|
Dawgstar posted:Who's the other Wolverine besides Laura? Is Jonathan the wolverine thats also a venom or the wolverine thats also a cyborg?
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 18:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 03:04 |
|
|
Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Is Jonathan the wolverine thats also a venom or the wolverine thats also a cyborg? He's the wolverine that's also a wolverine.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 18:26
|
|
|
Antifa Turkeesian posted:Yeah, I mean it's not even an allegory he's objecting to but just straight up saying that he won't accept a black character on the X-Men and the current ones should be replaced with the old WASP ones because Irish and Russian aren't white enough. Motherfucker literally writes 'go back to Africa.'
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 18:38
|
|
|
frodnonnag posted:He's the wolverine that's also a wolverine. If Marvel hadn't retconned it, Wolverine would also be the wolverine who is also a wolverine.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 18:44
|
|
|
Old Kentucky Shark posted:If Marvel hadn't retconned it, Wolverine would also be the wolverine who is also a wolverine. He could have been the Wolverine who was a wolverine but also a wolf-man because I guess there's no difference between the weasel family and dogs to some loving people.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 19:04
|
|
|
Gorgun is actually the perfect example of why I think a lot of readers are uncomfortable with Krakoa. Dude was like pure evil. He was a serial child murderer for christsakes. Like he murdered a child just because he knew it would piss of Logan so he could do Hand shenanigans to him, and murdered Ares kid for a sword. But Krakoa says because of his race/species/whatever mutants are that thats fine. Race trumps morality. Gorgon gets a spot in the queue for eternal life over anyone else because of his race. I don't see how anyone on the X-Men could be okay with that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 19:18
|
|
|
Look, part of Krakoa is some pretty radical ideas around restorative justice.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 19:20
|
|
|
WaffleZombie posted:It also gets mentioned in the text page in Hellions. Which I read that first and just thought, "Huh, guess I should have read X-Factor first, that must be where it happened". But nope, X-Factor doesn't show it either. Oh, you're absolutely right, I just overlooked it. Thank you for pointing it out!
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 19:39
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:Look, part of Krakoa is some pretty radical ideas around restorative justice. Unless you're Sabretooth and then it's down the hole!
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 19:39
|
|
|
I like the idea of him being the guy that everyone is sick of. Aren't we expecting him to run a top secret exiles team? I wonder if there are other Moira's Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Dec 7, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 19:52
|
|
|
moiras who appeared in alternate realities were on their first lives, and thus unaware they were mutants. the only one i can think of off hand is the nazi from early excalibur, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 20:05
|
|
|
danbanana posted:He could have been the Wolverine who was a wolverine but also a wolf-man because I guess there's no difference between the weasel family and dogs to some loving people. I’m right at this point in reading the old comics, and the leprechauns that live in Banshee’s ancestral castle straight-up tell Wolverine that he’s a wolverine shaped like a human being, which they implicitly know because they’re magical, although they do no other magic and are powerless to resist being held hostage by one guy with a stick.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 20:35
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/TiniHoward/status/1336025701799976961?s=20
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 20:36
|
|
|
Antifa Turkeesian posted:I’m right at this point in reading the old comics, and the leprechauns that live in Banshee’s ancestral castle straight-up tell Wolverine that he’s a wolverine shaped like a human being, which they implicitly know because they’re magical, although they do no other magic and are powerless to resist being held hostage by one guy with a stick. But they also think his real name is Logan so clearly they're a part of Weapon X's long-game gaslighting of Wolvie. Never trust random leprechauns, only the leprechauns you have an established rapport with, kids.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 20:39
|
|
|
Here's the article Tini Howard was talking about. https://aiptcomics.com/2020/12/07/x-men-monday-86-jonathan-hickman/
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 20:46
|
|
|
I like how you can tell how annoyed Hickman is at what Slott did with Franklin.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 21:25
|
|
|
Yeah, he definitely had a plan for him that he's going to have to change lol. It's still really weird that we got a whole miniseries about how he's a mutant and even if he loses his powers, will still be one and will always be welcome on Krakoa with the same editor as Slott deciding that no, he was never a mutant, actually.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 21:46
|
|
|
Has a writer just literally ignored another current writer before? Not "didn't get the memo" and wrote something different, not "retcon it after the run is over", just flat out "This is stupid I'm not acknowledging it happened" to a currently running writer? Not that I think he should, it just got me going down a hole. With all the stupid poo poo and all the years I feel like it had to have happened a few times, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 21:55
|
|
|
Mulva posted:Has a writer just literally ignored another current writer before? Not "didn't get the memo" and wrote something different, not "retcon it after the run is over", just flat out "This is stupid I'm not acknowledging it happened" to a currently running writer? Byrne would famously undo poo poo that Claremont did. Literally covered in the Claremont Run today. https://twitter.com/ClaremontRun/status/1335930440058888192?s=19 Either Hickman is putting on a front here or Slott is a giant piece of poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 21:59
|
|
|
danbanana posted:Either Hickman is putting on a front here or Slott is a giant piece of poo poo. While it's not impossible the first scenario is real, the second one definitely is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 22:03
|
|
|
Mulva posted:Has a writer just literally ignored another current writer before? Not "didn't get the memo" and wrote something different, not "retcon it after the run is over", just flat out "This is stupid I'm not acknowledging it happened" to a currently running writer?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 22:04
|
|
|
I don't think Hickman can complain too much after one of his Marvel plots killed the multiverse, ending everyone's books and killing off whatever everyone else had planned. That said I'm sure that what Hickman had planned for Franklin would have been better than what Slott has planned given their track records.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 22:07
|
|
|
Starsnostars posted:I don't think Hickman can complain too much after one of his Marvel plots killed the multiverse, ending everyone's books and killing off whatever everyone else had planned. I'm not sure you know if that was Hickman’s thing or editorial mandate to build to the next big relaunch. It's hard to look at Secret Wars and not think that was Marvel's way to end the failing Ultimate line while getting its most popular character placed in 616.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 22:15
|
|
|
At the time Hickman spoke about wanting all the other books in the line to change as a result of his plot because of how much he liked when Age of Apocalypse had done the same thing. Even if there wasn't a line wide reboot following it Secret Wars was aiming to be disruptive to what other writers were planning.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
Mulva posted:Has a writer just literally ignored another current writer before? Not "didn't get the memo" and wrote something different, not "retcon it after the run is over", just flat out "This is stupid I'm not acknowledging it happened" to a currently running writer? The Spider-Man newspaper strip responded to the 2009 magical devil divorce that retroactively made Spider-Man not married to Mary Jane by first doing an extended flashback to the period when they were dating (it was a new story, but the first panel was text stating that the story takes places in the past) and then ended that story by having them wake up together in bed with Peter saying he had the strangest dream, with the last panel saying something like, "Due to your overwhelming demands, Peter and Mary Jane will stay married forever, as they should be!" Supposedly Stan was writing the comic at that time, but it was either his brother-in-law or Roy Thomas who were writing the strip by then.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2020 23:39
|
|
|
Mulva posted:Has a writer just literally ignored another current writer before? Not "didn't get the memo" and wrote something different, not "retcon it after the run is over", just flat out "This is stupid I'm not acknowledging it happened" to a currently running writer? Come to think of it, are there any popular characters that were created because the writer wasn't allowed to use a planned character at the last minute over at Marvel? I know that's how DC got two separate carbon copies on Constantine running around.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 00:53
|
|
|
Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Come to think of it, are there any popular characters that were created because the writer wasn't allowed to use a planned character at the last minute over at Marvel? I know that's how DC got two separate carbon copies on Constantine running around. Theoretically the reason Grant Morrison gave Emma Frost her diamond powers was because he wanted a heavy and wasn't allowed to bring Colossus back to life. Bendis' original pitch for Alias would have had Spider-Woman/Jessica Drew starring in it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 00:59
|
|
|
Saoshyant posted:While it's not impossible the first scenario is real, the second one definitely is. So does Slott have some blackmail material on someone high up in Disney or something? Just a few weeks ago there was that whole Marvel 616 documentary thing about and how it laughs off that he's late on a lot of things and effectively has people ghostwrite a lot of his issues. Now if you're reading between the lines of this new interview, you're telling me that the architect behind the entire X-Men line got a central point (you can argue the size) of his plan vetoed by the writer of a single comic? Like why didn't the editors in charge defer to Hickman in this case? And I'm trying to even justify this beyond the fact that the opinion of SA is largely Hickman rules and Slott sucks. This isn't someone retconning a story a year later because they feel like it, it's actively changing an ongoing narrative that isn't anywhere near done. It just seems crazy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 01:47
|
|
|
I understand the argument that the guy in charge of writing Fantastic Four should be the one who determines what happens to Franklin Richards.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 01:49
|
|
|
Slott mentioned on Twitter that he didn't want to write "the Fantastic Four and the boy who can do anything", he wanted to write the Fantastic Four, and I've never been less impressed. Either he never read Hickman's FF run, or he's inexcusably unimaginative, because I don't know how anyone could read Franklin resurrecting Galactus as his herald and not want to at least ATTEMPT to top that in some way. It reminds me of the time when Slott's She-Hulk run took a full issue detour to let us know that, actually, it was an alternate reality Jen who slept with the Juggernaut some time before, not the REAL Jen. The guy just seems fiendishly possessive of the toys in the toybox.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 01:59
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:I understand the argument that the guy in charge of writing Fantastic Four should be the one who determines what happens to Franklin Richards. I'd understand that if there wasn't a highly promoted series starring both groups that resolved with Franklin siding with the X-Men. That had to have been agreed upon by both editorial groups, so this poo poo happening just a couple months later is loving bizarre. It's so weird that I'm still partially convinced it's a work.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 02:02
|
|
|
Given how late Slott is with all his scripts I wonder how far in advance he'd actually thought of this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 02:04
|
|
|
Vindicator posted:Slott mentioned on Twitter that he didn't want to write "the Fantastic Four and the boy who can do anything", he wanted to write the Fantastic Four, and I've never been less impressed. I stopped after issue 15 and I didn't hate teen angst Franklin. But his biggest sin was turning Val into a boy-crushing ditz and that was as blatant of misunderstanding a character as I can think of. But yeah... That boy who can do anything starred in a lot of great stories over the years. If you can't think of ways to use him, maybe you aren't the right person to use him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 02:06
|
|
|
Vindicator posted:
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 02:06
|
|
|
Vindicator posted:Either he never read Hickman's FF run, or he's inexcusably unimaginative, because I don't know how anyone could read Franklin resurrecting Galactus as his herald and not want to at least ATTEMPT to top that in some way. It reminds me of the time when Slott's She-Hulk run took a full issue detour to let us know that, actually, it was an alternate reality Jen who slept with the Juggernaut some time before, not the REAL Jen. The guy just seems fiendishly possessive of the toys in the toybox. Yeah, it's funny this topic comes at the same time as we were just discussing all the petty poo poo John Byrne used to pull on Claremont (and sort of vice-versa). AFAIK, there's lots of parallels between that pathetic piece of poo poo Byrne and Slott. If Marvel's EIC would realize this before the problem becomes bigger, there's tons of upcoming writers out there more than willing to do Slott's job better than he could ever hope. Antifa Turkeesian posted:Supposedly Stan was writing the comic at that time, but it was either his brother-in-law or Roy Thomas who were writing the strip by then. It was Roy Thomas with the approval of Stan Lee. You can see where both writers stood when it comes to Peter selling his 20+ year old marriage to Satan because that would make him more relatable. Saoshyant fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Dec 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 03:00
|
|
|
danbanana posted:I stopped after issue 15 and I didn't hate teen angst Franklin. But his biggest sin was turning Val into a boy-crushing ditz and that was as blatant of misunderstanding a character as I can think of. I mean, it was only the one boy and it was pretty clearly set up as a gag about how that boy was like Namor, the Franklin thing is a much bigger deal. Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Come to think of it, are there any popular characters that were created because the writer wasn't allowed to use a planned character at the last minute over at Marvel? I know that's how DC got two separate carbon copies on Constantine running around. Well I mean rather infamously recently the Inhumans basically became substitute mutants because Disney still didn't have film rights for the X-Men and there were a whole crop of them invented*. Like, that was never stated but we all know what the gently caress's up. In an alternate world where Disney got the X-Men rights sooner, Ms. Marvel would totally be a mutant. *And even if no one else liked them, I will die on the hill that those were some good-rear end books. edit: and on that same note, even though it's not creating new characters, Disney/Marvel shunning the X-Men meant that a lot of other (conveniently MCU related) characters got to make their fighting game debut in Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Dec 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 03:01
|
|
|
danbanana posted:Byrne would famously undo poo poo that Claremont did. Literally covered in the Claremont Run today. This coming from that is great, though https://twitter.com/claremontrun/status/1335930455615541248?s=21 Legit A+ Doom here.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 03:07
|
|
|
Saoshyant posted:Yeah, it's funny this topic comes at the same time as we were just discussing all the petty poo poo John Byrne used to pull on Claremont (and sort of vice-versa). AFAIK, there's lots of parallels between that pathetic piece of poo poo Byrne and Slott. If Marvel's EIC would realize this before the problem becomes bigger, there's tons of upcoming writers out there more than willing to do Slott's job better than he could ever hope. Slott's been writing Marvel books regularly since like 2003, at what point does it "become bigger"? I think there's a lot of projection going on here onto the motives and feelings of everyone involved in this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 03:17
|
|
|
I don't think Slott depowered Franklin just to gently caress with Hickman's X-Men plans. He just didn't want to write Franklin with powers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 03:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 03:04 |
|
|
Codependent Poster posted:I like how you can tell how annoyed Hickman is at what Slott did with Franklin. Where has he spoken about it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 03:31
|
|
