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HD DAD posted:I’m just tired of big, season-long puzzle boxes. It was fantastically novel in the early 2000s, and then pretty much standard in the early-to-mid 2010s. Now it’s just...it feels outdated. Big, “epic” shows just tire me out now. That market is just beyond saturated, and I find myself just wanting to watch Derry Girls on repeat instead of a Discovery that’s weirdly trying to ape Moffat-era Doctor Who. i think there's something to a cast and crew really "geling" when they're all having fun and with the past season production drama and reportedly toxic season 2 writer's room, they're probably only just now getting there - hopefully this season ends strong and they can keep the momentum going in season 4 since there aren't any big production shakeups for the first time during the show's run.
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Dec 8, 2020 00:19
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Yvonmukluk posted:And then all the people they helped could show up when the big bad or whoever Starfleet HQ has been hidden from needs help. And then it turns out the real Federation was the friends they made along the way
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Dec 8, 2020 00:21
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Did the people in charge of Disco just really not like beam phasers or something? They just totally took that out of Trek. Combat looks increasingly like Star Wars now.
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Dec 8, 2020 00:37
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Drink-Mix Man posted:And then it turns out the real Federation was the friends they made along the way Literally the foundation of the Federation. Archer and Shran really hit it off for example, I'd say that is the real start of the federation. And to be clear, while Sisko was The Emissary it was handled real well for several seasons. Especially to do with the ensemble around him like Kira being just short of kissing his feet in worship, Kai(?) Winn(?) trying to usurp his divine authority and Dax among many to keep him grounded.
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Dec 8, 2020 00:39
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MariusLecter posted:Literally the foundation of the Federation. Archer and Shran really hit it off for example, I'd say that is the real start of the federation.
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Dec 8, 2020 00:41
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Also, it came up over and over again in DS9 about how being the Emissary was such a pain for so many people in Sisko's life.
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Dec 8, 2020 02:23
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The issue is, to me, that Michael does the work of a Riker and Picard duo. It's rare that both of those two would be beaming down together - they'd normally have one on the Enterprise, while the other did the Away Team Torture Of The Week. It's just a lot of screentime when there's other people doing ... not much the rest of the time. Saru, Stamets, Georgiou and Tilly are just kind of hanging out while Michael does it all. Just seems a waste of a good cast.
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Dec 8, 2020 02:26
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Mal-3 posted:Well part of that is that they didn't focus on Sisko being Literal Space Jesus every other goddamn episode, and they had the room to focus on things other than the season-wide A plot. Yeah, the real thing is like, in a 26 episode season of DS9, you could charitably say maybe 5 at most were episodes that were really Sisko centric. He's present in most but in a great deal he doesn't have more than a couple lines at the start or end of the episode. Most tend to pick a combination of 2-4 of the whole cast to focus on. Many eps are almost complete solo focuses on other characters entirely: Any "O'Brien Must Suffer" ep, Dax and her old Klingon friends, Ferengi eps, Kira and Bajoran resistance/Cardassian occupation aftershocks (There were some incredibly good ones here), Garak and Bashir adventures, etc. Then the actual real plot critical arcs covering Dominion encounters, Maquis, the Klingon/Cardassian war and changeling infiltrators, etc end up being actually great ensemble encounters because everyone gets a part to play, and they're all really known personalities that we've seen in situations other than "Responding to an order on the bridge with Aye, Sir." Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Dec 8, 2020 |
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Dec 8, 2020 02:59
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MariusLecter posted:Literally the foundation of the Federation. Archer and Shran really hit it off for example, I'd say that is the real start of the federation. they rarely visited a prophets or emissary episode without at least one main character getting a real hard look at some component of their personality, or without the kai setting up some genuine political power play, which probably plays into it a lot. sisko's transformation over seven seasons from hard skeptic about the prophets to begrudging recipient of their assistance to demanding it to full believer is also totally coherent. at no point do you think "wait no, why is he happy about this when he was mad before" because they made sure every turn was set prior the conflict between kira and sisko being a love-hate thing where her distaste of an occupying force sours her impression of the federation until season 3 or is also a really good dynamic that wouldnt be as powerful or believable if he wasnt in the position he is Verviticus fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Dec 8, 2020 |
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Dec 8, 2020 04:02
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I feel sometimes like Discovery is the one show that would actually benefit from the finale being "it was all a dream by the protagonist." "Dream". Nice word for "idiot fever acid trip"
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Dec 8, 2020 08:52
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piratepilates posted:I mean technically all of the TOS movies, TNG, and VOY were just redresses of the same set. It was the same studio, same floorplan, same hallways that just got modified over and over again for decades. I really miss that aspect of the shoes and movies where they all really felt like part of the same universe design wise. I don't mind things like fancy displays and more complex set lighting in 23rd century Discovery, but if I was in charge of a 23rd/24th century show I think I would lay down a rule of using that classic Stage 9 stage layout as a base. Adapt it and change whatever you want that there's budget for, but be forced to think of it as having that shared underlying design philosophy.
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Dec 8, 2020 11:18
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Senor Tron posted:I really miss that aspect of the shoes and movies where they all really felt like part of the same universe design wise. I think this is another thing that makes lower decks feel better, it's so clearly "this is star trek" visually.
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Dec 8, 2020 13:25
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Taear posted:I think this is another thing that makes lower decks feel better, it's so clearly "this is star trek" visually. I find myself constantly waffling back and forth between “Star Trek should be allowed to evolve visually past TNG/DS9/VOY/Nemesis” and “Star Trek should look like Star Trek”, because Discovery sure as poo poo doesn’t look like Star Trek to me, visually at least. Picard threads that needle a little better, but doesn’t quite get it right either. Lower Decks, on the other hand, nails it completely. And it’s all thanks to bringing Michael and Denise Okuda back into the fold.
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Dec 8, 2020 14:14
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So has anyone made that Simpson's meme of Homer saying "To alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" but replaced it with Burnham?
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Dec 8, 2020 14:15
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Eighties ZomCom posted:So has anyone made that Simpson's meme of Homer saying "To alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" but replaced it with Burnham? Burnham already has a whole show dedicated to her, no need to amplify it
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Dec 8, 2020 14:51
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Eighties ZomCom posted:So has anyone made that Simpson's meme of Homer saying "To alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" but replaced it with Burnham? Honestly I think the most egregious is the second episode of this season, where the crew of Discovery get to have an episode almost entirely to themselves to introduce them to a "new" audience but right at the end they have to completely forget Discovery has phasers to melt ice with so they can be saved by Michael.
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Dec 8, 2020 15:12
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nine-gear crow posted:I find myself constantly waffling back and forth between “Star Trek should be allowed to evolve visually past TNG/DS9/VOY/Nemesis” and “Star Trek should look like Star Trek”, because Discovery sure as poo poo doesn’t look like Star Trek to me, visually at least. Picard threads that needle a little better, but doesn’t quite get it right either. I would love if the 32nd Century was just insane, looking like straight up magic to us and to the crew of the Discovery. Remember, this would be like if Vikings in a longboat sailed up to present day Manhattan. They should be completely blown away. Picard and Lower Decks should absolutely have the same look as the other 24th Century shows, though. Everything is becoming a mishmash of sameness. I miss beam weapons, too.
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Dec 8, 2020 15:18
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Picard should have an evolved look of the 24th century shows. Take what was and create an evolution on it that's still in the same family.
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Dec 8, 2020 15:23
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Discovery just feels like generic sci-fi with the same names as stuff we're used to. That isn't saying specifically that it's bad (it's bad for other reasons) but at least Lower Decks is made by someone who loves star trek. I feel like Mandalorian, Rebels and Clone Wars when compared to Solo have that same air. You've got someone writing a show because they want to write that show, they WANT to be in that universe and on the other hand someone doing it because they've been made to do it. Taear fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Dec 8, 2020 |
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Dec 8, 2020 15:51
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While I agree with the general sentiment, Kasdan's son was hyped to write Solo. He just wasn't capable of pulling it off.
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Dec 8, 2020 16:01
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Eighties ZomCom posted:So has anyone made that Simpson's meme of Homer saying "To alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" but replaced it with Burnham?
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Dec 8, 2020 16:02
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feedmyleg posted:While I agree with the general sentiment, Kasdan's son was hyped to write Solo. He just wasn't capable of pulling it off. Wasn't it that he was given it as a project though, not that it was his baby? I get he was excited to write it when he was given it but he didn't come to Disney and say "I really want to do a film about Solo" Like with Lower Decks that guy really REALLY wanted to do a star trek comedy but Discovery was more "Hey we want more star trek get someone to do one"
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Dec 8, 2020 16:25
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Yeah but if that's your criteria then 99% of movies and TV shows "have that same air." It's refreshing when it ends up happening, but it's not a realistic expectation to have.
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Dec 8, 2020 16:32
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MikeJF posted:Picard should have an evolved look of the 24th century shows. Take what was and create an evolution on it that's still in the same family. I agree, I said it poorly. Make it roughly as far advanced from Nemesis as Nemesis was from season 1 of TNG, but it shouldn't be drastically different.
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Dec 8, 2020 16:47
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Although ideally better than Nemesis's prediction design. Much better.
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Dec 8, 2020 16:56
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MichiganCubbie posted:Picard and Lower Decks should absolutely have the same look as the other 24th Century shows, though. They could get a lot of mileage out of "same design, but bigger and more expensive." Just keep the old design language but use that fancy budget to show off all the navigation whales and giant superstructures and robots and things that were just implied but impractical to shoot back in the 90's.
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Dec 8, 2020 17:07
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MichiganCubbie posted:I would love if the 32nd Century was just insane, looking like straight up magic to us and to the crew of the Discovery. Remember, this would be like if Vikings in a longboat sailed up to present day Manhattan. They should be completely blown away. This was kind of a disappointment to me. I get the sense they were afraid to make too many changes and wanted to reign things in to keep them accessible, but in my view this was the time it actually made the most sense to go apeshit and reinvent everything.
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Dec 8, 2020 17:12
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Dec 8, 2020 17:27
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Drink-Mix Man posted:This was kind of a disappointment to me. I get the sense they were afraid to make too many changes and wanted to reign things in to keep them accessible, but in my view this was the time it actually made the most sense to go apeshit and reinvent everything.
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Dec 8, 2020 18:03
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feedmyleg posted:Yeah but if that's your criteria then 99% of movies and TV shows "have that same air." It's refreshing when it ends up happening, but it's not a realistic expectation to have. I disagree, this is more about resurrecting existing properties. There's a difference between you saying "Write me a police procedural" and "I need a star trek, make it again". The former is just a framework the latter is an existing world.
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Dec 8, 2020 18:14
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Disagreed. The vast majority of sequels, remakes, and reboots aren't passion projects from the creators or from a hungry next generation of filmmakers. They're for-hire gigs run by producers to further the franchise.
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Dec 8, 2020 18:22
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FlamingLiberal posted:It doesn’t even look as crazy as the 31st century we saw on Enterprise. It doesn't even look as crazy as the 23rd century we saw on Discovery!
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Dec 8, 2020 19:08
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feedmyleg posted:Disagreed. The vast majority of sequels, remakes, and reboots aren't passion projects from the creators or from a hungry next generation of filmmakers. They're for-hire gigs run by producers to further the franchise. Yea and that's why they're rubbish. Specifically we're talking returning to something after a long time. While I'd say Bladerunner's sequel was a great return because it was a passion project.
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Dec 8, 2020 19:16
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MichiganCubbie posted:I would love if the 32nd Century was just insane, looking like straight up magic to us and to the crew of the Discovery. Remember, this would be like if Vikings in a longboat sailed up to present day Manhattan. They should be completely blown away. I'm fairly ok with this. Sure, a viking would be lost in the world today, but most of that progress happened in the last few centuries. Someone from 200ad Europe would be shocked at how far things had fallen by 1200ad. Maybe Warp Drive / Replicators / Transporters / Phasers is just what Antimatter can do?
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Dec 8, 2020 19:22
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I really hate the argument that a piece of franchise media is bad because its producers weren't big enough fans of the franchise. There's been plenty of great stuff made by guns for hire and a lot of utter poo poo made by fans. Discovery sucks because it's unimaginative and humorless, not because its producers didn't watch enough TNG growing up.
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Dec 8, 2020 20:10
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Inferior posted:I really hate the argument that a piece of franchise media is bad because its producers weren't big enough fans of the franchise. There's been plenty of great stuff made by guns for hire and a lot of utter poo poo made by fans. Discovery sucks because it's unimaginative and humorless, not because its producers didn't watch enough TNG growing up. They didn't even prepare for their jobs by watching relevant stuff, not because they didn't watch it at ~age~
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Dec 8, 2020 20:18
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MichiganCubbie posted:I would love if the 32nd Century was just insane, looking like straight up magic to us and to the crew of the Discovery. Remember, this would be like if Vikings in a longboat sailed up to present day Manhattan. They should be completely blown away. I thought this was where they were going with Book being a space Druid, but no, he’s just an alien with some level of psychic powers. The programmable matter is really the only thing that’s superfuture. Floating nacelles and the Federation bubble are cool but not that far past the TNG era.
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Dec 8, 2020 20:19
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I'm not too bothered by the tech in 31st century thing. I just figure, once you have the baseline tech the jumps or advances are more easily navigated. I can imagine the adjustment to pre television life to a TV in your home was massive, but the jump to VCR technology was just...big. the jump from VCR to dvd technology was less big, from dvd to blue ray smaller still. Landline phone to phone in your car - massive jump. Phone in your car to mobile in your pocket, big jump. Mobile phone to smart phone, massive jump. Smart phone type one to iPhone of today, big jump .. you get the picture. Once the tech is there it's tinkering from there on in.
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Dec 8, 2020 21:30
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the control panels just being black ooze makes even less sense than the blinking chicklets of TOS
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Dec 8, 2020 21:41
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lol @ the idea of controls making sense in any star trek. My favorite part of TNG / VOY / DS9 was everyone doing complicated work on single 20cm by 20cm screens.
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Dec 8, 2020 21:50
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