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The Lord Bude posted:The noble war is one of the choices you can have for the crisis - when you start a new game you can either choose a specific option or have it be random. After the first crisis new ones will occur at reasonably fixed intervals, chosen randomly from the pool of whichever ones haven’t happened yet. After you’ve seen them all, they’ll keep happening at a similar rate but chosen completely at random. The first crisis usually Okay, glad to hear it. Means the current savegame will keep on giving me content and won't get stale for a long time if I miss out on the noble war by not participating in it and having it just end by itself.
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Dec 10, 2020 15:52
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Qubee posted:I'll post my guys tomorrow when I hop on again, I think I royally hosed their perks up. I gave my strongest 2H Longsword guy dodge, and his fatigue gets capped at 70 because his armour is so heavy lol, he'll also have so much downtime due to fatigue where the only thing he can do is single strike because I don't have the recover perk. Most I can do is get off one or two sweeps before I'm just stuck striking targets. Also a bunch of perks I gave strong guys that are useless in higher levels (the +10% to hit chance, extra damage to crippled enemies and the 33% buff to causing crippling wounds), and now I realise I should only really give those perks to guys I don't expect to keep round long enough to make it to the later levels. I should have saved perk points for the more important stuff. My weapon choice was also a bit whack, I gave everyone either swords or spears but I realise now that I should be carrying extra weapons in bag slots to adapt on the fly. Plus the Noble armies made me realise I need stuff like maces and hammers to really deal damage through their armour. I also haven't bothered with many classes other than shieldbros, polearm bros and 2H bros, I'm going to try and add in a few netters to immobilize enemy footmen so I can easily break through them and get to the soft underbelly of their army, and some hybrid throwing axes / 2H guys or whatever works best with throwing axe classes. Cheers for all the help, and god drat is this game addicting. I'd love to do an ironman run but I really can't deal with random RNG that just wrecks a battle brother I'm really attached to. I've got a bunch of guys from the previous battle that technically died but were revived by the surgeon and have gnarly permanent disabilities, so I'm planning on slowly submitting them to the meatgrinder to make way for fresh recruits. I'm not paying them upwards of 800 gold each to relieve them, I'd rather just have them go out in a blaze of glory. If I were richer though, I'd love to send them off to retirement and imagine them happily living on a farm with their missing eyes, torn ears and broken noses lol Yeah there's a few things in here that I would change. Dodge is not good for anyone who's going to wear heavy armour. Generally all your bros should be built (defensively at least) around either getting Nimble or Battleforged as their core defensive perk. Very reductively, battleforged for bros with a lot of fatigue and nimble for bros with a lot of HP. Both of them are good but I generally find battleforged is better for frontliners, since nimble bros are very vulnerable to a couple of common weapons like cleavers. Nimble should go on all dedicated backliners like polearm users or archers. Never give dodge to anyone who will be taking battleforged. It's a wasted perk since they'll get very little use out of it. Dodge can be good on nimble bros since they'll have much lighter armour fatigue. I find Recover to be pretty essential by the lategame and will give it to almost everyone. Once you're berserking your way through multiple AOE attacks per turn, even with weapon mastery you chew through so much fatigue that in long fights you will need to recover at some point. It's situational though--most fights will be over before you need to recover, but in the fights where you need it, you really need it. The extra attack and damage perks you mention aren't bad perks necessarily, but I rarely take them on anyone because for the majority of bros I think they're not as important as the alternatives. Swords and shields are a bit of a trap. You can get stuck relying on them because you like the bonus chance to hit, but they aren't actually good weapons against most enemies by the lategame. Spears basically suck against every dangerous enemy, and swords are only good against enemies with virtually no armour. Using either of them against a noble company is a recipe for a bad time because even though they'll give you a slight advantage to hit through the shieldwall, they'll bounce off armour for way too long while you get piked to death. The big thing is that while spears and swords give you a bonus to hit, you can make up for that bonus by having better bros who will be just as likely to hit but with a weapon that actually does something when you do. Imo the best base 1-handed weapon in the game is the mace. It does good damage, has good stats on damage to armour and through armour, and it has the most useful secondary attack of any 1-handed weapon. When I build a company for the lategame, almost all my shieldbros end up with maces and mace specialization. They're useful in just about every fight. Also in almost all fights you don't need to keep spare weapons in your belt. Specialize in weapons that will be good 9 times out of 10, like maces, and then you don't need to worry about that level of micromanagement and you don't need to weigh your guys down with the extra fatigue of a second weapon in their belt.
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Dec 10, 2020 16:05
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The other big thing with Noble Armies is you really, really want to nail the Standard Bearers. Those fuckers will keep the army in the fight much longer if you don't get them, because one of the best ways to deal with noble forces is to break their morale. Even if you don't get them fleeing immediately, remember everyone with any kind of negative morale state is suffering significant penalties. This is one reason guns are so powerful with fearsome, because a gunner with good Resolve causes brutal moral saves to large swaths of enemies. Once a section of a line starts breaking, harvesting some kills will terrify them and then the guys who are running can be cut down to further scare the guys behind them, which also helps keep the damage dealers under control.
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Dec 10, 2020 16:12
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I can feel my strategy evolving from all this newfound information. I'm excited to get a new roster up and running with guys that are specifically tailored for their roles, rather than my haphazard perk and stat upgrades I fumbled through at the beginning and just stuck with my poor choices. I've started using maces, but their low damage was what initially put me off. A noble sword or arming sword does a fair bit of base damage, whereas most maces I've found do a piddly 30-45 or something. I guess the 100% bonus vs armour and also the 40% ignore to armour means I'm quickly chewing through their protection and leaving them vulnerable to polearms whilst also doing a fair bit of pure HP damage, but a noble sword does 85% vs armour which doesn't seem too bad? Should I have swords kept in the bag to swap to when the enemy armour is destroyed? Or maybe I'm not understanding the fundamentals of how maces and vs armour effectiveness works. I always try to gun for the standard bearers but the AI is surprisingly crafty. They'll keep the bearer out of harm's way as long as possible. I also watched a guide video that said fearsome was broken? They ran tests and had a spreadsheet that showed the ability barely proc'd, and overall was pretty useless. I don't know if it was fixed or buffed in recent patches. I'm figuring out new formation ideas, right now I just do a straight line but I was thinking of having two or three really heavy tank guys (blue stars) who can take a helluva beating and having them lead mini spearheads. That leaves gaps for the enemy to funnel into and would give them surround debuff (yellow star guys) for the rest of my guys to obliterate and make new openings? I don't know if it would be worthwhile though. Depends on luck, because if there's just a sea of footmen, I wouldn't be opening up a path to the polearm dudes as they'd still be safe behind the next row of footmen crowding in. 
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Dec 10, 2020 16:35
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Qubee posted:I can feel my strategy evolving from all this newfound information. I'm excited to get a new roster up and running with guys that are specifically tailored for their roles, rather than my haphazard perk and stat upgrades I fumbled through at the beginning and just stuck with my poor choices. I've started using maces, but their low damage was what initially put me off. A noble sword or arming sword does a fair bit of base damage, whereas most maces I've found do a piddly 30-45 or something. I guess the 100% bonus vs armour and also the 40% ignore to armour means I'm quickly chewing through their protection and leaving them vulnerable to polearms whilst also doing a fair bit of pure HP damage, but a noble sword does 85% vs armour which doesn't seem too bad? Should I have swords kept in the bag to swap to when the enemy armour is destroyed? Or maybe I'm not understanding the fundamentals of how maces and vs armour effectiveness works. You're comparing the highest-tier sword against a lower-tier mace. Comparing like for like highest-tier weapons gives you this: A noble sword does 45-50 damage, 20% through armour, 85% vs. armour. A winged mace does 35-55 damage, 40% through armour, 110% vs. armour. Let's say you're hitting an undamaged enemy with 150 armour, which is about what an enemy footman would be wearing. A noble sword rolls max damage, 50. Multiply that by 85% to get 42.5 damage done to the 150 armour. I think the game rounds that up so we'll call it 43 damage, leaving the enemy with 107 armour durability. Then you take 20% of that 50 damage and apply it through armour. That's 10 damage. But (and the game doesn't tell you this), you then subtract 10% of the enemy's remaining armour from that. Subtracting 10.7 damage from the 10 damage we were doing through armour, we end up doing zero damage. So with our one connecting hit, even at maximum damage, we left the enemy with 107 body armour and did no HP damage. If we roll minimum damage instead, 45, the same math means we did 38 damage to armour, leaving the enemy with 112 durability armour, and again do zero HP damage. A winged mace hits the same enemy and rolls max damage, 55. Multiply that by 110% to get 60.5 damage done to the 150 armour, dropping it to 89. Then multiple by 40% to get through-armour damage of 22, minus 10% of their remaining 89 durability armour, 8.9, and we also do 13 damage straight to HP. If we instead roll minimum damage, 35, the same math means we did 38.5 damage to armour, leaving the enemy with 111 durability armour, and then do 14 damage to HP against a reduction of 11, meaning we also do 3 HP damage. In every one of these scenarios the mace comes out on top. Whether you're rolling minimum or maximum damage, the mace does more because of its higher damage multipliers. In fact, the minimum damage roll from the mace very nearly outperforms the maximum damage roll from the sword. And on top of that, in the mace scenario you're always doing at least 1 damage which means a bro with fearsome will trigger a morale check every time you hit a footman. quote:I always try to gun for the standard bearers but the AI is surprisingly crafty. They'll keep the bearer out of harm's way as long as possible. I also watched a guide video that said fearsome was broken? They ran tests and had a spreadsheet that showed the ability barely proc'd, and overall was pretty useless. I don't know if it was fixed or buffed in recent patches. Fearsome got buffed in the patch for the most recent DLC, so a video older than a few months will be basing it on the old perk which was garbage instead of the new one which is one of the best perks in the game. And I wouldn't rely on that new formation. Tactics like that can work in some fights (for example, to absorb orc charges or to make ancient dead charge you), but against big noble armies it's reducing the overall length of your frontline which makes you much more likely to get surrounded and have a bad time. vyelkin fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 16:46
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Yeah at day 150 such a battle shouldn't give you much trouble if you're not playing very slowly on purpose but pretty much everyone ends up with lovely choices on their first run so no worries! I would start off fresh but you can still salvage your run if you want. Imo it's mainly about knowing your target stats and builds that are successful for your style. I'm saying it that way because there isn't really one perfect strategy. For instance, a lot of posters itt swear that fearsome builds or lot of backline dps are they way to go whereas I don't use either but we're still all successful with our strategies. I'm just gonna make a wall of text and describe the builds I use and what my stat goals are so that you can take some directions from them. Though keep in mind that not all of my builds are fully optimized for the new DLC yet Early Line Student Colossus Gifted Rotate Recover Underdog Battleforged Pathfinder Brawny Mace or Axe spec+shield expert This is my standard 1h+shield early game build that's meant to fight+farm raiders for their gear and those bros usually get phased out once I'm in the midgame. Farming raiders is the basic 101 for the early game which you should focus on btw. Pretty much every bro that's better than what I would consider "trash that will die" can fill this build. Farmers, brawlers(great background!), caravan hands, lumberjacks, butchers, masons, and messengers are where I look. Militia also works but is often too expensive early on and may have potential to be something better. Wildmen can also work but have some crappy stat ranges after their nerfs so I usually don't bother trying anymore. This build wants stars in melee atk, defence and stamina if possible but health is also helpful and resolve is too but it's the least important stat for a star in the early game. I level as much mAtt/def and fatigue as I can while aiming for 71 health(without colossus! The bonus is retroactive btw so you don't need 71 before you pick the perk) and go for resolve between 40-50 which can also be met with a resolve trinket. These guys are meant to farm raiders and to hold the line! They aren't huge damage dealers and never will be. They use flails early because raiders often have no or crappy helmets and then switch to axes later or a tier 3 mace if I managed to loot that. They also get a dagger in their pocket asap to farm raiders with good body+head armor. Their perks are mostly set in stone for me but I guess recover isn't 100%. I use it to offset the fatigue cost from the alternate flail/dagger attacks but you can sorta get by without it if the fatigue pool is good enough. Hybrid/Early Game Crutch Student Quick Hands Gifted Anticipation Polearm Mastery Berserk Frenzy Nimble or Battleforged (depends on the fatigue) Footwork or Rotate (depends on taste though footwork is better for the build I guess) Bow Mastery and Bullseye I use this build rarely and it mostly happens when I find an early bro with stars in melee and ranged attack that's overall too good to just trash him. The role of this build is to be a damage dealer/force multiplier early but imo they don't hold up past the midgame. But if I struggle early then this build can do some good work and it sorta allows you to punch a bit above your weight if you run like two or three behind your line. Because the dps from the polearms has some weight in early fights and the extra arrow shots also help. I level m/rAttk and fatigue with a bit of health(around 70 since they don't run colossus but can catch a hit sometimes) and some rDef. Resolve can be ignored in the backline if you don't use fearsome. I don't really search backgrounds for this build but sellswords make the best versions imo. There is a variant of this build which uses a whip instead of a bow and that can hold up past the midgame imo because the whip disarm is the best control skill in the game. That build takes cleaver mastery as the fifth perk and polearm+recover as their last. I still don't like it that much but it's a solid build. Archer+Thrower Hybrid Student Bullseye Anticipation Bow Mastery Recover Nimble Berserk Frenzy Quick Hands Duelist+Throwing Mastery This is my ranged build and I usually end up with 4-5 of them in my company because I want some extras for certain fights. Their role should be pretty clear. Shoot stuff and have decent odds to snipe high threat targets behind other stuff. They switch to throwing weapons against heavy armor humans like chosen or when I expect the dps to matter more than the range. And they stay on the bench against orc warriors and ancient undead because their damage doesn't help against skellies and orc warriors break your line and chop them up. I level rAtt/def and stamina with some health(60-70ish). You pretty much want their rAtt to be 90+ in the end if possible. The two vanilla starts give you one good archer to use but backgrounds that work are basically only poachers(shepherds early too) and hunters. And hunters are the targets for your mid-late game company when they come with 2-3 stars in rAtt. There are some outliers where a bro can have 40+ rAtt and two stars but it's not something you can really hunt for. Some advice is that you pretty much always should have archers in your group against enemies that also use ranged weapons. If the AI thinks that their ranged is much better than yours then they will not advance towards you! Banner Bro Student Fortified Mind Rally Gifted Cleaver Mastery Nimble or Battleforged (depends on the bro but forged without brawny is hard to justify since rally burns a lot of stam) Recover Colossus Rotate Quickhands+Pathfinder( Pathfinder is a flexspot for now since I'm not certain what is best here. Polearm, Footwork, Brawny, Berserk and even Underdog can all be argued for) The banner is kind of a sad build. It looks cool to have on the field but is only needed in very few fights. That's why most people use a monk that just sits on the bench 90% of the time. I try to go a different route by having it also be my main whip user. Reminder that disarm is the best control skill in the game! Basically any bro with 40+ resolve and 2-3 stars can be your banner but squires and beastslayers are prime backgrounds to roll on imo. Adventurous nobles have the best resolve stat range in the game but they're also expensive and need some points sunk into their rDef. You obviously want to level resolve everytime and pump stamina often but the rest depends on how you use the bro. I also level some rDef and try to go for a good chunk of health(around 80+ without colossus) and try to get mAtt in the range of 80+. The whip disarm is hard to hit(even with the bonus from cleaver mastery) so good mAtt is mandatory for me. The health pool is due to me using my banner as an emergency tank that can rotate a dying bro to the back and then eat a few hits. This strat pairs well with nimble btw. As said, the banner is a sad build and everyone needs to figure out how they wanna handle it Tank! Student Recover Rotate Brawny Underdog Battleforged Indomitable Pathfinder(used to be taunt but I moved away from it) Colossus Shield Mastery+Gifted, Fortified Mind, Steel Brow (The second choice depends on the final stats of the bro and if I need to shore something up) This is one of my favorite builds and gets used all the way through the game. This bro doesn't deal damage well but can stand in the middle of a bunch of enemies and laugh about it while your other bros do the killing. It's all about being defensive and locking enemies down so that they can't pressure the rest of your dudes. Very helpful against lindwurms and unholds btw and a good magnet for orc young stun attacks. I always run with two of them(one each on the edges of my line) and have two more on the bench that I bring in for certain fights. Early on you can sorta use any background with 2 stars in defense but later on you want to look for more expensive backgrounds with better bases in mAtt. 60 mAtt with a spear/sword is fine early but sucks after that. And while the bro is built towards defense you want them to be able to contribute at least some good hits over the course of a fight. Finding good tanks for the lategame can be hard because the build is sorta stat hungry. You want mDef on every level(target around 30 without a shield), health at 71+(around 80 if possible) before colossus bonus, resolve around 60(without a trinket), fatigue at 140 or as close as possible and then also mAtt between 70-80. Getting that on anyone but hedge knights is a tall order imo but with some luck in stars and traits it can be done. That's why I also have several possible picks for the last perk since I need those stats! But as said, early game tanks are much less stat hungry because you ignore mAtt after 60 but I don't like that later on. 2h Student Pathfinder Rotate Colossus(can be gifted if the base health is huge and has stars) Underdog Battleforged Recover Brawny Frenzy Berserk+2h Weapon Mastery of choice (kinda any except swords since they suck later. And axe is questionable since the aoe skill is hard to set up but okay if you have a good famed one) This is the other build I really like to use but it's not really something you can pull of well early(one of your vanilla starter bros can be built to be an okay 2h sword user though). I transition into these bros during the midgame and my lategame strats need them. They are dps builds that are meant to get rolling after their first kill and then snowball through the enemies until their fatigue is spent. There are variations of this build which don't use berserk to stay stamina neutral or builds that use quickhands to juggle 2h and reach weapons. But this is what I use and I'm not sure if I switch it up anytime soon. Though I use one "variant" that specs into cleaver(there is an event for a famed 2h cleaver in every campaign btw) to also use a whip. My 2h build is very stat hungry and you pretty much want stars in mAtt+def and fatigue. My targets are 85+ mAtt, 25+ mDef, 71 health without colossus bonus, 50 res and 140 fatigue or as close as possible. Fatigue is a point of contention I guess but I run my 2h users in the heaviest armor possible. You can mitigate the fatigue with famed armor but you also can't really count on that. Seeing how high my demands are you can probably also guess that not many backgrounds can fill this order. Hedge knights are the prime targets to roll on but sellswords can also do it with some luck and even cheap backgrounds like lumberjacks and brawlers can work. Those need some luck with their stars/traits and level up rolls though. Finding my 2h users is usually the main effort of all my campaigns but when I get them they clean house against almost everything and I love them dearly The one build I'm gonna exclude here is the duelist which uses a 1h weapon(famed if possible) and no shield because my old builds suck rear end and I'm still working on a current one Phew, words huh?  I'm sure the other posters itt will have lots of things they don't like and think are better but as said before there isn't really one true strat for this game imo Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 17:05
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This thread is ace and you're all giving great advice. I'm heading to bed now but tomorrow is going to be a good day of killing things. My life has become absorbed by this game and it's a good feeling. I'm trying to figure out what keeps drawing me back to it despite fights being somewhat similar. I think it's the mix of just enough randomness so battles are different enough to be exciting, and the adrenaline rush of knowing death is a very real thing that can happen if you make mistakes. The storytelling also goes a long way and raising your guys from scrubs to warlords gives you a strong sense of attachment, so losing them hurts big.
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Dec 10, 2020 17:30
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This thread is low-key the best source of info on the game imo, it's just so much has been lost to time - I'm going to go through post history to dig up something I put up when someone else felt crapped out by the first crisis
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Dec 10, 2020 20:37
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rideANDxORdie posted:I think it's a pretty common speed bump to hit in the mid-game as you have enough of a handle on the combat to get a campaign through the first few weeks but don't have a great sense of the strategic side of the game. That feeling of being undergeared and underpowered is probably because you are - raider mail is not going to hold up under the kind of foes you'll be seeing in the first crisis. Ideally, you want as many of your frontline guys out of mail and into 200+ armor as possible by the time the first crisis rolls around. This means a lot of your day 30-80 should be grinding out reinforced mail hauberks or the southern equivalent, which will cost you anywhere from like 2,100 to 3,100 a suit IIRC depending on the town. It's pretty tough to get every one of your guys in these by first crisis, so finding early bandit leaders that spawn with good armor that you can steal is important too. Don't worry about buying top tier helmets- - these are a lot easier to come by on your own. If you can find a teeny mercenary company of 5-6 guys early, you can snake some amazing gear way before normal - enemy mercenaries have a really varied equipment pool so if you're lucky some of them will spawn with no helmet/padded armor and a short sword for easy kills, while you dagger party the others. Realistically you want to have at least two sets of 200+ body armor, but more is both better and very doable The noble crisis is still a strong pick for first crisis as if you want, you can sit on the sidelines for the whole thing and not engage in it and it won't have any effect on you. The other crisis spawn enemy groups and camps everywhere and can shut down settlements - all of which effects you whether you take related contracts or not. That being said, sitting on the sidelines for the noble crisis is an emergency option, not recommended, as the noble crisis can also give you some of the highest rewards in terms of loot and gear if your company can hang. There's been some great advice in the thread when it comes to recruiting and training bros. If you feel capped out by first crisis, I personally would rather take another crack at a company but you could salvage the current run. rideANDxORdie fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 20:38
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Just wading in to say "always use maces on your tankier bro's". Goddamn do they change the game.
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Dec 10, 2020 22:02
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I would go so far as to suggest that maces should be the default choice for anyone using a 1 handed melee weapon (both shield using bros and duelists) unless you have a good reason not to. Good reasons not to are: 1. you find a good named weapon of another type. 2. spears on low level bros until they have 60+ matk. 3. Spears on the high level bro at each end of the front line in order to funnel enemies into the middle and discourage them from wrapping around you - but in this case keep a better backup weapon on them to switch to once spearwall fails. 4. fencing sword duelist if you find an appropriately skilled bro (very uncommon but super rewarding if you do - my fencer with a named fencing sword can one shot noble footmen and billmen and the like, taking out 3 per turn) 5. regular swords use less stamina per attack than other weapons and have a hit bonus, can make an otherwise borderline bro useful - personally I use swords as my second weapon for spearmen since using spearwall a bunch leaves them fatigued.
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Dec 11, 2020 04:31
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vyelkin posted:Some good two-handed weapons have a 2-tile AOE attack that lets you hit a footman and a damage dealer behind them at the same time (this is specifically greatswords and bardiches). Don't forget swordlances and warscythes which can potentially hit 3 backliners at once
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Dec 11, 2020 04:38
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The Lord Bude posted:I would go so far as to suggest that maces should be the default choice for anyone using a 1 handed melee weapon (both shield using bros and duelists) unless you have a good reason not to.
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Dec 11, 2020 15:56
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Tin Tim posted:I've never gotten into the number crunching but is the +10% pen really better than the higher armor damage on axes? I'm curious so I'll crunch the numbers. A fighting axe does 35-55 damage, 30% through armour, 130% vs. armour. A winged mace does 35-55 damage, 40% through armour, 110% vs. armour. Let's say you're hitting an undamaged enemy with 150 armour, which is about what an enemy footman would be wearing. A fighting axe rolls max damage, 55. Multiply by 130% to get 71.5 armour damage. Round to 72, leaving the enemy with 78 armour durability. Then take 30% of the damage through armour: 16.5 rounded to 17. Minus 10% of remaining armour, you do 9 damage to HP. A fighting axe rolls min damage, 35. Multiply by 130% to get 45.5 armour damage. Round to 46, leaving the enemy with 104 armour durability. Then take 30% of the damage through armour: 10.5, rounded to 11. Minus 10% of remaining armour, you do 1 damage to HP. A winged mace rolls max damage, 55. Multiply by 110% to get 60.5 armour damage. Round to 61, leaving the enemy with 89 armour durability. Then take 40% of the damage through armour: 22. Minus 10% of remaining armour, you do 13 damage to HP. A winged mace rolls min damage, 35. Multiple by 110% to get 38.5 armour damage. Round to 39, leaving the enemy with 111 armour durability. Then take 40% of the damage through armour: 14. Minus 10% of remaining armour, you do 3 damage to HP. I would say those are pretty comparable, and the comparison will depend on edge cases and other utility. Maces' higher through-armour damage will mean they proc fearsome more often on more heavily armoured enemies (even against a footman with 150 armour, the axe just barely gets 1 HP damage on a minimum roll. If you were up against a chosen instead, the axe wouldn't get through remaining armour but the mace would). Axes' higher damage on hits to the head means 25% of the time you'll get extra bonus damage. Maces also deal 10 fatigue damage per hit, which usually isn't a big deal but will come in handy on certain edge cases. I think the biggest thing for me is that the mace's secondary attack is so useful compared to the axe. You don't actually want to be breaking shields very often. Enemies with shields are less dangerous, are much more likely to use AP doing shieldwall instead of attacking, and they do less damage when they do attack because without a shield they get double grip. Breaking shields also takes a long time against any enemy who needs it, because they all have shield expert. And breaking shields is useless against anyone who doesn't have a shield in the first place. On the other hand, stunning enemies is almost always useful. You can break shieldwalls by stunning people instead of having to break their shields. You can stun dangerous enemies like chosen or zweihanders. You can use stun to control the battlefield, like stunning enemies adjacent to a bro who's in danger, so they can escape melee safely, or to stun someone next to a qatal dagger bro so they can use deathblow. There are some enemies who are immune to stun, but I find I want to stun someone way more often than I want to break their shield.
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Dec 11, 2020 16:15
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The other thing is the mace's +10 Fatigue on hit isn't huge because most enemies have much better Fatigue than your guys can get, but it's not nothing. Maces would be worth using if all they did was their solid through armor and decent enough damage, but combine that with slowing enemies down and tiring them out, and the option to control enemies with stuns, and you have a real winner of a weapon.
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Dec 11, 2020 16:41
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Damage is similar but maces win out because of the stun and the fatigue debuff. Also it's a trivial point, but when doing calculations remember that the game always rounds decimals down not up.
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Dec 11, 2020 16:58
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The Lord Bude posted:Damage is similar but maces win out because of the stun and the fatigue debuff. That's good to know. And actually in the math above it isn't trivial, because rounding down instead of up for the axe's minimum through-armour damage takes it from 1 to 0 and means you don't proc fearsome on this hypothetical footman.
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Dec 11, 2020 17:04
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The main thing about maces early is that it lets you continually stun a dude and then the rest of your guys can dagger him to death, entirely safely. The main thing about maces late game is you can still do that, only far more reliably and its still just as funny.
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Dec 11, 2020 17:10
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Ancient Dead hate mace duelists.
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Dec 11, 2020 17:14
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Thanks for the breakdown! I do agree that it's good to have some sources for stun in your line but at the same time I think people tend to overvalue it a bit. Like aside from a certain portion of the enemies being stun immune you also have to keep in mind that stun requires you to pass two rolls without the mastery. You need to hit and then get the 75% to stun. It's likely but sometimes it's better to just kill asap. Also the fatigue hit only really counts against thugs/raiders/basic barbs and maybe nomads(not enough playtime for me to gauge that) I think? Because the AI "cheats" with stamina per round and the total pool on other enemies. Like I dare you to stam out a chosen
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Dec 11, 2020 19:38
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It isn't that you can stam them out (you absolutely can't on Chosen and even if you could you need them dead or broken faster than you could wear them down) but it will slow them down in Init as they take hits. It's not the reason you take a mace, that's the decent balance of damage, through armor, and okay armor damage (and the stun option) but rather a nice bonus on top of an already excellent weapon.
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Dec 11, 2020 19:41
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i always found the fact the enemies get insanely superior fatigue to be rather annoying. just in the sense that the game presents you and enemies as functionally equivalent but the enemies actually get to mostly ignore an entire system and you just kind of discover this if you're foolish enough to try to exploit it i get that they need it because they're very stupid, but its still annoying in that abstract way
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Dec 11, 2020 19:48
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Tiler Kiwi posted:i always found the fact the enemies get insanely superior fatigue to be rather annoying. just in the sense that the game presents you and enemies as functionally equivalent but the enemies actually get to mostly ignore an entire system and you just kind of discover this if you're foolish enough to try to exploit it It's very annoying in one specific place: Barbarians. Because when they were being designed the devs were like 'well they overwhelm you quick early but will tire out as a battle goes, especially if they keep using their version of Rotation and their Adrenaline!' Except they have infinite stamina. And if they didn't they have drummers. So the disadvantage/weakness they were intended to have doesn't exist.
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Dec 11, 2020 19:51
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Night10194 posted:It isn't that you can stam them out (you absolutely can't on Chosen and even if you could you need them dead or broken faster than you could wear them down) but it will slow them down in Init as they take hits.
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Dec 11, 2020 19:57
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init systems are great, because you get rewarded as a player by completely ignoring it once you realize turn order is a spook
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Dec 11, 2020 20:03
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Tin Tim posted:Thanks for the breakdown! That's why you give everybody the mastery Tiler Kiwi posted:i always found the fact the enemies get insanely superior fatigue to be rather annoying. just in the sense that the game presents you and enemies as functionally equivalent but the enemies actually get to mostly ignore an entire system and you just kind of discover this if you're foolish enough to try to exploit it Yeah I find this very annoying. I don't mind it on orcs or undead or whoever, but for enemies that are supposed to be ordinary humans just like you it's super annoying that they don't have to do the same fatigue balancing that you do. For the occasional enemy like a knight it's not a big deal, the same way you can get the occasional level 11 bro who has like 140 fatigue and 100 HP and 90 MAtk all at the same time. But for an entire class of fairly common enemies like chosen that have functionally unlimited fatigue despite wearing heavy armour, high enough HP that even getting through their armour they don't die immediately, and still also having respectable attack and defence and initiative high enough that they can wear heavy armour and still reliably move before you, it's grating. Like, these are the stats of a Barbarian Chosen:  Even leaving aside the fact that they get 13 perks while you only get 11 (I count all the weapon masteries as one just because that's basically a hack to make sure they have a mastery for whatever weapon they spawn with), it's basically impossible to get even one bro to those stats even once you account for their attack and defence being lower than what you would want on a veteran. And then you account for the fact that they also get more fatigue recovery per turn than even a bro with iron lungs, and it's just annoying that they're supposedly humans and you can run into like 20 of them at a time.
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Dec 11, 2020 20:29
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Yeah I know the AI needs certain crutches because they're kind of dumb but the blocks of stats certain people get is insane. Fatigue is particularly bad - every enemy basically has infinite iron lungs. Maaaaaybe after 5 turns and two guys swinging maces, human enemies might be stammed out to the point where they can only shieldwall instead of shieldwall and swing. Initiative is another one too - you're going to be way too strapped for stats in other areas to focus here outside of a rare few specialty builds, so get used to going last 90% of the time. Usually the only times my guys are moving faster (on average) than the opponents are the first two or three turns of an undead fight, then they get tired and it's back to going last. Another thing I would like to see in a potential sequel is separating out the enemy perk list and the player's. Fearsome needed buffing for players to consider it seriously, but the enemies with fearsome didn't really need the extra oomph in my opinion. I really wish enemies didn't have access to crippling strikes either - the injury system is already so tilted against the player and extra injuries just doesn't add anything fun to the game IMO. It just adds another layer of fights I tend to avoid outside of hunting for attachments (unholds, schrats, ifrits) as dealing with the time/money costs of a shitload of injuries just isn't worth it
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Dec 11, 2020 22:10
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Key reminder, barbarians aren't supposed to be normal humans they're all Conans, each and every one of them. (This also annoyed me greatly when I pierced the veil myself)
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Dec 12, 2020 02:25
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Your Level 13 Iron Lungs Hedge Knight with perfect stars isn't a normal human either. That said, the real issue with Barbs isn't their stats being too high (tons of Human enemies get to lean on raw stat lines that a comparable bro could never reach) - it's the encounter design. A Chosen is the kind of super high-threat opponent that normally gets peppered into an enemy composition as a priority target that you're meant deal with proactively (think something like an Orc Berserker, where the typical advice is to take advantage of their low defenses and kill them before they get to melee or suffer the consequences)...except instead of being the marshmallows in the cereal you fight a big ball of all Chosen and they don't have any particular weakness to exploit.
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Dec 12, 2020 02:57
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As I’ve said before; I used to have horrific trouble dealing with big groups of chosen, now I can take them out quite comfortably. The key as I keep hammering is overwhelm and fearsome. The former on all my gunners, swordlancers and light duelists; the latter on gunners, swordlancers, sergeant, and everyone in the front line who carries a 1h weapon. It makes a huge difference. All of a sudden the chosen never manage to hit you and their morale tanks within a few rounds. Also javelin throwers - they do really good damage to chosen.
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Dec 12, 2020 03:07
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Thanks again for the "all reach weapons" strat against alps. Just tried it and it worked very well! Easiest 3k I've ever made in the game Sadly they didn't drop any skin so now I have to travel with two screaming faces in my inventory until I find the next alp fight Btw I'm gonna rectract my tip to be nude for the fatigue boni. They can actually spawn with some direwolves and those will gently caress up your nude bros
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Dec 12, 2020 18:57
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The Lord Bude posted:As I’ve said before; I used to have horrific trouble dealing with big groups of chosen, now I can take them out quite comfortably. The key as I keep hammering is overwhelm and fearsome. The former on all my gunners, swordlancers and light duelists; the latter on gunners, swordlancers, sergeant, and everyone in the front line who carries a 1h weapon. It makes a huge difference. All of a sudden the chosen never manage to hit you and their morale tanks within a few rounds. I am not really good enough at this game to get into debates about what's best - but FWIW, I took this guy's advice and it worked a treat. 2x Fortified Mind / Fearsome Swordlancers and 2x throwers with the same did an absolute number on Chosen, I took out several groups of 15 or so, occasionally with reavers, unholds etc sprinkled on. TBF that is with an all level 11+ roster, but I mean I think that's fair for such opponents. I certainly would not have been able to do it with my previous builds.
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Dec 12, 2020 20:43
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I don’t put fearsome/overwhelm on my throwers - those are pure damage builds. Crippling strikes works well vs chosen - it gives you a pretty high chance of injuring on first hit; then executioner kicks in for the second and third (if you trigger berserk). But yes the more guys you have with it the better it is. I can have large groups of chosen basically fleeing in 4 rounds or so. It works a treat on orcs too - orcs are even more vulnerable to morale problems than barbarians are for the record. My example vs orcs came in my gladiator run sometime between the first and second crisis - I attacked a large camp right as a wandering group of orcs was close enough to be drawn into the fight so I ended up fighting 40 something orcs coming from 2 directions. It did not go well for the orcs. Edit: forgot to mention; gunners are a super good source of fearsome and overwhelm procs; and the low stamina requirements of gunners means you can just max out resolve more or less. The low perk requirements of the build means you can add rally the troops as well So your gunner can also be a backup sarge. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 01:53
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Bude I would appreciate it if you would post your exact builds at some point to run a campaign with them myself. The only way for me to buy the fearsome hype is to see it first hand
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Dec 13, 2020 02:47
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Tin Tim posted:Bude I would appreciate it if you would post your exact builds at some point to run a campaign with them myself. The only way for me to buy the fearsome hype is to see it first hand Pretty sure I already have but if not I will do so as soon as I’m in range of a real keyboard.
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Dec 13, 2020 04:01
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Tin Tim posted:Bude I would appreciate it if you would post your exact builds at some point to run a campaign with them myself. The only way for me to buy the fearsome hype is to see it first hand As promised. To begin with, some background notes: Since the release of the last expansion, I've played through 4 campaigns. Peasants on Veteran/Veteran till around day 500, clearing all legendary locations except the kraken (I've never fought the kraken and have no particular desire to). Peasants on Veteran (econ)/Expert (combat) - taken till just after the first crisis. Gladiators on Veteran/Expert - Currently in Second crisis, haven't cleared any legendary locations other than both parts of the Ijirok fight. Cultists on Veteran/Expert - currently in first crisis, haven't cleared any legendary locations. So most of my experience is in playing peasants but I've used broadly similar builds/tactics across all runs, with the exception of making a special front line warscythe build for my viper in the gladiator run. My most successful peasant run was on the Legolas map seed in case you're interested. In 12 man companies I go with a 7 front/5 rear lineup. In 16 man companies I do 9/7. Also a note on stats as listed - where I've put a plus, that means the value is a minimum but I'll keep increasing it past that if I can to get it as high as possible. Where it's just a number, it means I stop increasing that stat once I pass that number. And the Builds: 1. Shieldbros. I build 2 types of shieldbros. Note that I don't go full tank with them - I expect them to be able to hit stuff and contribute to damage. As a starting point, I like to have a shieldbro for every second bro on the front line (starting at the outermost edge). They have indom to hold enemies in place as needed, rotate to save more valuable/vulnerable bros and also used offensively to help move 2handers into position. When fighting enemies that can knock you around like orcs and unholds, I start off with a staggered line, moving every shieldbro forward one hex and using indom to absorb the charge. Because finding suitable 2handers and duellists is time consuming; in the beginning of the game I hire extra Shieldbros as needed to fill out my front line. As I get later in the game, in many fights I will swap out some of my shieldbros for extra duellists or 2handers. 1a. Midline Shieldbros. Minimum 2 in a 12 man company, 3 in a 16 man company. 2 in a gladiator/lone wolf company. Extra as required to fill out your front line until you find good 2hander candidates. Minimum stat requirements by level 11 (inclusive of all bonuses from perks/traits/items etc): HP - 100 Stam - 130+ (I value stam highly and prioritise hires with higher values/strong trait etc.) Resolve - 60 init - irrelevant matk - 80+ mdef - more is better obviously but I don't worry about it, I level matk and stam every level, the third stat is split between health and resolve until those are both at the desired levels then anything left over goes to mdef. Some of my shieldbros don't have any extra points in mdef. ratk - irrelevant Perks - Student, Colossus, Shield Expert, Brawny, Underdog, Battle forged, Rotation, Weapon Mastery (usually mace), Indomitable, Fearsome, Recover. Weapon is usually mace unless I happen to find another good named 1hander before I've chosen a weapon mastery. Shield is typically the new round shields that southerners use, or whatever good named shields I've found. They also carry a dagger for discount used clothing opportunities. Armour attachment is additional fur padding. 1b. Outer shieldbros. 2 in every company except gladiator/lone wolf which has 0. These are the shieldbros on each end of the front line. They carry spears in order to use spearwall to funnel enemies into the middle of the line and discourage larger groups of enemies from wrapping around the company. They will also carry a second weapon to swap to once spearwall is no longer useful since spears have such low damage. I typically pick swords for this weapon for the following reasons - a) named swords are common and it's nice to have an opportunity to make use of them b) lower stamina usage - these bros will be heavily fatigued after spearwalling for a bunch of rounds, and they don't have recover. Stat requirements are the same as midline shieldbros, however when deciding which bros to give spears to, I always pick the ones with the highest stamina, and where possible any shieldbros that happen to have iron lungs, since with iron lungs they can always swing a sword twice and use less stamina than they recover each turn. Perk list is the same as the midline shieldbros, except they lose recover in order to get a second weapon mastery since they need spears and swords. Armour attachment is additional fur padding. 2. 2handed front line. Minimum 2, plus extra as I find them. Between 2handers and duelists combined I want at least 3 in a 12 man company and 4 in a 16 man company. I start by placing them on the inside of the spearman, and as I find more 2handers or duelists I aim at a minimum to have every second front liner as either a 2hander or a duelist. In my gladiator company I don't have spearmen so the 2handers go at the outer edge of the front line. Footwork here is sometimes used to get out of danger but primarily used offensively to get into position for a good aoe. Minimum Stat Requirements (inclusive of all perks etc): HP - 100 Stam - 140+ Resolve - 50 init - Irrelevant Matk - 90+ Mdef - 20+ (peasants) 30+ (most companies) as close to 40+ as I can get (gladiators, I only hire the very best of the best) Rdef - Irrelevant A note on mdef - This is going to be one of the most controversial things in this post, but after very extensive playtesting, I've come to the conclusion that although more is obviously better, between the fact that damage is split between a larger front line, and the fact that you've got more units inflicting overwhelm and fearsome debuffs, when playing a 16 man company you can quite happily steamroll any encounter with lower levels of mdef than you would in a regular company. For reference, my peasant army cleared the black monolith first try with no casualties, and the battle was over pretty drat quickly. This is important because it's really hard to find candidates good enough to hit 30+ mdef when playing peasants unless you're prepared to significantly compromise other stats. Even in a 12 man army the extensive use of overwhelm takes considerable pressure off compared to the traditional approach of maximising mdef even at the expense of other stats. Once again, I level stamina and matk every level (although with 2handers I'll skip minimum rolls in one or the other if it won't put me under the final stat thresholds in order to help boost other stats). The third stat is used to boost HP and Resolve to the required levels and then all in on mdef. I aim to minimise the number of level ups needed to get HP and resolve up to scratch. Ideally between the arena and necklaces I shouldn't have to put any points in resolve. Perks: Student, Colossus, Brawny, Weapon Mastery, Underdog, Battle forged, Footwork, Beserk, Killing Frenzy, Reach Advantage, Recover Gear: Hammers are the most important 2h frontline weapons in my opinion and my first 2 hires get those. Subsequent hires that will be placed in the middle of the line get either Greatswords or Bardiches (comparing vanilla weapons I prefer the Bardiche, but If I get a named greatsword then I use that). I'll only use a named greataxe/cleaver/flail if I happen to find an unusually good one; and I never use 2handed maces. 2handed maces flat out don't stack up compared to having a duelist with a 1h mace and they're only good for creating stamina neutral builds for substandard bros - I'd rather just not hire the substandard bro. Armour attachment is additional fur padding. 3. Duellist (non fencer). At least 1, more if I find appropriate hires. Between duellists and 2handers I want 3 in a 12 man and 4 in a 16 man company minimum. Duellists are easier to find than 2handers so I'll often have one before I have a 2hander. Also unlike 2handers where you need to get them in good armour and have battle forged before you let them fight with a 2handed weapon, duellists are perfectly viable to fight with no shield as soon as they have dodge - this makes a big difference early game. I don't take footwork on duellists because I find that my main use for footwork on the front line is offensive positioning to line up AOEs, which isn't relevant for a duellist. I always have my shieldbros with rotate in an emergency, or smoke pots if need be. Stat requirements: HP - 80 Stam - 115+ (more is still better if you can) Resolve - 50 (if you can get to 60 without spending level up points that's a nice bonus but not required) Init - generally not required but I might take the occasional max roll if I have only minimum rolls elsewhere matk - 90+ mdef - 20+ (peasants) 30+ (most companies) as close to 40+ as I can get (gladiator/lone wolf) In general you should be able to get more mdef on a duelist compared to a 2hander due to looser stamina requirements. HP is listed at 80 rather than 100 like other front liners because I can't fit colossus into the build. I find that duelists tend get hit less than plate wearers; and nimble makes the HP go further so to speak so I've never had an issue with the lower health. Perks: Student, Recover, Dodge, Weapon Mastery, Underdog, Nimble, Duellist, Beserk, Killing Frenzy, Fearsome, Overwhelm. My standard weapon for a duellist is a mace, but I will make a cleaver duellist or an axe duellist if I happen to find a really good named weapon. Armour attachment is bone plate. 4. Fencer This is something of a luxury build - if your stars align and you find the perfect bro and a good named fencing sword, fencers have the most insane damage capability. Mine can one shot noble troops. Most of my runs I don't have one, but when the stars align like it did in my gladiator run and then in my cultist run, then they kick rear end. The addition of the reworked relentless perk and the hyena pelt armour attachment in the last expansion makes it much easier to build a top tier fencer. Stat Requirements: HP - 70-80. Because they have so much initiative for dodge to work with, fencers rarely get hit in melee, so you can afford to be a bit lax here. More is better, and I'm reluctant to go below 70, but you ideally don't want to be wasting any level up points on health; or at best 1-2 levels worth. In my cultist run my fencer is in the low 60s on the basis that he'll eventually get a decent chunk of health through davkul buffs, and so far it's been fine. Stamina - 110 - 120. Ideally you want to hire someone who has this right off the bat, or close to it so that you don't have to waste level up points on stamina. Resolve - 50 Init - The higher the better obviously. The damage multiplier caps out at 175 initiative; taking the penalty from gear into consideration this means you should be targeting a minimum of 195 init, or 185 with the strong trait*. Init should be raised every single level plus the gifted level. matk - 90+ mdef - 30+ rdef - irrelevant Ideally you want health, stamina and resolve to be good enough or within a few points of good enough from level 1 so that you don't need to waste points raising them. Resolve you can get to where it needs to be on most hires using arena. Fencers dominate in arena so it shouldn't be hard. It's often better when hiring to look for bros that start with high health and stamina rather than the very highest init backgrounds, since those tend to require you to put more points into getting stamina and health up to scratch. Brawlers, farmers (if their starting resolve isn't too poo poo) lumberjacks and wildmen are often good choices. Best traits are strong, quick and tough in that order *Note on the strong trait - this trait is super good for fencers because it has a hidden benefit - in addition to giving an extra 10 stamina, it also reduces the initiative penalty from the gear you have equipped by up to 10; so effectively you have 10 extra initiative in addition to 10 extra stamina. Perks: Student, Recover, Dodge, Relentless, Sword Mastery, Underdog, Nimble, Duellist, Beserk, Killing Frenzy, Gifted. Gear: named fencing sword obviously, and armour attachment is hyena pelt. 5. Archer/Thrower Hybrid. 2 of them in a 12 man company, 3 in a 16 man (when I'm not using my sergeant, the centre of my back line is either a third archer/thrower or a third swordlancer) . When I did my Peasants run, I had stand alone archers and throwers - 2 of each. This makes sense in a peasant game because it's hard to find really top tier ranged bros and you can make do with lower ranged attack in a thrower vs an archer; and there are mild advantages build wise - dedicated archers get recover, gifted and fast adaptation (which does surprisingly good work on archers, since even the best ones miss more often than melee dudes) and dedicated throwers get bags and belts, which lets you work throwable pots into the mix - but ultimately I found I just wasn't using the archers nearly as often as the throwers, and after trying the hybrid build out of necessity in my gladiator build, and then choosing to do that again in my cultists, I've decided that I much prefer the hybrid approach and I'd do that in my next peasant game as well. The hybrid build doesn't have room for recover, and so far I've been surprisingly ok with that. It does mean however that you need to emphasise stamina in your hires. Stat Requirements: HP - 70+ Stamina - 120+ Resolve - 40 (don't waste points here, but feel free to take it higher with arena and necklaces) Init - Irrelevant Ratk 90+ mdef - not particularly useful, but if you already have over 70 health feel free to take a max roll here rdef - not particularly useful, I typically take any max rolls I get here but there's not much point going above 12-15. Increase Stamina and Ratk at every level up, then use the third choice to boost whichever roll is highest out of health/rdef and even mdef if you have no better options. do try and make sure you take enough health level ups to get you to 70-75 though. Perks: Student, Quick Hands, Crippling Strikes, Throwing Mastery, Bow Mastery, Footwork, Nimble, Duellist, Beserk, Killing Frenzy, Executioner Gear: Warbow or named bow, 2x Barbarian heavy Javelins, stack of 14 arrows. Keep 3x Barbarian Heavy throwing axes in your inventory to equip them with in ancient dead fights. Armor attachment is Bone Plates. Most of the time you want to use your throwing weapons at point blank range for maximum damage, but you can swap to the bow for lightly armoured opponents or high priority distant opponents, or to get a shot in when needed without having to waste time repositioning. The Javelins have a higher chance of hitting than even aimed shot at point blank range so especially early on you want to focus more on them. Having javelins in play against early bandit fights actually makes a huge difference. Crippling Strikes and executioner get a bad rap but they make a huge difference vs chosen. 6. Sergeant. One per company. My Sergeant tends to spend most fights on the bench, only coming out for certain fights where I know I'll need both the banner and rally the troops, or if I want his whip functionality. Mainly that's Hexen, Alps, Geists and some Ancient Dead fights. In my gladiator run I skipped this build altogether and just used the gunner build further down with a greater emphasis on resolve - I never ended up using the banner. Stat Requirements: HP - 70 to 80 Stam - 120+ Resolve - 120+ (ideally over 130 but 120 is adequate in a pinch) Init - irrelevant matk - 80+ mdef - irrelevant rdef - not important but it's ok to take a max roll here if you're doing unusually well in your other stats. Perks - Student, Gifted, Backstab, Fortified Mind, Rally the Troops, Polearm Mastery, Cleaver Mastery, Footwork, Nimble, Fearsome, Recover Gear - weapons are the banner and a whip. Armour attachment is bone plates. 7. Gunner. 1 in 12 man companies, 2 in 16 man companies. I give my gunners rally the troops so that they can act as backup sergeants. 95% of the time, you can leave the actual sergeant in reserve. Stat Requirements HP - 70 to 80 Stam - 100 (you'll never exhaust yourself firing your gun, but it's nice to have a little bit of a buffer so you can get off a couple of rallies if needed.) Resolve 90 - 100. You can go higher if using him as your main sergeant, or you happen to get lots of max rolls; or you get a ranged bro with unusually good starting resolve - often the case with hunters. Fearsome value caps at 100, but rally doesn't. If you're playing peasants it's probably ok to cut back to 80 if you need to since you have 2 of them and you're more likely to need gifted to boost ratk over fortified mind. Init - take any max rolls you get as long as you're on track with your other stats. Guns are heavy so your working init is going to be a bit lower than say a duelist; and the higher you can get it the more likely it is you can take advantage of overwhelm. Don't stress out over it though, it doesn't need to be crazy high. Ratk - mid 80s is acceptable, particularly if you're playing peasants, but try and aim for 90+ if you've got access to hunters. Mdef - not important; but you can add a max roll here if you've got nowhere better to put it Rdef - not important; but I usually take max rolls here till I get to 12-15. Perks: Student, Fortified Mind OR Gifted, Relentless, Crossbow Mastery, Footwork, Nimble, Overwhelm, Fearsome, Crippling Strikes, Executioner. Gear is handgonne, armour attachment is hyena pelt or bone plate if you have unusually good init. If playing gladiators or lone wolf you may want to keep a crossbow in the inventory to swap out with the gun in fights where guns are bad - unholds for eg. In 12 man companies I keep my gunner in the middle of the back line. In 16 man companies where I have 2 of them I keep them either on each end of the back line or one in from the end depending on the risk of being surrounded in a given fight. In a perfect world you'll find a hunter with 3 stars in resolve, and you'll be able to get all the resolve you need without taking fortified mind. Most of the time you'll have to make a tough call between gifted and fortified mind. 8. Swordlancer. 2 of them in a 12 man company; 3 in a 16 man (when I'm not using my sergeant, the centre of the back line is either a third archer/thrower or a third swordlancer depending on the fight). This is one of the most important roles in the company. Aside from applying fearsome and overwhelm to the enemy front line via AOE, they also do substantial damage and will usually have the some of the highest kill counts of any melee bro in my company. Stat Requirements: HP - 70 to 80 Stamina - 120+ (try and get to 130 if you can, these guys use AOE a lot) resolve - 60+ (if your health is in order feel free to take it further with any good rolls) init - will already be higher than many enemies just because they're wearing light armour, but I still try and take max rolls here when I can matk - I'm happy as long at I get to the mid 80s when playing peasants but getting to 90 is ideal, and I insist on it in gladiator. mdef - not super important but I'll add a max roll here if I have nowhere else to put it rdef - I'll take max rolls up to around 12-15 if I can. Perks: Student, Recover, Backstab, Polearm Mastery, Footwork, Nimble, Beserk, Killing Frenzy, Overwhelm, Fearsome, Executioner. Gear: The Swordlance vs Warscythe Debate. Warscythes are slightly better vs armour; but they don't have enough durability to get you through a fight. One option is to carry both and switch to the Swordlance when the warscythe gets low on durability; but that wastes AP and significantly lowers your initiative making it harder to gain value from overwhelm. Overall; I've tried both ways and I think I prefer just having a swordlance. (obviously the ideal solution is to find a named swordlance or warscythe; but those are rarer than hen's teeth.) Armour attachment is either hyena pelt or bone plating, depending on how you do boosting init and your personal preferences. edit: holy poo poo that was a novel of a post. I started at 4pm, took a break to attend my work Christmas party; and now I've just finished writing it at 2:45am. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Dec 13, 2020 |
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Dec 13, 2020 17:42
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Thanks for the effort! I'll tuck it away into a txt file and give it a whirl in my next campaigns
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Dec 13, 2020 20:03
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 Somehow I find loads of swordlances. What I don't think I've ever found is a good rolled 2H hammer. Can't remember the last time I even saw a named one.
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Dec 15, 2020 18:04
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Are the unique locations randomized between playthroughs on the same seed now? As in, re-rolled every time to decide where they are? It seems to be the case for me but google brings up nothing and I don't see it in the patch notes. I have a few mods installed, but none that should have that effect. 
Guildencrantz fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Dec 15, 2020 |
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Dec 15, 2020 20:04
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| # ? May 23, 2024 03:47 |
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Guildencrantz posted:Are the unique locations randomized between playthroughs on the same seed now? As in, re-rolled every time to decide where they are? It seems to be the case for me but google brings up nothing and I don't see it in the patch notes. I have a few mods installed, but none that should have that effect. Are you playing on different difficulties? I've heard that can change the locations.
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Dec 16, 2020 01:33
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