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Antifa Turkeesian posted:this bullshit Maybe 2020 has just broken how I perceive people nowadays, but that carries a really strong undercurrent of racism and hate to me. And this was during the Claremont run too, good grief. Maybe comic fans truly have always been terrible. EDIT: Imagine thinking that Peter and Storm should just gently caress off forever when Storm was consistently one of the most badass parts of the run. Imagine hating Nightcrawler.
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Dec 6, 2020 06:40
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Gologle posted:Maybe 2020 has just broken how I perceive people nowadays, but that carries a really strong undercurrent of racism and hate to me. And this was during the Claremont run too, good grief. Maybe comic fans truly have always been terrible. It's absolutely racist.
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Dec 6, 2020 06:44
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Gologle posted:Maybe 2020 has just broken how I perceive people nowadays, but that carries a really strong undercurrent of racism and hate to me. And this was during the Claremont run too, good grief. Maybe comic fans truly have always been terrible. It’s very racist. She’s the only one he doesn’t think should come back as a guest and the only one he doesn’t say anything more about. I have to admit that he’s right about Dave Cockrum drawing a lot of planes. Characters go on vacations twice in about ten issues and fly commercial both times, and in between they go to a space station and back on a space shuttle. Most of them do look pretty good. As I continue reading these old issues, I look forward to (or look “forward” to) seeing if any letter writers pick up on Claremont’s horny fetish stuff. So far, it’s just been some gratuitously naked storm.
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Dec 6, 2020 06:55
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Gologle posted:Maybe 2020 has just broken how I perceive people nowadays, but that carries a really strong undercurrent of racism and hate to me. And this was during the Claremont run too, good grief. Maybe comic fans truly have always been terrible. No, it's 100% racist.
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Dec 6, 2020 09:01
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It’s also issue 101 so it must have been in response to issue 95-99. Also the fact that x-men was cancelled in all but name for 5 years. It’s all racism and change, which shows nothing ever changes
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Dec 6, 2020 09:50
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Not X-Men, but the Randian Iron Man letter is great in its terribleness, if anyone has a way to find it.
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Dec 6, 2020 15:58
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Skwirl posted:The X of Swords books all have their reading order on the cover. Yea I really should have been following that.
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Dec 6, 2020 18:42
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twistedmentat posted:Yea I really should have been following that. Also every x book since the relaunch has a reading order in the back, though outside of X of Swords it doesn't really matter which order you read the individual series in.
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Dec 6, 2020 18:47
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danbanana posted:It's specifically the x-gene that makes you a big-M Mutant, right? It changes, for a while the general idea was that most people have the gene but you were only a mutant if the gene expressed itself naturally. If the gene is forced to express itself by outside factors then you'd be a mutate.
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Dec 6, 2020 19:07
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:It changes, for a while the general idea was that most people have the gene but you were only a mutant if the gene expressed itself naturally. If the gene is forced to express itself by outside factors then you'd be a mutate. I mean I know it might be asking too much but just saying you can only be a Mutant if you have the x-gene and not giving radiated folks the x-gene seems like a real easy solution.
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Dec 6, 2020 19:12
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danbanana posted:I mean I know it might be asking too much but just saying you can only be a Mutant if you have the x-gene and not giving radiated folks the x-gene seems like a real easy solution. A big problem is probably the fact that Being A Mutant was absurdly marketable for a while so making people mutants was a good way to make them more significant. (Like Cloak and Dagger.)
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Dec 6, 2020 19:20
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 (It was a pretty good series, but I don’t think he was a mutant before or after it)
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Dec 6, 2020 19:44
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Is there any specific reason why Kwannon is now Psylocke rather that Revance? I mean other than to make her more confusing.
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Dec 6, 2020 20:02
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nunsexmonkrock posted:Is there any specific reason why Kwannon is now Psylocke rather that Revance? I mean other than to make her more confusing. They switched back bodies during the Return of Wolverine thingie.
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Dec 6, 2020 20:05
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I know that, but she was still Psylocke then, and she was Psylocke before the body switch fuckery. And it wasnt really a switch - Betsy made a new body, and kwannon was suddenly now back. Edit: hunt for Wolverine wasn't a body switch - or was it? nunsexmonkrock fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Dec 6, 2020 |
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Dec 6, 2020 20:07
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nunsexmonkrock posted:I know that, but she was still Psylocke then, and she was Psylocke before the body switch fuckery. Betsy stopped using the name Psylocke at the start of Excalibur, and then became Captain Britain (then became a jigsaw puzzle). Edit: just saw your edit, I didn't actually read it so i don't know what happened, it's been explained by people who have but i didn't understand what happened and it kinda sounded like they didn't either, but at the end Kwanon and Betsy were back in their original bodies. Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Dec 6, 2020 |
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Dec 6, 2020 20:10
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ImpAtom posted:A big problem is probably the fact that Being A Mutant was absurdly marketable for a while so making people mutants was a good way to make them more significant. (Like Cloak and Dagger.) It might have had other real world implications too. Toys of non-humans had lower duty and tariff rates than toys of humans back in the 70s- 90s so Marvel argued that since X-Men were distinct from humans they would get the lower rates. Easy to see them attempting to expand that definition so they can sell Spider-Man toys at a better margin too. nunsexmonkrock posted:Is there any specific reason why Kwannon is now Psylocke rather that Revance? I mean other than to make her more confusing. Nothing more than certain artists and fans preferring stories of the Psylocke they grew up with and fearing change. It wasn't a body switch, the Psylocke(Betsy) was killed by a villain with reality warping powers but psychically jumped her consciousness into the villain body and took control long enough to recreate herself a new body that ended up being her original form since that's how she still saw herself. Kwannon was long dead but apparently she was an early resurrection on Krakoa. Couldn't be simpler. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Dec 6, 2020 |
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Dec 6, 2020 20:11
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I'd say it's branding/corporate related reasons. I don't feel there's a great artistic reason for Kwannon to go by Psylocke, have the outfit, fill the role of serious assassin team member etc. They just don't want to waste even an ounce of recognition, so it comes across that these two are interchangeable people in the role. Kwannon could die again and we'll get another blue leotard assassin woman, and they can keep selling lunchboxes (I do love a good X-Men lunchbox). It would be cooler if Betsy was still just called Psylocke, even with the different look and lot in life. Like before in the 80s etc. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Dec 6, 2020 |
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Dec 6, 2020 21:01
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If Wolverine can simultaneously appear in 30 books with different appearances then Psylocke can be an Asian Lightsaber Ninja or a White Psychic Green Lantern depending on the book. Just say Psylocke was always mentally both Betsy and Kwannon at the same time and Krakoa gave her the secondary mutation of being in two places at once.
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Dec 6, 2020 21:05
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That is a drat fine solution. She didn't even realize she was living two lives in the 80s because Charles blocked it out to protect her, or something. And/or we go Mamoru Oshii mind merge or something, we've got options.
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Dec 6, 2020 21:10
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I'm looking forward to the in-universe conspiracy theory Kw-Anon.
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Dec 6, 2020 21:15
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Harold Fjord posted:I'm looking forward to the in-universe conspiracy theory Kw-Anon. Please do this. Also, in general, where they're at now is bad because it boxes in later writers after Betsy is no longer Captain Britain. Now you either give Betsy another name or make her Psylocke again and then you're back to the confusing poo poo again.
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Dec 6, 2020 21:57
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There's two Spider-Mans, two Wolverines, two Hawkeyes, two Wasps, two Psylockes is fine.
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Dec 6, 2020 22:42
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:It might have had other real world implications too. Toys of non-humans had lower duty and tariff rates than toys of humans back in the 70s- 90s so Marvel argued that since X-Men were distinct from humans they would get the lower rates. Easy to see them attempting to expand that definition so they can sell Spider-Man toys at a better margin too.
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Dec 6, 2020 22:42
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I absolutely love Betsy currently. I really with I could get her captain Britian skin in games.
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Dec 6, 2020 22:51
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Skwirl posted:There's two Spider-Mans, two Wolverines, two Hawkeyes, two Wasps, two Psylockes is fine. It's artistically weak and money minded is all. Plus being poorly written doesn't help, in Kwannon's case.
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Dec 6, 2020 22:53
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Heavy Metal posted:It's artistically weak and money minded is all. Plus being poorly written doesn't help, in Kwannon's case. I mean, I'm pretty sure Hellions is the first time Kwannon's ever been in a comic that wasn't poorly written.
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Dec 6, 2020 22:55
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https://twitter.com/havok_core/status/1335052193267912706?s=20
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Dec 7, 2020 00:10
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Skwirl posted:I mean, I'm pretty sure Hellions is the first time Kwannon's ever been in a comic that wasn't poorly written. Yeah and I think you'd be hard press to say anyone in that book is "poorly written" unless for some reason you hate smuglord Mr. Sinister
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Dec 7, 2020 00:16
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Heavy Metal posted:It's artistically weak and money minded is all. Plus being poorly written doesn't help, in Kwannon's case. I think the even easier route would've been just keeping the status quo exactly as it was. Nobody knows who Kwannon or Captain Britain are so why change anything and confuse your audience?
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Dec 7, 2020 01:39
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Edge & Christian posted:That lawsuit was filed in 2000 and went to court in 2002, was ruled in their favor in 2003, and almost definitely led the International Trade Commission to revise their listings so dolls and action figures and toys are all lumped into the same tariff code a few years later, so given that timeframe the odds of it affecting any editorial decisions 10-20 years earlier is pretty low. Sorry, I thought the court stuff was going on in the 80s not the '00s. Thinking on the letter posted last page, it does put Kitty's notorious panels more in context. If people still weren't picking up the allegory of the X-Men, I could see him getting frustrated enough to try and spell it out for them.
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Dec 7, 2020 04:28
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Abroham Lincoln posted:I think the even easier route would've been just keeping the status quo exactly as it was. Nobody knows who Kwannon or Captain Britain are so why change anything and confuse your audience? Presumably, Tini Howard has a story to tell. From her appearances on the Cerebrocast she seems to really have a grip on Betsy's arc since her introduction.
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Dec 7, 2020 10:02
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Vindicator posted:Presumably, Tini Howard has a story to tell. From her appearances on the Cerebrocast she seems to really have a grip on Betsy's arc since her introduction. I mean, Gorgon just died, Betsy was shattered into a thousand pieces then used as a jigsaw puzzle by her main antagonist. I think Tini Howard as another idea of something to do with her after that. Unless I missed something, they said they brought Gorgon back and he's got the same issues Rockslide has, but they never actually showed him, is he still good with swords?
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Dec 7, 2020 10:21
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Skwirl posted:is he still good with swords? Yes but for some reason he holds them upside down now.
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Dec 7, 2020 13:05
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And he insists on running everywhere like Naruto.
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Dec 7, 2020 13:50
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Skwirl posted:I mean, Gorgon just died, Betsy was shattered into a thousand pieces then used as a jigsaw puzzle by her main antagonist. I think Tini Howard as another idea of something to do with her after that. The way I read that scene wasn't that he necessarily had the same issues as Rockslide, just that there are issues. I imagine this'll be followed up on possibly further in X-Factor? Here's the single panel in question, from X-Factor #5. 
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Dec 7, 2020 16:02
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Skwirl posted:There's two Spider-Mans, two Wolverines, two Hawkeyes, two Wasps, two Psylockes is fine. Who's the other Wolverine besides Laura? Oh! Jonathan. Right.
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Dec 7, 2020 16:18
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:And he insists on running everywhere like Naruto. Clearly an improvement.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:39
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How Wonderful! posted:The way I read that scene wasn't that he necessarily had the same issues as Rockslide, just that there are issues. I imagine this'll be followed up on possibly further in X-Factor? It also gets mentioned in the text page in Hellions. Which I read that first and just thought, "Huh, guess I should have read X-Factor first, that must be where it happened". But nope, X-Factor doesn't show it either.
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Dec 7, 2020 18:00
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Sorry, I thought the court stuff was going on in the 80s not the '00s. Yeah, I mean it's not even an allegory he's objecting to but just straight up saying that he won't accept a black character on the X-Men and the current ones should be replaced with the old WASP ones because Irish and Russian aren't white enough.
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Dec 7, 2020 18:19
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