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Scanning through Hulu, the missing episodes I see are: S4E03 - America's Next Top Paddy's Billboard Model Contest S6E09 - Dee Reynolds: Shaping America's Youth S8E02 - The Gang Recycles Their Trash S9E09 - The Gang Makes Lethal Weapon 6 S14E03 - Dee Day So all the Taiwan Tammy / Martina Martinez episodes, and all the Lethal Weapon episodes.
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Dec 6, 2020 23:19
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drat, Dee's characterization got hosed over hard by this move
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Dec 6, 2020 23:28
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Jerusalem posted:Please tell me they haven't touched the episode where Dee does her ridiculously racist Obama impersonation (bonus of Dennis' incredible CCH Pounder impersonation): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ6gQd-JFMM This one with the audio flipped is... well it's ridiculous.
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Dec 6, 2020 23:29
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oh jay posted:Scanning through Hulu, the missing episodes I see are: Thank god, they finally solved racism
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Dec 6, 2020 23:35
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Super Deuce posted:This one with the audio flipped is... well it's ridiculous. Mac and Charlie's "WOAAAAAHHHH!" reaction is well justified!
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Dec 6, 2020 23:36
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multijoe posted:Thank god, they finally solved racism I had heard Dee Dates a Retarded person was pulled as well but it's still there. Guess the gang is only solving one crisis at a time. Given time I'm sure there will be about 5 episodes left deemed "safe" to watch. I just hope nobody under the age of 30 discovers a little show called The Honeymooners or we'll be in real trouble.
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Dec 7, 2020 00:34
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The very first episode is called “The Gang Gets Racist”
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Dec 7, 2020 00:50
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ChesterJT posted:I had heard Dee Dates a Retarded person was pulled as well but it's still there. Guess the gang is only solving one crisis at a time. Given time I'm sure there will be about 5 episodes left deemed "safe" to watch. No one should watch the honeymooners that show is gross and really boring
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Dec 7, 2020 02:16
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CharlestheHammer posted:No one should watch the honeymooners that show is gross and really boring And what about that Godfather movie people talk about? So slow! Somebody do something already!
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Dec 7, 2020 02:21
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ChesterJT posted:And what about that Godfather movie people talk about? So slow! Somebody do something already! Lol someone out here defending a lovely 50s sitcom. Next going to come at me with the brilliance of leave it to Beaver
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Dec 7, 2020 02:22
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Though now I’m imaging comparing The Godfather to Friends which is also really boring.
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Dec 7, 2020 02:30
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Super Deuce posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ6gQd-JFMM Holy poo poo
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Dec 7, 2020 04:58
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Millennials are going to put a horse's head in Jackie Gleason's bed. hosed up.
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Dec 7, 2020 10:12
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oh jay posted:Scanning through Hulu, the missing episodes I see are: That site is run by a bunch of jabronis
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Dec 7, 2020 11:15
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This is why you got  all your favorite TV shows because who knows when someone will decide that reference is super offensive and need to erase all memory of it.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:30
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How did The Gang Turns Black get spared
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Dec 7, 2020 17:36
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What ARE the rules for getting eps taken down
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Dec 7, 2020 19:15
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Your actors can be Black But painting your face is whack Well it seems to be that that's the rule
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Dec 7, 2020 19:20
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RBA Starblade posted:How did The Gang Turns Black get spared I mean that is straight up an episode about the gang (not) learning a very important lesson about racism firsthand, I can see wht that would be spared when episodes that are just jokes about the gang being racist aren't
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Dec 7, 2020 19:26
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RBA Starblade posted:How did The Gang Turns Black get spared racist depictions, even when done knowingly and as satire, are still offensive. the line isn't around subject matter, but how that subject matter is portrayed. swapping out your white actors for black ones to make a statement about racism is a lot less offensive than dressing up your white actors as black characters where the line should be drawn regarding what offensive content is permissible is a different discussion, but you can see why the streaming service would rather not attract that kind of publicity at all. always sunny is a show which is deliberately offensive in many, many ways as part of its particular style of humor, so this kind of thing is going to happen. its a provocative show and if you're going to be provocative then it is essential that you know when to back down and keep a low profile, versus when you can push boundaries and get away with it
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Dec 7, 2020 19:36
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Didn’t they use a hard R n word in the dildo bike episode
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Dec 7, 2020 19:41
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drunken officeparty posted:Didn’t they use a hard R n word in the dildo bike episode I hate to admit how hard I laughed at that line. Everyone else looking grim and thinking through the implications, Charlie just trying to figure it out then blurting it.
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Dec 7, 2020 19:48
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Charlie says the N-word in the very first episode of the show.
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Dec 7, 2020 19:51
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Brawnfire posted:I hate to admit how hard I laughed at that line. Everyone else looking grim and thinking through the implications, Charlie just trying to figure it out then blurting it. I am in the same boat. We all knew what they were talking about instantly and of course, Charlie just stumbling into it thinking it's an actual riddle he solved. Based on the episodes removed it's very much "racist caricatures" are the cause. Not racist issues or other actions, even in that scene it had all of them freaking out and the arbiter just staring at them unamused. PizzaProwler posted:Charlie says the N-word in the very first episode of the show. Oh-nooo he was just quoting a black friend of his, really!
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Dec 7, 2020 19:54
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luxury handset posted:where the line should be drawn regarding what offensive content is permissible is a different discussion, but you can see why the streaming service would rather not attract that kind of publicity at all. always sunny is a show which is deliberately offensive in many, many ways as part of its particular style of humor, so this kind of thing is going to happen. its a provocative show and if you're going to be provocative then it is essential that you know when to back down and keep a low profile, versus when you can push boundaries and get away with it Those decisions were already made a long time ago, though. They already pushed the boundaries and got away with it. Until suddenly streaming services decided to delete those parts, with no particular prompting or benefit. oh jay posted:Scanning through Hulu, the missing episodes I see are: So anyone know, was "Sweet Dee's Dating a Retarded Person" deleted and then put back?
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Dec 7, 2020 20:09
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Lord Krangdar posted:Those decisions were already made a long time ago, though. They already pushed the boundaries and got away with it. Until suddenly streaming services decided to delete those parts, with no particular prompting or benefit. the show creators made the content, yes, but there are continual decisions being made on the part of the platform which hosts that content. discretion is a wiser choice here, as the episodes could always be put back up when there is less attention and discussion around racist depictions in media. why stick your hand in that bear trap - your choice is between irritating some small group of anti-censorship people or a much larger, much more vocal and sympathetic group of people pointing out racist caricatures on your platform. it is a no brainer decision really, the freeze peach people are a much smaller set of potential subscription losses than the people pointing out "hey, this is pretty racist" even if that racism is intended to mock racist attitudes
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Dec 7, 2020 20:13
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luxury handset posted:the show creators made the content, yes, but there are continual decisions being made on the part of the platform which hosts that content. discretion is a wiser choice here, as the episodes could always be put back up when there is less attention and discussion around racist depictions in media. why stick your hand in that bear trap - your choice is between irritating some small group of anti-censorship people or a much larger, much more vocal and sympathetic group of people pointing out racist caricatures on your platform. it is a no brainer decision really, the freeze peach people are a much smaller set of potential subscription losses than the people pointing out "hey, this is pretty racist" even if that racism is intended to mock racist attitudes Really? I recall at the time alot of vocal BLM accounts going 'really? we want the police to stop killing people and instead we're getting TV episodes pulled on our behalf?' And even if this premise were correct this is still discounting the humble joke enjoyers who just want to watch the funny TV show without being pulled into the Great Culture War
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Dec 7, 2020 20:33
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luxury handset posted:the show creators made the content, yes, but there are continual decisions being made on the part of the platform which hosts that content. discretion is a wiser choice here, as the episodes could always be put back up when there is less attention and discussion around racist depictions in media. why stick your hand in that bear trap - your choice is between irritating some small group of anti-censorship people or a much larger, much more vocal and sympathetic group of people pointing out racist caricatures on your platform. it is a no brainer decision really, the freeze peach people are a much smaller set of potential subscription losses than the people pointing out "hey, this is pretty racist" even if that racism is intended to mock racist attitudes I'm not sure that's true; how are you coming to these conclusions about the relative size of each group? Obviously continuing viewers of the show were ok with these episodes existing, and the series' general style of humor, otherwise they wouldn't be viewers. Was anyone actually clamoring to have these old episodes removed, this year? If there were people like that, what if the show's creators and the streaming platform had 100 percent ignored them (not amplified their voices in any way)? We don't really know what would happen in that situation since in similar situations the creators or producers of the "problematic" content either always give in or publicly argue back. Either way, amplifying the accusations of racism etc. against them.
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Dec 7, 2020 20:38
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multijoe posted:Really? I recall at the time alot of vocal BLM accounts going 'really? we want the police to stop killing people and instead we're getting TV episodes pulled on our behalf?' ok, so a lot of people on twitter can say that pulling episodes doesn't address police violence, and that is true! but hulu or netflix or any streaming TV platform can't meaningfully address police violence. what they can do is pull episodes of tv shows that have racist caricatures in them, and they have motivation to do so other than police violence Lord Krangdar posted:I'm not sure that's true; how are you coming to these conclusions about the relative size of each group? this is just my opinion based on my observations of the world and the people in it, folks are generally more concerned about racist caricatures than they are about keeping racist caricatures up on principle Lord Krangdar posted:Was anyone actually clamoring to have these old episodes removed, this year? If there were people like that, what if the show's creators and the streaming platform had 100 percent ignored them (not amplified their voices in any way)? We don't really know what would happen in that situation since in similar situations the creators or producers of the "problematic" content either always give in or publicly argue back. Either way, amplifying the accusations of racism etc. against them. i mean it seems really obvious to me that hosting TV show episodes which feature racist caricatures, regardless of the intent of those caricatures, is controversy bait and so the better idea is just to pull them before you have a PR crisis on your hands. we don't really need to 4d chess this out, there is no world where a streaming service would rather position themselves as standing up for free speech against accusations of racism e: i want to say here that i like always sunny, i think it is a brilliant and funny show and its use of racist caricatures is always to address the ways in which its very flawed and lovely characters view race as a way of mocking racism in society. but the fact is that the show uses racist caricatures to make this point and that in itself is offensive, even if the offense is purposeful to make fun of racism Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 20:42
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luxury handset posted:
I don't see how this checks out, the purpose of the Gang's bigotry has always been to shine a light on their lovely attitudes and laugh at them, every single time it's a factor the bigot is the butt of the joke. So I don't see how it's deliberately courting controversy just by running episodes with ~problematic~ content, most people are capable of distinguishing between depiction and endorsement and processing meaning accordingly
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Dec 7, 2020 20:50
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luxury handset posted:i mean it seems really obvious to me that hosting TV show episodes which feature racist caricatures, regardless of the intent of those caricatures, is controversy bait and so the better idea is just to pull them before you have a PR crisis on your hands. we don't really need to 4d chess this out, there is no world where a streaming service would rather position themselves as standing up for free speech against accusations of racism I didn't say they should have positioned themselves as fighting for free speech. They should have just quietly kept the episodes of the show, which they had already presumably paid for, on their platform. Without acknowledging, amplifying, or arguing against these hypothetical accusations of racism (which, as far as I know, never really existed). quote:e: i want to say here that i like always sunny, i think it is a brilliant and funny show and its use of racist caricatures is always to address the ways in which its very flawed and lovely characters view race as a way of mocking racism in society. but the fact is that the show uses racist caricatures to make this point and that in itself is offensive, even if the offense is purposeful to make fun of racism Calling something offensive is cheap. Anything can be called offensive if it offends somebody. Removing episodes of the show is offensive, then.
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Dec 7, 2020 20:54
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multijoe posted:I don't see how this checks out, the purpose of the Gang's bigotry has always been to shine a light on their lovely attitudes and laugh at them, every single time it's a factor the bigot is the butt of the joke. So I don't see how it's deliberately courting controversy just by running episodes with ~problematic~ content, most people are capable of distinguishing between depiction and endorsement and processing meaning accordingly nobody gets a pass on doing a racism just because they were doing it ironically. if you're going to create or host content like that then it is vitally important to know when to back down the bolded bit is also not quite correct - it presumes that there is some objective point where you can prove that your racist caricature is not offensive because it scored high enough on the ironic joke index to be permissible. everyone has their own line as to how far is too far, and it is always a horrible idea to try to explain to someone why they should not be offended by something. this is minimizing someone's sincere emotional reaction to a work of entertainment and historically telling marginalized and oppressed groups to lighten up and roll with the punches is, uh, not a winning strategy again, i don't think the show is racist nor are they punching at depicted groups when they use a racial caricature. i agree with you that the joke is at the expense of people who hold racist opinions. however, the format in which that joke is told is itself offensive, and there are times when not telling an offensive joke is itself a wise move - know your audience and all that Lord Krangdar posted:Calling something offensive is cheap. Anything can be called offensive if it offends somebody. Removing episodes of the show is offensive, then. people who are offended by 'censorship' or whatever are less of a risk than people who are offended by racist caricatures. you may think differently, but obviously hulu did not share your opinion historically, in the united states, racist caricatures are seen as offensive. i feel like this precedent is established well enough that i do not need to further justify it with citation Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 20:58
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luxury handset posted:nobody gets a pass on doing a racism just because they were doing it ironically. if you're going to create or host content like that then it is vitally important to know when to back down I've not seen anyone call for this though. I'm sure if you scoured the extremely aggro social justice circles on twitter or tumblr you could find a few people with a problem with IAS, but going out of your way to find someone, somewhere who is angry about something isn't a good basis for decision-making. If there were widespread calls from black rights groups to pull those episodes I'd say fair enough, but this was solely a case of media companies awkwardly trying to look like they're responding to a new media climate without actually having to do anything substantive and shouldn't be treated as anything else And context does change the meaning of things, blackface used in It's Always Sunny has a fundamentally different meaning to blackface used in a minstrel show. Mac being in blackface is a joke about how stupid and thoughtless Mac is (there's even a discussion prefacing it entirely laying out that it's an awful thing to do!), not a joke mocking blakc people's existence
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Dec 7, 2020 21:11
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multijoe posted:I've not seen anyone call for this though. ok  just because you didn't see someone argue a point somewhere doesn't make the point not existmultijoe posted:And context does change the meaning of things, blackface used in It's Always Sunny has a fundamentally different meaning to blackface used in a minstrel show. Mac being in blackface is a joke about how stupid and thoughtless Mac is (there's even a discussion prefacing it entirely laying out that it's an awful thing to do!), not a joke mocking blakc people's existence we're just going in circles now. you can try to explain your interpretation of the joke but that doesn't mean your interpretation is only one. i want to point out again that i agree with you, i am just allowing space for other people to be offended by racist caricatures because they are pretty offensive! as a creator you can even use the shock value of deliberate offense to underscore your point, and this is something always sunny does very frequently. the downside of this joke format is that there are times you will have to defend the joke, and one of the ways you can do that is just by not telling it (or, pulling the episode for a while)
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Dec 7, 2020 21:14
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luxury handset posted:ok We're talking about a seemingly entirely hypothetical group of people who I have only ever been presented by yourself, so I think it is reasonable to ask 'which people?' in this case. And that is literally the joke, you don't get to go 'that's, like, your opinion man' to start tilting at windmills
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Dec 7, 2020 21:16
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multijoe posted:We're talking about a seemingly entirely hypothetical group of people who I have only ever been presented by yourself, so I think it is reasonable to ask 'which people?' in this case. And that is literally the joke, you don't get to go 'that's, like, your opinion man' to start tilting at windmills media platforms anticipating possible sources of controversy and preventing them from blowing up into a tweetstorm is itself a good idea. like we don't have to run headlong into a brick wall every time and provoke controversy before we respond to it, we can figure when to steer around potential sources of conflict removing depictions racist caricatures from your platform before a bunch of people get mad about it is not exactly galaxy brain stuff
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Dec 7, 2020 21:19
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luxury handset posted:nobody gets a pass on doing a racism just because they were doing it ironically. Why is depicting (not doing) racism any worse than depicting anything else bad? Depiction is not endorsement. Not for racism, or anything else. Its not racist for Kaitlin Olson to play a racist person anymore than its murderous for Anthony Perkins to play a murderer. quote:everyone has their own line as to how far is too far, and it is always a horrible idea to try to explain to someone why they should not be offended by something. this is minimizing someone's sincere emotional reaction to a work of entertainment and historically telling marginalized and oppressed groups to lighten up and roll with the punches is, uh, not a winning strategy quote:people who are offended by 'censorship' or whatever are less of a risk than people who are offended by racist caricatures. you may think differently, but obviously hulu did not share your opinion You're still talking about the hypothetical people who were offended and/or harmed by these old episodes as if they are real, actual people who exist out there somewhere. You've referred to a "larger, much more vocal and sympathetic group of people pointing out racist caricatures on your platform". Who are these people (do they exist)? Where are they, and where were they being vocal? Why were they watching Always Sunny in the first place, enough to have knowledge of specific episodes from many years ago? luxury handset posted:media platforms anticipating possible sources of controversy and preventing them from blowing up into a tweetstorm is itself a good idea. Why? You couldn't write, market, or host any show worrying that someone somewhere with a Twitter account could possibly be offended. They could ignore "tweetstorms", both anticipated/hypothetical and real, entirely and be fine. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 21:20
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Lord Krangdar posted:Why is depicting (not doing) racism any worse than depicting anything else bad? we don't need to play moral relativism games to figure out how much racism is allowable Lord Krangdar posted:You're still talking about the hypothetical people who were offended and/or harmed by these old episodes as if they are real, actual people who exist out there somewhere. You've referred to a "larger, much more vocal and sympathetic group of people pointing out racist caricatures on your platform". Who are these people (do they exist)? Where are they, and where were they being vocal? Why were they watching Always Sunny in the first place, enough to have knowledge of specific episodes from many years ago? if i have to explain to you the existence of people who might be offended by racial caricatures, then i don't think we are in a position where we can discuss this topic in an equitable manner
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Dec 7, 2020 21:21
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luxury handset posted:we don't need to play moral relativism games to figure out how much racism is allowable Its not about how much racism is allowable. You could have one depiction of racism or 100, depiction still does not equal endorsement. Relying on the hypothetical group of people who can't understand that actually is a roundabout appeal to moral relativism. Its like "of course I get that Always Sunny is depicting bad people as bad, but what about the people who don't get that?". Well, they're wrong. No relativism from me, if people like that exist they are just objectively wrong. luxury handset posted:if i have to explain to you the existence of people who might be offended by racial caricatures, then i don't think we are in a position where we can discuss this topic in an equitable manner I didn't ask about people who might be offended. I don't care about "might be", and no show could be produced worrying about that. You've switched from talking about "a larger, much more vocal and sympathetic group of people pointing out racist caricatures on your platform" to a hypothetical group that might be offended by the show.
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Dec 7, 2020 21:27
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this has to be some sort of bit lol
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Dec 7, 2020 21:31
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