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I like the married monsters
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Dec 3, 2020 12:25
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oh jay posted:Dr. Genus, the only one in the series that had actually tried to define what a monster is, says that genetically modified things are monsters. And also aliens and other non-human creatures like the deep-sea folks are monsters too. It's belief/willpower. Tank Top believes he get his power from the Tank Top. Superalloy believes he just trained constantly and that it's perfectly normal to do the things he does, he does it because he put a lot of effort. Saitama believes he got his power from the training because he's dumb as gently caress. Metal Bat believes he's a shounen hero. Genos is trying to be logical and analyze things, trying to make sense of it, and he has no special powers unrelated to his mechanical body. All the monsters in turn gave in to their obsessions and got Akira'd by it. There's a case in that a constant joke is how most monsters that were humans before had some obsession or traumatic event - someone got trapped in a Phoenix costume, someone couldn't get a spider out of their ear, someone ate too much crab. Saitama comes close to figuring this out as a joke in one of the OVAs. The heroes/humans on the other hand are for the most part gradually progressing based on their dedication. Child Emperor's workout ends up giving him a "muscle mass and body development" that is unreasonably high - far, far higher than a bear's, even though he logically presumes to have pretty low stats. On the other hand the heroes that look past that point of obsession are candidates for fans to speculate about whether they're monsters or not. Fans speculate about Watchdog Man but even the manga jokes about it, "I couldn't even tell who the monster was in that fight." On the subject of willpower, there are hints scattered over the manga. The three crows lost their sense of self/identity because they were weak-willed. Psykos says that Monsters have lust for violence, and that guy on the tournament goes on clinically about how the "barriers on behavioral choices are being removed" and "the morals that I had before have been completely erased." when he becomes a Monster. The Ninjas who trained had to endure a horrifying regime, so they on the other hand have a lot of mental control. "After monsterization it's possible to restrain oneself back into human-shape as long as you have full control of the body. Apparently, normal civilians go berserk with rage, or even become pure beasts, but for someone who trained in our village this should be no big deal." The Monsters who are just different species or aliens don't follow this pattern (Armored Gorilla being a good example). Genus sort of spells it out. "All living beings exist within certain limits, if one overdoes it, one's very own power will just damage itself. Or else one's own self may be lost, and what will be left is a rampaging beast-like monster." Throughout the entire manga - seriously, it's a concept repeated ad nauseum - monsters are referred to having an explosive growth. "The monsters come from an explosion of frustration, humans who can get no satisfaction, who lust for transformation, do so out of psychological issues, or attachments to vices" and immediately distinguishes "espers, cyborgs, and the regular humans who nurture that power through hard work or instinctively". Zombie man who's extremely logical is as annoyed at Genus' explanation as Genos is at Saitama's workout. So basically they're all the same, but whether you're having an explosive growth of frustration, or if you are nurturing it like most heroes do. Reminds me a lot of Claymore, where once you Awaken you can no longer improve, so the Monsters trying to turn other humans into Monsters want them to grow as powerful as they can before they awaken. Elentor fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Dec 3, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2020 13:49
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What I'm trying to say is, tag yourself I would become Devil Long Hair
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Dec 3, 2020 14:06
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Man my feelings towards Darkshine are so confused. When he was first introduced, it was "Holy poo poo Murata, really?" But that was during the introduction with the other heroes that were also extreme examples of a singular trait, maybe it was a throwaway so I just moved past it. Then we get the monster arc and you get to know him more. He is incredibly confident, kind, tries to build others up. I am liking this development and showing of character. He is just consistently cool as hell. The the Garou fight. This is some whiplash. I imagine all the webcomic readers have been rubbing their hands go "hehehehe" waiting for this reveal, similar to Game of Thrones readers waiting for the Red Wedding episode. The character development of Darkshine being a wimp and then training himself up, but still being a scared, defenseless child, and the realization of that? That's some pretty good storytelling and background development. I like that! But then I'm leaving out the elephant in the room. The reveal that he is just a Japanese bodybuilder who bronzed himself so much he looks like a stereotyped black man. I get the joke, it is a twist, it follows the intense caricatures of the comic, but that's it and it takes so much away. It's a one note joke that transformed a very problematic black character who was getting some really good character development into a one note joke. And took away the only black character. So on the one hand you've fake removed the problematic representation of a muscular black man (the whole intent was to make him look like a caricatured black man, I am certain if they wanted to draw an obviously bronzed muscle builder they would look nothing alike) but they've given a flimsy rear end excuse for pedants to say "Well ackshually he is a Japanese bronzed body builder so it isn't problematic". He is still drawn this way! You've still got the other characters referring to him as darkie and blacky! I wouldn't be surprised if one of the other Monster Association cadre that Darkshine has to fight is a monsterized minstrel show. Now he is japanese, so all these cool character developments aren't helping redeem the incredibly problematic caricature! All for a single joke. So this latest issue just bothers me more.
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Dec 3, 2020 16:48
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Yeah I agree with all of this. Darkshine is just so bizarrely inexplicable to me. A character that is fully depicted as a black man, to the point that no one would have any reason to doubt that fact. Until over 100 chapters into the series, we find out he's actually a pale skinned (Japanese??) guy. And it's never remarked upon in any way. If it wasn't for reading this thread, I don't think I would have ever made the connection between body building bronzing and his dark skin. I don't know if I'm missing something, or it's some strange Japanese thing, or what. If it is actually a deliberate joke, then I really don't get it.
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Dec 3, 2020 19:01
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You can both criticise something for its flaws and still enjoy it. Racism and misogyny just comes with the territory of consuming Japanese pop culture (hell, pop culture in general). It's fine to see it as racist and move on. Not like we're paying for these scans anyway. I did find it disappointing (weirdly) that Darkshine isn't even black.... Are there even any black heroes? Though I'm kind of glad there aren't.
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Dec 3, 2020 19:03
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Bucswabe posted:If it wasn't for reading this thread, I don't think I would have ever made the connection between body building bronzing and his dark skin. I don't know if I'm missing something, or it's some strange Japanese thing, or what. If it is actually a deliberate joke, then I really don't get it.  It's not a japanese exclusive practice it's a legitimate facet of bodybuilding competitions. Obviously this doesn't account for the face of Darkshine which I think is more a kinnikuman reference as well than an attempt at blackface. But the combination of traits doesn't do that interpretation any favors for most western readers.
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Dec 3, 2020 19:39
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Brought To You By posted:
You will never convince me that those heads aren't just photoshopped onto those bodies. --- AfricanBootyShine posted:I did find it disappointing (weirdly) that Darkshine isn't even black.... Are there even any black heroes? Though I'm kind of glad there aren't. Even heavily flawed representation is representation (see: Barrett in Final Fantasy VII), and this whole thing has been one long sigh that cannot be punctuated with "hey, at least there's a black character." I, unfortunately, agree with the last bit.
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Dec 3, 2020 20:36
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Yeah but they didn't intend to be racist and obviously that absolves them of all responsibility with regards to their contribution to racist caricatures and subrepresentation
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Dec 3, 2020 20:38
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lol I said that intent matters, not that it absolves creators of any wrongdoing. It matters in the sense that I am comfortable reading translations that are produced by someone who made an honest mistake and takes steps to correct them but I am not comfortable consuming anything by someone who intentionally uses slurs to be a racist rear end in a top hat. Case in point, obviously there's something that feels very wrong about Darkshine from a Western perspective and yet it doesn't seem like anyone in this thread is ready to boycott OPM over it so clearly intent matters there too. If Darkshine were constantly obsessing over fried chicken etc I think it would be a fairly evident choice to never read an OPM issue ever again, but here we are in this really uncomfortable middle ground where we are struggling to reconcile how Darkshine is portrayed. How much we are willing to forgive ONE for Darkshine has a lot to do with context - such as how much leeway we are willing to give Japanese creators when it comes to race naivete or whether or not there is a pattern of behavior from ONE here (PPP is not a good look either, for example). For all the things about Darkshine that feel icky and wrong I'm at least glad that his face-type has been shown on several light-skinned characters and that in Darkshine's flashback his face still looked that way when he was light-skinned. He didn't entirely morph into a black charicature - he had some of those features all along.
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Dec 3, 2020 20:52
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Prowler posted:You will never convince me that those heads aren't just photoshopped onto those bodies.    This is the best one though. Like, it's just a fascinating practice to me. Doubly so because you can use a dollar store paint roller to help boost your appeal for the judges.
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Dec 3, 2020 21:07
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I think those images just highlight the problem TBH -- Darkshine's problem isn't his body, it's his face
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Dec 3, 2020 21:11
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TheKingofSprings posted:I think those images just highlight the problem TBH -- Darkshine's problem isn't his body, it's his face Yeah, this is the actual thing. If the dude looked like a Japanese dude with a ridiculous bodybuilder body, that would be one thing, but his face is still a racist caricature of a black dude.
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Dec 3, 2020 21:19
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Super Rad posted:
Yea it is that weird middle ground that is so frustrating. If you write a problematic character early on in the story and down the line you want to fix the problem you have the choice to sideline/disappear them (Jar Jar Binks/Rose from Star Wars for example), or work on the character to flesh them out so they are not so problematic. With Darkshine it seemed to be the latter, he was getting better and I honestly like him. He gets all this great development but then they sideline the problematic element of the black caricature by showing a flashback that he isn't black. While I know the intention is for it to be a joke, but it reads more like trying to handwave away the issue. So trying to address the one dimensional offensive stereotype by fleshing out the character, then saying the stereotype actually doesn't apply is confusing and half cocked. At this point in writing I tried to draw a similarity between PPP and Darkshine but kept deleting and rewriting it because I couldn't really nuance it out enough to be coherent and respectful enough for me. There is a string in there that I hope someone who is better at writing and analysis can tug at. I will say that while Darkshine is a problematic stereotype of black people, PPP is a problematic stereotype of LGBT and also commits actions which further exacerbates these issues. The only real reflection that ONE seems to acknowledge is that PPP is a prisoner guilty of these crimes and... Thats it.
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Dec 3, 2020 21:36
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Darkshine is more problematic then the cockroaches in TerraforMars, in my opinion.
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Dec 3, 2020 21:52
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PPP is definitely a character who could be somewhat remedied if ONE actually wrote in realistic LGBTQ representation into the manga. Ordinary people who look at PPP and go "that dude isn't *just* gay he's MFing insane." Being completely divorced from reality is PPP's whole schtick - his clothes get ripped off in a fight and in his mind he's discovered a brand new transformation. Tatsu wraps him up in a bubble? Another Angel transformation, naturally. PPP being a harmful depiction of a gay character could be played off well if we had other gay characters to show that it has nothing to do with homosexuality and everything to do with PPP being straight up bonkers.
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Dec 3, 2020 21:58
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Saitama x Genos. Or would having the other gay couple be an older man and a barely-legal teen be problematic?
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Dec 3, 2020 22:27
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oh jay posted:Dr. Genus, the only one in the series that had actually tried to define what a monster is, says that genetically modified things are monsters. And also aliens and other non-human creatures like the deep-sea folks are monsters too. The major running themes in OPM are "What is the difference between a hero and a monster?" and "What does it mean to be powerful in a world where some generic bald guy can shrug off everything you throw at him and obliterate you in a single punch?" Attempts to categorize monsters and heroes based on physical characteristics does a disservice to the first theme and attempts to categorize different types of powers ("superpowers" vs "intense training") does a disservice to the second. I don't know what to say other than it feels like you're missing the point of the story. Just look at how Saitama treats any "monsters" he runs into, he never attacks first, talks to them, gives them chances to redeem themselves, and only after they make their intent 100% clear does he actually fight them. There are other characters in the story that draw bright lines between what is a monster and what is a hero/human but they are always shown to be either wrong or incredibly monstrous themselves.
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Dec 3, 2020 23:12
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Donkringel posted:At this point in writing I tried to draw a similarity between PPP and Darkshine but kept deleting and rewriting it because I couldn't really nuance it out enough to be coherent and respectful enough for me. There is a string in there that I hope someone who is better at writing and analysis can tug at. it doesn't need to be nuanced, they're both lovely characters. Darkshine is a big dumb muscle guy in blackface and PPP is a dumb sexual harasser who violates gender norms in a way that is shown to make others uncomfortable. PPP is worse b/c you can't even hide behind the 'western view of racism' argument. but I enjoy most of the rest of the manga and its actiony fun that usually gives me 10-20 minutes of joy every two weeks. I get that pop culture is important but I don't see us unravelling some deep insights by exploring these caricatures? Sometimes things are just bad!
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Dec 4, 2020 00:23
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AfricanBootyShine posted:it doesn't need to be nuanced, they're both lovely characters. Darkshine is a big dumb muscle guy in blackface I strongly disagree. Darkshine is quite a good character on most metrics other than his design, and outside his design there isn't anything racist about his character. That's why it's so disappointing that his design is problematic. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Dec 4, 2020 |
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Dec 4, 2020 00:39
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It's so close to not being racist! But you can't have black-looking dudes with Saitama-face and a big potato nose, it's a real bad look.
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Dec 4, 2020 05:25
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RareAcumen posted:It's so close to not being racist! Fixed. 
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Dec 4, 2020 07:35
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I really love the chicken scratch panel where Garou claims he's a monster. It's horrific, sure, but there's also a touch of sadness in his eye sockets.
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Dec 7, 2020 00:42
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Brought To You By posted:This is the best one though. okay the paint roller slayed me. would've never guessed that's how it's done
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Dec 7, 2020 13:07
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King of Solomon posted:Yeah, this is the actual thing. If the dude looked like a Japanese dude with a ridiculous bodybuilder body, that would be one thing, but his face is still a racist caricature of a black dude. Isn't that just a standard dorky manga face, like, I don't know, Golden Ball?
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Dec 7, 2020 15:19
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YggdrasilTM posted:Isn't that just a standard dorky manga face, like, I don't know, Golden Ball? When the whole Darkshine twist was revealed months back I was going to say "well there is still Golden Ball" and when I checked I saw he was not black, so that style of face is definitely confusing.
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Dec 7, 2020 20:40
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Lol all this discussion. Why not just admit that Japan has race issues and leave it at that. Don't need to try to justify it. This is far from being the only example of it in the industry.
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Dec 7, 2020 21:05
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Every nation and industry has race issues. Pretending the racism isn't there or is just fine because its normal or that people should just get over it sucks.
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Dec 7, 2020 21:40
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On the off chance that Darkshine's character wasn't rooted in racist caricature, there is a negative one billion % chance it hasn't been brought up to ONE/Murata and Jump Comics and they've done diddly squat to change or make amends so even if the original intent is not racist (psst, it was), its ongoing presentation is.
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Dec 8, 2020 09:22
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The official VIZ translation is out and they use the nickname "Luster"
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Dec 9, 2020 19:30
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but Shiny was right there
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Dec 9, 2020 19:45
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Bleck posted:but Shiny was right there Yea but apparently VIZ is calling him Superalloy Blackluster Have they been doing this the whole time? and I just didnt notice? lol The viz translation of just this chapter has some things which annoy me like calling Sweet Mask "Amai* mask" *amai means sweet
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Dec 9, 2020 19:47
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Jerkface posted:Yea but apparently VIZ is calling him Superalloy Blackluster Other translations that they do differently than most fan translations are Centichoro (Elder Centipede) and Black Spermatozoon, off the top of my head. I'm sure there's others.
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Dec 9, 2020 20:41
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what's wrong with calling him black sperm
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Dec 9, 2020 22:43
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Jerkface posted:Yea but apparently VIZ is calling him Superalloy Blackluster Blackluster? For real? I thought translating kuro as 'dark' in the context of his name was a smart move to... maybe not hone in so hard on what would make the audience for the English translation uncomfortable.
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Dec 9, 2020 23:58
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I assume its a Yugioh reference?
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Dec 10, 2020 00:14
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Terror Sweat posted:what's wrong with calling him black sperm i guess they didnt want to confuse the reader whether he's a spermotozoon or a spermatium
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Dec 10, 2020 00:17
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Jerkface posted:Yea but apparently VIZ is calling him Superalloy Blackluster I just dont like blackluster because it sounds like lackluster
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Dec 10, 2020 00:24
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Meme Emulator posted:I just dont like blackluster because it sounds like lackluster i think that makes it into a funny joke which none of the other translations are in any form
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Dec 10, 2020 00:26
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| # ? May 16, 2024 19:24 |
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After Garou beats him up, his parting words are "blackluster? You lack luster." Leaving him in a demoralized state.
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Dec 10, 2020 03:29
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