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Stanko-Prussian posted:
They are going to have to do some sort of rework by the time Dendro characters start showing up.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:50
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Zwiebel posted:So, I've been playing this somewhat casually for a few minutes to an hour a day and I'm still kind of clueless in general about what I'm doing. Your problem is trying to level everything up equally. If you had one hard-hitter (and their weapon) leveled to 40 and the rest at 20 you'd have a much easier time killing those level 40 bosses than if your whole team was level 30. This will get much more important as your AR goes up, because it becomes way more expensive to level a whole party of 4 people up to 50, 60, 70, 80.... especially with talent levels as well. You wanna focus on one or two main carries to do most of your damage and let the rest of the team lag a few levels behind. Sanya Juutilainen posted:No, thanks. Bullshit like that breaks any enjoyment of the game, because it leads to infinite "pls, buff this, pls, buff that, pls, nerf these". People enjoyed Zhong Li and used him in parties just fine, until they read he's bad. Honestly I would probably roll for Zhongli if I could use him as a full-support drop-in-replacement for my healer, but his shields aren't quite enough to replace a healer without his C6 passive giving extra sustain. And getting constellations on a 5* is for whales only.... The same thing happened with Childe with a playstyle being locked behind the C6 passive, though that time it was the "stay in melee as much as you want" playstyle. I hope they go back to designing constellations like Diluc's that just juice up your DPS an extra bit instead of enabling whole alternate playstyles that non-whales can't access 
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Dec 7, 2020 17:54
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SirKibbles posted:Gacha rule # 22 let other dumbasses roll first Waiting and reading so I can evaluate like some kind of nerd is stupid. Instead I will blindly throw money at my favorite anime and then cry.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:55
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its pretty interesting to watch every little thing cause a meltdown about this game. i remember a period of like 6 months where every character added to honkai was basically awful, even if you whaled for their SSS or whatever they were mediocre at best and the community response was "thank god i get to save my gems."
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Dec 7, 2020 17:57
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I can't stop confusing Ganyu and Albedo because I just watched Overlord and my brain has created an association that Albedo = waifu with horns and it will never break free.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:58
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Childe C6 is imo kind of overrated. You still can't play him like you'd play a Diluc or Keqing where you swap three or more times before burst is back up. C4 is his really powerful one.Radical posted:its pretty interesting to watch every little thing cause a meltdown about this game. i remember a period of like 6 months where every character added to honkai was basically awful, even if you whaled for their SSS or whatever they were mediocre at best and the community response was "thank god i get to save my gems."
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Dec 7, 2020 18:00
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SirKibbles posted:Gacha rule # 22 let other dumbasses roll first Those who truely know only roll for Husbandos and Waifus, if you do that you'll never waste your primogems.
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Dec 7, 2020 18:06
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Radical posted:its pretty interesting to watch every little thing cause a meltdown about this game. i remember a period of like 6 months where every character added to honkai was basically awful, even if you whaled for their SSS or whatever they were mediocre at best and the community response was "thank god i get to save my gems." doesn't help that reddit has spent the last week whipping people into a frenzy and convincing them that mihoyo will HAVE to buff the geoman because of community outrage/Chinese nationalism/tax laws etc etc. now we're starting to get unhinged essays about how his sexy attack animations are proof that he was originally meant to be a DPS carry and we've all been robbed,  mikemil828 posted:Those who truely know only roll for Husbandos and Waifus, if you do that you'll never waste your primogems. this is the key
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Dec 7, 2020 18:08
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EDIT: The leak I posted seemed too fake, am removing for now.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 18:09
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mikemil828 posted:Those who truely know only roll for Husbandos and Waifus, if you do that you'll never waste your primogems. i'm a disgusting metaslave gamer i pick characters based on how fun + satisfying they feel to play instead of how cute they are that said, that orange eye shadow on zhongli 
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Dec 7, 2020 18:14
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No Wave posted:EDIT: The leak I posted seemed too fake, am removing for now. Does Childe reset his cooldown from his e if he has sac bow on?
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Dec 7, 2020 18:19
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YES bread posted:doesn't help that reddit has spent the last week whipping people into a frenzy and convincing them that mihoyo will HAVE to buff the geoman because of community outrage/Chinese nationalism/tax laws etc etc. now we're starting to get unhinged essays about how his sexy attack animations are proof that he was originally meant to be a DPS carry and we've all been robbed, To be fair to reddit, it's mostly the same group of idiots insisting that every character be Venti or Diluc levels of insane when it comes to DPS. It's just that it's gotten hard to disentangle them from the people with legitimate complaints about Zhongli not working as MiHoYo says he's intended to work since the former group never shuts up. I mean, this is generally the cycle things take when a new limited time 5 star comes out: At worst you get some idiots in the first week that complain about Venti, Tartaglia, or Klee being useless. These folks promptly get laughed down by everyone else after a week or two once people who actually know how to play the game come along and post a youtube or something that shows they're all entirely on the par with all of the other limited time 5 stars once you figure out how to play them. Add in a side of "Hey, look at Mona's rear end. Deeelightful, am I right?" along with "Here's my twink Venti artwork." every now and then and you basically get the general gist of things. The complaining wasn't really that crazy. Where things got nuts is when they dropped Zhongli in his current state. People went from "He seems kind of sucky on the face of it but maybe there's a catch somewhere and he's actually a good support character after all." mixed in with the usual "HE CAN'T DPS ON PAR WITH VENTI THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!" types. That promptly changed when everyone realized the issues Zhongli had were in fact quite real. At which point the idiots mingled with the people trying to shout over them to lay out stats on why Zhongli needs to get some sort of buff to fix his issues. If you actually read the remarks responding to that MiHoYo rep though it doesn't seem like the idiocy is universal, or even common. Most people are just asking him to make him actually fit the role of a limited 5* defensive support instead of the janky mess we have now. No Wave posted:Childe C6 is imo kind of overrated. You still can't play him like you'd play a Diluc or Keqing where you swap three or more times before burst is back up. C4 is his really powerful one. With Zhongli they've baked core functionality into the constellations according to their design philosophy on how he is supposed to work. Which is bad given how much money you'd have to drop on him. If this is the start of a new trend I can't see folks outside of hardcore whales or people who don't pay attention to it sticking around. 5 stars are a big draw to the whole predatory gacha thing. And the more 5 stars that suck or have a "gotcha" to their gacha the more people will just lose interest in not only spending money but also playing. Archonex fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 18:20
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Stanko-Prussian posted:i was very surprised when zhongli wasn't the "detonate all the geo constructs/petrified monsters in range" character because like everything about him seemed to yell that before he was released. Oh yeah, I'm thinking the moment Dendro comes out they're going to use it to do a massive overhaul on the elements system. Pyro's way too good, electro is still bugged with water,geo just seems underpowered since for some reason you only get two shields and they take damage at the same time Like why?
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Dec 7, 2020 18:20
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Radical posted:its pretty interesting to watch every little thing cause a meltdown about this game. i remember a period of like 6 months where every character added to honkai was basically awful, even if you whaled for their SSS or whatever they were mediocre at best and the community response was "thank god i get to save my gems." Genshin is interesting because it gives a fantastic first impression and it really is a good, engaging game in a lot of ways. But Mihoyo has made a lot of questionable design decisions and a lot of public relations own-goals and notably hasn't really been doing anything beyond lip service to address any of the real complaints people have. People don't like how little resin they get. They don't like how everything is gated behind resin. They don't like how many resources leveling a new character takes. The gacha rates are way lower than direct competitors. Mihoyo is a lot less generous then direct competitors. Some of the constellation choices seem predatory. On and on. When those things are not directly in the spotlight and things are going ok, like when 1.1 came out or the meteor event gave everyone a lot of resources, the rate of complaints quiets down a bit. But one one new thing prompts new complaints then all the things that have been generating latent animosity fuel that fire into a full meltdown. A month from now some other new system on the newly released mountain will be dumb or poorly implemented and the fact that Zhongli Wasn't Amazing will be just another voice added to the chorus of rage.
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Dec 7, 2020 18:26
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Does Childe reset his cooldown from his e if he has sac bow on? I do buy that they're making carry 4-set effects stronger in general this time around because right now they're mostly pretty weak compared to farming costs (4 piece thunderfury kind of sucks rear end and crimson witch is good on one character). But that screenshot was just weird, not including the artifact's art is sus. (I don't believe in this leak atm, but just for context: https://twitter.com/Nepnep_Impact/status/1335931970845630465) No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 18:27
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I'm confused where all this "zhongli is unusable trash" stuff is coming from when most tier lists I'm seeing from different languages all just put him in A or S tier.
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Dec 7, 2020 18:28
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Have you seen his SS tier eyeliner
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Dec 7, 2020 18:31
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I'm also highly suspicious of week 1 doomsaying about units considering people did the same exact poo poo for klee and childe and look how that turned out lol
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Dec 7, 2020 18:32
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SirKibbles posted:Oh yeah, I'm thinking the moment Dendro comes out they're going to use it to do a massive overhaul on the elements system. The resonance list is expandable. And it's basically an element version of the "team setup" system Honkai has. In Honkai the leader and team comp can determine all sorts of things, like stat buffs, new abilities appearing, etc, etc. So it seems likely we'll get new layouts eventually. Ibram Gaunt posted:I'm also highly suspicious of week 1 doomsaying about units considering people did the same exact poo poo for klee and childe and look how that turned out lol I'd just be content with them fixing his broken as gently caress energy generation to where he can reliably participate in providing energy to the team. Him having to leech energy off of other characters to use his burst (Which is absolutely S tier but is gimped by the fact that it literally takes forever to use with his own generation.) is the dumbest thing. Especially since it means you've got to run possibly as many as two slots in your team (One character that can build energy quickly to act as a generator and Zhong Li) to compensate for this. To make things worse, it makes him a dead weight for the rest of the team when it comes to energy generation and his main use as a defensive support too, since the hold variant of his skill doesn't reliably generate energy (if at all). Meaning you've got to constantly waste both time and the skill use itself by pressing variant of the skill to move the stele around to even get a rare trickle of energy as the fight flows around the field. Meaning you can't even always risk proccing the Jade Shield using the hold variant (Yet another reason why the C2 is predatory bullshit.) since it has a long cooldown. Which means you have to choose between having a giant stone dong maybe giving you energy once in a blue moon and actually having the Jade Shield up during more than a few fights. In practice the way he works essentially forces you to run someone like Bennett with Favonius to make him actually be able to make use of that 12 sec cooldown on his burst without having to worry about getting screwed by any number of factors. Archonex fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 18:32
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I'm confused where all this "zhongli is unusable trash" stuff is coming from when most tier lists I'm seeing from different languages all just put him in A or S tier. Because he isn't as good as Diluc and Venti and Diona all at once a notable number of Zhongli-havers are now grappling with the emotionally rich concept of Buyer's Remorse, perhaps for the first time, and instead of using this to become more wise and well-rounded people they've decided to see how far throwing constant unending shitfits over it will get them because that's just how we roll in TYOOL 2020
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Dec 7, 2020 18:35
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I don't think every character should be fully self sufficient I guess. synergy is the whole point of the combat system so Zhongli needing to rely on others to help his generation doesn't really seem like a bad thing.
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Dec 7, 2020 18:44
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Mihoyo said Zhongli is supposed to be a big beefy support guy with shields and HP, but his level up stat is Geo% and his spear is Atk%, which implies to me that either there was a big ol' fucky-wucky somewhere or they're full of poo poo. Zhongli is cool, but not good, as in AFAICT he doesn't excel at anything. He deals constant AoE damage from a big pillar, which is cool, but it's barely noticeable amounts, and doesn't generate a bunch of energy like you'd expect. He can make a shield, but it takes a couple seconds of standing there and doesn't do anything else (like Diona's shield that hits, cleanses, and buffs), and it's hard to rely on shields to help your play in general because you don't know how much they're gonna block, not even an unnumbered shieldlife bar or something. He can slam enemies with a meteor, which at least can deal okay damage, AND it stuns enemies... but only for three-ish seconds, and almost every other CC in the game is better at it by a good margin. People saying he needs huge DPS are full of poo poo, and people saying "There are four-stars better than him, four-stars people" are especially full of poo poo - having a fuzzy spread of utility over the character tiers is fine and desirable, the whole design is asymmetric for a reason, people are better or worse depending on what other characters you have in the team. But most - actually, all previous five-stars have had two things: a focus on something specific that needs less support from other characters than most or all four-stars, and a special neato bonus effect, not necessarily useful in combat. Venti's got big CC and a powerful vacuum, and can Revali's Gale. Keqing can easily do either physical or electro damage, and can do a sweet teleport. Mona has a decoy, and can Alex Mack her way across the sea. Etcetera, and yet Zhongli only has condition B: A neat pillar you can climb on and jump from and poo poo. He doesn't have anything he's noticeably good at, the stuff he's supposed to be good at according to Word of God isn't supported by his stats, and, as a sidenote, even if he was good as hell at shields that's still the most singleplayer effect possible. It helps your teammates only in the most indirect way, in that maybe you could do better with a shield and help the team win harder. Meanwhile, Mona and Venti are dragging the enemies to a central location, Klee's smashing shields AND lighting things on fire, even Keqing's setting out huge amounts of electro effect for you to react with. Definitely the weaker link there, but it's not as immeasurable as "that guy over there has a shield." interstitial edit: So it's reasonable for people to be thrown off by Zhongli's mechanical design, since it doesn't appear to fit with the apparent design ethos of prior five-stars. Maybe all that was a coincidence? Maybe they were leading with the coolest/most fleshed-out ideas they had first, and Zhongli here is just a guy that came out 3/4 baked? Maybe they're deliberately walking back? I dunno. Supposedly, some guy who works for Mihoyo in a chinese chat filled with people in the game industry said basically "Yeah, Zhongli isn't very good NOW, but just wait until a couple other characters release that will combo really well with him" Which from one perspective is fair, the combat's all about character/ability interactions, but from another is horseshit, because only about half the people with Zhongli are going to end up with this OTHER hypothetical mystery character, leaving them in (ha) the dirt. John Lee fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 18:46
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I don't think every character should be fully self sufficient I guess. synergy is the whole point of the combat system so Zhongli needing to rely on others to help his generation doesn't really seem like a bad thing. Do you have him? Because his generation is so low that he straight up appears to have bugged energy generation at times. To put it in perspective, you can drop a stele or hold the skill to generate a shield and he will sometimes generate literally gently caress all in the way of energy. Like zero. If something is coming in it's so small that it doesn't even register as ticking the burst meter up. Other times you'll get a slow trickle. Twice (I've mained him since I got him to test whether the people complaining about him are overreacting or not.) now i've had it suddenly skyrocket upwards by about half a bar out of nowhere. I haven't been able to identify a cause in any of those cases. Also, see John Lee's post about why this is problematic, among a host of other issues. Archonex fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 18:53
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Is having two Pyro characters as big of an advantage as it seems? Klee is one I play a lot but I'm not too fond of having another Pyro (lower level one) just taking up a spot to get the resonance because +25% damage seems kinda nuts but this also kind of forces me to have a character that is there just for the resonance buff instead of another element for support.
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Dec 7, 2020 18:56
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Archonex posted:Do you have him? Because his generation is so low that he straight up appears to have bugged energy generation at times. I do have him and just don't see it as big of a deal as you and other people do.
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Dec 7, 2020 19:00
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Stare-Out posted:Is having two Pyro characters as big of an advantage as it seems? Klee is one I play a lot but I'm not too fond of having another Pyro (lower level one) just taking up a spot to get the resonance because +25% damage seems kinda nuts but this also kind of forces me to have a character that is there just for the resonance buff instead of another element for support. The +25% damage is the same as all other forms of +% damage, calculated (additively) from your base damage (character stats+weapons), so it's not as big as it seems at all if you have decent artifacts with a +% attack. And of course, your +Atk feather artifact doesn't count as the base damage either, so it's not getting the boost. It's still noticeable, mind you, but not actually nuts.
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Dec 7, 2020 19:01
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Stare-Out posted:Is having two Pyro characters as big of an advantage as it seems? Klee is one I play a lot but I'm not too fond of having another Pyro (lower level one) just taking up a spot to get the resonance because +25% damage seems kinda nuts but this also kind of forces me to have a character that is there just for the resonance buff instead of another element for support. It's not actually 25% more damage afaik, that attack bonus is additive with your other +atk effects so if you already have +100% it's only a 12.5% increase effectively.
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Dec 7, 2020 19:01
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John Lee posted:The +25% damage is the same as all other forms of +% damage, calculated (additively) from your base damage (character stats+weapons), so it's not as big as it seems at all if you have decent artifacts with a +% attack. And of course, your +Atk feather artifact doesn't count as the base damage either, so it's not getting the boost. Hm, I thought that was the case but flat DMG does get quite a boost on my main DPS character (Fischl) as a result of the buff. I'm in the struggle phase of just having increased world lvl so I guess I stick with it until I feel like regular world mobs become less like damage sponges again. Osmosisch posted:It's not actually 25% more damage afaik, that attack bonus is additive with your other +atk effects so if you already have +100% it's only a 12.5% increase effectively. I have a lot of +Atk from artifacts so I guess I brought it on myself. 
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Dec 7, 2020 19:04
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How much are you all doing co-op that the "can't shield other co-op players" thing becomes relevant at all Like it's a bit frustrating how supporty "give a buff that persists through character swap" characters can't benefit others in multiplayer but... multiplayer seems barely relevant in this game. There's not really any co-op content that matters except the occasional event.
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Dec 7, 2020 19:18
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who are these people who are somehow high information enough to have strong opinions about zhongli's beta mechanics but low information enough to whale for a character without checking if they were good first
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Dec 7, 2020 19:20
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listen if they didn't have brainworms they wouldn't spend their hard-earned money gambling in a gacha game in the first place
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Dec 7, 2020 19:39
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Most of the handwringing of Zhongli is about people trying to force a playstyle on him and refusing to try one where he excels. He's not perfect, and that energy regen should be fixed. But a defensive/cc-based is a totally fine concept for a character, despite DPS-lords' insistence that survivability doesn't matter. I think the his main issues are not specific to him, but affect him most in the current roster:
Osmosisch posted:It's not actually 25% more damage afaik, that attack bonus is additive with your other +atk effects so if you already have +100% it's only a 12.5% increase effectively. Mostly, correct. It won't apply to your feather, so a little less than 12.5% if that's maxed out. Notably, your supports usually don't have as much ATK% invested in them, so it tends to make them a lot stronger relative to non-resonance. Still, ~10% more ATK on your carry and ~20% for the rest of your party is really good. Except for maybe Cryo, no other resonance comes close to being that good. Then there's the additional implication you're likely running two top tiers since 4/6 Pyros are. If Xinyan is received well, then that's 5/6 lol.
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Dec 7, 2020 19:44
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im going to predict now that geo is just a whale element and it'll pretty quickly be incredibly strong once they add more characters and synergies. it currently being the only element with a run of 5 star weapons that only work on geo characters makes me even more certain of this.
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Dec 7, 2020 19:49
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gandlethorpe posted:Most of the handwringing of Zhongli is about people trying to force a playstyle on him and refusing to try one where he excels. He's not perfect, and that energy regen should be fixed. But a defensive/cc-based is a totally fine concept for a character, despite DPS-lords' insistence that survivability doesn't matter. The low energy probably makes all those issues feel much worse too. You basically need to run another Geo to have non-poo poo energy and that's a lot to ask from a team especially for a support unit.
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Dec 7, 2020 19:52
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I’m just mad that Zhong Li doesn’t interact well at all with DPS Ning (unless someone that invested in him would like to learn me). Sick of Geo Traveller. Also how is Xinyan? I tried getting her but only got a bunch of chongs and Razors instead. Now I’m too close to 5* pity to get more.
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Dec 7, 2020 19:57
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Mang Tomas posted:I’m just mad that Zhong Li doesn’t interact well at all with DPS Ning (unless someone that invested in him would like to learn me). Sick of Geo Traveller. Ning is pretty self-sufficient so I just her without a second geo
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Dec 7, 2020 19:58
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:How much are you all doing co-op that the "can't shield other co-op players" thing becomes relevant at all Co-op makes the artifact domains much more manageable imo.
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Dec 7, 2020 20:00
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Zhongli's pillars let me hit bosses with Gust Surge, so he's great in co-op in my book.  BillyC posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/k8bzbb/zhongli_will_not_be_buffed_according_to_mihoyo/ Alleged employee posted:Is Diluc strong without Xingqiu and Chongyun? I sure hope that guy isn't on the balance team.Andrast posted:The low energy probably makes all those issues feel much worse too. You basically need to run another Geo to have non-poo poo energy and that's a lot to ask from a team especially for a support unit. It's worse than that. Looking at that energy generation chart malbogio posted earlier, between Ningguang's meh energy generation and Noelle's complete lack of it, Geo Traveler is really the only one up to the task.
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Dec 7, 2020 20:01
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Bloody Emissary posted:It's worse than that. Looking at that energy generation chart malbogio posted earlier, between Ningguang's meh energy generation and Noelle's complete lack of it, Geo Traveler is really the only one up to the task. Ning gets much better energy generation at C2 at least, but yeah without that I can see it being awful
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Dec 7, 2020 20:02
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some of the artifact domains pretty much demand co-op when you hit 45 if you've been slacking on getting your artifacts up to speed until then. the problem is that everyone else queueing for co-op is in the same boat, which means that if you're unlucky runs take forever and sometimes you get the person who insists on overloading in the fire domain or whatever. i certainly stopped doing co-op the instant i got strong enough to solo the artifact domains myself.
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Dec 7, 2020 20:03
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