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I think from this point forward I will just watch disco for the pew pew lasers and casual star trek references. I have sympathy for the cast, I know Michelle Yeoh is a good actress so they must be feeding her absolute dogshit lines. Stretching out her diagnosis across like 3 episodes is some hack bullshit too, it's really not that exciting for a 3 ep arc. All the orions look like donkey rear end. Big bad orion lady looks like she works admin for a company that sells bread clips. I thought they'd expand on book in this episode and I was looking forward to learning more about the communicating with animals thing but nah here's his long lost brother and nothing of interest is learned. Book? more like pamphlet. I'm too dumb and don't have enough stake in the NB/Trans stuff to have an informed opinion on it but I can tell the way it's written is ham fisted but like one of those double fists kirk gives the Gorn, but that's not unusual for star trek. And the actor that plays Adira looks like they're going to vomit in every scene. I get that the character is awkward but awkward =/= nauseous. The burn plot is much more interesting at this point and I wish they'd just done that instead of wasting an ep. I'm still enjoying the setting and I think it generally looks good for the most part. Just do more cool stuff! show me some more future tech problems. Show me more Detmer piloting the Trek millenium falcon rip off! Show me more of the goddamn cat!
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Dec 5, 2020 01:55
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well why not posted:The definition of words is descriptive rather than prescriptive. So if they is used as NB then that’s the definition. Meaning follows usage. I'm only asking about the verb agreement. I totally get the "they" part. And I'm perfectly fine if using "they are" when "they" is referring to a single person is the correct way to go. It sounds way nicer and much less wrong than "they is," and in most languages (or, the three I've studied), the verb "to be" is always a weird one anyway with its own special rules that run afoul the normal verb rules. It's such a universally weird verb that Spanish took one look, said "nope," and split it into two different words. It's just going to take a few more seconds for my brain to parse "Adira said that they are going to work on the phlebotinum generators once the atmospherium has been processed" properly, I guess. That verb makes my brain want to think that Adira is talking about some group of other people. It's just something I have to get used to. well why not posted:the tone of your post is not very TNG dude. There’s a massive thread on Elliot in GBS which had covered this beyond exhaustion. Check it out. I was only using the Elliot article quote as an example of how "they are" can be misinterpreted. My only question is about the verb agreement. I'm not an Elliot fan; I've seen maybe two movies he was in, and I'm as concerned with his gender identity as I am with the price of eggs in China. Edit: ^^^^ the cat! I loved the bit with the cat. Whoever is playing the antennae-less Andorian had the most believable, and yet hilarious, terrified look in his eyes when the cat popped up into his lap. You'd think he'd been handed a bomb. tarlibone fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Dec 5, 2020 |
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Dec 5, 2020 01:57
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I think it’s whack to complain that the military leader of Emerald Chain is a plain looking woman when both real and Star Trek military men often look like warm bin juice.
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Dec 5, 2020 01:58
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tarlibone posted:Yeah, that was a nice touch. And it helps me and my old man brain. Neither of the things you bring up are really particular to this specific situation. Ambiguity as to which noun is the antecedent of a pronoun exists all the time and we work it out with context. You could have the exact same situation using 'he' in that sentence if it referred to "a fan" rather than "fans". "John told Chris that he was having a good day" is a pretty typical sentence. In theory the pronoun is ambiguous, but you generally know from context. With regards to how to conjugate the verb, just do it the same way you would with 'they' normally. If you listen, people pretty regularly use 'they' for indeterminate gender situations already in natural language. "You should call a plumber and ask them to come over" probably doesn't feel strange. You just aren't used to using that sort of structure for a specific person who is present. Even if this weren't a typical situation already, this same situation exists with 'you' when it varies between plural and singular. It conjugates the same way regardless. We seem to manage okay. It can be uncomfortable trying to rewire habits that you've spent a lifetime using. The instinct when you're uncomfortable is that something is wrong with the thing that makes you feel that way. I'm not saying you're thinking there's something wrong with the people involved, just the specifics that you brought up. You're likely grabbing on to what feel like inconsistencies because you're actually consciously having to decide on words to say. Your brain is jumping to the wrong assumptions because it's been trained differently. These inconsistencies exist all the time in language, you're just ignoring them because your brain instinctively interprets them through practice. Honestly, even if we were inventing a bit of new grammar to make things work, which I don't think anyone is, we do that sort of thing all the time. T.C. fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Dec 5, 2020 |
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Dec 5, 2020 02:00
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well why not posted:I think it’s whack to complain that the military leader of Emerald Chain is a plain looking woman when both real and Star Trek military men often look like warm bin juice. OK so you're the leader of an interplanetary slaver organisation but you still get your mom to cut your hair? Not buying it.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:01
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Voyager is back in Lower Decks time, right? I wanna see Tuvix as security chief. Lower Decks is the perfect place to correct an obvious Wrong in trek history.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:04
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tarlibone posted:It's just going to take a few more seconds for my brain to parse "Adira said that they are going to work on the phlebotinum generators once the atmospherium has been processed" properly, I guess. That verb makes my brain want to think that Adira is talking about some group of other people. It's just something I have to get used to. Apart from trans and non-binary people, isn't that an extremely common way to speak in English even for a single person? As in: "The delivery person will arrive soon. They are going to drop it off at the backdoor." Khanstant posted:Voyager is back in Lower Decks time, right? I wanna see Tuvix as security chief. Lower Decks is the perfect place to correct an obvious Wrong in trek history. Its after TNG, Voyager, DS9, and the TNG films, but before Picard. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Dec 5, 2020 |
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Dec 5, 2020 02:04
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Alchenar posted:Christian Slater. He's just called Slater. I haven't listened to it, just read the quote. I agree that your read could be right, but it could also quite easily be an existing lower decks character that's been transferred into the position rather than a pre-existing outside character. It could be excitement for seeing someone show up, but it could also be excitement about how an unexpected character is in the role and was developed. "The new head of security is… [pauses] I’m really just excited for (everyone) to see who it is. I’m really proud of everything we did with the character there."
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Dec 5, 2020 02:09
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Lord Krangdar posted:Its after TNG and the TNG films, but before Picard. Specifically it’s about two years after Voyager ended.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:13
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But Neelix stayed in the Delta Quadrant, so no hope for Tuvix 
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Dec 5, 2020 02:31
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I'm not really getting the whining about Ossyraa. They're the green people aliens with better modern makeup and wigs. She looks fine and at least she's not one of those villains where they tried way too hard to just make them look blatantly and cartoonishly evil. We already have MUG for cartoon-evil acting.  Don't need a villain to dress like an actual space nazi or have devil horns. I can much more relate to the anger toward and fear of a villain that's just a kind of plain human with an inhuman skin tone.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:34
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T.C. posted:Neither of the things you bring up are really particular to this specific situation. Ambiguity as to which noun is the antecedent of a pronoun exists all the time and we work it out with context. You could have the exact same situation using 'he' in that sentence if it referred to "a fan" rather than "fans". "John told Chris that he was having a good day" is a pretty typical sentence. In theory the pronoun is ambiguous, but you generally know from context. I emboldened the part that I think is tripping me up. I'm not used to "they are" being used like it is now, so my initial interpretation is that "they" refers to a group of people. Then there's a beat, and I realize that "they are ___" means that an identified person (who may be present) is ___. I absolutely am used to using "them" to refer to a person whose identity (or just their* gender) isn't known, especially when that person isn't present. I'm not used to hearing it in the context we're talking about. So, any of the normal pronoun ambiguities are magnified, and probably will be for me until I just re-learn how that word is used. Grammar. You know I love it! *: see?
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Dec 5, 2020 02:36
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people been saying "they" like that for a long time even before it was a matter of gender identity even when a person was present so gently caress grammar
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Dec 5, 2020 02:40
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Khanstant posted:Don't need a villain to dress like an actual space nazi or have devil horns. I can much more relate to the anger toward and fear of a villain that's just a kind of plain human with an inhuman skin tone. I think they just picked the Orions to be the regular bad guys because they can slather some green paint over one or more guest stars and call it a day, rather than deal with custom one-off prosthesis.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:41
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Khanstant posted:Don't need a villain to dress like an actual space nazi or have devil horns. I can much more relate to the anger toward and fear of a villain that's just a kind of plain human with an inhuman skin tone. That would be fine. A well written villain doesn't need to look intimidating but I think we can rule that out so at least give us something visually interesting. episodic treks get a kind of pass for this stuff since the villain is only around for 1 ep but if you're making her a long term antagonist, give us at least a memorable costume.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:43
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Maybe they need her to look normal so they can turn around and have her be the XO of Discovery in a few episodes.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:53
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It's definitely feeling like with all of those planet hopping--->solving problems----> improving relations plots this season that it's going to lead to something like actually expanding the Federation again. also we still don't know what's going on with the Klingons which I find very odd.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:55
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They'll show up again in the finale looking like Worf and all 'yea we don't talk about it'
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Dec 5, 2020 03:01
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My 75% serious security officer guesses: Tuvok Naomi Wildman Security Hologram played by Robert Picardo Wesley Crusher Ezri Dax Mark Hamil Badgy
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Dec 5, 2020 03:12
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Wheeee posted:They'll show up again in the finale looking like Worf and all 'yea we don't talk about it' Yes please
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Dec 5, 2020 03:13
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Just replace Captain Freeman with the Emergency Command Hologram
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Dec 5, 2020 03:13
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The arc of improving relations is a great idea but the baggage of s1 and s2 weighs heavily on the current season.
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Dec 5, 2020 03:14
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Wheeee posted:They'll show up again in the finale looking like Worf and all 'yea we don't talk about it' This is the only scenario in which the Klingons are brought into this season that won't be horrible. And it could be Worf that shows up, too. Because time crystals. Time crystals.
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Dec 5, 2020 03:16
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Now that I'm reminded of the time crystals, I'm imagining Chancellor Gorkon around the time of TUC just going to Boreth and yelling at the monks there to let him go back in time and stop Praxis from blowing up.
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Dec 5, 2020 03:18
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I really want them to tell us more about the federation collapsing and the emerald chain stepping into the hole. Did it become less utopian when the burn happened, did having less dilithium mean you also had fewer resources, was post scarcity over? I guess the idea of the capital of a 1000 year star federation leaving it just seems a bit bananas. Even rome had to get conquered and burned a few times for that to happen. Just give me some more context so that their adventures make a bit more sense!
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Dec 5, 2020 03:34
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I actually did get the sense that maybe it was hr federation became less utopian in some ways. People talking about the federation was full of liars and all their help came at a cost.
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Dec 5, 2020 03:53
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twistedmentat posted:I actually did get the sense that maybe it was hr federation became less utopian in some ways. People talking about the federation was full of liars and all their help came at a cost. Not even that; the Federation at its peak was a land of plenty and by the 3100's it simply wasn't anymore. Dilithium is the life-blood of space travel, and without it being abundant logistically you simply have to start consolidating to survive on an interstellar scale. The dilithium that would be expended on a five-year voyage exploring strange new worlds goes much better fueling probably dozens of transport vessels for over a decade.
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Dec 5, 2020 03:58
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Khanstant posted:I'm not really getting the whining about Ossyraa. They're the green people aliens with better modern makeup and wigs. She looks fine and at least she's not one of those villains where they tried way too hard to just make them look blatantly and cartoonishly evil. We already have MUG for cartoon-evil acting.
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Dec 5, 2020 06:20
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Dec 5, 2020 06:59
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Khanstant posted:I'm not really getting the whining about Ossyraa. They're the green people aliens with better modern makeup and wigs. She looks fine and at least she's not one of those villains where they tried way too hard to just make them look blatantly and cartoonishly evil. We already have MUG for cartoon-evil acting. Is that a screenshot from the episode, or just a photo from the production? My issue is that what we know of Orions is that they have vibrant green skin and I only remember seeing her in terrible, dark lighting where that didn't come across. She looks a lot better in that picture.
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Dec 5, 2020 07:56
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Not even that; the Federation at its peak was a land of plenty and by the 3100's it simply wasn't anymore. Dilithium is the life-blood of space travel, and without it being abundant logistically you simply have to start consolidating to survive on an interstellar scale. The dilithium that would be expended on a five-year voyage exploring strange new worlds goes much better fueling probably dozens of transport vessels for over a decade. What resources do you really need from interstellar sources that you couldn't get from within a solar system, especially if you have replicator tech? I would think at worst this only makes things bad resource-wise for startup colonies, right? Drink-Mix Man fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Dec 5, 2020 |
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Dec 5, 2020 08:07
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I hope this is like the Leftovers and the cause of the Burn is never explained. Not to the characters, not to the audience, even decades from now. But it probably will be. It was Wesley.
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Dec 5, 2020 09:56
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You know, given how some people are saying some of the gags in Lower Decks were probably written in light of Discovery Season 3 (since it was supposed to air after), I'm pretty sure Tendi's getting upset over being stereotyped in Crisis Point was probably a commentary on the fact the Orions are still the Crime Species nearly a millennia after first contact with humanity.
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Dec 5, 2020 12:35
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I'm really happy that NB is getting representation on a major television show, even if that show is only on the Internet and being pirated by most of its viewers, but drat do I wish it wasn't written so poorly that it feels more like parody than genuine. You'd think being in the 30-whatever'th century, this kinda poo poo would be more "hey, it's they" "sure, gotcha" - which is how it works right now among understanding populaces in the 21st century - instead of "it's they and I only ever told one person and I look like I'm going to barf just admitting this." Also cry quota still being met. Is there going to be an episode this season where someone isn't profoundly sad? That said I loved the space ship fighter action. Very fun and wild. Especially the part where they used repainted Index motion controllers. I really hope we can get past the Detmer PTSD before the season ends.
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Dec 5, 2020 12:46
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When did Book's courier ship become a gunship? Also I'm really unsure that 'the way to get past PTSD is to get out there and shoot some people and feel good about it' is a good message. e: also I think it's great to break barriers in representation and even token representation is step above having your existence ignored by all media, it does feel like the sole purpose of Grey and Adira existing is so that the show could say it had Star Trek's first non-binary characters. The fact that Adira has been placed with the gay couple on this ship also gives me just a little bit of a twinge of suspicion that there's a set of characters the writers have put in 'the diversity box', and the main characters get to take part in the A plot while they reach into the diversity box for a few minutes of B plot to fill out the episode runtime. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Dec 5, 2020 |
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Dec 5, 2020 13:06
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Alchenar posted:When did Book's courier ship become a gunship? All the questions of "why is Book's ship being used here?" make sense when you consider the answer "because Alex Kurtzman ripped off the Millennium Falcon/Outrider and hoped nobody would notice".
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Dec 5, 2020 13:22
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I'm not really clear on what Discovery did with Book's magic powers that he couldn't of done himself over the past however many years to drive way the plogbugs.
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Dec 5, 2020 13:39
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socialsecurity posted:I'm not really clear on what Discovery did with Book's magic powers that he couldn't of done himself over the past however many years to drive way the plogbugs. Pretty sure they amplified his signal with space magic that can be explained away through technobabble. That's Trek 101.
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Dec 5, 2020 13:41
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socialsecurity posted:I'm not really clear on what Discovery did with Book's magic powers that he couldn't of done himself over the past however many years to drive way the plogbugs. Same really but I do get the idea of "look, when we work together we can do great things" which is fine, even if it felt weird in this case. I think I prefer it when the actual story revolves around whatever it is instead of it being a complete afterthought like here
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Dec 5, 2020 14:05
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Alchenar posted:The fact that Adira has been placed with the gay couple on this ship also gives me just a little bit of a twinge of suspicion that there's a set of characters the writers have put in 'the diversity box I think more than any show, Discovery has proven itself as a show that doesn't tokenize their characters or include people for diversity quotas. It's hard to have a 'diversity box' when almost your entire cast could arguably be put in that box. I do agree that the scene was a little tonally off - not because of what would be 'realistic in the 31st century' or whatever, but because Star Trek almost always makes an effort to not treat being inclusive as something special or noteworthy (and that scene had a bit of 'on a Very Special Episode of discovery' vibe to it), but I think you're stretching the argument a bit far.
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Dec 5, 2020 14:07
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