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feedmyleg posted:Watching Attack of the Clones for the first time in a decade and... this poo poo is really good I tried that, but the movie is still just too ugly and empty and has weird pacing and dialogue direction issues with the worst lightsaber battle in the series and I still think it's the second worst of the films. I like Episode 1 and 3 more on my rewatch though. I actually love what Episode 2 was TRYING to do, it just does not execute right on any level for me.
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Dec 5, 2020 17:08
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Yeah, as much as the prequels improved on rewatches, the Dooku/Anakin and Dooku/Yoda fights right after are still very bad. Like, Clone Wars and other media certainly helped in understanding what they tried to get across, but the Dooku-Anakin fight looks terrible and the Yoda fight's goofiness is still very distracting.
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Dec 5, 2020 17:18
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Best thing about AotC is it basically set the stage for a golden age of EU stuff, especially the cartoons.
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Dec 5, 2020 17:24
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Grendels Dad posted:Yeah, as much as the prequels improved on rewatches, the Dooku/Anakin and Dooku/Yoda fights right after are still very bad. Like, Clone Wars and other media certainly helped in understanding what they tried to get across, but the Dooku-Anakin fight looks terrible and the Yoda fight's goofiness is still very distracting. Yeah, but when I no longer Care About Star Wars yes I know I'm posting in this thread it's easy to just shrug and look at my phone for a minute or two while the clunkier bits are happening, such as the Yoda fight or a "It's because I'm so in love with you" moment. I actually adored the vast majority of the visuals of AOTC this time around, because the film cares far more about making something look striking, interesting, and fully fleshed-out than it does making it look like a real space. The compositions not at all naturalistic, which often makes it look like someone is standing in front of a painting but in a stylized way that I can enjoy now. The CGI and compositing was very often rough, but in a pleasantly dated way that made it feel more like a stylized Clone Wars episode that had a few live action elements dropped in. Verisimilitude is not a concern of this film, and not being okay with that was a huge part of my hangup with the visuals. I still firmly believe that a whole lot of the clunkiness and awkwardness of the prequels is down to Ben Burtt being tapped for his first feature editing gig. The acting is still the biggest hump to get over. McDiarmid, Morrison, McGregor, Lee, and Jackson are all solid to great at making the best of the material and settling into their roles. But Christensen and Portman seemed to have no idea what to do with the script—practically every line read of theirs is way off what it needs to be. Their dialogue is written in the style of 40s melodramas, but neither seem to be able to pull off anything approaching that heightened acting style—or more likely weren't directed to do so by hands-off Lucas. I couldn't help but think whenever Portman opened her mouth that this character was supposed to be played by Ingrid Bergman. I found myself really surprised that I didn't think the problem was the script anymore—the lines themselves would work, if the acting and directing was also trying to channel that 40s melodrama vibe. They probably needed to get stage actors to pull off those characters properly. Anyway, I only made it about a quarter into Revenge of the Sith before getting too sleepy, but I was very much enjoying it. When I last caught it I loathed it, so that's a massive jump. I think I finally divorced myself from the injustice that these films weren't very much like the OT and accepted that they might as well be from a different franchise for how tonally and stylistically they line up. But they're really compelling in their own goofy, stiff cartoony way. e: It's neat that The Mandalorian is so set on bridging the gap between the PT and OT and being the best of both worlds. If nothing else, it's a terrific unifier. feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Dec 5, 2020 |
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Dec 5, 2020 17:49
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The interesting thing about that is both Christensen and Portman are decent actors in other productions they’ve been in but couldn’t do much in the prequels (though that’s probably more the fault of Lucas being a terrible director if nothing else).
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Dec 5, 2020 18:06
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Larryb posted:The interesting thing about that is both Christensen and Portman are decent actors in other productions they’ve been in but couldn’t do much in the prequels (though that’s probably more the fault of Lucas being a terrible director if nothing else). Portman isn’t just decent, she’s loving insanely good. But if I had only seen her in Episode 2 I wouldn’t believe you. I’m trying to think of a modern actor who could pull off her role in episode 2 and make it better... maybe fanning?
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Dec 5, 2020 18:21
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LionArcher posted:Portman isn’t just decent, she’s loving insanely good. But if I had only seen her in Episode 2 I wouldn’t believe you. I’m trying to think of a modern actor who could pull off her role in episode 2 and make it better... maybe fanning? Anya Taylor-Joy. Her character was absolute poo poo in New Mutants but she sure as poo poo did her best and kinda made it work, despite the big 'ol bag of yikes that her character writing was.
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Dec 5, 2020 19:03
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Hmmm thinking back to "watching order for kids" chat, if you did the 6 main movies+Rogue One, would you do it in series order or put R1 somewhere else out of chronology?
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Dec 5, 2020 19:56
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The past two episodes of Mando have kicked rear end so hard even if they're campy and fan-servicey. I felt like that fight against Beskar spear lady's army and the HK droids nailed the aesthetic of the OT really well, and the costume design of the bad dudes with the gas masks and voice modulators was rad af. Dadbod Boba Fett mangling stormtroopers with a ghaffi stick was also a level of violence I didn't expect to see in a TV-14 disney thing but hell yeah. I don't really have an opinion on incompetent OT Boba Fett but my read was that he clearly had spent time being revived or trained or whatever by Tuskens? 
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Dec 5, 2020 20:56
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2house2fly posted:Hmmm thinking back to "watching order for kids" chat, if you did the 6 main movies+Rogue One, would you do it in series order or put R1 somewhere else out of chronology? Honestly, theatrical release order is still the best. So episode 4,5,6 and then 1,2,3. At that point you can do Rogue One and Solo and 7,8,9.
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Dec 5, 2020 21:11
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watching rogue one prior to 4 makes no sense, and honestly watching it prior to 3 doesn't make much sense either
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Dec 5, 2020 21:38
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The proper order is: 7 TFA 4 ANH 8 TLJ 3 RotS Solo Rogue 9 RoS 6 RotJ 1 TPM 2 AotC 5 ESB
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Dec 5, 2020 22:22
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2house2fly posted:Hmmm thinking back to "watching order for kids" chat, if you did the 6 main movies+Rogue One, would you do it in series order or put R1 somewhere else out of chronology? R1 to start, then New hope, empire, then episodes 1-3 then Jedi.
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Dec 5, 2020 23:06
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LionArcher posted:R1 to start, then New hope, empire, then episodes 1-3 then Jedi. yea this has always been my perfect order for it, the prequels hit best right after Empire, then Jedi to finish the ~Skywalker Story~ up nicely
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Dec 5, 2020 23:09
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romanowski posted:they should have made david lynch make episode 9 https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/1220722803718139905
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Dec 6, 2020 00:10
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feedmyleg posted:
What I've grown to really appreciate is that the prequels' art design is straight out of Golden Age sci-fi art. The OT deliberately went for the "used universe" thing which grew out of 70s naturalism, but with the prequels Lucas just decided to make every shot a cover of Thrilling Wonder Stories. Regarding the acting, I think Portman had a stronger grasp on the character in both Eps. 1 and 3, for whatever reason- she's still not used to High Melodrama, and I think that's the key divider between her, Christensen, and the actors who work better like McGregor and McDiarmid, but she's closer to it. The odd thing about not just the sequel trilogy but pretty much all post-buyout SW is that the art design has all felt kinda spartan. With the sequels it can actually work well, there's sort of a post-apocalyptic vibe, but I miss things being so dense.
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Dec 6, 2020 06:42
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Maxwell Lord posted:What I've grown to really appreciate is that the prequels' art design is straight out of Golden Age sci-fi art. The OT deliberately went for the "used universe" thing which grew out of 70s naturalism, but with the prequels Lucas just decided to make every shot a cover of Thrilling Wonder Stories. There's no lack of comparisons you can make between the prequels and scifi cover art, but one I always liked was this Paul Lehr piece from 1984:  
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Dec 6, 2020 07:17
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Maxwell Lord posted:What I've grown to really appreciate is that the prequels' art design is straight out of Golden Age sci-fi art. The OT deliberately went for the "used universe" thing which grew out of 70s naturalism, but with the prequels Lucas just decided to make every shot a cover of Thrilling Wonder Stories. Christensen really, really understood what to do with Anakin and how to play him like James Dean in Rebel Without A Cause. A fundamentally decent, capable, raw person completely hosed up by his own emotions and the conflicting expectations from his mentors/society. Padme seems like she was supposed to be a similar character, except she was better at managing her outward emotions and faking her way through the contradictions and failures of the Republic. Some combo of Lucas not communicating/Portman not getting it and you end up with what was on screen. Portman didn't really understand why Padme would be interested in Anakin or why Anakin might be forcing her to confront the contradictions. Padme's emotions in 1 and 3 are more straightforward. 1 she's the young queen trying to save her people and taking matters into her own hands when the system fails to help. 3 she's watching evil win, her husband turn bad and worried about having a secret child.
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Dec 6, 2020 08:39
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Yeah, one thing the prequels had going for them was art direction. Things looked 'old' but elegant, the same way an art deco hotel looks, or a old railway carriage. It was a static contrast against the OT's lived in brutalist look - which was still somewhat modern by 70s standards. I didn't care for it much as a kid but it's definitely grown on me a lot. Though much of the sequels direction is pretty derivative, theres a few designs that really stand out as an futuristic evolution of the OT look - the first order stormtroopers come to mind.
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Dec 6, 2020 10:10
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The FO stormtroopers look too happy to be threatening.
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Dec 6, 2020 10:37
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Shiroc posted:Christensen really, really understood what to do with Anakin and how to play him like James Dean in Rebel Without A Cause. A fundamentally decent, capable, raw person completely hosed up by his own emotions and the conflicting expectations from his mentors/society. Padme seems like she was supposed to be a similar character, except she was better at managing her outward emotions and faking her way through the contradictions and failures of the Republic. Some combo of Lucas not communicating/Portman not getting it and you end up with what was on screen. Portman didn't really understand why Padme would be interested in Anakin or why Anakin might be forcing her to confront the contradictions. That's it really in a nutshell. Nobody really believes in the Anakin-Padme relationship and that's driving all of the character tension so the films don't work. Just being able to sell that relationship would instantly make a lot more of the films come together.
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Dec 6, 2020 11:17
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Oddly reminded of Dragon Ball; a rare writer who admits he has no idea how to do romantic relationships and just decides not to, having it happen off-screen if necessary. Vegeta and Bulma do figure out some chemistry eventually.
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Dec 6, 2020 11:46
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Anakin and Padme are very hosed up people, hosed up by the jedi and nobility respectively, they are damaged people denied development for the sake of embodying their respective false images. Their romance is very awkward, and should be, they have been raised in bizarre circumstances.
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Dec 6, 2020 14:43
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The problem is that at no point do they have chemistry. Maybe you can use that to excuse the sand "flirting." But, at some point, they have to coalesce into something resembling a couple that likes each other in a more identifiable way than them saying "I LOVE YOU" for the emotional arc to really work.
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Dec 6, 2020 14:51
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Boxman posted:The problem is that at no point do they have chemistry. Maybe you can use that to excuse the sand "flirting." But, at some point, they have to coalesce into something resembling a couple that likes each other in a more identifiable way than them saying "I LOVE YOU" for the emotional arc to really work. Is there any truth to the story of Christensen and Portman having briefly dated and broken up by the the time production on Episode II started? They really do seem like they can't stand to be in the same room as one another in Clones.
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Dec 6, 2020 15:18
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Anyone ever notice this before? Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings and Attack of the Clones. Very similar-looking shots, only the pan is reversed:  Of course Obi-Wan is based on Gandalf and Dooku is based on Saruman. I would almost still say it was a coincidence were it not for there also being two vaguely comical extended shots of the good wizards hobbling down staircases to encounter the bad wizards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qqgPa33mXU&t=17s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehNJ-sULpsM&t=57s Even the musical cues are nearly identical, as if the Leonard Rosenman soundtrack were used as a temp track for John Williams.
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Dec 6, 2020 15:42
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josh04 posted:The sequence where he kills General Grievous is full Indiana Jones:
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Dec 6, 2020 15:51
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Boxman posted:The problem is that at no point do they have chemistry. Maybe you can use that to excuse the sand "flirting." But, at some point, they have to coalesce into something resembling a couple that likes each other in a more identifiable way than them saying "I LOVE YOU" for the emotional arc to really work. The scene during the Arena battle which let to this exchange: Anakin: You call this a diplomatic solution? Padme: No, I call it aggressive negotiations. really showed off their chemistry, but unfortunately the nature of the story Lucas was writing didn't lend itself to more scenes like this. I wonder if Lucas hadn't written himself into a corner in the early days by numbering the films "Ep IV, Ep I", etc hampered him in some ways. Like instead of prequel trilogy, he could have done four in five films which led to more fleshing it. Which we did get, in a way, with the Clone Wars series.
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Dec 6, 2020 18:20
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Davros1 posted:I wonder if Lucas hadn't written himself into a corner in the early days by numbering the films "Ep IV, Ep I", etc hampered him in some ways. Like instead of prequel trilogy, he could have done four in five films which led to more fleshing it. Which we did get, in a way, with the Clone Wars series.
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Dec 6, 2020 19:35
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Robot Style posted:That was actually something he explored early on when deciding the episode number for The Empire Strikes Back (A New Hope didn't get a number or title until it was re-released in 1981), and one of his early ideas actually had the Star Wars trilogy as Episodes 6 to 8, with Episode 1 being a prelude, 2 to 4 being the Clone Wars Trilogy, and 5 being an epilogue/prologue between the two trilogies. Also wasn’t what eventually became Return of the Jedi originally going to be like 2 or 3 separate movies?
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Dec 6, 2020 19:40
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Kind of. The original idea for the sequel trilogy was about Luke searching for his sister, who was being trained as a Jedi on the other side of the galaxy, and would have ended with them teaming up to defeat the Emperor. When Lucas decided to end the series after three movies, he just assigned the sister role to Leia to wrap things up, and had the Emperor show up in the flesh rather than saving him for the sequels.
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Dec 6, 2020 22:00
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Boxman posted:The problem is that at no point do they have chemistry. Maybe you can use that to excuse the sand "flirting." But, at some point, they have to coalesce into something resembling a couple that likes each other in a more identifiable way than them saying "I LOVE YOU" for the emotional arc to really work. Davros1 posted:The scene during the Arena battle which let to this exchange: I think that Padme's attraction was always meant to be weaker and more attenuated, even if Portman didn't quite get there. It was only when Padme thought she was going to die that she gave into it, which has a "this is the end, let's just give into our passion because it doesn't matter" feel. Then Anakin got to be a big hero in the arena, he lost his arm to Dooku, and the Clone Wars started. The wedding scene is framed by the camera as very uncomfortable and heightened by the performances. Its an escalating series of bad decisions caused by stress and despair. If it wasn't all high melodrama leading to a tragedy, they would have gotten space divorced not long after the Clone Wars and (presumably) Anakin would have been around more for them to realize the relationship wasn't based on anything.
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Dec 6, 2020 22:38
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just rewatched Attack of the Clones last night because of the thread. Boy. Is it just the worst of the 9 by a country mile. Like I get that 9 is the easiest one for the thread and internet to hate. But AOTC is just leagues worse. It has two great things in it. The sound design for the Jango space fight, and the love theme. LionArcher fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 00:48
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LionArcher posted:just rewatched Attack of the Clones last night because of the thread. Boy. Is it just the worst of the 9 by a country mile. Like I get that 9 is the easiest one for the thread and internet to hate. But AOTC is just leagues worse. It has two great things in it. The sound design for the Jango space fight, and the love theme. The Geonosis battle scene is pretty loving great.
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Dec 7, 2020 00:51
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Snowman_McK posted:The Geonosis battle scene is pretty loving great. there are elements of that battle that are pretty great, but rewatching it last night, I was surprised at how much of it is stilted not by concept but GL execution. A better director would have made it far more visually interesting. (the best eliminates include that great shot of dust as troopers push forward). The Jedi often look like stilted actors with no sword training. It was also the best time for more lightsaber colors, and nothing but blue and green. Where's my yellow? Where's a white one or two? Or an orange one? I'm saying, peek Jedi, have fun with it! One of the things about Mando is that it's clearly being made by people having fun. That seeps through. LionArcher fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 00:55
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LionArcher posted:just rewatched Attack of the Clones last night because of the thread. Boy. Is it just the worst of the 9 by a country mile. Like I get that 9 is the easiest one for the thread and internet to hate. But AOTC is just leagues worse. It has two great things in it. The sound design for the Jango space fight, and the love theme. nice troll LionArcher posted:there are eliminates that are pretty great, but rewatching it last night, I was surprised at how much of it is stilted not by concept but GL execution. A better director would have made it far more visually interesting. (the best eliminates being the dust troopers pushing forward). The Jedi often look like stilted actors with no sword training. It was also the best time for more lightsaber colors, and nothing but blue and green. Where's my yellow? Where's a white one or two? cringe
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Dec 7, 2020 01:08
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LionArcher posted:just rewatched Attack of the Clones last night because of the thread. Boy. Is it just the worst of the 9 by a country mile. Like I get that 9 is the easiest one for the thread and internet to hate. But AOTC is just leagues worse. It has two great things in it. The sound design for the Jango space fight, and the love theme. I genuinely think Clones is one of the worst movies I've ever watched that wasn't just a 'this is one guy and his friends trying something and they loving suck' thing. The fact that basically every non-movie side media project set during the Clone Wars owns is a damning statement of what a complete whiff the movie was.
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Dec 7, 2020 01:33
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LionArcher posted:there are eliminates that are pretty great, but rewatching it last night, I was surprised at how much of it is stilted not by concept but GL execution. A better director would have made it far more visually interesting. (the best eliminates include that great shot of dust as troopers push forward). The Jedi often look like stilted actors with no sword training. It was also the best time for more lightsaber colors, and nothing but blue and green. Where's my yellow? Where's a white one or two? Or an orange one? I'm saying, peek Jedi, have fun with it! One of the things about Mando is that it's clearly being made by people having fun. That seeps through. I'm sorry am I missing something, why do you keep referring to "eliminates" and what are they? 
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Dec 7, 2020 01:54
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ROS is so bad it retroactively makes TFA worse. AOTC was the worst of the bunch for years but its reign is over
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Dec 7, 2020 01:55
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piratepilates posted:I'm sorry am I missing something, why do you keep referring to "eliminates" and what are they? phone posting is the worst. Elements I meant. gently caress.
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Dec 7, 2020 02:04
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