them hook into heat pipes, and add a way to generate sub-500C heat for them. Centralize your furnace system's fuel to simplify supply lines, and retain the steel furnace's improved efficiency over electric furnaces in the process. Another place where the One Obvious Solution can get an alternative and introduce new mechanics. Plus now I'm thinking about directly nuclear powered furnace farms and smiling. SkyeAuroline fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Dec 4, 2020 |
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Dec 4, 2020 21:50
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Feeding furnaces off of heat pipes from a nuclear reactor sounds like a very factorio thing and now I want it.
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Dec 4, 2020 22:50
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GotLag posted:The red one, by way of example: These are quite nice! I like the copper touches. It would be cool to see one where the red has more of a coppery hue. nrook posted:I feel like I’m missing the joke here, but the interim step between steam boilers and nuclear power is solar energy.
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Dec 4, 2020 23:17
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Yeah, it's much cheaper to get 600Mw with steam than solar. I say 600mw because that's about what a red belt or solid fuel will produce.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:18
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Qubee posted:I personally found the jump from steam engines to nuclear a bit jarring. It would have been a smoother transition if there was an extra step between them. ... Fishbus posted:From a design point of view, yeah, that is the big problem from steam to nuclear: You get inundated with new things to make, organize and produce uniquely. These are all great points and I'm really enjoying reading this discussion! M_Gargantua posted:Feeding furnaces off of heat pipes from a nuclear reactor sounds like a very factorio thing and now I want it. Holy poo poo. Wow. Is such a thing possible? I am glowing with anticipation.
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Dec 5, 2020 06:14
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 I finally figured out train stackers and set up a secondary copper mine, so I'm back on a roll. Overseas campaign is continuing slowly. Teledahn posted:Holy poo poo.
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Dec 5, 2020 06:36
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SkyeAuroline posted:No, just an idea/suggestion I floated. It's not in the game and I don't even know if there's a mod for it. I know friend, my comment was hypothetical. Given the heat exchanger is already translating water to steam in the same manner as the standard (combustion) boiler. Presumably this means that it is (hypothetically) possible to adapt absorbing heat from heatpipes in furnace-equivalents. Hypothetically. I've never actually looked into modding Factorio so I'm just assuming it's all easy. (It's probably not easy)
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Dec 5, 2020 08:04
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Actually that one is easy, any entity that consumes energy can be defined to use heat as its power source
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Dec 5, 2020 09:36
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Reading about steam-boosted miners makes me hunger for an adaptation for huge mods with extended burner phases to power all or most of the burner stuff by piping steam into it. Sub-nuclear steam furnaces don't really make sense given the temperatures which are supposed to be involved but also my eyes have been replaced by large counter-rotating cogs and my ears have been replaced by vent stacks emitting thick plumes of warm water vapor from condensing steam
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Dec 5, 2020 11:24
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LonsomeSon posted:Reading about steam-boosted miners makes me hunger for an adaptation for huge mods with extended burner phases to power all or most of the burner stuff by piping steam into it. Sub-nuclear steam furnaces don't really make sense given the temperatures which are supposed to be involved but also my eyes have been replaced by large counter-rotating cogs and my ears have been replaced by vent stacks emitting thick plumes of warm water vapor from condensing steam I'm currently looking into that stuff in my mod, I already have steam drills that increase their output according to the temperature, you can initially use regular boilers at (160C) so there's a marked increase in productivity when you finally pipe in nuclear steam (500C). And for a middle ground there are geothermal vents around the map that pipe out at (300 C) I'll be folding in that wonderful heat pipe furnace idea for a high tech furnace, although there could be something said about being able to smelt things with 500-900C temps. But eh, vidyagaem
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Dec 5, 2020 14:58
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Superheating released! Those demonstration setups in the screenshots each produce as much power as 12 vanilla boilers feeding 24 steam engines, but do it in a much smaller area for only 2/3 the fuel, and using 1/3 the water. The reduced water requirements especially should make it more practical to do things like power an oil field directly from its own crude product, with water supplied by train. The mod only sets fuel values for the various oil products if another mod hasn't already done it first, and changes no vanilla entities, so it is about as compatible as it's possible to be. I chose these values based on reversing the solid fuel recipe, so the only difference between using solid fuel and liquid is that liquid saves on the time and cost of converting to solid. Any feedback would be appreciated.
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Dec 5, 2020 15:05
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LonsomeSon posted:Reading about steam-boosted miners makes me hunger for an adaptation for huge mods with extended burner phases to power all or most of the burner stuff by piping steam into it. Sub-nuclear steam furnaces don't really make sense given the temperatures which are supposed to be involved but also my eyes have been replaced by large counter-rotating cogs and my ears have been replaced by vent stacks emitting thick plumes of warm water vapor from condensing steam Industrial Revolution has (used to have? I don't know if it's still available) this and some other mods have steam assembler phases. I honestly don't like them; they're too annoyingly different from what you know the rest of the game is like so I feel like I'm setting up a huge amount of extra infrastructure for nothing.
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Dec 5, 2020 15:25
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SkyeAuroline posted:
Yeah, as mentioned, it's feasible as a heat-pipe is in input option for power:
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Dec 5, 2020 16:06
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Fishbus posted:Yeah, as mentioned, it's feasible as a heat-pipe is in input option for power: Nice. What're you looking at for performance values vs steel & electric?
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Dec 5, 2020 16:09
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SkyeAuroline posted:Nice. What're you looking at for performance values vs steel & electric? No idea, my basic thoughts are: 5x (or more) crafting speed Has to run at 800C or more to work No modules Weird 2x5 footprint I want to look into the energy requirements and if there's scaling of speed to power ratio, this can usually happen with some things, but not all things. So there's def some trial and error
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Dec 5, 2020 16:24
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GotLag posted:Superheating released! You know I don't play as much Factorio anymore since a lot of other games are taking my attention, but I want you to know that your mods are amazing and incredibly appreciated. 
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Dec 5, 2020 18:01
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GotLag posted:Superheating released! I feel like side inserters may come in handy here.
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Dec 5, 2020 18:24
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Is there a way to check to see if I turned biters off? I'm playing a MP game and haven't seen biters in ~20 hours which is pretty suspicious, but I don't remember turning peaceful mode on.
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Dec 7, 2020 01:46
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On the load game screen, there should be a button to copy the map exchange string. Paste that into a new game to see the settings your map uses
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Dec 7, 2020 01:56
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I don't know much about multiplayer, but if you are able to enter console commands then the following should tell you something:code:Edit: Tamba posted:On the load game screen, there should be a button to copy the map exchange string. Paste that into a new game to see the settings your map uses Or this
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Dec 7, 2020 02:11
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Thank you. It says peaceful mode is false, but I just set up my first micro-refinery to make cliff explosives and the radars still haven't spotted any biters. Or a resource node outside my starting area. Huh. I did max out the starting area since I'm playing with people new to the game. I wonder just how large that is on RSO. Edit: Zoomed all the way out and spotted my first resource patches and biters. The starting area is huge. Like a minute or two by train huge. Wow. LLSix fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 03:01
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